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Sidearms & Scatterguns Let's Have A Caliber War!

sprice

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 19, 2011
73
0
30
Utah
I've been through a lot of semi-auto handguns, just trying to figure out what I like. I started out with 1911's, tried a DE Jericho/941 in .40, an XD, Another 1911, a few random 9's, a glock .40. And now I only have Glock 9mm's (I especially like the 19). I've taken most of these to classes and that's how I've figured out what works for me.

Anyway, some guys always make fun of my 9's and say things like "anything that doesn't start with a 4 and end with a 5 lacks enough power"; and shouldn't even be considered, unless it's for a woman! So I just wanted to start up a discussion with you on your chosen handgun caliber(s), and what you like/dislike about them and others.

I would like to start by saying the .40 or 10mm is my favorite handgun cartridge; but they're to expensive for me. Glocks are mostly 9's and the 9's tend to have the least problems and more aftermarket parts (also, I chose glock because everyone has one, they're good guns, and they're cheap(er) and easy to work on). I can afford to practice with 9mm, and I shoot it better; since I believe shot placement is key, and I like to shoot, I like 9 for these reasons.

I think a 9 with good hollow points performs about as well as a .45acp with hollow points (at least according to the fbi gelatin tests I've seen, but I would still give a slight edge to the .45). If we're comparing fmj though, of course .45 wins hands down. Since every handgun is underpowered, I'd prefer to practice with cheaper ammo anyway. Extra capacity is also a plus, but it's not a make or break factor for me.

I also think that John browning himself would prefer a 9 (LOL I know, it sounds blasphemous!) considering most of his pistols and cartridge designs were small caliber (.25 ACP, .32 ACP, .38 ACP, 9mm Browning Long,.380 ACP), and that the early prototypes of the 1911 were designed for a smaller cartridge. Once again, I have formed these opinions because I can afford to practice with the 9, and I shoot it slightly better.

So what do you all think?
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

pretty much like you. i'm a fan of 9mm

fun to shoot, cheap to shoot and effective when shot placement is done properly.

but my fav round to shoot is the .45... I like the bigger holes.

I must say im starting to really like shooting my FN five seven though. now that's a blast to shoot.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

hey taseal, want to expand on the 5.7? I've always wanted to try one and I'm a HUGE fan of the game splinter cell- but I just don't have the money for one, and it wouldn't be a practical fit in my humble arsenal.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I love my Glock 21 and i carry it, but it is expensive to feed. I'll probably get a G17 in the not so distant future.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">want to expand on the 5.7? I've always wanted to try one and I'm a HUGE fan of the game splinter cell- but I just don't have the money for one,</div></div>

ive shot a plasma rifle on HALO, anyone have any experience with one?
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">want to expand on the 5.7? I've always wanted to try one and I'm a HUGE fan of the game splinter cell- but I just don't have the money for one,</div></div>

ive shot a plasma rifle on HALO, anyone have any experience with one? </div></div>

http://www.xtranormal.com/

Go on, Veej, you <span style="font-style: italic">know</span> you want to ...
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sprice</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey taseal, want to expand on the 5.7? I've always wanted to try one and I'm a HUGE fan of the game splinter cell- but I just don't have the money for one, and it wouldn't be a practical fit in my humble arsenal. </div></div>

fun round. wounding is similar to 5.56.

very little recoil and it's meant to tumble around. VERY fast round, little drop at distance. accurate enough.

high capacity magazine on the pistol (and rifle) at 20 (or 30) rounds.

if you are a believer in shot placement, 5.7x28 might do the job. it has enough penetration with the v-max rounds, and good tumbling characteristics with the ligther rounds.

this will start a huge debate, so you will need to do your own research
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

This is old news, but have you heard of the Thompson-LaGarde Tests??? I find them interesting.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

nope, never heard of the Thompson-LaGarde Tests- I'll find out right now! Thanks for that Whitecliffs.

All right I just read it. It sounds like they were using FMJ and like I said, of course .45acp will win that game.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

A small fast round will never equal a slow heavy bullet in realistic applications. It is all about energy and shot placement. Nothing can replace poor shot placement. I will often carry a small back up piece in 22lr, because it is better than nothing. Is 22 my first choice when going into a fight, hell no! Would I hesitate to use it if it was all I had, no, it might get me a real gun.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

Yeah I also agree with that Azprc, I think you should have whatever you're good with and can afford to practice with; because anything is better than nothing. I would totally have a .45/10/.40 if I didn't have to pay for ammo
smile.gif
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

Handguns are, well, handguns. Viewed as a group, there's not a TREMENDOUS difference in performance in the range of cartridges from 9mm to .45 ACP. Even so, I find the nice big hole resulting from the .45 to be comforting. Still, I don't feel under-gunned when I'm carrying a 9mm, .40, or even my favorite 2" .38 Special.

