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March or S&B - i can't decide...

22lfb

lang für büchse
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 5, 2021
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Hi!

I'm looking into replacing my March 1-10x24 with something with a bit more magnification. The intended use is target shooting (paper) at 100 & 300m and the occasional session on steel at 200 (for which the 10x is just fine). You may say 10x is plenty for that, however i'm used to high magnification optics. The rifle in question is an HK MR223 (16.5" barrel). 95% of the time i'm shooting off a bag or bipod. Weight is not too big of a concern to me.

I've narrowed my choices down to the March-FX "Wide Angle" 4.5-28x52mm and the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PM II.

The March with the new Shuriken turrets is just sexy and maybe more suited to an AR due to it's smaller size, but it's also more expensive than the S&B. Though the S&B seems "oldschool" nowadays. On the other hand it has a reputation of being build like a tank.

Any input? Thoughts? Maybe something else i've overlooked in that price range?
 
Why not the new March 1,5-15x42 FFP?
Seems like a match made in heaven for your needs…

If you want a S&B, then go for a 5-20x50 ultra short.

Anyway, the March you suggested would be my choice, if I had to choose between the two…
 
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I'm in europe. I remember something about export of scopes from the US being difficult...
 
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Why not the new March 1,5-15x42 FFP?
Seems like a match made in heaven for your needs…

If you want a S&B, then go for a 5-20x50 ultra short.

I feel like the 1.5-15 would not give me the desired gain in magnification. And i don't really need/want the low magnification. That's one of the reasons i'm going to get rid of the 1-10x March. It's nice - but it isn't what i want(ed). You'r right with the 5-20 ultra short, this could be another option for me!
 
@221fb

You can find out where to get March scopes in Europe at the March website:

Gary Costello (March Europe) is a top competitor and a heck of a nice guy. He'll take good care of you. Tell him I said hello.

 
I've already bought two March scopes from March Scopes Germany, both "off the shelf". :) A 1-10x24 and 10-60x HM
 
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If you are paying brand new prices, then don't even consider the S&B 5-25x56, go with the March or the excellent ZCO or TT offerings.

That being said, good condition, used P4F versions of the S&B 5-25x56 can be had in the USA for really good prices, I'm not sure what the market in Europe is, but if you can find stuff in the $2500 range, they are a solid option at that price.

The March scope you listed is excellent, but you might also consider the TT 3-15 and the ZCO 4-20

The MR556 is a much heavier than average AR and as such a heavy scope such as the 5-25x56 is not a problem on it. BUT it will be a lot bigger / heavier / bulkier than the 1-10 that you are used to.
 
I've already bought two March scopes from March Scopes Germany, both "off the shelf". :) A 1-10x24 and 10-60x HM
The March-X 10-60X56 HM has been on my F-TR rifle for 3 years now. Excellent scope.
 
Here's the scope in question on my HK 762.

There are quite good reviews/comments on the scope/March scopes by folks like "Glassaholic" and "Koshkin".

I read til I was "blue in the face" about this scope B4 pulling the trigger, and still didn't get a sense of how good it was/is in terms of "fit and finish" and looking thru it, till I first pulled it out of the box, which is probably the same feeling others get about the other top tier scopes, which is the numbers in the reviews kind of "melt away" when U first take the scope out of the box and start handling it.

The March is only about 12.5" long w/o the shade, and is lushly damped, and feels like what it is, a handmade scope. When you contact Mari Morita/March you will get a quick response whatever the issue/question/concern is w/a "personal touch".


Just B4 the March was shipped to me, saw a video of a guy who sent his scope back to March who had March tighten up or whatever they did to the turrets to make them more audible, and I liked the change, so I immediately contacted March about doing the same thing to my scope which was about to ship.

LAST MINUTE CHANGE which they happily did, NO CHARGE, AND they said they'd do it quickly and get the scope to me, since I'd been waiting for the scope.

I think all the top tier scopes are great; March earned my respect because of their gear, and how they treated me, and I'm sure the other folks making top tier scopes are in that same ballpark, but the March fits me like a glove.





Scope-Gun-XVi-CRPSMLBR254-W.jpg
 
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I use my 10-60x HM for Field Target competitions. On an air rifle, though (which weighs about 16 lbs, btw). And I agree with both the "quality feel" and the excellent customer service. Something that's of high value to me. And March seems to respond very well to customer suggestions.

