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Rifle Scopes Magnification is more better?

Don-n-Texas

Don-n-Texas

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Apr 17, 2011
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Houston now in Denton County
#1
Magnification is more better?

Can you see .308 bullet holes at 600 yds with 25x, 32x, 42x, 50x.

Can you see .308 bullet holes at 1000 yds with 25x, 32x, 42x, 50x.

At what Magnification can you see the X ring on a target.

I got a 16x and bad eyes. lol

What Magnification do I need to see bullet holes and x rings at 600 to 1000 yds.


 
#3
Re: Magnification is more better?


For seeing the bullet holes, you're better off using a spotting scope and even then, it will be difficult at the longer distances. Like hk dave said, there is really no magic. Many conditions come into play. That's why some of the ranges use cameras now... for that exact reason... to difficult to see the hits with any magnified optics!

George P.
 
#4
Re: Magnification is more better?

Don,
You can see bullet holes at 600 yd under good conditions with a high quality scope such as a nightforce 12x42.You probably will not see them all as some will be on lines or at other areas where the contrast is not great enough.When the mirage is bad you will not see any of them.I have never been able to see 308 holes at 1000 in paper even with my 8x80 March,though I have not tried it under optimal conditions.When the weather cools down a little,come up to Huntsville on a Sunday morning when we are shooting and you can look through a spectrum of good scopes at 600 yd and see how they perform.PM me if you are interested.
Darrel Martin
 
#8
Re: Magnification is more better?

Don,
The Huntsville range was built by Mike Cockroft largely at his expense.We shoot 400- 600 yd matches and shoot on many if not most Sundays except during these hot days recently.There is a lot of good information about the range and what we do on this website.
http://www.texasbenchrest.com/Home_Page.php
Watch some of the videos listed under media.Unfortunately it is addictive.If you want to come up then contact me and I will bend over backwards to arrange it such that we can get together and shoot.We also have the Wright brothers ,Randy and Greg of Able Ammo in Huntsville.They are building a very nice range and retail outlet for shooting supplies.I hope to see the efforts of guys like Mike,Randy, and Greg recognized for their efforts at promoting the shooting sports.We have had shooters from Puerto Rico to Illinois at our matches. We have fun and believe in Texan hospitality.
 
#9
Re: Magnification is more better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Don-n-Texas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnification is more better?

Can you see .308 bullet holes at 600 yds with 25x, 32x, 42x, 50x.

Can you see .308 bullet holes at 1000 yds with 25x, 32x, 42x, 50x.

At what Magnification can you see the X ring on a target.

I got a 16x and bad eyes. lol

What Magnification do I need to see bullet holes and x rings at 600 to 1000 yds.


</div></div>

Don, where do you shoot and when?
 
#11
Re: Magnification is more better?

Thank you XTR That is a great article. I learned one thing for sure.
I'm going to get a lot of exercise walking down to look at my target.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Don, where do you shoot and when? </div></div>

The American Shooting Center in West Houston

http://www.amshootcenters.com/

It's a great place to shoot.

The pistol range, 50 and 100 yd ranges get crowed. The 200 to 600 yd ranges are not very crowed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">magnification and mirage......two things that do not go well together.... </div></div>

Chiller One thing we have here in Houston is mirage. There are days you can see marage with the naked eye, you don't need a scope to see it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdmartin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don,
The Huntsville range was built by Mike Cockroft largely at his expense.We shoot 400- 600 yd matches and shoot on many if not most Sundays except during these hot days recently.There is a lot of good information about the range and what we do on this website.
http://www.texasbenchrest.com/Home_Page.php
Watch some of the videos listed under media.Unfortunately it is addictive.If you want to come up then contact me and I will bend over backwards to arrange it such that we can get together and shoot.We also have the Wright brothers ,Randy and Greg of Able Ammo in Huntsville.They are building a very nice range and retail outlet for shooting supplies.I hope to see the efforts of guys like Mike,Randy, and Greg recognized for their efforts at promoting the shooting sports.We have had shooters from Puerto Rico to Illinois at our matches. We have fun and believe in Texan hospitality. </div></div>

jd I live in North Houston. A Sunday morning drive to Huntsville is not a problem. You will see me there for sure.

