Mild steel past 1000?

[Garvey]

I've got a whole lot for experience shooting AR-500 less than 1000 yards. My range has 1/2" AR-500 out to 500 yards, then 3/8" AR-500 at 600, 700, and 800 yards. I've had to replace 200 to 400 yard steel three times over the last eight years. I've never had to replace steel 500 to 800 yards. Clearly the loss of velocity and energy is why the farther targets have held up.

We are about to set up a range from 1000 to hopefully 2640 yards. Will 3/8" or 1/4" mild steel hold up? As of right now, the most potent cartridge and bullet will be a 250 gr A-tip from a .300 Norma Mag. The question is based on price. Mild steel is considerably less money, and widely available. Plus the fact that I'm wanting 2 MOA targets means the sheets are going to get quite large.

 

[Jackomason]

Ever watch 'mark and sam after work'? you can do it but be safe and be realistic about the life of the target.

I wouldnt do it anywhere that has any people on near by land. thats just me.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Well, you have to factor in for the use of future higher velocity and caliber usage. At first, the slower less powerful calibers would be fine with mild steel, but eventually it may require you to upgrade to thicker material or even the AR 500. One caveat to that, is you would only have to purchase the AR 500 once, and likely the mild steel several times. So is the cost factor that great comparatively over time?

 

[Garvey]

I think anything hitting the steel supersonic is at least going to dent 3/8" mild steel.

No near by land owners. This is going on 4000 acres of private property.

 

[Steel head]

I generally don’t use mild steel till I’m past 1500.
My 7mm is not nice at all to it at 1000 and my 260 dents it at that range
1/4 AR500 lives pretty well at 1100 as long as you’re not hitting it with fast super fast 300 and 338’s.

 

[Matthew488]

The velocity of the bullet is what requires harder steel like AR500 and the energy at impact determines how thick it should be.
One way to experiment would be be to calculate the velocity/ energy of your 300 Norma at distance then see what distance you could duplicate that with say a 44mag 240gr load. And see what that does to a small test plate.
I'll be doing this to see what I can get away with for a Cheytec at a mile plus

 

[Bradv86]

1/4" Mild steel gets trashed very quickly at 850 from a lowly 16" .308 win. Those big magnums are going to destroy it in short order. This is in the transonic range of that .308 load.

Given that what you are talking about is supersonic to a mile and beyond with nearly 100gr more ass I would say you will want to invest in good plates so you aren't changing them out every range session.

 

[acudaowner]

calypso drum at least the sound would be soothing and cool

 

[mcfred]

These pock-marks (the deep ones painted over) are from a 180gr 7mm projectile at about 2100fps. The plate's 3/4" mild:

at 1950fps impact velocity, there's barely a ding.

The same projectile will put a good dent in 3/16" mild at 1650fps (1575yd), but not at 1500fps.

 

[timelinex]

How often do you think it will be hit, how long do you want it to last, and what calibers?

50cal will melt thru the mild steel at most practical ranges, so if you allow 50cal, mild steel is mostly out of the question.

I have 3/8 ar400 at 1400 yards and my 338 hasn't done any damage to it at all.

I have 3/8" mild steel swinging at 1760 and my 338 dents it but after 100+ hits I haven't blasted thru. My buddy uses the same thing, except his is rigid and not swinging (rigid is much harder on steel!). He's got 100s of hits on his and I think he has a few holes on there but they are all from a 375 cheytec. I think he occasionally turns it 180 and starts bending the dents back ha.

I've got 1/4" mild steel for 2200+ and my 338 dents that pretty badly. It may be feasible for you if you are only expecting a few hits every once in a while. Which is a reasonable expectation at 2000+ for most gun ranges......

This holds true for loads on the hotter side for my 338lm with many different bullet variations.

I think the question of how long you want it to last is of vital importance. If youre a range that expects 1000s of hits on the mile target every week/month then it would be dumb to get mild steel. Get the cheaper ar400 in 3/8 (maybe even 1/4 would work?) And that will last literally a lifetime. If you get 100s of hits a year and don't mind replacing every few year, mild steel will get the job done.

I attached my buddies 3/8" mild steel 1760yd target with 100s of hits on it for your reference.

 

[Garvey]

How often do you think it will be hit, how long do you want it to last, and what calibers?

50cal will melt thru the mild steel at most practical ranges, so if you allow 50cal, mild steel is mostly out of the question.