I put the 10-60x March next to the MR - yeah, i think you guys are right. The S&B would be a bit too much scope. Should be roughly the same size. Which is yet another excuse to invest in a third March scope.
 
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Reviewed both these scopes here (along with others)

If utmost IQ is important to you then the Schmidt 5-25 will be the “better” scope after 8x; however, the March is quite a bit shorter and more gas gun friendly and doesn’t give up much. The wide FOV of the March definitely has its benefits.

Talk to @lennyo3034 about how he likes his March 4.5-28 on his competition gas gun.

If I chose a Schmidt for gas gun it’d be the Ultra Shorts and I like the 5-20 better but if you must have 3x the 3-20 is great too. You said you won’t do ZCO so the next best US is the Kahles 3.5-18 and the March 4.5-28 actually has greater FOV at 4.5x than Kahles does at 3.5x while adding 10x at the top, kind of a no brainer there.

True, the March struggles to keep up with the brilliant IQ of the top alpha scopes, but it wasn’t designed to beat them in IQ but in versatility and it does that very well providing greater FOV, shorter (except for US 5-20) and lighter weight. I have the new Shuriken lock version on order and thrilled to get this as they are the best March turrets to date with very distinct clicks with minimal play and innovative locking mechanism.
 
Don't 4get this revue by U



The shorter scope w/the 52mm objective took some hard "shots" and "body blows" from the longer scope w/the 56mm objective but was still standing @ the end of the fight.

UNFORGETTABLE READING; Bcuz reading this contributed greatly to the disappearance of $3,500.00 from my wallet.
 
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Don't 4get this revue by U



The shorter scope w/the 52mm objective took some hard "shots" and "body blows" from the longer scope w/the 56mm objective but was still standing @ the end of the fight.

UNFORGETTABLE READING; Bcuz reading this contributed greatly to the disappearance of $3,500.00 from my wallet.
I have to ask. Did something replace the $3,500 that disappeared from your wallet? :eek: o_O

Inquisitive minds want to know. :)
 
SURE DID!!.....

Now if Glassaholic steered me the wrong way, I would've demanded a six pack of Ichiban to smooth over my remorse.

No worse feeling than when you 1st yank something out of a box which "bums U out", no better feeling than yanking out gear that almost makes U 4get the money.
 
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Thank you for all the input, and a very special thank you to @Glassaholic for those excellent reviews!

And, well - that was quick. I'm not holding it in my hands yet. But... Money has left my bank account, as it just so happend that i found a barely touched March 4.5-28x52 for an incredible price - and even better i know the seller & trust him. We've been on some Field Target competitions together... For FT i actually use my 10-60x Highmaster, it's got incredible ranging capabilities. For those who don't know; you range your targets using the focus/parallax.
 

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Thank you for all the input, and a very special thank you to @Glassaholic for those excellent reviews!

And, well - that was quick. I'm not holding it in my hands yet. But... Money has left my bank account, as it just so happend that i found a barely touched March 4.5-28x52 for an incredible price - and even better i know the seller & trust him. We've been on some Field Target competitions together... For FT i actually use my 10-60x Highmaster, it's got incredible ranging capabilities. For those who don't know; you range your targets using the focus/parallax.
Be sure to report back with your thoughts after you setup the diopter correctly ;)
 
Thank you for all the input, and a very special thank you to @Glassaholic for those excellent reviews!

And, well - that was quick. I'm not holding it in my hands yet. But... Money has left my bank account, as it just so happend that i found a barely touched March 4.5-28x52 for an incredible price - and even better i know the seller & trust him. We've been on some Field Target competitions together... For FT i actually use my 10-60x Highmaster, it's got incredible ranging capabilities. For those who don't know; you range your targets using the focus/parallax.
That's a nice setup. I have a 10-60X56 HM on my F-TR rifle. I also use the large focus wheel, but not for ranging, it's to help with my arthritis and it enhances the granularity of the focus.

Now, if I can make one comment, I notice your lens cap on the objective lens is not locked down flat. I only point this out in light of the huge announcement elsewhere on this forum where some company is now selling similar caps that fold flat, (and may lock down,) for a price. Fold-flat, lockable caps are included with all March scopes.
 