I'm starting a new job and will be traveling. In couple of months it will cool off and the job will settle down. There will be some beautiful fall days to shoot. I can't wait.

Thank you everyone for your input. But I still don't know if I need to get a 25x, 32x,42x or the Sightron 50x.

I'll just stick with my 4-16 Millet for a while longer.

-Don
 
#13
Re: Magnification is more better?

At 100 I can clearly see 308 holes in regular paper with my vortex 6.5-20x50. At 200 on good days I can barely make out holes on regular paper but if I use shoot n see,s I can make them out clearly. I haven't used paper past 200 but I'm guessing by 300-400 it will be hard to see. Like the others said it doesn't always depend on magnification. Here in Phoenix I go shooting once a week whether it's 60 degrees or 115. Last couple months it's been 100-115 and on the really hot days I struggle to see the holes in shoot n see's even. I almost always use 20x bc I like magnification, but last time time or two when it was 115 I dialed back to 14 or even 10. It was so bad that at 20 it was just hurting my eyes trying to ficus in a big blur bc of mirage. Seeing holes in regular paper wasn't even an option at 200.
 
#14
Re: Magnification is more better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Don-n-Texas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you XTR That is a great article. I learned one thing for sure.
I'm going to get a lot of exercise walking down to look at my target.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Don, where do you shoot and when? </div></div>

The American Shooting Center in West Houston

http://www.amshootcenters.com/

It's a great place to shoot.

The pistol range, 50 and 100 yd ranges get crowed. The 200 to 600 yd ranges are not very crowed.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">magnification and mirage......two things that do not go well together.... </div></div>

Chiller One thing we have here in Houston is mirage. There are days you can see marage with the naked eye, you don't need a scope to see it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdmartin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don,
The Huntsville range was built by Mike Cockroft largely at his expense.We shoot 400- 600 yd matches and shoot on many if not most Sundays except during these hot days recently.There is a lot of good information about the range and what we do on this website.
http://www.texasbenchrest.com/Home_Page.php
Watch some of the videos listed under media.Unfortunately it is addictive.If you want to come up then contact me and I will bend over backwards to arrange it such that we can get together and shoot.We also have the Wright brothers ,Randy and Greg of Able Ammo in Huntsville.They are building a very nice range and retail outlet for shooting supplies.I hope to see the efforts of guys like Mike,Randy, and Greg recognized for their efforts at promoting the shooting sports.We have had shooters from Puerto Rico to Illinois at our matches. We have fun and believe in Texan hospitality. </div></div>

jd I live in North Houston. A Sunday morning drive to Huntsville is not a problem. You will see me there for sure.

I'm starting a new job and will be traveling. In couple of months it will cool off and the job will settle down. There will be some beautiful fall days to shoot. I can't wait.

Thank you everyone for your input. But I still don't know if I need to get a 25x, 32x,42x or the Sightron 50x.

I'll just stick with my 4-16 Millet for a while longer.

-Don</div></div>

you don't need high power glass, you need quality glass. Let me know when you want to meet up @ ASC.
 
#15
Re: Magnification is more better?

On a overcast day, with no mirage, I can see bullet holes at 600 yards on a white IDPA target. But in this 100 degree Texas weather, no way. Come out to ASC on Saturday or Sunday mornings and shoot at steel. There are 4 pieces of large steel to shoot at to sight your rifle in. We usually shoot at a 4 and 8" piece of steel though. That doesn't sound that hard to hit, until you actually try.
 
#16
Re: Magnification is more better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Let me know when you want to meet up @ ASC. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a overcast day, with no mirage, I can see bullet holes at 6 Come out to ASC on Saturday or Sunday mornings and shoot at steel. There are 4 pieces of large steel to shoot at to sight your rifle in. We usually shoot at a 4 and 8" piece of steel though. That doesn't sound that hard to hit, until you actually try. </div></div>

I will take both of you up on that. Thank you for the offers.

Bacarrat I'm sure they are not easy to hit. As soon as my new job settles down I'll be more than ready to shoot.
 
