LE shoot in Aurora,CO

[pmclaine]

Respectfully McLaine,
The voting record proves "certain areas" get the government service they settle for. And the number of bad incidents from those areas is much greater than the numbers in fly over America.

The FOA areas that hold gov accountable and whose citizens are generally independent and self sufficient, have a much higher level of serve in the "protect and serve" sector.

Training is accountable areas is there. And is notable in the reported incidents.

Those areas not accountable are models of failure, cities in receivership, under decree, highest crime levels, gov officials charged with crimes, ad nauseam....

Many of your posts and MCameron's delineate their shortcomings better than I can articulate. You two have nailed the sources of the problems many times on the board.
It is what it is. You and GF are both correct.
Ymmv....

Some areas vote for good governance and you will note that those areas tend to be homogeneous.

Homogeneous has nothing to do with skin color in my statement.

Homogeneous references their financial standing, education, values.

Other places get poor governance and they tend to be areas divided into factions so as to pit one against the other and the politicians are placed based on what they promise to provide "free" yet never provide.

This difference can also be noted amongst individual neighborhoods within a greater individual whole.

Does the Bronx get different police services from the Upper East Side yet both are covered by NYPD?

 

[Veer_G]

Some areas vote for good governance and you will note that those areas tend to be homogeneous.

Homogeneous has nothing to do with skin color in my statement.

Homogeneous references their financial standing, education, values.

Other places get poor governance and they tend to be areas divided into factions so as to pit one against the other and the politicians are placed based on what they promise to provide "free" yet never provide.

This difference can also be noted amongst individual neighborhoods within a greater individual whole.

Does the Bronx get different police services from the Upper East Side?

Just a thought, but the Bronx doesn't have assertive, motivated doormen and private security everywhere, either, at least not until you get to Riverdale and Fieldston.

 

[pmclaine]

Just a thought, but the Bronx doesn't have assertive, motivated doormen and private security everywhere, either, at least not until you get to Riverdale and Fieldston.

Financial standing, education, values.

Who needs the police services more, yet who gets them.

You could also consider who pays for them and perhaps in that light some are getting what they pay for.

 

[j-huskey]

Homogeneous has nothing to do with skin color in my statement.
Homogeneous references their financial standing, education, values.





Does the Bronx get different police services from the Upper East Side yet both are covered by NYPD?

We agree on homogeneous.

However, bronx vs upper east side is another story....

Areas of a city the size of ny and as diverse as ny get their levels of service based on "calls for service" trends, ability to meet those calls based on assets, and ward/district politics.

Assignment of assets to an area is a topic we have not really touched on.

However, there is a correlation in the level of service received and how that service provided is received.
The more civil the response, the better the service in part because of "the partnership" between provider and served.
The more hostile the response, generally receives less service, because there is no partnership.

There is a dynamic btw bronx vs upper east, not generally discussed on internet boards in a rational manner when it comes to these topics.

But, approached with an open mind, solutions are available.

 

[Veer_G]

Financial standing, education, values.

Who needs the police services more, yet who gets them.

You could also consider who pays for them and perhaps in that light some are getting what they pay for.

Let's agree that the native cave-dwellers in silk-stocking districts don't tend to overtax police services through their own actions. They attract "tourists" who do.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Let's agree that the native cave-dwellers in silk-stocking districts don't tend to overtax police services through their own actions. They attract "tourists" who do.

We could also agree that perhaps they also are more likely to have been contributors to the politicians political campaigns as well as being able to afford better lawyers than the city can. So the politicians who in the end control the police department like to make sure that they stay elected.

 

[j-huskey]

We could also agree that perhaps they also are more likely to have been contributors to the politicians political campaigns as well as being able to afford better lawyers than the city can. So the politicians who in the end control the police department like to make sure that they stay elected.

Respectfully disagree, given the size on ny, the number of wards, burroughs, and districts, the silk stocking district's contributions are negligible in total to the politics of who in the end control the police.
Their control end is geared way more to keeping the lid on extreme violent crime, or corralling it to certain areas that dont affect commerce as much, because economic impact overall keeps money flowing to politicians of all districts, not just the silk stocking district.

