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Memo to Merkel on Ukraine - Worth the Read

#2
Well they drafted me once already, they can't do it twice.

Germany going into the Ukraine/any direct action with Russia is not going to happen. Not even close. Between the fact that Germany will not be reinforced by the US for multiple reasons (already busy, pussy for a leader, broke as fuck) and they will have no real allies that would put in a substantial amount of manpower, soldiers, logistics and money there is less than zero chance Germany is doing anything short of Russia invading Poland.

Besides that, we don't have the manpower or equipment. We lack any real combat training, and our ROE is even worse than the watered down shit the US endures in Iraq/Afghanistan. This may or may not be due to the SS skull flying crazy people that came home with body counts and nazi tattoos after fighting on the Albanian border during KFOR and were in part directly responsible for the Bundeswehr reorganization of the 1st Gebirgsjager in 2002 into the 10th Panzer at only 3,000 man strength....but what do I know.

Plus, who are we taking with us? Greece? lol France? lol Spain? lol Romania? lol Italy? lol a bunch of African countries wearing a blue UN hat? lol

And even if we had the manpower, equipment and were willing to take on the debt of the fight (as well as all of the half assed allied countries we'd take with us that left us holding the bag at the end) Germany doesn't currently have the same Triumph of the Will based population we once had and have a bare majority over the sissy ass socialist politically correct EMO whiny ass California-lite faggots that will protest and set themselves on fire after we lose 7 people or the first 'we bombed a hospital' bullshit comes out on CNN; whichever occurs first.

Not happening.
 
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#3
That wasn't the point of the memo. They are asking Merkel to dissent on the idea of granting NATO membership status to the Ukraine. The memo also is highlighting the fact that we have war hawks that are pushing for a confrontation with Russia, indirectly or directly.
 
#4
Right but if the Ukraine is granted NATO status and the Russians keep screwing with them.....what I just wrote is the next topic of discussion/next step and it is clear that we don't want to paint ourselves into the corner of having to rescue them.
 
#5
One thing is political talk and posturing quite another is fighting a war. As said western world has no stomach for anything but pounding 3rd world nations or peoples into dust from 3km or farther god forbid someone breaks fingernail doing it. Taking on modern army which is determined and technologically more or less equal would cause casualties which i highly doubt NATO forces in its current form (number of troops) can either sustain and keep combat effectiveness or population at home can stomach.
This "intelligence veterans" speaking out is more and more common which kind of worries me (unless they are some dismissed and disgruntled officers who only aim to do damage - which i highly doubt because people chosen for this profession are neither dumb nor reckless/impulsive - which i cannot say for politicians) that this so called shadow government has become rogue (even more than we are being led to believe via various conspiracy theories) and that will spell disaster for everyone (aka planet).

Speaking as a human being i find no reason whatsoever for anyone with any moral fiber and conscience to meddle into Ukrainian civil war. Ukies attacked Russian speaking Ukrainians and they've responded (with or without help from RF - probably with unofficial help though nothing has been proven (quite to the contrary even OSCE an EU sponsored and controlled body reports that they find no evidence to support accusation of RF helping Novorussian forces at all), but we know for sure from captured MRE and cargo planes landing in Ukraine that at least US, Canada, Poland, Estonia etc... actively helped Ukies) with referendum and armed rebellion. At least that last part SHOULD (but obviously there is waning relation to old ways in general public nowadays) resonate strongly among freemen and especially Americans who did something similar in 1770ies, furthermore even for those more history and Constitution challenged ones they should not forget activities that caused various "springs" in Africa, Yugoslav affair with Kosovo and dissolution of Warsaw pact.

As would Yoda say: Hypocrisy runs strong in Western family.
 
#6
If the Ukraine or Europe was worth saving, I'd be all for it, but after spending 70+ years and Trillions on our NATO commitment (reallly as the only one who took the threat seriously)I think we have donated enough to that shithole, lazy assed, pussified region. After witnessing protests in Germany against the US in the 80's when installing the Pershings 2 missiles and over a million protesting us going into Iraq in London in 2003, I came to the conclusion that the people of Europe are not worth one US life or $. Maybe some Putinization is what these welfare queens need.
 