#18
Re: Magnification is more better?

I found that more magnification is not better. I like to have a good amount of magnification for target shooting but there is a point where I just can't use it.

I borrowed a 8-32x NF which was nice but at 1k I couldn't turn it up past 22-24x without getting mirage here in hot florida. At 300yds at 32x I still could only make out a group of 6.8 holes but could not see each shot.

Clarity is more important, as others have said, that magnification. I bought a cheap 20x spotting scope to see my shots but found that I could see them better with my 14x leupold. Its not a fair comparison but it illustrates the point. 6x more power and I still couldn't see squat.
 
#19
Re: Magnification is more better?

Higher power magnifies more than the image. It also magnifies any movement and as mentioned, mirage.

Those leather shooting jackets you see at CMP matches and Camp Perry - not a fashion statement. They muffle the effects on the scope from breathing, heart beat, etc.

There is a reason spotting scopes are in tripods - it is a stable platform. A rifle with a bipod is no where near as stable.

Just my experience, but once you get into the 25X and above range, the sight picture is noticeably impacted by things like breathing and heartbeat. For hunting and tactical shooting, more often than not you will be dealing with increased pulse and heavier breathing.

For the bench rest crowd, on a platform where you make minimal contact with the rifle, you might be able to compensate for the effects of your body and wind at higher power. But at some point, even minimal contact is going to be an issue.

You almost need some form of image stabilization at higher power. They have it in binoculars, but I have not seen a usable scope with that feature. It is possible:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060201047.pdf

No idea what it would cost, but I expect that cost is one of the big reasons this is not offered yet.
 
#20
Re: Magnification is more better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">White targets and shoot and see's are your friend for seeing holes. I can see 308s at 200 yds with a 12x scope. </div></div>

Paper plates are cheap. I stick a 1" square target repair paster in the center for an aimpoint. No problem seeing .308 holes @ 200yds with an NXS 3-15

https://www.targetbarn.com/newstore2.asp?CAT=TARGETPASTERS&SubCat=TARGETPASTERS
 
#21
Re: Magnification is more better?

At 300yds I have no problem seeing 308 holes thru a 10x USO unless it is a really hot day and the mirage is wicked. Then it is hard. Talking 70's weather now, no problem.

I got this old Bushnell competitor 20x40mm spotter I use. It isn't much, but at 300 I often see more than guys using 60x or more with lesser glass, such as Barska crap. Magnification isn't everything.
 
#22
Re: Magnification is more better?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdmartin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don,
You can see bullet holes at 600 yd under good conditions with a high quality scope such as a nightforce 12x42.You probably will not see them all as some will be on lines or at other areas where the contrast is not great enough.When the mirage is bad you will not see any of them.I have never been able to see 308 holes at 1000 in paper even with my 8x80 March,though I have not tried it under optimal conditions.When the weather cools down a little,come up to Huntsville on a Sunday morning when we are shooting and you can look through a spectrum of good scopes at 600 yd and see how they perform.PM me if you are interested.
Darrel Martin </div></div>

This pretty much sums up my experience with my 12-42. On a cool morning you can see your holes on thick white paper out to 600. Once you've shot a few it gets harder to tell which is which. It's also hard to get back on target after each shot. But you can shoot alone and get decent feedback which is why I have the scope.
 
#23
Re: Magnification is more better?

It was stated above that a person needs quality glass not higher power glass.

Which brings me to this question:

With a budget of no more than $450 for a scope is a person better off staying away from higher power glass? Due to it probably being dark and/or blurry at the higher power? Is it better to buy a 10x or 12x scope than to get the 16x to 20x in this price category?

A short list of possibilities:

1. The weaver grandslam tactical that LL did a review on: $300
2. SS 10x42 or ss 16x42 $300
3. Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 mil dot - $449 or less
4. Bushnell 3200 elite tactical 3-15x40 can still be had for around $350
5. Weaver Super slam 3-15x50 is on sale at natchez for $369 and was normally over an $800 scope (is this one the no brainer?)

Stick to the lower power scopes? (10x) or will the others be just as good?
 
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