Suppressors Minimum length for suppressed 223?

HiCapMag

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Is there a generally accepted minimum length for a 223 if you are going to let it wear a suppressor?

For instance is it a really bad idea to put a can on a 7 inch pistol???

Thanks!
 

Hink

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

Companies make cans for pistols...and since the shorter the barrel, the slower the muzzle velocity, I don't think that there would be a problem with a 223 pistol and a can.
 

bohem

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

The pistol doesn't make the velocity, but at the exit point on a 7 inch barrel you're still in the highest pressure regions of the powder burn, this might be an issue.

There's some guys on here that have pressure vs. barrel position data during a firing cycle.

I'd suggest you consult some of that to get an idea if you're going to be putting a suppressor on the highest/hottest portion of the burn.
 

Outsydlooknin75

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

check with the manufacturer. Most manufacturers wont warranty a 556 can on anything shorter than a 10.5 inch barrel. A bullet doesnt always stabilize on the shorter lengths and could cause baffle strikes and such. Also the gas is brutal on a can when dropping below that length .... the blast really will eat up a can from the inside quickly with something that short and sustained fire.

Me personally I like an 11.5 on an Aar with a can.
 

Conqueror

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

I have a 10.5" and wouldn't go any shorter. 7" won't fragment anyway, so it's just an expensive range toy at that point. Ops Inc does warrantee their cans for 7.5" barrels if you really want to do it.
 

LSUbeatUby40

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 10.5" and wouldn't go any shorter. 7" won't fragment anyway, so it's just an expensive range toy at that point. Ops Inc does warrantee their cans for 7.5" barrels if you really want to do it. </div></div>

This...
 

titleiiredneck

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 10.5" and wouldn't go any shorter. 7" won't fragment anyway, so it's just an expensive range toy at that point. Ops Inc does warrantee their cans for 7.5" barrels if you really want to do it. </div></div>

10.5 is good anything under will cause extreme pressure in the can"depending on the model of the can", although 20" is optimal for the best sound suppression out of 223 and 308.
 

Conqueror

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

Define "optimal" suppression. Overall SPL tends to drop with length, so 24" will probably be substantially quieter than 20" in either caliber. And many silencers use pressure-driven designs that actually deliver higher NSRs on shorter barrels despite the higher overall SPL, so that would be another way to measure "best" suppression. Either way I'm curious about your 20" figure.
 

titleiiredneck

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

The way swr explained it to me was that 175bh ammo was just as quiet out of his bolt guns with 20" tubes as ones with 24". his explanation was that the same amount of powder was burned creating similar pressure/muzzle blast. He also stated that 223 was the same way sans varmit ammunition . but hey my 308 can on my 223 is more quiet than my 223 can, so go figure!
eek.gif
 

Conqueror

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

I'll agree that once the powder has all been burned, then the amount of powder burned won't change with additional length. But it's totally false to say that the muzzle pressure doesn't change. With every bit of forward travel by the bullet, the space behind it grows, and by the laws of thermodynamics the pressure <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> drop inside the barrel.
 

titleiiredneck

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll agree that once the powder has all been burned, then the amount of powder burned won't change with additional length. But it's totally false to say that the muzzle pressure doesn't change. With every bit of forward travel by the bullet, the space behind it grows, and by the laws of thermodynamics the pressure <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> drop inside the barrel. </div></div>

Oh I agree, but you also have to think that 4" of tube will not create a real noticeable difference in db that a human can hear. however, it may also increase velocity which will raise noise levels. But in reality it mostly depends on the load, since this is why subsonic is always the same between a 10" and a 16 " for example unless the velocity increases past subsonic levels with the longer tube.
 

Conqueror

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

Velocity doesn't have much to do with sound other than sonic crack, but once you're supersonic, extra velocity doesn't add substantially to the noise. Paulson's first book has a good figure showing that. I disagree that the 4" won't be noticeable. Anyone who's shot a suppressed AR with varying barrel lengths will likely agree. I had my 5.56 can on a 26" AR for some time and it was substantially quieter than a 20" gun with the same silencer.
 

fast freddy

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

aac wont warranty a 556 can on any shorter barrel than 10.5. dont know how they would tell unless it does something specific to the baffles but thats what they told me
 

Arevalosocom

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

I went with a LWRC M6A2 with 12" barrel and AAC SPR/M4 can.