I have been accused of having an expensive addiction... I would agree. The seller shipped it and DHL basically overnighted it. Come weekend I'll take it out to the shooting range...

IMG_20230301_182644_824.jpg

Sorry, I just have to flex the collection. It's not something I can afford that easy, a lot of hard work was done to be able to buy these expensive toys.
 
Reviewed both these scopes here (along with others)

If utmost IQ is important to you then the Schmidt 5-25 will be the “better” scope after 8x; however, the March is quite a bit shorter and more gas gun friendly and doesn’t give up much. The wide FOV of the March definitely has its benefits.

Talk to @lennyo3034 about how he likes his March 4.5-28 on his competition gas gun.

If I chose a Schmidt for gas gun it’d be the Ultra Shorts and I like the 5-20 better but if you must have 3x the 3-20 is great too. You said you won’t do ZCO so the next best US is the Kahles 3.5-18 and the March 4.5-28 actually has greater FOV at 4.5x than Kahles does at 3.5x while adding 10x at the top, kind of a no brainer there.

True, the March struggles to keep up with the brilliant IQ of the top alpha scopes, but it wasn’t designed to beat them in IQ but in versatility and it does that very well providing greater FOV, shorter (except for US 5-20) and lighter weight. I have the new Shuriken lock version on order and thrilled to get this as they are the best March turrets to date with very distinct clicks with minimal play and innovative locking mechanism.
I understand. But I wish the glass quality was upped a little bit to get in with those other top scopes. From what I have read, however, because March often builds scopes in such short packages, there are (presently, at least) inevitable compromises that must be made with IQ. Thanks. Faith7
 
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I understand. But I wish the glass quality was upped a little bit to get in with those other top scopes. From what I have read, however, because March often builds scopes in such short packages, there are (presently, at least) inevitable compromises that must be made with IQ. Thanks. Faith7
It’s kind of their trademark. But they are starting to deviate some as the 4.5-28 is their first FFP to not feature at least an 8x erector. I would like to see March make a full size 5-6x erector FFP scope but I’m not sure it’s worth it for them as there is so much competition in this arena. They are known for being lightweight for their class so maybe something like the Vortex LHT but in a usable mag range, maybe a 30mm 3.3-20x52 that weighs 24oz, similar to their 3-24x52 but without the 8x erector and with decent FOV and much improved IQ over the 3-24.
 
It’s kind of their trademark. But they are starting to deviate some as the 4.5-28 is their first FFP to not feature at least an 8x erector. I would like to see March make a full size 5-6x erector FFP scope but I’m not sure it’s worth it for them as there is so much competition in this arena. They are known for being lightweight for their class so maybe something like the Vortex LHT but in a usable mag range, maybe a 30mm 3.3-20x52 that weighs 24oz, similar to their 3-24x52 but without the 8x erector and with decent FOV and much improved IQ over the 3-24.
Thank you. By the way, thanks also for that great review! You do the heavy lifting and pass along the results. Excellent.
You know way, way more about scopes than I do, but I would like to see March, as you mention, maintain (at least most of) their compact size and light weight and lower the magnification range. Then let's see what they can do with IQ.
Take care. F7
 
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Glass. . . I have two questions, if you do not mind.
One, would you know if the difficulties you experienced with the March 4.5-28 at long distances show up at distances of under 100 or 50 yards? Or, if they do, but less so? I read your article twice, so I hope I didn't miss you addressing this.
Two, are these IQ problems simply inherent to high-magnification ranges, or would the March 1-15x42 avoid some problems due to 15x being its top end? What about the 1-10x24?
(By the way, I may have bought the Razor LHT in 3-15x42 if the parallax was 10 yards. I hear it is a decent scope. It seems 'March-ish' but for the parallax. I do backyard pesting under 50 yards, but I like the nicer scopes, though I have never owned one or looked through one.)
Again, thank you. F7
 
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Here's the scope in question on my HK 762.

There are quite good reviews/comments on the scope/March scopes by folks like "Glassaholic" and "Koshkin".

I read til I was "blue in the face" about this scope B4 pulling the trigger, and still didn't get a sense of how good it was/is in terms of "fit and finish" and looking thru it, till I first pulled it out of the box, which is probably the same feeling others get about the other top tier scopes, which is the numbers in the reviews kind of "melt away" when U first take the scope out of the box and start handling it.