#7
Our politically correct culture does not have the stomach to face the realities of the true threat we face.

Somehow, someone, came up with the idea we should take a stick and stir up some shit where no problem exists in order to avoid reality. For once Obam was right when he told Romney the 80s wants its policy back. Putin is no Republican, in the good sense of the word, but he isnt Stalin either. He wants to keep a lid on his oligarchy and build an economy.

We are not better off fighting the wars of the last century when the true enemy made his intent and end goal known at the dawn of this century.

Communism is not coming back to Russia. The young people have had a taste of capitalism and will not so easily be fooled again.

Putin actually has his problems with our common enemy. He, to his credit, has handled the issue with strength.

Our liberal elite refuse to accept their world consruct of the last 40 years is wrong. They cling to their belief that by extending a hand to shake and kissing ass they can be loved. Didnt work out so well for Foley did it.
 
#10
From 7:00 onwards is the key point which i can wholeheartedly confirm 1st hand. We (slowly recognizing this now) were duped into believing after leaving Yugo that we will be better off in EU and how this is new paradise when in fact is nothing but servitude, cheap labor and bitches to exploit. Austrians consider us inferior and dream of reviving Austro-hungary empire again (failed miserably as their banks are going down the drain :) ) and this EU is nothing but socialistic, eco-fascist, bureaucratic dinosaur where Orwell's farm seems to be childsplay in comparison.
 
#11
As you said (MAD) there would be no walking home as probably home would look like Mars and we all would be either floating energy leftovers or there would be huge crowd at hells door(st. peter i doubt would be very busy fella).
 
#12
Gunfighter14e2 said:
These folks do not wag the dog, but when the lack of direction from many decades of low IQ wallet voters fail, the cream will start to rise, before the total collapse begins.
Loved the comment about the broken nail, by the way. So by that I guess you mean the Russians might take longer than 13+ years before we could say we can go home? My guess is MAD would rear it head first, but only after we had many strongly worded statements and 3-4 lines in the sand,... On a scale of 1-10 (10 best) I'd give the rags a 6, but the Russians (and a few others) are far more capable than most know.
Could be why the retired guys are now pacing the floors, then again why keep telling you own folks when they do not even understand what the word "is" is, or 2+2 is not 6, or lets bankrupt them on technology that does not work ?
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You seem to be saying that the Russians are significantly more capable than those we are presently in a shooting war with and deciding to open that fight , when we are unwilling to conduct the present fight we have, concerns rationally thinking individuals.

I agree with that.

Regards the EU. I see that there is currently a big rush to buy so called high power vacuums in Europe because these models have been banned in order to reduce a "carbon footprint". So the people are voting with their wallets for working technology in order to avoid using want wont work and they are being forced to buy.

Im sure this will soon be coming to our shores. Fucking crazy when with all the problems in the world the government devotes time to regulating vacuums. Something sucks about that and apparently it wont be the "hoover" or Miele cannister.
 
#14
To allow urkaine into NATO is just another way of saying, have the USA foot the bill, with money (that they have to barrow) and with their blood. The European's have spent so much time and effort creating a welfare state, a nanny state, a pussy state, that they can't put forth a real military. If one adds up the total number "military strength" of all the EU's members, you'll be amazed at the size. Once again size and ability are easily confused. Remember, the EU called the US, on their special 911 phone line to cross the Atlantic and whip ass in Bosnia (region). While most of the EU members could have driven to Bosnia, in one day, on nice roads, the thought of actually doing anything scared the shit out of them-they called the US, as usual. NATO has become another term for "let American's pay for it, with money and blood". The Europeans will just keep carrying their 'man' purses and having parades etc.. Let's face it, if Russia actually wanted to take over the entire Ukraine, they could do so in less than 24 hours-make it 36 with breaks for hot chow and field showers etc. One of the most corrupt countries in the modern world is Ukraine. My guess, the only reason there is any fighting at all in that shithole is so their corrupt, low life piece of shit, "leadership" can get more "foreign aide". America has nothing to gain by sticking our nose in a 100% European problem. It's High-Time the Europeans strap on a set of balls and take care of their own problems, with their own money, and their own blood.
 