HRF
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

+1

All handguns suck at killing people in relation to shotguns and rifles.

Dont go buy a 45 and think you have a death ray. I can find many reports of people being shot multiple times with 45 acp and still living. Shoot until the threat is gone. This is why I choose a high capacity firearm.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I carry a Glock 17 or 19 sometimes i will carry my G-34.

I like the 9mm, remember bullet placement is key with any handgun round .
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I like the 9 for one main reason. The main one being you can typically carry more ammo. I think it is really a no brainer. I'd rather have more ammo that can still deliver plenty enough energy to do the job. The bottom line is if you hit someone in the "computer" the "pump" or the "connecting lines" your still gonna put their lights out. It really doesn't matter how big the hole is.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiteCliffsOfDover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is old news, but have you heard of the Thompson-LaGarde Tests??? I find them interesting.

</div></div>I hardly consider thoses "tests" interesting, much less scientific.

The Thompson-LaGarde tests are the 1904 equivalent of some guy on youtube shooting wet phone books.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiteCliffsOfDover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is old news, but have you heard of the Thompson-LaGarde Tests??? I find them interesting.

</div></div>I hardly consider thoses "tests" interesting, much less scientific.

The Thompson-LaGarde tests are the 1904 equivalent of some guy on youtube shooting wet phone books. </div></div>


Ok well find something that does interest you, and go read it.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I love the .45 acp, not because of it's stopping power, not because I think it's the best thing ever for defense. I love it because of the way it feels when I shoot it. I love the lazy recoil it produces. I use it for home defense and personal protection because I spend the majority of my range time behind it. Every time I go to the range I always shoot a .45. It's my favorite round to handload as well. I tell people all the time, ( I should use it as my quote) don't buy a gun for home defense or personal protection, buy a gun because you want to shoot it and enjoy shooting, then let it work for you as a defensive tool. Caliber is no different. Fact is, in a real world situation I would rather have as many bullets as a gun could hold and that points to 9mm or 5.7 but I dont spend much time shooting those calibers. I think the .40 s&w is brilliant, all that stopping power and capacity... But I hate, no loathe shooting the .40.

Carry what you shoot, and love the gun (caliber) you shoot.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">good 9mm may expand but a 45 will never shrink </div></div>

Good point of view

I would like to try a 5.7 though it would be a good gun to have for my family to shoot.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

Training is the most important, and if the 9mm allows you to practice more, go with that.

Remember that everything goes to hell with stress. Hits trump misses. Drawing trumps fumbling. Carrying trumps talking. Practice.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I shoot only 9mm and .45 ACP now. I got rid of any handgun that ran any other caliber because I got tired of having a little ammo of each caliber, but not a lot of ammo for any one particular caliber.

I still feel the .45 ACP is going to do a better job, all factors considered, than the 9mm. Its not that I feel "under gunned" with the 9mm strapped on for protection, but lets face the facts. The .45 ACP, with a hot load, will still put more energy on target than the 9mm will with the same hot load. JMHO.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

1911's have adopted me thats all i shoot. Mainly because of the way the gun points when i hold it. I had to adapt to the caliber.
I agree a .45 slug carries alot of energy.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

Hi fellows,
Thought I would weigh in on this one, based on some experience on live targets. [animals]
I am a Reg. Maine Master Guide mostly for bear and moose.
Over the years I have learned to never assume anything when firearms and big critters are involved.
Like most of the Hide members I own from .22 thru .45cal. semi-auto handguns.
I never leave the dooryard [a Maine reference] without my P226 chambered in .357Sig.
I have on several occasions had to dispatch wounded bear from 100# thru 400# and several wounded moose a couple inexcess of 1000#.
From 1-3 shots at very close range right behind the ear and the chase is over, never an incident I would call inhuman.
Doesn't really matter how we got to the point of the guide finishing the animal off, not enough recycled electrons in this post to describe what did, could go wrong on a big game hunt.
The .357Sig has proven to me and anyone with me it is a caliber that gets the job done, no questions asked.
Thanks, JOE
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Training is the most important, and if the 9mm allows you to practice more, go with that.

Remember that everything goes to hell with stress. Hits trump misses. Drawing trumps fumbling. Carrying trumps talking. Practice. </div></div>

Straight up, that's the best answer so far.
I'll put a plug in for 38/.357. Show me someone who can't shoot a 4" Smith, and I'll show you an idiot.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I have to say 9mm is fun to shoot and cheap to shoot. personally I rely on my HK P2000 .40 and my Glock 21sf .45 but to each is own, but if im out hunting I keep my 7 shot .357 on my side.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

A .45 with 230 grain +P rounds will take care of a lot of business. When you want to actually put a solid thump on something.