The March is only about 12.5" long w/o the shade, and is lushly damped, and feels like what it is, a handmade scope. When you contact Mari Morita/March you will get a quick response whatever the issue/question/concern is w/a "personal touch".


Just B4 the March was shipped to me, saw a video of a guy who sent his scope back to March who had March tighten up or whatever they did to the turrets to make them more audible, and I liked the change, so I immediately contacted March about doing the same thing to my scope which was about to ship.

LAST MINUTE CHANGE which they happily did, NO CHARGE, AND they said they'd do it quickly and get the scope to me, since I'd been waiting for the scope.

I think all the top tier scopes are great; March earned my respect because of their gear, and how they treated me, and I'm sure the other folks making top tier scopes are in that same ballpark, but the March fits me like a glove.





Scope-Gun-XVi-CRPSMLBR254-W.jpg
How are you liking the glass? Thanks. F7
 
Glass. . . I have two questions, if you do not mind.
One, would you know if the difficulties you experienced with the March 4.5-28 at long distances show up at distances of under 100 or 50 yards? Or, if they do, but less so? I read your article twice, so I hope I didn't miss you addressing this.
Faith, these are difficult to answer because some of it is subjective but some also relates to variables, for example, if you are shooting at 20x at 500 yards, your DOF is going to be pretty forgiving, but keep it at 20x and now go to 50 yards and your DOF is extremely narrow. In general I would say IQ isn't going to "improve" at 50 yards vs. 500 yards; however, atmospheric conditions are going to impede IQ the further your distance, so from that standpoint your closer in perception may be better than your perception at distance. Regarding low light performance, no, I would not say 50 yards is going to be any better vs. 500 yards outside of the atmospheric interference.
Two, are these IQ problems simply inherent to high-magnification ranges, or would the March 1-15x42 avoid some problems due to 15x being its top end? What about the 1-10x24?
Yes and no, it depends on the scope and design intent. The 1.5-15x42 FFP is a very different animal from the 4.5-28x52, we're talking a 10x erector vs. a 6.2x erector, both are "short" designs for their mag range but I would say just off specs alone the 1.5-15 is going to be more finicky at 15x than the 4.5-28 would be for sure. In daylight the 1-10x24 may be more forgiving due to the design and smaller aperture; however, as light levels drop I would say the 1.5-15 is going to have a distinct advantage.
(By the way, I may have bought the Razor LHT in 3-15x42 if the parallax was 10 yards. I hear it is a decent scope. It seems 'March-ish' but for the parallax.
Maybe "Marchish" based on weight but really nothing else. The LHT 3-15 is a SFP design so I kind of ignore those scopes. The LHT 4.5-22x50 is more up my alley and I own one and really like it though the mag range of 4.5-22 puts it in a "not very usable" category for me, if they have made this scope a 3.5-17x50 it would have been much more appealing, even a 4-20, but with its somewhat narrow FOV, 4.5-22 doesn't make it ideal for my type of shooting.
I do backyard pesting under 50 yards, but I like the nicer scopes, though I have never owned one or looked through one.)
Again, thank you. F7
That sounds fun, I used to have 5 acres and had my own 100 yard shooting range, now I live in suburbia and miss being able to shoot whenever I wanted and right out my back door. I would say this, for your type of shooting I think you would be very happy with the March 4.5-28x52, it would serve you well for 50 yards and all sorts of critters, the wide FOV is going to be an extra benefit; however, if most of your shooting will be done in low light hours, then something like a Steiner T6XI 3-18x56 may be more in order here...
 
Faith, these are difficult to answer because some of it is subjective but some also relates to variables, for example, if you are shooting at 20x at 500 yards, your DOF is going to be pretty forgiving, but keep it at 20x and now go to 50 yards and your DOF is extremely narrow. In general I would say IQ isn't going to "improve" at 50 yards vs. 500 yards; however, atmospheric conditions are going to impede IQ the further your distance, so from that standpoint your closer in perception may be better than your perception at distance. Regarding low light performance, no, I would not say 50 yards is going to be any better vs. 500 yards outside of the atmospheric interference.

Yes and no, it depends on the scope and design intent. The 1.5-15x42 FFP is a very different animal from the 4.5-28x52, we're talking a 10x erector vs. a 6.2x erector, both are "short" designs for their mag range but I would say just off specs alone the 1.5-15 is going to be more finicky at 15x than the 4.5-28 would be for sure. In daylight the 1-10x24 may be more forgiving due to the design and smaller aperture; however, as light levels drop I would say the 1.5-15 is going to have a distinct advantage.