#15
woojos said:
I watched this the other day. I find it a bit surprising that some of the views here match his assessment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cikvqdMRTTA
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While there is propaganda in that (of course), most Americans will never see this and never understand the mirrored effect of our foreign policy and banking system on the rest of the world. Most Americans are oblivious to the fact that the actions of a very few individuals create legions around the world that would like nothing more than to slaughter all of us.
 
#16
Gunfighter14e2 said:
Good things come to those who wait,....or plan/prepare correctly. I'll meet ya in the islands south of New Zealand, you bring the drinks an women, I'll bring the ice and chips!
I will be easy to spot, old guy from Bama with a big smile saying "Stupid is as stupid does"!
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Let's look at the fools, anti-American (when it suits them) from New Zealand, shall we? First the low life piece of shit country, will not allow any American Naval Ship CAPABLE of carrying a nuclear weapon to dock there! They are such good people they hate nucs! But wait! When these shitheads are in trouble, who do they cry to like fat little girls? The US of course! They want (and get) access to our markets, but our sailors and our ships are beneath them. Next time these little pukes are in trouble, and cry America 911-I hope we don't pick up the phone. Gunfighter-I'll bet you believe America should send men to die to protect the Ukraine! I believe Europe should take of Europe-not crying like fat little new Zealand girls for the US to spend our money and our blood. But this is what you get from those people that have gone along with Socialization of their countries (one small step away from Communism). Get your "man" purse and go down the anti-American demonstration, you'll fit right in.
 
#17
And my "running password" (in case you bring with you trigger itch :) ) will be "all the women were nagging so i just brought drinks".

Which one first :):


http://img01.lachschon.de/images/104940_usa_vs_russland.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WeDLm.jpg



Seriously though this is major clusterfuck brewing but i think you have it wrong as its not Europe asking for help (not that we(they) don't need it but due to being totally inept and are unable to think for themselves) but more like US running the show (i know people in US at least those with open eyes couldn't care less but idiots and lobbyist do) and the rest following. I personally have lost any hope for improvement as regardless of increasing support for the so called right (Farage, Le Pen etc...) society itself is (as you have stated correctly) pussified beyond rescue and at this point not wort a damn. From Russian viewpoint (and mine in this case) entire nations of EU are beyond contempt, i personally would not even sit at the same table as idiots running the show in EU let alone negotiate. They are truly scum of the earth i would guess that even the most hardcore muslim jihadist is more of a human (at least he has a stand and a pair) than those fucks.
I hope this winter Russians turn off the gas and idiots all over EU freeze their ass off or at least get irritated enough to start kicking politicians asses (yeah right like this will happen here).
 
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#18
slaughter all of us.
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Actually most of the people would not and still consider average Joe as above average nice and hospitable man who is basically a very decent person. As far as i can tell there are quite few of you who are clearly educated and open minded people with no ill will towards fellow man. Yes there are plenty of mindless drones and useful idiots who can't seem to pull their head out of their asses but that particular type is widespread in todays world.
 
#20
Gunfighter14e2 said:
I thought you had a clue guess not. Name me the 5 places on this rock the trade winds will not carry fall out from Russia, N.America or Euro? That's right Oh wise one, the best place to survive a nuke war, is the Islands south of NZ. The other 4 have very harsh enviros I can't party in or grow my own food, and as far as NZ policy's fuck them. If it comes to a war of MAD, I'll shoot my way in if I have to!