I feel it's the perfect balance of SBR and suppresion IMHO.
 

Delta Tactical

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

I just saw this post and thought i would comment.

Tactical Operations have been making cans for 18 years and have a US Patent on their design. They make them in stainless and in titanium. They are deployed by many agencies including LA County SEB who deploy them with great results and are more than happy with the results.

Some cans produce a high tone frequency which I have heard can cause inner ear damage with prolonged use where as TacOps cans produce low tone frequencies.

TacOps make cans in a 4", 6.5" and 9".

The 4" model is actually quieter than the Surefire's larger can which i think may be around 7".

TacOps have achieved the results by changing around the internals on the 4" and you can actually rest the rifle on your shooting partners shoulder and shoot it without causing discomfort or ear damage.

They are designed to work on all barrel lengths including 10" 11" 14.5" and 20" it doesnt matter it will still be quiet.

Here are some pics:

CQBCan.jpg


CanEntry.jpg


Can.jpg
 

Conqueror

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chubby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TacOps have achieved the results by changing around the internals on the 4" and you can actually rest the rifle on your shooting partners shoulder and shoot it without causing discomfort or ear damage.</div></div>
No offense, but I will believe that when I see some objective sound meter data. OPS INC and SRT make some of the quietest suppressors around, and their small 5.56 silencers meter WAY over the 140dB OSHA cutoff for hearing safety, and that's measured 39 inches left of the muzzle. I have serious doubts that TacOps makes a 4" silencer that will not damage the hearing of someone holding their ear 6" from the end of the can.
 

Delta Tactical

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chubby</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TacOps have achieved the results by changing around the internals on the 4" and you can actually rest the rifle on your shooting partners shoulder and shoot it without causing discomfort or ear damage.</div></div>
No offense, but I will believe that when I see some objective sound meter data. OPS INC and SRT make some of the quietest suppressors around, and their small 5.56 silencers meter WAY over the 140dB OSHA cutoff for hearing safety, and that's measured 39 inches left of the muzzle. I have serious doubts that TacOps makes a 4" silencer that will not damage the hearing of someone holding their ear 6" from the end of the can. </div></div>

None taken, this is a forum for discussion and opinion and everyone is entitled so no worries.

If you are LE and can get a letter on letter head signed off by your Captain, you can fax it to TacOps and they will give you a can to T&E for 30 days with no obligation to purchase.

You will also receive a list of references from many different agencies, all who use the TacOps CQB can. You are more than welcome to call them and get their complete and unedited opinion from them direct.

All those agencies tested the TacOps can side by side with 5 or 6 other manufactures in the industry and found TacOps to be superior due to the reduction in noise offered by TacOps through their design and low tone frequency and due to its compactness for the urban environmnet. All have validated the effectiveness of the can and if you get one for T&E you can validate it yourself.

Also, the blow back from the TacOps can is less than that offered by other leading manufactures, its not like a smoke grenade coming from the breach.
 

Chuck Anderson

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

I noted a degradation in accuracy on my 7.5 inch suppressed upper on my M-16. As in 2-3 foot groups at 25 yards. Stopped shooting and checked the gun out when I got home. Figured something was wrong when I started to unscrew the can and bits of metal started falling out. Copper, lead, I'm guessing parts of the baffles that were eroded and damaged. At first I thought the holes looked about right till I remembered it was a .223 can and not a .308. The holes are way blown out. The hole inside of the can looks rusted like it was buried in the back yard. I'm thinking no more can on the 7.5. It was a YHM Phantom on a DPMS 7.5 inch barrel. I've shot PMC, Federal and Atlanta Arms and Ammo out of the gun. No foreign corrosive ammo.
 

Conqueror

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Re: Minimum length for suppressed 223?

Chubby - Every major silencer manufacturer has a long list of agencies using their products. Doesn't mean that the data is there. A lot of factors go into an agency's decision to buy a given silencer (price, delivery time, quantity needed, adaptability to equipment already in use, sound performance, size, weight, etc). I am not disagreeing that their suppressor may be in use by numerous agencies. I am only debating your statement that they are hearing-safe at a range of ~6-8" from the muzzle. I will have to see sound meter data to believe that, not a list of agencies who probably have not ever actually metered the silencer with a B&K 2209.