Maybe "Marchish" based on weight but really nothing else. The LHT 3-15 is a SFP design so I kind of ignore those scopes. The LHT 4.5-22x50 is more up my alley and I own one and really like it though the mag range of 4.5-22 puts it in a "not very usable" category for me, if they have made this scope a 3.5-17x50 it would have been much more appealing, even a 4-20, but with its somewhat narrow FOV, 4.5-22 doesn't make it ideal for my type of shooting.

That sounds fun, I used to have 5 acres and had my own 100 yard shooting range, now I live in suburbia and miss being able to shoot whenever I wanted and right out my back door. I would say this, for your type of shooting I think you would be very happy with the March 4.5-28x52, it would serve you well for 50 yards and all sorts of critters, the wide FOV is going to be an extra benefit; however, if most of your shooting will be done in low light hours, then something like a Steiner T6XI 3-18x56 may be more in order here...

All of those answers are assisting, Glass. Here's what I got, or what is outstanding in my mind:

Atmospheric conditions are not hitting me at 50 yards so the IQ may appear a bit better than at long or very long range.

So, finickiness aside, how about the IQ of the 1.5-15 vs. the 4.5-28 at any power?

And how might the 1-10x24 be more "forgiving" during the day (which is when I shoot)?

I take your comment about the LHT to mean that March is still superior in all ways but size. Correct? (And I only now realize that the Razor LHT's come in FFP and SFP. I am fine with SFP, by the way.)

Your comments about a desired magnification range for the LHT puzzle a novice shooter like myself. (I am not a kid, though.) To me, while I have been learning lots and lots about scopes in the last year or so, I am a bit baffled by your concern over the difference between a 4.5-22 and a 3.5-17, and so on, though I am sure you know what you're talking about. They seem so close in range to me.

While I began my 'March' quest thinking about the 2.5-25x42/52 or the 3-24x52, or possibly the 1.5-15, some (helpful) online shooters have been saying things about March's lesser IQ in these models compared to top-tier scopes and touting the High Master and Genesis line. (Some high masters have a very tiny FoV [e.g., the 10-60, etc.], and the Genesis is too heavy [and expensive!] for me; but I still may consider a HM model). So, I was beginning to more think about the March 4.5-28, and you moved me there yet a bit more.

Yes, I have two acres, thank God, and I snipe pests from windows. and do some target shooting. I sympathize with your inability to shoot at home due to the location change.

Anything relevant to my modest context you can say about various March scopes, without hating me (!) for taking up your time, will be much appreciated. Again, I am not a competitor, etc., I simply shoot on my property and want to peer through top glass some day.

Thank you very much for your valuable time. F7
 
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Also, Glass,
If the questions I asked would take up too much of your time. I fully understand.
You have already given me valuable input.
Thanks. F7
 
I am a bit baffled by your concern over the difference between a 4.5-22 and a 3.5-17
Small differences in magnification matter more at the low end much more than at the top.

17x vs 22x isn’t that much. But 3.5 vs 4.5 matters. And, depending on each scope’s FOV, then that might even out a little OR the differences might increase.

For example, if at 3.5x scope A has a FOV of 39ft @ 100yds and scope B at 4.5x is at 36ft, then there isn’t a massive difference when looking through the scopes.

But if one is at 39ft and the other has a 29ft FOV, then that will be readily apparent to the viewer.

Make sense?
 
Small differences in magnification matter more at the low end much more than at the top.

17x vs 22x isn’t that much. But 3.5 vs 4.5 matters. And, depending on each scope’s FOV, then that might even out a little OR the differences might increase.

For example, if at 3.5x scope A has a FOV of 39ft @ 100yds and scope B at 4.5x is at 36ft, then there isn’t a massive difference when looking through the scopes.

But if one is at 39ft and the other has a 29ft FOV, then that will be readily apparent to the viewer.