I have 3/8 ar400 at 1400 yards and my 338 hasn't done any damage to it at all.

I have 3/8" mild steel swinging at 1760 and my 338 dents it but after 100+ hits I haven't blasted thru. My buddy uses the same thing, except his is rigid and not swinging (rigid is much harder on steel!). He's got 100s of hits on his and I think he has a few holes on there but they are all from a 375 cheytec. I think he occasionally turns it 180 and starts bending the dents back ha.

I've got 1/4" mild steel for 2200+ and my 338 dents that pretty badly. It may be feasible for you if you are only expecting a few hits every once in a while. Which is a reasonable expectation at 2000+ for most gun ranges......

This holds true for loads on the hotter side for my 338lm with many different bullet variations.

I think the question of how long you want it to last is of vital importance. If youre a range that expects 1000s of hits on the mile target every week/month then it would be dumb to get mild steel. Get the cheaper ar400 in 3/8 (maybe even 1/4 would work?) And that will last literally a lifetime. If you get 100s of hits a year and don't mind replacing every few year, mild steel will get the job done.

I attached my buddies 3/8" mild steel 1760yd target with 100s of hits on it for your reference.

Much appreciated!

Right now the largest cartridge and bullet combo we know will hit them is 250 A-tip from .300 Norma Mag. My current MV is 2925 fps. But the barrel only has 48 rounds down it, and I am still on virgin brass. So, I expect a speed up.

As far as the number of times they will be hit. At the most quarterly, and 10 rounds each.

Let's say .375 Chey Tac will be the largest that will hit them at some point.

 

[Matthew488]

Has anyone tried 1/4" or even 3/16" AR500 for 375 CheyTac at a mile? I have to setup and take down my targets when I go out so trying to keep the weight reasonable for a 36"x36" plate.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Has anyone tried 1/4" or even 3/16" AR500 for 375 CheyTac at a mile? I have to setup and take down my targets when I go out so trying to keep the weight reasonable for a 36"x36" plate.

I just got a 33" 1/4" plate and took it out for the first time last weekend. It's still heavy, but at least it's manageable. We were hitting it at 2100 yards with my 300 PRC, and it's 100% fine - overkill, actually. I plan on using it for my new 37XC as soon as I get it.

 

[timelinex]

Much appreciated!

Right now the largest cartridge and bullet combo we know will hit them is 250 A-tip from .300 Norma Mag. My current MV is 2925 fps. But the barrel only has 48 rounds down it, and I am still on virgin brass. So, I expect a speed up.

As far as the number of times they will be hit. At the most quarterly, and 10 rounds each.

Let's say .375 Chey Tac will be the largest that will hit them at some point.

The 375 cheytac may be an issue as I THINK that's what caused the holes in my buddies 3/8 mild steel. I think one of the big issues is some of the rounds are solids that really pack a punch.

It sounds like everything else, at ~50 rounds a year, you can CONFIDENTLY use 3/8 mild steel (at a mile plus) and not need to replace it for many many years.

 

[b6graham]

shoot some of the PRS matches in NH

mild steel sure looks funny after a few dozen/hundred rounds when its shaped like a bowl

 

[Garvey]

shoot some of the PRS matches in NH

mild steel sure looks funny after a few dozen/hundred rounds when its shaped like a bowl

Farthest I've shot a PRS match is 1280 yards. A pretty much only ELR range is a bit different scenario.

 

[Clearlight]

Depends on caliber, don’t use a 300NM with Berger 230’s, on 8mm mild steel @ 1k...

 

[opeagle]

I concur if AR400 splits the difference price wise it use it over mild.

 

[Matthew488]

I'm planning on using AR500 for mine just not sure whats the minimum thickness I can get away with for my 375BAS at a mile. I can get a 4'x8' sheet of 1/4" or 3/16" locally for $400.

 

[lash]

Use the 1/4” AR400 out to a mile. The cost and weight are better and they ring out pretty good too.

 

[6.5SH]

Use JBM or another calc and figure out your remaining velocity and energy at your planned distances.
1/4" AR400 is good for 2500 fps and 1000 ft/lbs at the target.

