IOR
Delta Stryker HD 4,5-30
Rifle Scopes LEO sniper in need of new glass.
- Thread starter rm212
- Start date
IOR
Delta Stryker HD 4,5-30
Not sure if your department would go for it but look at the Sig Sauer Rangefinder/Scope combos. I have their Sierra3BDX 6.5-20x52 mm. It is linked to their Kilo 2400BDX rangefinder. This can also be linked to a Kestrel 5700 Elite Link weather and wind meter.
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can I come and watch???
Truthfully, $450 gets him a KRG Bravo. That's more functionality than anything Manners or McMillan for a fraction of the cost.
Recommend you get a copy of the "Ultimate Sniper" read and reread. Good description of the type of shooting you will be doing. Then select your scope based on criteria that you deem important. Keep good records.
Are you fully trianed in Mil's? If not stick with a MOA/MOA scope. I'm an rifle instructor for a Colorado Mountain PD. I make my people shoot out to 750 yds. some have fixed 10 power scopes. I have the NF 3.5 X 15-50 with a MOAR recticle. We all shoot MOA/MOA scopes . Send your Bushnell in for service. They'll fix it or get you a new scope. Are you shooting the Hogue Stock on that rifle? Replace it! Have seen the stock cause problems of holding groups.
The Bell & Carlson Remington Competition/Tactical stock, Has an aluminum bedding block, Adj cheek piece. Torque screws to 60 in/lbs. You can also order the stock inletted for M5 bottom metal. Or get yourself a good chassis stock. McCree, MPA, MDT find what fits you.
The Bell & Carlson Remington Competition/Tactical stock, Has an aluminum bedding block, Adj cheek piece. Torque screws to 60 in/lbs. You can also order the stock inletted for M5 bottom metal. Or get yourself a good chassis stock. McCree, MPA, MDT find what fits you.
Seriously, you might be shooting a human and you might have to go to court to defend that decision. Right or wrong, if it was my responsibility and my agency wouldn’t pony up, I’d pay out of pocket. Shit when I flew air ambulance, I’d carry my own 800$+ iPad with my personal Jepp subscription, a 1200$ Boss headset and 500$ non polarized sunglasses. Sure I could have used to paper charts, the shitty company provided non ANR headset and a 20$ amazon polarized sunglasses but I wouldn’t see my instrument as well in some angles, I wouldn’t be able to hear as good and having georeferenced approach charts is a huge increase in SA.
Bottom line, if this is your career, right or wrong, don’t go out there to potentially kill someone with shit equipment that you don’t trust, and that includes the shitty hogue sps stock.
Bottom line, if this is your career, right or wrong, don’t go out there to potentially kill someone with shit equipment that you don’t trust, and that includes the shitty hogue sps stock.
“Rings/Mounting system: This is often the weak link in the chain. I have seen ton's of excellent optics fail due to poor mounting components or incorrectly installed mounting components. DON'T SKIMP ON RINGS and/or BASE.“
^^^This^^^
I fell with cheaper sporting rings and base. Rifle was off a foot. Upgraded and never had another issue. If you carry it enough, you will fall. Put it in your budget up front.
Once you have your scope shopping list narrowed down, consider contacting your local 100 Club and/or Lions Club or other local supporters. Donation or matching funds. Rural area, ours absolutely loved buying hot shot special interest items. An hour or two on the range with a couple of club members showing them what you do and what you are trying to accomplish may gain you a champion who will battle for you in the money arena. Small and Rural, gotta do what you gotta do to get equipment. Remember ammo in your yearly budget.
^^^This^^^
I fell with cheaper sporting rings and base. Rifle was off a foot. Upgraded and never had another issue. If you carry it enough, you will fall. Put it in your budget up front.
Once you have your scope shopping list narrowed down, consider contacting your local 100 Club and/or Lions Club or other local supporters. Donation or matching funds. Rural area, ours absolutely loved buying hot shot special interest items. An hour or two on the range with a couple of club members showing them what you do and what you are trying to accomplish may gain you a champion who will battle for you in the money arena. Small and Rural, gotta do what you gotta do to get equipment. Remember ammo in your yearly budget.
I have one of those aac rem 700 with the hogue stocks. If you load the bipod it will touch .