I could give a fuck less what you think, but as a mind reader you fail!
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Wow! I realized you must be off your meds, but the above rant is proof positive!!!
Is this the reason the low life scum in NZ won't allow a single US Naval ship CAPABLE of carrying nuclear weapon dock at their ports? But they sure love the protection they are given by those nucs!! Typical fat little crying girls!!! Pull your head out of "the sky is falling", get back on your lithium, or what ever else is needed to help you "cope". I haven't seen a single Div of NZ super fighters hauling ass to Ukraine, on their own dime no less, what gives with that? It's different when you girls have to pay with money and blood. I guess you are still stuck in the "call the US" they'll do it for free, mode! I'm always amazed at how those living outside the US, or not even US citizens pontificate on how we Americans should spend our money and blood, and almost always have zero, or very, very little skin in the game. Most their money goes to social welfare programs-they don't have any left over for defense-but they sure have a lot of suggestions on how we spend ours!! HAHAHAHAHA, our little girl,gunfighter, is all worried about the sky falling, and he can't wait to grow some kiwi, and bread fruit.......
 
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#21
Ring_girl.jpg
 
#22
Gunfighter14e2 said:
You really don't have a clue, but I'm glad you think you know it all. However as a mind reader your word for today,... is still,... "Fail"
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Don't need to be a "mind reader" just a reader, your word say it all, THE SKY IF FALLING THE SKY IS FALLYING, the only safe place is NZ, we can grow kiwi's and sing songs. blablablablabla
Please get back on your meds, with your socialized medicine, you should be able to get them "free". The biggest failure I can think of is NZ refusal to allow US Naval Ships CAPABLE of carrying a nuclear weapon to dock in NZ! You are a bunch of Jane Fonda types to be sure. At the first sign of trouble, you'll be crying like a fat little nz girl, "America please send money men and weapons" just like so many other looser nations with a superiority complex. BTW if you assholes are so smart, why haven't you gone over to Ukraine and kicked ass? Is is just so much easier to "call the US"???? I bet it is...
 
#23
Thanks god for Pawprint2 as we lowlifes all over the globe have possibility to share the planet with such exceptional people who bring light to our dark days. I feel humbled and very very lucky to be able to read all the wisdom great Paw decided to share with us lowlifes. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside knowing there is such greatness possible in a mere mortal.
 
#25
Gunfighter14e2 said:
Your so full of shit, on so many levels it's hard to find the beginning. Your one of those types that think if you say it enough times, the weak will believe you. The amount of those on this board that have your number is staggering and why you mostly talk to yourself. Keep up the babble you may get lucky, but I have better things to do,... I do have one parting question,... If your so smart why are you not running this country??
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GF for the win by KO.
 
#26
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is a political agreement signed in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories relating to Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.[1]

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical though not operational control. The use of the weapons was dependent on Russian controlled electronic Permissive Action Links and the Russian command and control system.[4][5]

Following the 2014 Crimean crisis, the U.S.,[6][7] Canada,[8] the U.K.,[9] as well as the other countries [10] all separately stated that Russian involvement is in breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, and in clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. Russia, however, argued that the Budapest memorandum does not apply to the 2014 Crimean crisis because separation of Crimea was driven by an internal political and social-economic crisis. Russia initially claimed it was never under obligation to force any part of Ukraine's civilian population to stay in Ukraine against its will.[11
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ukraine should have know better than to sign a treaty with the US, Britain and France. A treaty with any of them ain't worth a drop of sour creme on a week old pierogie.
 
#28
Gunfighter14e2 said:
Your so full of shit, on so many levels it's hard to find the beginning. Your one of those types that think if you say it enough times, the weak will believe you. The amount of those on this board that have your number is staggering and why you mostly talk to yourself. Keep up the babble you may get lucky, but I have better things to do,... I do have one parting question,... If your so smart why are you not running this country??
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Which country are you talking about? You are in NZ, we're talking about Ukraine, and I'm an American living in America? I've noticed- you talk to the weak of mind-those like yourself, those that cannot recognize that you fail to address any facts, just run around screaming, "THE SKY IF FALLING, MOVE TO NZ AND PLANT KIWIS", The cold hard facts are, the piece of shit country NZ refuses to allow American Naval Vessels Capable of carry nuclear weapons to port in their country. In WWII, they sure as hell didn't mind American involvement!! No telling how many American's died to keep you assholes from speaking Japanese!!! Yet, our ships can not dock, our sailor and marines can't go ashore, etc. because you are so much better than the rest of the world, you hate nucs, that's precious!!!
Lady, I don't care what kind of dribble that continues to flow out of your suck hole, it is a constant source of amazement, how those in foreign countries feel as if they have a voice in how America spends its money and its blood! And I must add, as they never seem to want to step up to the pump and send their bad ass parade troops. This may seem like I'm the smartest guy you've ever heard from, but actually millions of thinking men/women in the US can and do see the same thing. Perhaps someone who actually points out the fact should be running your country, or so it seems by your post. Maybe you could import one-just don't get one from CA, you'll likely find another anti-nuc, anti-American, dim wit, but check almost anywhere else, you'll do okay.
 