1/4" AR400 as a Long Range Rifle Target - MOA Targets LLC Official Blog

MOA Targets currently makes targets from four different steels. 3/8″, 1/2″, and 1″ AR500 for rifles, and 1/4″ AR400 for service pistols and rimfire. The 500 & 400 part is the Brinell hardness, where 400 is softer than 500. We’re always working to improve our data and widen the use of steel...

moatargets.com

EDIT:
Nice chart for AR500 ratings:

Shooting Targets 7 - Target Selection Guide

Don't Pay Too Much - Easily pick the right thickness of AR500 targets for your needs. Read on to save money and grab the targets that are best for you.

shootingtargets7.com

 

[Garvey]

Use JBM or another calc and figure out your remaining velocity and energy at your planned distances.
1/4" AR400 is good for 2500 fps and 1000 ft/lbs at the target.

1/4" AR400 as a Long Range Rifle Target - MOA Targets LLC Official Blog

MOA Targets currently makes targets from four different steels. 3/8″, 1/2″, and 1″ AR500 for rifles, and 1/4″ AR400 for service pistols and rimfire. The 500 & 400 part is the Brinell hardness, where 400 is softer than 500. We’re always working to improve our data and widen the use of steel...

moatargets.com

EDIT:
Nice chart for AR500 ratings:

Shooting Targets 7 - Target Selection Guide

Don't Pay Too Much - Easily pick the right thickness of AR500 targets for your needs. Read on to save money and grab the targets that are best for you.

shootingtargets7.com

Based on the chart, for 3/8" AR-500.
1175 yards is where I drop below 2100 ft/lbs. And at that range I'm at 1892 fps

For 1/4" AR-500, it is 2275 yards where I drop below 700 ft/lbs.

Very helpful, thank you.

 

[dragman]

As people have said. Mild steel wont cut it with a bigger rifle even past 1000. I had a couple 3/8ths mild steel gongs and crows made and If i shoot them at 1100-1400 yards at my range they go flying and it dents them pretty well. If it was a bigger or heavier target im sure the damage would be more than you would want.

 

[timelinex]

Depends on caliber, don’t use a 300NM with Berger 230’s, on 8mm mild steel @ 1k...

Yea, definitely can't use it at 1k, but 1760 and it should not go through.....

Use JBM or another calc and figure out your remaining velocity and energy at your planned distances.
1/4" AR400 is good for 2500 fps and 1000 ft/lbs at the target.

1/4" AR400 as a Long Range Rifle Target - MOA Targets LLC Official Blog

MOA Targets currently makes targets from four different steels. 3/8″, 1/2″, and 1″ AR500 for rifles, and 1/4″ AR400 for service pistols and rimfire. The 500 & 400 part is the Brinell hardness, where 400 is softer than 500. We’re always working to improve our data and widen the use of steel...

moatargets.com

EDIT:
Nice chart for AR500 ratings:

Shooting Targets 7 - Target Selection Guide

Don't Pay Too Much - Easily pick the right thickness of AR500 targets for your needs. Read on to save money and grab the targets that are best for you.

shootingtargets7.com

I haven't read the thread, but the chart link you put in doesn't seem correct. For all practical purposes, you do not need larger than 3/8 AR500 for 338lm and according to that chart you would need 5/8" for everything until basically long range. You can tell it is going to be wrong by even putting the 338lm in the same category as the 50bmg, when it is worlds apart as far as tearing metal apart. I use 3/4" ar500 for closer range 50bmg and 1/2" at medium range and that is enough.

It seems like you agree with my interpretation, since you said: "1/4" AR400 is good for 2500 fps and 1000 ft/lbs at the target.". Meanwhile they are saying ar400 that is 50% THICKER than that can only withstand 300 ft/lb.

My most charitable reading for the chart is they are giving ranges that will absolutely guarantee that there will never be any damages to the steel even under the worst conditions (For example a rigid installation and multiple corner/edge shots with the most damaging bullet option). Even then seems like overkill but may put it closer to reality.

 

[6.5SH]

Two different sites and their testing results, as to .338 LM, can have some wildly different remaining energy depending on the projectile.

 

[Garvey]

My shooting pard and I will be setting 3/8" mild steel at 2000 yards and working closer to it. with a .300 Norma Mag. It will be a few weeks, but I will certainly post what we learned.

 

[Matthew488]

Yea, definitely can't use it at 1k, but 1760 and it should not go through.....