Make sense?
It makes perfect sense, CB. Thank you. F7
 
All of those answers are assisting, Glass. Here's what I got, or what is outstanding in my mind:

Atmospheric conditions are not hitting me at 50 yards so the IQ may appear a bit better than at long or very long range.
They are hitting you, but just not in the quantity they are at greater distances, how much that difference is is determined by the type of atmospheric interference. For example, thick fog, won't matter if you're 50 or 500 still won't see anything beyond a few feet.
So, finickiness aside, how about the IQ of the 1.5-15 vs. the 4.5-28 at any power?
Two different designs with very different purposes in mind. It depends on the Goldilocks zone for each scope, for example, if Goldilocks on the 4.5-28 is between 12-20x for example and Goldilocks on the 1.5-15 is 3-9x. In general most scopes do "better" at lower magnifications so comparing the 4.5-28 and 1.5-15 at 6x may be somewhat of a wash, but as you approach higher magnifications and get outside the Goldilocks zone, that where more of the differences will be seen.
And how might the 1-10x24 be more "forgiving" during the day (which is when I shoot)?
A smaller aperture scope generally has better DOF and may appear more forgiving, I mention during the day because the 24mm objective really becomes a hindrance in lower light.
I take your comment about the LHT to mean that March is still superior in all ways but size. Correct? (And I only now realize that the Razor LHT's come in FFP and SFP. I am fine with SFP, by the way.)
I would say "weight" more than size, but that could be what you meant. I have not done a comparison of the LHT 4.5-22 and March 4.5-28 directly (even though I have both scopes), hmmmm, maybe another review in the future... but I would say having used both, I would say the March 4.5-28 has a distinct advantage in most areas outside of weight.
Your comments about a desired magnification range for the LHT puzzle a novice shooter like myself. (I am not a kid, though.) To me, while I have been learning lots and lots about scopes in the last year or so, I am a bit baffled by your concern over the difference between a 4.5-22 and a 3.5-17, and so on, though I am sure you know what you're talking about. They seem so close in range to me.
It's personal preference, for a crossover style of optic that could be used on a dedicated hunting rig or used on a tactical platform like DMR/SPR, having lower magnification (greater FOV is the goal) is helpful when you need to take a shot at something up close, but you also have to have a reticle that is usable at this lower magnification otherwise the benefits are negated in large part. The narrow FOV of the LHT 4.5-22 really limits it's ability in this capacity which is why I say I would have preferred the LHT had a lower magnification starting point because it means more in a crossover design than having 22x at the top. It is a common fallacy to think that in order to shoot farther one needs more magnification, as many who have experience in ELR shooting can attest, cranking up the magnification at extreme distances can make an image go haywire (see above about atmospherics at distance) as mirage (or what most of us refer to as mirage but is really the effect of the heat waves rising from the surface of the ground), in order to combat this you have to back down on magnification. Last year I shot ELR in 100°+ heat and was using no more than 16x the entire weekend on targets out to 1.5 miles, I had no issue engaging the target accurately at 16x and even 12x (I know because I shot a whole round at 12x and didn't realize it until my stage was done).
While I began my 'March' quest thinking about the 2.5-25x42/52 or the 3-24x52, or possibly the 1.5-15, some (helpful) online shooters have been saying things about March's lesser IQ in these models compared to top-tier scopes and touting the High Master and Genesis line. (Some high masters have a very tiny FoV [e.g., the 10-60, etc.], and the Genesis is too heavy [and expensive!] for me; but I still may consider a HM model). So, I was beginning to more think about the March 4.5-28, and you moved me there yet a bit more.
The 4.5-28 is a High Master as well and there is some evidence that shows the HM design does help with "cutting through" mirage better than other designs; however, I would say most high end "alpha" grade glass is able to do this. I had my March 4.5-28x52 when I also had my Minox ZP5 5-25 and Tangent Theta 5-25 and I would not say that the March did any better at combating mirage in any situation I had them out in. I will say this, the March 4.5-28x52 HM is definitely a cut above the March 3-24x52 optically (I have no experience with 2.5-25 as it is SFP and they bore me). Do not be deceived by high magnification (unless you're shooting flies and wasps at close range :ROFLMAO:), for your application you might appreciate a good 3-18 design like the Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 or even the new Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56. The lower the erector ratio the more forgiving a scope tends to be (all else being equal).
Yes, I have two acres, thank God, and I snipe pests from windows. and do some target shooting. I sympathize with your inability to shoot at home due to the location change.
😭
Anything relevant to my modest context you can say about various March scopes, without hating me (!) for taking up your time, will be much appreciated. Again, I am not a competitor, etc., I simply shoot on my property and want to peer through top glass some day.
Don't get too caught up in "top glass", there are plenty of "lesser" scopes that do a fantastic job these days, it's not like 10 years ago with the delineation between mid tier and top tier was much greater, there are scopes in the mid tier today that do as good and sometimes better than scopes priced in a higher tier. Try and figure out what magnification at the bottom and what magnification at the top is really going to help and then choose a reticle that best suits your shooting needs. March, Tangent, ZCO and Schmidt all make top quality glass, but not everybody needs this level of glass and certainly don't "need" it in order to get hits on target both near and far.
Thank you very much for your valuable time. F7
Sure, just passing on what I've learned and always trying to learn more.
 