A hot loaded 10mm does a pretty good job of punching through stuff.

For hunting however the .44 Mag is a nice round to have with you incase something decides you are on the menu.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .45 with 230 grain +P rounds will take care of a lot of business. When you want to actually put a solid thump on something.

<span style="font-weight: bold">A hot loaded 10mm does a pretty good job of punching through stuff.</span>

For hunting however the .44 Mag is a nice round to have with you incase something decides you are on the menu.

</div></div>

Sorry to break it to you, but the 10mm does more damage on a bad day than the 45 ACP.
smile.gif


My hunting cartridge of choice for up to 50yd. deer in Kentucky hill country ..... a doped out Glock 20 with 6 1/2" barrel.
laugh.gif


One of the reasons the US Marshall service stopped carrying the 10mm and switched to 45 ACP is because of the collateral damage potential and the ballistics of the 10mm. It was too much handgun for human tissue!

The 45 ACP is a fat, slow round. It packs a punch and stops dead in it's tracks with very little pass through potential.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

45 acp stops dead in it's tracks? News to me. Here I thought it had up to 17 inches of penetration in gel.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

If your not carry 500S&W for your Ever Day Carry you are just stupid
eek.gif
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I carried a G23 in 91-97 back when I lived in places that allowed that sort of thing. .40 was hip and cool and people at ranges always said I had the loudest 9mm they had ever heard.
smile.gif


When I started taking lots and lots of handgun classes I switched over to a 1911 in .45 because I liked everything about it. Grip angle, recoil, 'pointability', how the mags come out and go in, how I can press check it, how it fits in my weak hand, how it comes out of the holster, where the safety is, how it only _sorta_ bruises my hand after a few thousand rounds in a weekend, etc. It had character that my G23 pez dispenser never had and I think that's why I took to it.

None of that is particular to the 1911 or .45, but now that I've been shooting the exact same gun almost exclusively for 13 years anything else just feels wrong. I've thought about getting another 1911 in 9mm just to cut down on the ammo costs but they "shoot funny", and none of them are _my_ 1911. I don't want another gun, I want what I have and I just have to pay extra for it.

OK, it looks like I have no real point other than to say it sounds like you too have found what you like in a caliber you like, so forget what anyone else things and just go shoot the shit out of it. If you do find yourself using your 9mm to defend you life just hit the guy a few extra times; you've got lots of rounds and because it's cheaper you've practiced enough to make those hits under stress.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

XD .45 is for me. would really like it if Springfield would introduce a subcompact model like the 9mm/.40cal. Called Springfield to see if they are going to produce the .45 subcompact model and was told to call back in a couple of months, can only hope so. I don't need another caliber. I really like the feel of the weapon and the lack of recoil. I rest the grip on my open palm when shooting and was surprised at the accuracy.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .45 with 230 grain +P rounds will take care of a lot of business. When you want to actually put a solid thump on something.

<span style="font-weight: bold">A hot loaded 10mm does a pretty good job of punching through stuff.</span>

For hunting however the .44 Mag is a nice round to have with you incase something decides you are on the menu.

</div></div>

Sorry to break it to you, but the 10mm does more damage on a bad day than the 45 ACP.
smile.gif


My hunting cartridge of choice for up to 50yd. deer in Kentucky hill country ..... a doped out Glock 20 with 6 1/2" barrel.
laugh.gif


One of the reasons the US Marshall service stopped carrying the 10mm and switched to 45 ACP is because of the collateral damage potential and the ballistics of the 10mm. It was too much handgun for human tissue!

The 45 ACP is a fat, slow round. It packs a punch and stops dead in it's tracks with very little pass through potential. </div></div>

Too much handgun for human tissue? Please, if you are going post at least try to sound like you know what you're talking about.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A small fast round will never equal a slow heavy bullet in realistic applications. It is all about energy and shot placement. Nothing can replace poor shot placement. I will often carry a small back up piece in 22lr, because it is better than nothing. Is 22 my first choice when going into a fight, hell no! Would I hesitate to use it if it was all I had, no, it might get me a real gun. </div></div>

This couldn't be further from the truth.

The .357 magnum 125gr jhp is well documented as the best man-stopper ever chambered in a handgun. The perfect combination of speed, fragmentation and penetration.

Eventually revolvers were shelved for semi-autos and the birth of the 9mm era commenced with underachieving results. It just didn't have the velocity and fragmentation that the .357 did.