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#29
Phil1 said:
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is a political agreement signed in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories relating to Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.[1]

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical though not operational control. The use of the weapons was dependent on Russian controlled electronic Permissive Action Links and the Russian command and control system.[4][5]

Following the 2014 Crimean crisis, the U.S.,[6][7] Canada,[8] the U.K.,[9] as well as the other countries [10] all separately stated that Russian involvement is in breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, and in clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. Russia, however, argued that the Budapest memorandum does not apply to the 2014 Crimean crisis because separation of Crimea was driven by an internal political and social-economic crisis. Russia initially claimed it was never under obligation to force any part of Ukraine's civilian population to stay in Ukraine against its will.[11
Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ukraine should have know better than to sign a treaty with the US, Britain and France. A treaty with any of them ain't worth a drop of sour creme on a week old pierogie.
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I'm pretty sure a memorandum, does not have the power of a treaty, you know the kind specified in the Constitution, the kind that is ratified by the Senate. It appears the President at the time gave assurances based on his tenure, and his tenure alone, as it was not a treaty-ratified by the Senate. Any one thinking that a pres can issue a memorandum of understanding/security assurance and bind the US forever, is not a student of the Constitution, because he can not. The stockpile of nucs were the property of the Soviets at the time, in their operational control, the truth is Ukraine didn't own them to start with, they were part of the Russian command. The statement "Ukraine should have know better(I think you meant known) than to sign a treaty......." is smoke and mirror bull shit. This went from a memorandum to a Treaty, because you say so? May I suggest you actually take a few minutes and read our Constitution, it is very specific on how America enters into a Treaty, it makes no mention of a memorandum of Security.
 
#30
Gunfighter14e2 said:
Now I really know you don't have a clue, as does everyone else here that knows I have lived in the same place from my first day on the Hide. Your assumptions will be your down fall one day and you can take that to the bank. If your so smart why don't you ask around were I live and to whom I swore and oath to more than 4 times, the first in 1964 in Chicago, the second in Cambodia, the third in Va, and the last one is none of your fucking business. The threads and forums you don't enter, is telling to say the least, but I'm here to learn, YOU?

Awaiting your ASS-U-MING answer.
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Facts are hard to bring ones self to refute: For example, Americans died (lots of them) to keep NZ from speaking Japanese
Fact: NZ, being so pure and better than America, has forbidden American Naval Vessels from docking in NZ if that ship is Capable of carry a nuc, Our Sailor and Marines must suffer (no shore leave etc.) for NZ's little bull shit. Not to mention the Navy's effectiveness, supply etc. must be done in other places.
Fact: NZ will scream again, if the situation arises, "Please send troops and ships to protect us" and they won't specify, only on ships that are not capable to carrying a nuc!! Typical bull shit, want it both ways.
Fact: assholes with no skin in the game, want American and Americans to go to Ukraine to fight and die fighting the Russians, but they and their piece of shit countries don't seem to be jumping in the game, it's not just the loud talker and no doers from NZ, but many in the EU as well!
Yes those that can't address facts, and believe the "Sky if Falling" are suffering some kind mental problem, maybe booze related, or drugs, or both, it could even be a sign of advanced syphilis, but what ever it is, it comes off as cowardice-yes cowardice. When one is toooo scared to address facts.
 