They are hitting you, but just not in the quantity they are at greater distances, how much that difference is is determined by the type of atmospheric interference. For example, thick fog, won't matter if you're 50 or 500 still won't see anything beyond a few feet.

Two different designs with very different purposes in mind. It depends on the Goldilocks zone for each scope, for example, if Goldilocks on the 4.5-28 is between 12-20x for example and Goldilocks on the 1.5-15 is 3-9x. In general most scopes do "better" at lower magnifications so comparing the 4.5-28 and 1.5-15 at 6x may be somewhat of a wash, but as you approach higher magnifications and get outside the Goldilocks zone, that where more of the differences will be seen.

A smaller aperture scope generally has better DOF and may appear more forgiving, I mention during the day because the 24mm objective really becomes a hindrance in lower light.

I would say "weight" more than size, but that could be what you meant. I have not done a comparison of the LHT 4.5-22 and March 4.5-28 directly (even though I have both scopes), hmmmm, maybe another review in the future... but I would say having used both, I would say the March 4.5-28 has a distinct advantage in most areas outside of weight.

It's personal preference, for a crossover style of optic that could be used on a dedicated hunting rig or used on a tactical platform like DMR/SPR, having lower magnification (greater FOV is the goal) is helpful when you need to take a shot at something up close, but you also have to have a reticle that is usable at this lower magnification otherwise the benefits are negated in large part. The narrow FOV of the LHT 4.5-22 really limits it's ability in this capacity which is why I say I would have preferred the LHT had a lower magnification starting point because it means more in a crossover design than having 22x at the top. It is a common fallacy to think that in order to shoot farther one needs more magnification, as many who have experience in ELR shooting can attest, cranking up the magnification at extreme distances can make an image go haywire (see above about atmospherics at distance) as mirage (or what most of us refer to as mirage but is really the effect of the heat waves rising from the surface of the ground), in order to combat this you have to back down on magnification. Last year I shot ELR in 100°+ heat and was using no more than 16x the entire weekend on targets out to 1.5 miles, I had no issue engaging the target accurately at 16x and even 12x (I know because I shot a whole round at 12x and didn't realize it until my stage was done).

The 4.5-28 is a High Master as well and there is some evidence that shows the HM design does help with "cutting through" mirage better than other designs; however, I would say most high end "alpha" grade glass is able to do this. I had my March 4.5-28x52 when I also had my Minox ZP5 5-25 and Tangent Theta 5-25 and I would not say that the March did any better at combating mirage in any situation I had them out in. I will say this, the March 4.5-28x52 HM is definitely a cut above the March 3-24x52 optically (I have no experience with 2.5-25 as it is SFP and they bore me). Do not be deceived by high magnification (unless you're shooting flies and wasps at close range :ROFLMAO:), for your application you might appreciate a good 3-18 design like the Burris XTR III 3.3-18x50 or even the new Steiner T6Xi 3-18x56. The lower the erector ratio the more forgiving a scope tends to be (all else being equal).

😭

Don't get too caught up in "top glass", there are plenty of "lesser" scopes that do a fantastic job these days, it's not like 10 years ago with the delineation between mid tier and top tier was much greater, there are scopes in the mid tier today that do as good and sometimes better than scopes priced in a higher tier. Try and figure out what magnification at the bottom and what magnification at the top is really going to help and then choose a reticle that best suits your shooting needs. March, Tangent, ZCO and Schmidt all make top quality glass, but not everybody needs this level of glass and certainly don't "need" it in order to get hits on target both near and far.