Jmhe

 

[W54/XM-388]

Respectfully disagree, given the size on ny, the number of wards, burroughs, and districts, the silk stocking district's contributions are negligible in total to the politics of who in the end control the police.
Their control end is geared way more to keeping the lid on extreme violent crime, or corralling it to certain areas that dont affect commerce as much, because economic impact overall keeps money flowing to politicians of all districts, not just the silk stocking district.
Jmhe

Given that I don't live there and never plan to, I'll defer to your more specific knowledge of the situation at hand.
Thank you for the clarifying explanation.

 

[Foul Mike]

Chill out you assholes.
I am the OP on this one and I did not intend this thread to go to all of these other shootings, but it did. There is more than enough blame to go around for everyone in all of the threads above, some good and some bad.

This thread is about a shooting in Aurora, Colorado, not other places but training and the Right mindset to be a LEO is DAMNED sure in there.
I strongly feel for the "Older" LEOs that have the right mindset and have given their best to train the young ones coming on only to be told to stick it when they tell the Higher Ups that a person is NOT suited for the job. I have seen it with my own eyes when I worked out of the same office as the LEOS did and had many good friends on the force. None of the outcomes were pretty and the Higher Ups would have been wise to listen to the Old Troopers. I also know it will never return to those standards and understand early retirements because the Old Fucks can't stand it and get out where NOBODY wins.
I KNOW the same standards that were in place for them when they hired on are not the same for the new ones coming on and what would have drummed them out before only gets a passing glance now. It is Sad, but now they are forced to put troopers out on the road that really should not be there but they need to fill the ranks. Very frustrating for all.

Today the Aurora PD is going to have a News report at 15:00 and I hope they are truthful and forthcoming and we get a few FACTS.
Facts are the most important thing here and I don't know how it went down as I was not there so who am I to Judge?. I will have to take what they say into consideration and go from there.
Do I think they will be covering their Asses? Oh hell yes. Would you not?
In the past, Aurora PD has not released body cam footage according to the Local News. Maybe this one will be different but I doubt it.

 

[timesublime]

In the past, Aurora PD has not released body cam footage according to the Local News.

Yeah, I try and avoid Saudi (Aurora) if possible.

 

[Foul Mike]

They had a News release a few hours ago and didn't say a lot other than both the Family and the DA don't want to release body cam footage nor dispatch tapes yet. I had to Google it.
It is a horrible shit sammich all the way around for all involved and a rather weird case.
It did come out that the Officers involved did holler "Drop the gun" 5 times in about 10 seconds but never did holler anything about Police and the man inside the house had a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other and shined his light towards the door and moved in that direction when the Cop fired 4 times and the man went down. Several people were in the mans house from a party the perp came from across the street trying to get him under control and the perp had torn the heavy door off when he came in about 01:30. As I understand it the Officer fired from the porch into the house, not from inside.
I wish I could link the thing but can't, I did try. It is rather long and disturbing.
My heart really goes out to ALL involved as it seems that anything that could go wrong did.
The Officer that shot is understandably disturbed and has a hella load to carry for the rest of his life. He had shot and killed someone else about a month earlier.
Google the story if you want to hear what was said and what wasn't said. Very sad.
I hope a lot more facts come out in days to come but it sure as hell isn't good all the way around.

 

[Foul Mike]

There are numbered lists of gun safety rules that go on and on that you are always thinking of or should be, and ALWAYS one of the top ones is ID YOUR TARGET before you shoot.
I talked to my Son, a LEO, and after a while and hearing all about confusion and yell out "GUN" and Put the GUN DOWN,-- then shoot--
He then gave me a question that intruded on my sleep last night.
"Well, what would you have done?"
Not being a LEO, but an OLD Grunt, who did his share of Breaking and Entering, as others on the Hide have, my response was,
"Go low and Identify the Target before shooting." Then my Son told me about training and the LACK there of.
Target Identification is the one here!! and lack of training as well as someone quick to shoot.
This thing is one of the most tragic things I can remember and my heart and prayers go out for the shooter as well as the dead as I know what the shooter has to live with.
FM E Co 5/7 Cav 1st. Cavalry Div. RVN 69/70 Where I learned a lot of what I base my answer on.