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Rifle Scopes March 5x-40x56mm possible redesign, your opinion needed

J

James A. Kelbly

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 11, 2013
19
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North Lawrence, Ohio
www.kelbly.com
#1
The March 5x-40x56mm FFP mil rad scope has been getting very good reviews in all areas except two and we would like to get your opinion the actual shooters of these type of scopes. So please let us know what you think.

The scope has.05 mil per click value and only 5 mil per revolution. We have been told this is too small of adjustment both click and revolution wise. A number of shooters are suggesting .1 mil per click value and 10 mil per turret revolution.

Please let us know what you would like between these two choices. This scope was designed this way as the thought was with 40x you will reach out longer shots and need more precise click value.

Thank you for your time

Jim
 
#2
The .1 clicks is a must. I bought a 5-40 only to return strictly because of the clicks being .05. I think with 10 mils/turn and .1 clicks you'll have many more sales in the tactical market.

Dustin Morris
 
#3
I dont have one of your March scopes but I do use a FFP Mil/Mil setup.

First the 0.05mil clicks. This isnt F-Class where your shooting at a 1/2 MOA X ring and one click could move you from one side of the X to the other. In this game targets are usually bigger at longer distance and a hit is a hit no matter if you just nick the corner or smack it dead center. So far I havent had any need for finer resolution that 1/10 Mil clicks.

The 5 Mil per rev vs 10 Mil per rev thing is something a lot of people disagree on but personally, as long as the individual clicks themselves arent too close together, I prefer 10 Mil turrets as you can get all the way to 1k in one turn or less with most cartridges generally used in this game.
 
#5
Like others I don't have one of march's scopes but would seriously look at them. 10 mil turrets would be optimal, like scudzuki said you can't get any better than the 3-24 turrets.

If I could do anything to the scope it would be as others said carry over the 3-24 turrets and also I'd add a few more mil based non-floating dot reticles. If I had a wish I'd also make the 3-24 model with this scope body and add the extra reticles as well.
 
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#6
I owned a 3-24 for about a year, I shot it in local matches and large matches in all kinds of conditions. If it wouldn't have been stolen I still would be shooting it. The turrets are great, 10 mil turn, .1mil adjustments, great zero stop and great glass. I only have two slightly negative comments, you give up some light gathering being 42mm, but it is nice and compact. The thickness of the reticle lines are a little heavy on high power. Other than that its and awesome scope. The 5 mil turn is a no, I get lost the way it is with a 10 mil turn, .05mil adjustments no for me also.
 
#9
0.1 mils per click/10mrad as others stated. 0.05 is an F-Class feature. Even at long ranges I've always felt 0.1mils was fine for shooting steel.

Also I'd like to see the windage knob limited in movement. Perhaps it only allows 5-6 mils each direction L/R before hitting a stop. As it is now on the 3-24 at least the windage turn count can be lost by the shooter. I can't think of a time on a tactical course where I've wanted to dial more than 5 mils of windage. The Steiner scopes for instance limit the windage in this way and it's a nice feature because you can never get lost on the turret.
 
#11
Would it be possible to make it shorter? I'm thinking about which scope should replace the HDMR on my DTA Covert and 15" scopes are just too long and big, IMO.

How is the eyebox on it? I have the 3-24 but not the 5-40.
 
#12
.1 Mils and 10 Mils per turn is becoming the standard right now.

Also while i have not used the 5-40x, I have a 3-24x and the reticle is really thick. It could be slimmed down a bit. The solution to using it on lower power is to keep the lines taller so they stand out on lower powers. Also you can start thin in the center and get slightly thicker as you go out to the edges. But again, I have not used it, just felt the 3-24x was too thick. Look at the line thickness of the MSR Reticle for reference.
 
#13
Leaning towards dropping the cash on a 5-40x56 next month after having had a decent demo a few weeks back and seeing how it performs in heavy mirage at 700 metres. At 20 power the reticle was excellent and I did not have need to wind it out to 40. Eye relief and the eye box seemed fine to me. I felt the turrets were brilliant, better than a Steiner 5-25x56 which were fine, but March have really nailed the tactile feel of their turrets IMO. I don't know what goes into producing one of these scopes, but if it's a case of just creating a new turret system to handle .1 clicks, putting it alongside the .05 model will only increase sales as you will have the tactical/F class crowd well covered. The illumination control module could be tweaked to, either to a system like Steiner or a reostat like Kahles for example.
 
#15
Agree with all the posters... .1mil clicks and 10 mil turrets. If you have more than 20mils of adjustment, then a double detent to show which turn you're on. :D
 
#16
buckey said:
There ya have it from the man himself - go with the suggestion!!
Click to expand...