Unless you modify that stock you can not shoot it off a bipod.
I actually like the soft stock because it was quite, didn't
clang on contact.
I replaced the stock but retained the soft hogue stock to see if I can salvage it with mods.
Unless you modify that stock you can not shoot it off a bipod.
I actually like the soft stock because it was quite, didn't
clang on contact.
I replaced the stock but retained the soft hogue stock to see if I can salvage it with mods.
I agree a 6-24 is not suitable to the OP’s requirements and I agree with Terry Cross’ initial points and comments and I yield to his experience and knowledge however, I will speak to the first vs second FP debate for LE purposes.
I believe the reticle has more to do with it then the FP. A simple mil/hash reticle with heavy post such as that which is offered by S&B in the 3-12x50 pm ii or by Leupold as an option in the 3-18 MK 5 is an excellent choice in FFP for three simple reasons. First in the lowest power setting the reticle is nothing more than a heavy duplex which then expands into a milling reticle as power is increased. Second the glass in these scopes is excellent and the OP’s primary assignment will be observation (get the best glass you can afford). Finally, in the event the OP does have to mil or lead a target he has the ability to do so.
I do not think first or second FP really matters that much either way but having an FFP scope does not hurt if the correct reticle, power range and glass are there. For the OP’s intended purpose a fix 6 with a milling reticle would most likely be about perfect, something like a Super Sniper 6x42 which would make the bean counters happy and in which case FP does even matter. My S&B pmii stays most of the time on 6x, with a 308 that allows me to make shots out to 750 yards with few issues.
Our local LE is responsible to aid another agency in the event of another 9/11 with each DM covering 600 yards of open water. Non of our three shooters run scopes with higher than 18 power and all of them can go as low as 2.5-3 power. Something in a 2.5 or 3 to 20 or a fixed 6 or 10 power with a standard mil reticle and good glass will do the trick. FFP or SFP in my opinion doesn’t make that big of a difference if the reticle is correct. Being able to dial isn’t that big of an issue either but having it does not hurt.
Again, buy the best glass you can afford and skip on the features if you must. My recommendations, after I have had time to real think about it and based on all that has been discussed, would be going in preferred order and descending price, either the Leupold MK 5 3-18, Leupold MK 4 fixed power or 3-10, Athlon Midas 2.5-15, or an SS 6x42 or 10x42. All of these based on LE discounts will serve the OPs purpose.
If you can convince the bean counters to do it or get outside help you can not go wrong with the 3-12 pmii.
I would also recommend calling both Luepold and Athlon and talking with them about your specific needs. They are both easy to work with especially the guys at Athlon. I really like them. Just my thoughts and opinion.
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Hi,
You guys get the "Tunnel" call out??
Being between Stennis and Hubert; that open water would not be where anyone wanted to attempt to mess shit up at.
Sincerely,
Theis
Y’all need to have a look at the SWFA SS HD line. They aren’t expensive, their optical quality is very good, mechanically they are very solid. If your department is on a shoestring budget they are ideal. Nothing wrong with fixed power scopes in that line of duty.
Want the best of both worlds?!? Dual Focal-Plane = Quigley. Ford. </mic-drop>
*this is a joke. Please don't.
*this is a joke. Please don't.
Yea, but fundamentals haven't changed much. It is a good read anyway. The recommendation is for the op to figure out what his requirements are. Not only should he read the book, he should be visiting much larger departments and asking them questions.
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Hi,
On the front face it can be funny but in reality it is sad......
Sad that guys with absolutely zero knowledge on something feel as if they have legitimate replies.
Sad that guys with the DIRECT knowledge of the entire OP question spectrum get drown out because they literally get tired of dealing with stupid shit suggestions and rebuttals.
Sad that the constant zero knowledge guys make forums almost intolerable to the guys we want giving operational equipment advice and usage technics.
This thread is the perfect example to highlight the differences of:
Knowledge by application vs Knowledge by assumption
Sincerely,
Theis
Hopefully the OP realized four pages ago who was who in this thread and just chuckled over the rest of the posts. One can hope.
It is actually covering the dams along the Tennessee River water way. 3 DMs covering up to 600 yards each. I am not on the team.