#31
Gunfighter14e2 said:
Yes they are, and your the one who did not fact check your shit at the door in this thread, thinking I was from ZN. That's funny I don't care who your are. Your patterns on the Hide are will known but unlike some who cower to your B/S us Bama boys ain't built that way.
Keep talking about NZ like I could give a fuck. Wait hold that thought the more you drag up meaningless shit the higher the thread posts get, which will draw a crowd. Keep babbling your bound to draw someone that will try to back you up, then again most can read and comp for their selfs but while your on a roll keep digging,... Need a bigger shovel?
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No ones going to back him up, cause its the same old PP2 BS. He actually comes up with good stuff at times and I get to thinking maybe he's got the message, then he comes up with this repetitive chortle and that thought goes out the window. He sounds like NesikaBay chanting:

Kris Kyle lied
Kris Kyle is a liar
Kris Kyle lied.

Get a life both of you.
 
#32
The only shit I checked is your invitation to NZ!!!! But as usual, you babble with the IQ of around 90 (I'm generous), failing to address the facts, but then again, liberal politicos are experts are dodging hard questions, and running down the USA. You're trying, you just don't have what it takes, you've gotten the running down the US part, you've got the-dodging the questions part, but your ability to transition is ghetto-ish at best. The sky is falling, and you are going to NZ because of possible Nuclear fallout, was telling-telling you are a fool, a looney tunes, shy of a full load type drunk. I have little doubt you have a few too many (just like everyday), but running down the US-insisting we go to wars with out money and our blood for others not willing to do for themselves is something I'd expect from one of the rioting trash in Ferguson MO-you fit that bill.
 
#35
It sure is a bitch when it is documented! For example in post number 16 you state, "Good things come to those who wait.." in reference to Nuclear fallout traveling from the US! This is the most anti-American bull shit I've heard outside an ISIS rant in a long time! GOOD THINGS? For me, any nuclear weapons hitting the US would be the MOST horrible thing I could think of, but for you "good thing come to those who wait". Post #16 Not try to hide a thing, straight forward, hate that for you, but you may be better off leaving for NZ now, and wait for the "good things" from there.
 
#36
pawprint2 said:
It sure is a bitch when it is documented! For example in post number 16 you state, "Good things come to those who wait.." in reference to Nuclear fallout traveling from the US! This is the most anti-American bull shit I've heard outside an ISIS rant in a long time! GOOD THINGS? For me, any nuclear weapons hitting the US would be the MOST horrible thing I could think of, but for you "good thing come to those who wait". Post #16 Not try to hide a thing, straight forward, hate that for you, but you may be better off leaving for NZ now, and wait for the "good things" from there.
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"Very troubled and confused soul, this one is." Yoda

GF, you should just stop now. This has gotten to be like poking a retarded child with a stick. Not even funny.
 
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#40
Gunfighter14e2 said:
I thought you had a clue guess not. Name me the 5 places on this rock the trade winds will not carry fall out from Russia, N.America or Euro? That's right Oh wise one, the best place to survive a nuke war, is the Islands south of NZ. The other 4 have very harsh enviros I can't party in or grow my own food, and as far as NZ policy's fuck them. If it comes to a war of MAD, I'll shoot my way in if I have to!

I could give a fuck less what you think, but as a mind reader you fail!
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Above is post #21
here is post number 16:
Good things come to those who wait,....or plan/prepare correctly. I'll meet ya in the islands south of New Zealand, you bring the drinks an women, I'll bring the ice and chips!
I will be easy to spot, old guy from Bama with a big smile saying "Stupid is as stupid does"!

Now let's look at his abortion, shall we? """good things come to those who wait", then followed up with, "..the 5 places on this rock the trade winds will not carry fall out from Russia, N.AMERICA"
Good things? For me this sounds like something from ISIS or Iran, I can't imagine a real American referring to this as a Good Thing.
We may survive Obama, but we will never survive a nuclear war, this is not a good thing, I'm sorry for you thinking it is so, I am also surprised at those "Americans" that support you in this thought. Hope this help, it's a bitch when it's documented!!!!!!
 