To elaborate a little on why I would prefer 0.1 mrad clicks:
-It gets me on target faster.
-My limited shooting ability makes higher precision clicks unnecessary
-Most importantly, the aiming point is the small 0.05mrad floating dot in the center of the reticle. If I desire an ability to hold to 0.05 mrad precision, all I have to do is dial with 0.1mrad clicks, and then use the 0.05mrad aiming dot to adjust my hold appropriately.

ILya
 
#18
The .05 mil clicks is the only reason I do not own one. There is a 3-24 that will be going on my hunting rifle. I would buy a 5-40 right now if it had the .1 mil clicks.
 
#19
Important factors in my view, for what would be the ultimate scope would be:
- lots of internal elevation
- High magnification
- Really good glass
- Front focal plane
- Fine Reticle


If March could get huge elevation on their high mag models, i would buy one.
 
#20
Have had my 5-40X for over a year and this has been my only complaint since I got it. Great optics, turrets and zero stop! Love my 3-24X. All my scopes are 0.1mil with 10mil turrets and fit all my shooting needs well. Only down side is that that it will cost me more money to trade up. May just leave the 5-40X on my MRAD and continue to use my other scopes on my DTA platforms to avoid turret confusion.
 
#21
0.1 mil adjustment and it would be very high up on my list of next to buy. I went back and forth and decided that I couldn't live with the 0.05 mil setup and went another direction. I am getting ready to build both my wofe and daughter a nice setup so having that option from March would pretty much make the sell for me for their setups and possibly mine. Having the same setup across the board will greatly help with keeping things consistent across the family. :)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
#22
I am seeing some advantage to using .05 on elevation, If only I could wind call to that resolution. The market seems to like .1mil/10 per rev, I would buy either-reticule to me is the tipping point.

and as Lowlight mentioned, making the tall hashes "taller" would be helpful,

cup holders?
 
#23
Having to make two revolutions in what I do takes time and even though it does give you more precise control many do not need it. If you are shooting off a barricade some work t have the ability to hold the gun still enough to see the difference in the 0.05mil adjustment. After seeing the Nf beast in person I really do like the 0.2mil increments and the option to throw the lever for 0.1mil. Maybe something along the lines of 0.1mil and the option to take it to that 0.05mil option would be the best. I can see that increasing the cost a good bit and I have no idea if that's even an option since NF is using it. I don't do patent lookups and have zero brand loyalty. I will always run what meets my needs the best at the most cost effective way. My needs are just expensive needs. :)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
#27
Hallelujah!

First off...Please continue with your 10Y parallax adjustment!!! It sets you apart from all the other high end scope co's except for one model which is S&B's 5-25.

Also please redesign the FML1 reticle so the "gargantuan - humongo " Mil reference numbers are at a location farther out into the FOV so that those of us holding over using the reticle don't have to shoot through a large number superimposed over our target in a common 5-10 mph left to right wind. Please research the christmas tree style reticle design where my suggestion is incorporated. The GAP G2 reticle is a awesome design. Another thought would be to design a Horus type holdover reticle.

And yes...for us tactical and long range field course shooters having 10 mil knobs with .1 mil clicks is simplistic excellence.

I own a March 3-24 and would plan on buying a FX 5-40 with 10 mil knobs/.1 mil clicks if it becomes available.

Oh and BTW, I think there would be a market for a 3-24x50! There are many hunters that would appreciate the larger exit pupal.
 
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#28
I'd like to give a few more pointers: The 10Y parallax is really awesome. I can get a super crisp image at 6 yards, enabling me to do effective dryfire in my living room on scaled down targets. For that reason alone, the March sees alot of use. The parallax knobs on the March I own and the March scopes that my friends own are noticably stiffer than most other scopes.
This is not a problem during spring, summer etc but during freezing temps this actually becomes quite an issue since it is stiffer than most other scopes to begin with.
I'd also like to see the parallax "area" between 100 yards and infinity increase.
 
#29
.05mrad clicks are a big bummer for most of us here...

But, isn't 40x magnification kinda pointless without the finer resolution on the turrets?

Most agree 15x is pretty adequate for "tactical" use, and 25x is plenty for some extreme range. To me it seems the only valid use for 40x is EXTREME range on very very small targets - which makes the .05 clicks seem good.

There again, I'm not going to buy a 40x tactical scope in the first place.
 
#30
40x is nice to have if you need it and to me makes spotting for others easier or just to check my shot placement at a long distance. Visual clarity will usually be better at half power (20x) than that of a scope with a max magnification of 20x with a much larger exit pupil as well. My xrs stays somewhere between 12x and 20x depending on conditions except when I need to do a dot drill or have the time to verify my hits when I'm practicing, then it gets cranked to 30x.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
#31
turbo54 said:
But, isn't 40x magnification kinda pointless without the finer resolution on the turrets?
Click to expand...