I was invited a few years back to be a reserve and train with them because of my work with local LE and my LR competition experience. A couple of our local LE who where on the team and I use to talk equipment and shooting a lot. Shooting from and over water at movable targets that are shooting back is no joke. My hats off to those guys with that repeatable skill set.
Just because you can hit an moa silhouette at 1200+ cold bore or a deer at 600 that does not translate into hitting a man at 600 from open water, particularly in a high stress environment. I have never had a deer or a silhouette shoot back, nor where others lives on the line. It is just not the same.
I am grateful to all our service members and LE who keep this country free and safe. It is always my pleasure to offer help to them or advice whenever they need it.
@rm212
As @THEIS alluded to on page 1, search the private LEO thread and educate yourself on the many considerations before you make your purchase. I think @Terry Cross and @Skunk advice fits the requirements for 90+ percent of Domestic LEO snipers. If your in the other 10, then you are likely already outfitted with what you need and know why you need it.
It has been mentioned and I don't mean to be a killjoy, but if your agency is serious about wanting this capability, they need understand that it costs money to be capable and there are risks associated with it. That conversation trumps the SFP vs FFP issue.
As @THEIS alluded to on page 1, search the private LEO thread and educate yourself on the many considerations before you make your purchase. I think @Terry Cross and @Skunk advice fits the requirements for 90+ percent of Domestic LEO snipers. If your in the other 10, then you are likely already outfitted with what you need and know why you need it.
It has been mentioned and I don't mean to be a killjoy, but if your agency is serious about wanting this capability, they need understand that it costs money to be capable and there are risks associated with it. That conversation trumps the SFP vs FFP issue.
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Let me say that seeking information from folks on this site and others is a good thing. It really would be difficult to find fault with gathering all the input you can gather to help you make choices in your rifle scope selections. As pointed out there are some knowledgeable people on the site.
My back ground is 31 years with LASD at SEB for 11 1/2 years. Contact me because I can talk faster than type and there is a lot to discuss.
Touche. I forgot about that cause my bravo is at the smith will all my other parts
Police officers have to purchase their own gear?
Do they buy their own uniforms as well?
Is this a common occurrence in US police forces?
Do they buy their own uniforms as well?
Is this a common occurrence in US police forces?
Wow.
Hope you can claim it as work expenses.
Hope you can claim it as work expenses.
I am a big Leupold fan and would recommend them. However the Burris and Vortex have come with GREAT prices and optics for the price. I am NOT a fan of EOTech but that is personal.
Not to derail this subject but I can tell you a lot of gear used by our military troops especially in spec ops is bought with their own money also.Wow.
Hope you can claim it as work expenses.
I carried a 4x ACOG in combat and never thought twice about this stuff. The reticle was always exactly the same when I needed it.
Quick question, if you don't mind, I put a 1-10 Razor HD FFP, and wondered if you thought a red dot at low mag makes up for the lack of a SFP cross hair? I don't think the pic can do the red dot brightness on this optic credit, but it's clear, bright, and easy to pick up reflexively in bright sunlight. I have never needed to put it on its brightest setting. I'm not suggesting this would be the appropriate scope for the OP, given its cost, but just wanted to facilitate the discussion in reference to your thoughts to alternatives to SFP. Is this a best of both worlds solution, or just not appropriate to the task?
I can say that I loved my ACOG, but wouldn't hesitate to carry this one if I were ever down range again.
I worked for one department that basically paid for my badge and a couple of uniforms. Everything else was on me. The second department I worked for furnished everything and made sure we were kitted out in the best available stuff including my snipers rifle. It was a great change from the previous department.
A lot of it comes down to population and the type of Dept you work for. City departments get money from tax $$. Where sheriff departments by us are only required to run the jail and courthouse and any road patrol is run off a milage. Which comes to a vote every few years for the residents of that county. So any raises or new purchases are dependent on the people you serve voting for it. Luckily we have great support here. It also keeps the local LE from overstepping boundaries like the 2A. Because they know if they show any support for gun control it will be the end of their road patrol
The nightforce lit center reticle produces the result you describe. Less expensive firedot leupolds do the same. The leupold firedot is not the same tough as NF, but, I've been surprised by their holding zero on loaner pig guns. They get beat up pretty bad, and are still ticking.