#42
I think it was about drinking Mai tais and banging chics on some deserted island.
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Nah it was about vodka, ship that can carry 8 nice ladies plus one logger lady (dunno where to find such ship for the last part but i'm 100% its mandatory as natural gas will be cut off and who is going to be making firewood with us so drunk and busy with 8) and who will reach more silly on bottle'o meter faster. There was some noise about kiwis and some demigod instructing lowlifes of something but as always with those religious matters i didn't quite get it...
 
#43
Excellent article i really find it distressing that balanced tempted to say sane assessments are coming from veterans of various US positions of power while current administration (i won't even go into EU farce as they are clowns, like watching Monty Python only this is real and not a show) is simply repeating (with help of MSM) the same braindead, unsubstantiated mantras. As if they are so sure that all population in the west is already dumbed down enough to accept it at face value.
 
#45
In your opinion do 'they' (the Ukrains) want help?

I ask as I was talking with my sister in law about this (She was born/raised in Prague) and she indicated that the Ukrain is a fractured mess and that there is no 'they' there to help.

Certainly there are individuals that have a solid vision however, based on her comments, my limited reading of the geo politics of the region, US involvment, the local conditions(including political) there is no united front nor is there a solid majority.

More and more it seems as if its the eastern European version of parts of the middle east.

Thanks for sharing this article....interesting perspective.

Your thoughts?

sharac said:
Excellent article i really find it distressing that balanced tempted to say sane assessments are coming from veterans of various US positions of power while current administration (i won't even go into EU farce as they are clowns, like watching Monty Python only this is real and not a show) is simply repeating (with help of MSM) the same braindead, unsubstantiated mantras. As if they are so sure that all population in the west is already dumbed down enough to accept it at face value.
Click to expand...
 
#46
I won't pretend I KNOW Ukies (nazis/western Ukrainians/whatever you want to call them) but from my country i can tell you that typical EU fanboy is in fact a nazi lover, anticommunist wwII collaborator/sympathizer if young who hates communism more than all the shit nazis represent. You (americans) MUST understand that here during WWII there was no "middle" ground there were nazis/germans and there were communists - from todays perspective. BUT and this but is really CAPS BUT communists were not wearing T-shirt "we are communists and all your property are belong to us" but were in fact disguised in honest rebellion against German übermensch occupation and during the war it slowly became also a civil war where communists took over this rebellion and executed/liquidated a huge number of their comrades at arms (here in Slovenia a couple of really good leaders/commanders had "accidents" happen to them in 1945). This virus (Communism) infiltrates even the best intentional groups and tries to subvert initial goals into something else.

I imagine something similar happening in Ukraine where an honest uprising against corrupt bitch (Janukovich) was used by elements (helped and sponsored by Russophobic Poland, Baltic states and US with pathetic meddling of EU) of far right (nazis) to grab power and drive country into civil war by alienating Russian speaking population. The same also happened (even on greater scale in '91+) in Baltic states (hence the fear of Russian reprisals). As to the reasons for that go to the first paragraph as WWII and before was very similar. When Tzarist Russia descended into chaos (imported Communists from the West - Lenin train, practically all of the Communist party leaders were Jews from abroad etc...) the new powers did terrible crimes in Ukraine, Baltic states and this burnt into memory of peoples (with deviation which equated Russians = Communists = Evildoers which simply is not true - or is true to the same extent as current American people like you guys are guilty of having government as you have regardless of love you have for it) there.
I wish i had a magic wand and solution to this problem but i'm afraid there is no one with it and peoples will simply have to either let go of the history at one point or suffer to repeat the endless cycle of vengeance (blood feud mentality). It's difficult to see brothers fight but at the same time no betrayal burns hotter than that of the family.