Sure, just passing on what I've learned and always trying to learn more.
I copy on all.

Once again, I genuinely appreciate the very generous amount of time you have given to my questions.

I am going to check out the Burris and the Steiner. I am a deal shopper, as many are, so we shall see what surfaces. As of now, I may still be leaning towards the March 4.5-28, especially with your comment about its superior IQ compared to the 3-24. This kind of comment is most helpful to me. (I would imagine the 2.5-25 is in the neighborhood of the 3-24, but I know there are differences, notably with the 10x magnification range, which, I'd think, would not make it have the advantage over the 8x range of the 3-24, but I am speculating.)

And I know that many folks would love any future reviews that you may do.
For now, take care, Glass. F7
 
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I went S&B 3-20 Ultra Short MSR2 DTII+ etc. for my AR10 build only because I wanted the low end more than the high. Otherwise, March 4.5-28 would've been a serious contender. Definitely check out the Steiner T6 if weight isn't an issue. I have an LHT 4.5-22 on another rifle and it's great for the weight, but the FOV isn't the best and 4.5 is a lot more than 3X in practice.
 
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I went S&B 3-20 Ultra Short MSR2 DTII+ etc. for my AR10 build only because I wanted the low end more than the high. Otherwise, March 4.5-28 would've been a serious contender. Definitely check out the Steiner T6 if weight isn't an issue. I have an LHT 4.5-22 on another rifle and it's great for the weight, but the FOV isn't the best and 4.5 is a lot more than 3X in practice.
Thank you, CT.

I appreciate the reply. I will check out the S&B.
And you are one more person that seems positive towards the 4.5-28 March.
Yes. Glass is not happy with the small (23.5-4.7 ft/100yds) FoV of this scope either. The FoV of the LHT 3-15 is much better (35.3-7.0 ft/100 yds), but, as I am learning, lots of folks are not well served by SFP scopes. It is only recently that I am learning about all these matters.

Take care. S7
 
Don't 4get this revue by U



The shorter scope w/the 52mm objective took some hard "shots" and "body blows" from the longer scope w/the 56mm objective but was still standing @ the end of the fight.

UNFORGETTABLE READING; Bcuz reading this contributed greatly to the disappearance of $3,500.00 from my wallet.
The last line is funny, but quite relatable to.
 
Hi!

I'm looking into replacing my March 1-10x24 with something with a bit more magnification. The intended use is target shooting (paper) at 100 & 300m and the occasional session on steel at 200 (for which the 10x is just fine). You may say 10x is plenty for that, however i'm used to high magnification optics. The rifle in question is an HK MR223 (16.5" barrel). 95% of the time i'm shooting off a bag or bipod. Weight is not too big of a concern to me.

I've narrowed my choices down to the March-FX "Wide Angle" 4.5-28x52mm and the Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PM II.

The March with the new Shuriken turrets is just sexy and maybe more suited to an AR due to it's smaller size, but it's also more expensive than the S&B. Though the S&B seems "oldschool" nowadays. On the other hand it has a reputation of being build like a tank.

Any input? Thoughts? Maybe something else i've overlooked in that price range?
Kahles K525i CCW RSW SKMR4 reitele. 👍🏼

Edit: I see you already got a scope... But I'll leave this here for anyone else looking for options in that price range.
 
In case you didn’t know, the March 4.5-28 is on a great sale right now on several sites, including Eurooptics and ScopeList. These scopes do not have the Shuriken locks, a reason the sale is so good, from what I hear. F7
 
Only had it on the range briefly so far, but - i'm impressed! Especially by the large field of view!! That's what i wanted from it, a nice big picture and large field of view. And it's about the largest scope i think would look "right" on a 16" AR.

hkmarch.jpg


I don't have a real comparison to other expensive optics, but so far i am really happy with the image quality. To me it's an incredibly piece of optic and i'm very happy i spent the money on it! I didn't have a real side-by-side comparison, but the older S&B i had a look through on the range didn't impress me as much. Hope i get some more range time with this thing soon! Mount is a Spuhr SP-4026, very low but juuust enough clearance to put the flip up covers on. But the quick lever hits the mount, with it can't go lower than 8x.
 
The scope looks great on that gun, a very elegant combination.


Your individual eyesight and the way you perceive colors seems to have "hit it off" w/the March.


I'm glad U had a happy ending.
 
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