One not to be named 3/75 gentleman carried a firedot leupold in Afg.
So, what you ask, can be an option.
Would depend too, on the level of skill, training, and maturity of the OP knowing he has to be a bit more careful of an optic that is thought less robust. There are a few people with a level of focus that can protect less robust equipment and keep it alive a long time.
We have to do this with lower dollar thermal sights, it can be done..
And, depending on the schools LE Snipers go to, the curriculum can destroy a less robust scope...
Personally I dont see a need for seal hell week sniper schools for LE, but, some people think if it's not that tough, it's not real.
My first Sniper School was a Division School put on by AMU on Benning, b4 big army created "the Sniper School"... they didnt do hellweek. 30 years later, LE sniper schools started into such, to now, some LE Sniper Schools resemble a PRS match... fuuuuuck that.
No beginner sniper should be put through that until they have a year or so of quality professional training that ingrains slow is smooth, smooth is fast... jmho. In those schools, new snipers are less than likely to break less robust equipment, and can find failure points with a bit less trauma to the student.
A lot of what I think isn't in vogue today, bc the market drives the end result.
I know crawl, walk, run... that's how I teach. Not full blast run on day 1.
Like @Terry Cross , I have seen a lot of broken equipment in "run" courses. Very few broken parts on crawl/walk.
vr
jw
Significant difference in my "xxx" was I got to interview several candidates b4 the dept hired them. Taught a few to shoot b4 the dept hired them.
Then I got to interview them b4 they got voted on the team, by the team.
Then I got to interview them again for the Sniper position, b4 they got voted on the sniper team. And the ranking staff also approved based on total officer performance.
Then a year of training b4 they were operational on the rifle. They went as an observer until that year was up.
If they passed all that, good, if not, back to knuckle dragging.
And, I owned their ass, had a big influence on their paycheck. They were under a benevolent dictator...
We had snipers w 20 years on the rifle who could, would, and did stay in the top 5 in LE sniper comps most of their careers.
That difference in "xxx" allowed me a latitude very few have. At one point, I trained 12 departments' snipers, until promoted up, and no longer could arrange all the depts for the same slots. Although retired now, I still do the three depts that make up our joint team.
Few trainers have that. Those who train for pay, definitely do not. That's the gig they took on to train others and they dont get better than @Terry Cross ....
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Welcome to every public social space in the modern world.
It's impossible to share real experience without the dogpile of idiots.
Sounds like you have a Bushnell scope I have sent there scopes back to them and they say they have fixed but have not. Any gun deals I get that has a Bushnell scope on it I take of the rifle and take a sledgehammer to box up and send back to the company. They are junk. I have had great luck with mark 4 and 5 leapold and nightforce why buy two or three time with problems
scope is out to Bushnell now for repair so when it comes back or we replace it i will hit you and Terry up.
oh trust, me i did.
My advise would be to contact your county sheriffs department, state police and any neighboring large city agency's and get their input on what scopes they use or what they recommend for your budget. Do it on department letterhead or via agency email so you have something credible to present to your police chief or town board, especially if the recommendations exceed their budget. That's going to hold a lot more weight than saying you got advise from the internet...
I built my rifle back in the 90's and learned a few things that don't get mentioned much: Get your rings lapped so your $1K scope is not bent! This is not a 5 minute job. At the time I was looking to swap back and forth from daytime scope to NVD and not lose my zero. That meant I'd need a steel rail to take the recoil impulse with an NVD on a .308. It turned out hardened steel rails were machined while soft and then heat treated leading to warp, twist and bow in the rail in the range of .002" to .005", often in more then one axis! But customers are not expected to notice, even LEOs. This means even the best rings are off true even more when mounted on a warped rail and your scope gets bent when tightened into your premo rings. Anyway, I got an extended rail made from D2 steel, TIR dialed in under 3/10ths of a thou in 3 planes over 7" then mounted Leupold QRW steel rings and lapped out .0016" before mounting the scope. Do you need to go that far? Maybe not, but mounts and rings are never as good as claimed. Take your current scope off, does it have ring bite marks? How about any other scopes you've ever had? Scopes that are being bent by rings and mounts won't hold groups for long. Good luck!
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