As to the concrete question your sister in law is correct there are no Ukrainians but broken up people. Ukies (nazis) sure would like help as they wish to eradicate Russians, Ukrainian people (normal ones) just want to live their life and Russian speaking Ukrainians (after the assault) just wish to be left alone and outside Ukraine. However no one seems to care what anyone but Ukies wish for. Above all else this affair is war for resources you must accept the fact that US, EU, Russia, China and the rest of the world are in war for resources. Its not always shooting war but its multidimensional war and several steps forward are already certain. IMHO nuclear obliteration is not so very unlikely as we would like to believe (or hope) as people in charge in October 1962 were several steps above scum in charge today and they've barely managed to solve things more or less peacefully.
 
#47
sharac said:
I won't pretend I KNOW Ukies (nazis/western Ukrainians/whatever you want to call them) but from my country i can tell you that typical EU fanboy is in fact a nazi lover, anticommunist wwII collaborator/sympathizer if young who hates communism more than all the shit nazis represent. You (americans) MUST understand that here during WWII there was no "middle" ground there were nazis/germans and there were communists - from todays perspective. BUT and this but is really CAPS BUT communists were not wearing T-shirt "we are communists and all your property are belong to us" but were in fact disguised in honest rebellion against German übermensch occupation and during the war it slowly became also a civil war where communists took over this rebellion and executed/liquidated a huge number of their comrades at arms (here in Slovenia a couple of really good leaders/commanders had "accidents" happen to them in 1945). This virus (Communism) infiltrates even the best intentional groups and tries to subvert initial goals into something else.

I imagine something similar happening in Ukraine where an honest uprising against corrupt bitch (Janukovich) was used by elements (helped and sponsored by Russophobic Poland, Baltic states and US with pathetic meddling of EU) of far right (nazis) to grab power and drive country into civil war by alienating Russian speaking population. The same also happened (even on greater scale in '91+) in Baltic states (hence the fear of Russian reprisals). As to the reasons for that go to the first paragraph as WWII and before was very similar. When Tzarist Russia descended into chaos (imported Communists from the West - Lenin train, practically all of the Communist party leaders were Jews from abroad etc...) the new powers did terrible crimes in Ukraine, Baltic states and this burnt into memory of peoples (with deviation which equated Russians = Communists = Evildoers which simply is not true - or is true to the same extent as current American people like you guys are guilty of having government as you have regardless of love you have for it) there.
I wish i had a magic wand and solution to this problem but i'm afraid there is no one with it and peoples will simply have to either let go of the history at one point or suffer to repeat the endless cycle of vengeance (blood feud mentality). It's difficult to see brothers fight but at the same time no betrayal burns hotter than that of the family.

As to the concrete question your sister in law is correct there are no Ukrainians but broken up people. Ukies (nazis) sure would like help as they wish to eradicate Russians, Ukrainian people (normal ones) just want to live their life and Russian speaking Ukrainians (after the assault) just wish to be left alone and outside Ukraine. However no one seems to care what anyone but Ukies wish for. Above all else this affair is war for resources you must accept the fact that US, EU, Russia, China and the rest of the world are in war for resources. Its not always shooting war but its multidimensional war and several steps forward are already certain. IMHO nuclear obliteration is not so very unlikely as we would like to believe (or hope) as people in charge in October 1962 were several steps above scum in charge today and they've barely managed to solve things more or less peacefully.
Click to expand...

Interesting commentary, thanks.
 
#50
Thats why i posted as there are all these "oldschool" voices speaking (in unison more or less) and its very different story than that of the official (party :) ) line. Not long ago I really considered nuclear option as an morbid joke from coo coo land (possible sure but somewhere between noway and noway!) but seeing this contrast and where certain actions lead it doesn't seem so coo coo anymore (especially considering an opponent- in this case Russia, seeing something similar and any rational man will eventually conclude that discussion with a lying moron leads nowhere and that sooner or later SHTF talk or no talk, which makes a choice to start SHTF under own terms rational choice) which produces funny feelings and sudden urge to stock on booze, 8 chicks, one logger and a boat.

MAD will work unless one side becomes mad in that case MAD fails and mad rules dunno what happens with both are mad.
 
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