I haven't read the thread, but the chart link you put in doesn't seem correct. For all practical purposes, you do not need larger than 3/8 AR500 for 338lm and according to that chart you would need 5/8" for everything until basically long range. You can tell it is going to be wrong by even putting the 338lm in the same category as the 50bmg, when it is worlds apart as far as tearing metal apart. I use 3/4" ar500 for closer range 50bmg and 1/2" at medium range and that is enough.

It seems like you agree with my interpretation, since you said: "1/4" AR400 is good for 2500 fps and 1000 ft/lbs at the target.". Meanwhile they are saying ar400 that is 50% THICKER than that can only withstand 300 ft/lb.

My most charitable reading for the chart is they are giving ranges that will absolutely guarantee that there will never be any damages to the steel even under the worst conditions (For example a rigid installation and multiple corner/edge shots with the most damaging bullet option). Even then seems like overkill but may put it closer to reality.

I agree that it seems that chart is a bit overkill for the thickness requirement. 1/2" AR500 will hold up to 50bmg unless you're using AP ammo. And I've seen a friend shoot his 300wm at 1/4" AR500 at 250 yards with only slight dents.
Granted that chart is put out by a vendor who's goal is to make money, and selling you a thicker than necessary plate both adds to the price and minimizes the chance of you damaging it.

 

[lash]

A further data pint or two from my experiences while providing my own and maintaining club steel for about 7 years. We ran 3/8” AR500 targets all the way out to 1000 yards (1200y on occasion). We allowed everything but 50 bmg to shoot at it with a special limit of minimal impacts closer than 800y from 375 CT. All of those targets took everything that we shot at them with only minor denting on the 800-900 yard targets from the 375s. This after hundreds to literally thousands of rounds on the targets.

Take it for what it’s worth, but I even allowed the 300wm and the 338lm guys to shoot my 1/2” AR x 4” popper at 210 yards in certain stages we would run. It did take a hammering from the heavies, but that same target is still in use today, albeit with a lot of edge chipping and one replaced return spring later. Again, thousands of rounds on it.

 

[Garvey]

A further data pint or two from my experiences while providing my own and maintaining club steel for about 7 years. We ran 3/8” AR500 targets all the way out to 1000 yards (1200y on occasion). We allowed everything but 50 bmg to shoot at it with a special limit of minimal impacts closer than 800y from 375 CT. All of those targets took everything that we shot at them with only minor denting on the 800-900 yard targets from the 375s. This after hundreds to literally thousands of rounds on the targets.

Take it for what it’s worth, but I even allowed the 300wm and the 338lm guys to shoot my 1/2” AR x 4” popper at 210 yards in certain stages we would run. It did take a hammering from the heavies, but that same target is still in use today, albeit with a lot of edge chipping and one replaced return spring later. Again, thousands of rounds on it.

In my experience on my range at home. Thousands of rounds fired, for going on 8 years. Speed is what kills steel. I can ruin 1/2" AR-500 with .22-250, .223, .223 A.I. and several 6mm. Energy hasn't hurt the steel, but it has ripped it off the fire hose it's hanging from. I've allowed as large as .338 LM 500 to 800 yards on 1/2" AR-500. The only damage is 600 is slightly concave, and it ain't much. These are 2 MOA steel.

I've got 1 MOA, 1" AR-400 a welder bud gave to me. Edge chips is all it has for damage.

Swinging is key, but even swinging steel will get shot through with high speed.

Last week, I hit the 2 MOA steel at 700 and 800 with the .300 Norma Mag. Of course it is fine. But, if I can get away with mild steel past 1000, I will. Gotta shoot it to find out.

 

[Matthew488]

In my experience on my range at home. Thousands of rounds fired, for going on 8 years. Speed is what kills steel. I can ruin 1/2" AR-500 with .22-250, .223, .223 A.I. and several 6mm. Energy hasn't hurt the steel, but it has ripped it off the fire hose it's hanging from. I've allowed as large as .338 LM 500 to 800 yards on 1/2" AR-500. The only damage is 600 is slightly concave, and it ain't much. These are 2 MOA steel.

I've got 1 MOA, 1" AR-400 a welder bud gave to me. Edge chips is all it has for damage.

Swinging is key, but even swinging steel will get shot through with high speed.

Last week, I hit the 2 MOA steel at 700 and 800 with the .300 Norma Mag. Of course it is fine. But, if I can get away with mild steel past 1000, I will. Gotta shoot it to find out.

Very true. My 204 Ruger will destroy AR500 inside of 400 yards