A friend has a FX. It's one of the few scopes I've looked through that has enough image quality to make you say to yourself, WOW, and that's on 40x!

Oh and I can think of some stages where I would rather have had 40x.

Especially for identification, one time we were tasked in such a way as to identify 5 mini playing cards 1.5"x 1", and engage them at 100Y within a time limit and a brutal negative penalty for shooting the wrong one. There were about 20 cards on a sheet of paper and it was very hard to make out the figures, more than a few guys got less than 0. I was using a 26x scope and barely made them out.

Then another time I had a USO 3.2-17. During a night shoot I couldn't see my number which was placed under the target.

On another paper stage I couldn't tell were my 6mm holes were hitting at 300Y so I shot a nice group in the friggen hostage.
 
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#32
steve123 said:
On another paper stage I couldn't tell were my 6mm holes were hitting at 300Y so I shot a nice group in the friggen hostage.
Click to expand...

Ha I got a good laugh out of thay last one. I've done the same and shot someone else's target and sure enough it was the best group for that stage and they got credit for it. That wasn't due to not seeing it but rather a communication error on my behalf. At least it was just a "practice match" :)


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
#33
I want to thank everyone for your opinions, this is what we need to build you the scopes you want. Deon has decided to redo the 5x-40x with .1 mil clicks and 10 mil per turret revolution. The 10 yd to infinite will remain and I also will be discussing moving numbers alittle further from center. I will also speak to them on more elevation if it could be doable. The new 5x-40x will be June or later to hit the market. I am sure they will also keep the current turret system with .05 and 5 mil per revolution since it is already avaliable. I will know in one or two weeks about two new scopes Deon is working on now that should be a big hit with Tactical shooters. Thanks again and everyone enjoy the holiday and be safe.

Jim
 
#36
A good friend of mine has been eyeballing the 5-40 for over a year now and the only thing that has stopped him from purchasing at least 1 and probably 2 of them is the 0.05 mil knobs, he wants 10 mil / 0.1 mil turrets to match all his other optics. I'll tell him to plan on spending money mid-2014.

I've been eyeballing a pair of the the 3-24's, one for my .22 and one for my precharged air rifle. March is one of the only scope makers that offers 10Y parallax. The only thing I really didn't care for on the 3-24's that I looked through was the reticle thickness but I also understand the reticle thickness is a byproduct of the 8x mag ratio to maintain visibility at the 3x end of the magnification range. Much like Steve123 said I'd love to see a G2DMR style reticle with finer thickness that the current reticles in the March lineup...
 
Last edited:
#39
Kiba said:
I've been eyeballing a pair of the the 3-24's, one for my .22 and one for my precharged air rifle. March is one of the only scope makers that offers 10Y parallax. The only thing I really didn't care for on the 3-24's that I looked through was the reticle thickness but I also understand the reticle thickness is a byproduct of the 8x mag ratio to maintain visibility at the 3x end of the magnification range. Much like Steve123 said I'd love to see a G2DMR style reticle with finer thickness that the current reticles in the March lineup...
Click to expand...

This with a 50mm objective and the scope has no competition unless March looses their minds and goes Schmidt/Hensoldt pricing on us.
 
#42
For me, It was interesting to see March tac. SFP tube diameter D-34mm. 2.5-27x or 28x/50-52 and
March tac. FFP tube diameter D-34mm. 2-28x52 .



James A. Kelbly said:
The March 5x-40x56mm FFP mil rad scope has been getting very good reviews in all areas except two and we would like to get your opinion the actual shooters of these type of scopes. So please let us know what you think.

The scope has.05 mil per click value and only 5 mil per revolution. We have been told this is too small of adjustment both click and revolution wise. A number of shooters are suggesting .1 mil per click value and 10 mil per turret revolution.

Please let us know what you would like between these two choices. This scope was designed this way as the thought was with 40x you will reach out longer shots and need more precise click value.

Thank you for your time

Jim
Click to expand...
 
#46
I have the March 5-40x56 illuminated in Moa/ Fma-1 and love the reticle and floating dot. Dot is small even on 40x and works great. Scope will focus down close even on 40x.

I think 1/4 clicks instead of 1/8th would be nice sometimes same with the Mil scope but other than that great rig .
 
#49
For folk that dont have several scopes and want to shoot steel n f class/paper
the clicks are fine as is IMHO, if however you want limit market to strictly TAC type shooter then the click value is issue

Only thing i would change would be a MSR type reticle
 
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