Moving forward, while fragmentation is desirable in tissue for energy transfer, it does poorly against barriers, hence the bonded bullet.

The .357 Sig came along much to the dismay of the 9mm and .40 fans as they will tell you it tried to fix a problem that didn't exist. Well having seen what it does in soft media compared to other calibers, especially with jhp's, I'm a believer.

I don't have to penetrate barriers so a 125 gr jhp moving at 1500 fps will be devastating should the need ever arise.

That isn't to say Corbon's 200 gr load in 45 acp doesn't have a dog in the fight, it's pretty nasty as well.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

There is no best "Man Stopper". First off you got to hit your target. You have to think about reloads and how comfortable the pistol is to carry, printing and all the rest of that crap. The best caliber to carry is the one you can afford to shoot the most and you feel comfortable using to defend your life.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

As with most everything in life, its a trade off. If the full size 14 rd para staying on the night stand because its to heavy, it isn't going to do you any good. Find something you will have with you when you need it, practice with it, and get some thicker skin for the gun shop talk.

One time I had someone in a gun shop preaching to me about how 9 was nothing and 45 was the only round worth shooting. He told me about a shootout they had a few years ago, cop 1 was shooting a 9 and hitting the BG in the stomach, well BG had a jacket that was full of hard candy that magically stopped the 9. Cop 2 shows up and shots the guy COM with the 45, point of the story SHOT PLACEMENT.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

remember this.....a .380 that you carry, is always better than the 10mm you leave at home.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

Just wanted to add my 2 bits here. My arsenal includes most of the guns listed in most of the posts above and have carried them all at different times. One thing to consider is actual weight and comfort. After a couple of days with a full size 1911 on the belt dragging the pants down, I'm looking in the safe for something a bit more carry friendly. I would rather want to carry something a little smaller than not want to carry something bigger. Besides, the carry pistol is just the stop gap to give you time to get the AR from the car.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

All things aside. What is so cool about the fat and slow 45 that everyone is so in love with? I'm not saying I don't like the 45, I'M saying it not the end all be all.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

Shoot the biggest caliber you can comfortably. Shot placement is key to stopping any threat.
With that being said, my duty gun is .45 and my carry gun is 9mm.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zengineer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is so cool about the fat and slow 45 that everyone is so in love with? I'm not saying I don't like the 45, I'M saying it not the end all be all.
</div></div>

Of course the .45 ACP is not the end all be all. No cartridge is, especially in handguns. If we want to stop a lethal threat, a high power rifle or shotgun at close range is much more reliable than a handgun. But fat and slow projectiles have a good record at being effective. Thousands of bison fell to black powder cartridges lobbing heavy .45 and .50 caliber bullets at what, by today's standards, were fairly low velocities. That's why many still like the .45 ACP -- as mentioned elsewhere on this thread, it produces more of strong push than a sharp jolt, and that fat, slow bullet has worked in many defensive situations.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

When I was in LE it was in Anchorage. We had to put down more moose 'n such then people. (Moose vs Car, moose wins but often has to be put down).

4 inch model 28 with LSWCs worked every time.

I carried my issue Model 28 most of my 20 years, the department gave it to me when I retired. Too big for CCW, but if I was to get invited to a gun fight, and couldn't take a rifle, it would be my first choice.

This guy, after destroying a van, and putting several other cars in the ditch, started after my patrol car. One shot in the neck is all it took with my 150 gr LSWC (Lyman bullet 358477) 14.5 grns of 2400.

IMG_NEW.jpg
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

9 40 45 all work fine on people if you hit them in the right place.

now of if you factor in having to shoot through (most) barriers you can count 45 out.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

300wsm, not to be stinker, but why do you believe a 45 doesn't do well with barriers? Maybe I'm not thinking of the same type of barriers you're referring to, or bullet design? I'm sure a 200g silvertip won't smoke through too many barriers, but isn't that what some people want, with concerns of over penetration? I suppose it's all application based, too many choices.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I don't have much pistol experience. The Corps has given me a few M9's and an M9a1 to shoot, and I personally own a 1911a1 (SA GI45, stock). I've also shot a few wheel guns in .38/.357 and .44 mag. I much prefer the 1911 in .45acp. It's more accurate than the M9 (not the revolvers, though) and feels much better to shoot IMO.

From my limited experience, I would take a .45acp over about anything for a CCW or home defense. I would take the .44 Magnum for walking in the woods around big scary hungry things.
 
Re: Let's Have A Caliber War!

I shot 9mm for years before converting over to 357 Sig. If I didnt have the 357 Sig, id still be shooting the 9mm, i see no valid reason to switch