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Rifle Scopes Minox ZP5 5-25x56 - MR4 Reticle

C

Cold_Bore_88

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Jul 13, 2013
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The Woodlands, TX
#1
I am in the market for a new 5-25 and have the Kahles, NF ATACR, and Minox on my radar.

What’s the word on the Minox ZP5? I have seen a couple at local matches and hear nothing but good things. I really like the MR4 reticle and the glass is superb.

Anything I should know about? Good, bad, indifferent?

Hard to drop 3100 on a scope that you don’t see or hear much about.
 
#4
Cold_Bore_88 said:
I am in the market for a new 5-25 and have the Kahles, NF ATACR, and Minox on my radar.

What’s the word on the Minox ZP5? I have seen a couple at local matches and hear nothing but good things. I really like the MR4 reticle and the glass is superb.

Anything I should know about? Good, bad, indifferent?

Hard to drop 3100 on a scope that you don’t see or hear much about.
Click to expand...

We'd be happy to answer any questions you have regarding the Minox ZP5 at 916-670-1103 :)
 
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#5
I own one, as do many other hide members. There were some early turret issues and some have complained about poor QC, I shot with a friend this weekend who's own 8 ZP5's and he says they've all been stellar performers. You can read hk dave's review here:
www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Tangent Theta 5-25 v Minox 5-25 v Nightforce 7-35 v Schmidt & Bender 5-25 v Vortex 4.5-27

Tangent Theta TT525P 5-25x56mm vs Minox ZP5 TAC 5-25x56mm vs Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56mm F1 vs Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56mm vs Schmidt Bender PMII 5-26x56mm L/P DT This review and comparison has been a long time coming. It’s essentially the comparison I’ve always wished someone did in an...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

And you can read my review here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ht-tactical-scope-evaluation-part-ii.6255263/

I have used a lot of scopes over the years, some were stinkers I wouldn't pay half the price for, others performed to their price point and some punched above their weight class with regard to price/optical performance. The ZP5 5-25x56 reigns as the best scope I've ever looked through, but the ZCO will give it a run for its money and of course Tangent Theta if you can foot the bill.

ILya just did a video review of high end scopes here - http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2567

You should really pick the reticle that you think you'll like the most between these scopes. I have a Kahles K318i with SKMR3 and the ZP5 with MR4, I like the MR4 better, but I think I like the thickness of the ZCO MPCT most of all, the problem is I do not like the solid stadia lines in the Christmas tree of the SKMR/MPCT reticles and much prefer the dots incorporated by the MR4, I like the Mil-C and Mil-XT reticles in design but have yet to see one so can't help you with real world experience. Turrets are more personal preference and I've never had an issue with the ZP5 turrets. Overall, I think the ZP5 represents the best value in the $3k scope class and optically challenges the best of the best. In ILya's review above I think he ranks the scopes per his preference and he says TT > ZCO > ZP5 > Schmidt and I have no issue with his evaluation, I have yet to experience a ZC527 compared to the ZP5 but based on my brief experience with a ZC420 I have a feeling the ZC527 is nothing short of amazing. It's a few hundred dollars more than the others, but the ZCO ZC527 should be on your radar if you like the reticles.

I would also highly recommend you call CS Tactical above and talk with Richard or Mike if he's available, these guys know their stuff and they will more than likely beat any price you've been quoted, they are great to work with.
 
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#6
wjm308 said:
I own one, as do many other hide members. There were some early turret issues and some have complained about poor QC, I shot with a friend this weekend who's own 8 ZP5's and he says they've all been stellar performers. You can read hk dave's review here:
www.snipershide.com

Rifle Scopes - Tangent Theta 5-25 v Minox 5-25 v Nightforce 7-35 v Schmidt & Bender 5-25 v Vortex 4.5-27

Tangent Theta TT525P 5-25x56mm vs Minox ZP5 TAC 5-25x56mm vs Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56mm F1 vs Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56mm vs Schmidt Bender PMII 5-26x56mm L/P DT This review and comparison has been a long time coming. It’s essentially the comparison I’ve always wished someone did in an...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

And you can read my review here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ht-tactical-scope-evaluation-part-ii.6255263/

I have used a lot of scopes over the years, some were stinkers I wouldn't pay half the price for, others performed to their price point and some punched above their weight class with regard to price/optical performance. The ZP5 5-25x56 reigns as the best scope I've ever looked through, but the ZCO will give it a run for its money and of course Tangent Theta if you can foot the bill.

ILya just did a video review of high end scopes here - http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2567

You should really pick the reticle that you think you'll like the most between these scopes. I have a Kahles K318i with SKMR3 and the ZP5 with MR4, I like the MR4 better, but I think I like the thickness of the ZCO MPCT most of all, the problem is I do not like the solid stadia lines in the Christmas tree of the SKMR/MPCT reticles and much prefer the dots incorporated by the MR4, I like the Mil-C and Mil-XT reticles in design but have yet to see one so can't help you with real world experience. Turrets are more personal preference and I've never had an issue with the ZP5 turrets. Overall, I think the ZP5 represents the best value in the $3k scope class and optically challenges the best of the best. In ILya's review above I think he ranks the scopes per his preference and he says TT > ZCO > ZP5 > Schmidt and I have no issue with his evaluation, I have yet to experience a ZC527 compared to the ZP5 but based on my brief experience with a ZC420 I have a feeling the ZC527 is nothing short of amazing. It's a few hundred dollars more than the others, but the ZCO ZC527 should be on your radar if you like the reticles.

I would also highly recommend you call CS Tactical above and talk with Richard or Mike if he's available, these guys know their stuff and they will more than likely beat any price you've been quoted, they are great to work with.
Click to expand...

The ZCO was on my list for a while and will probably come back in the mix as viable a option. Reticle isn’t my fav but is an improvement over some others. I also didn’t want to screw with a new tube size (dumb reason but true).
 
#7
I wrote a review of the ZP5 I had (link here). I moved from a K525 SKMR3 to the ZP5 525 MR4 and preferred the ZP5 to the Kahles.

No matter where you fall on the warranty debate, you cant help overlook it.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy from a SH reputable dealer like @CSTactical or @gr8fuldoug. If going the PX route I think you are taking your chances if the warranty has already been claimed or is within the filing of the warranty.
 
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#8
If $3k+ is your budget, I’d look into a zcomp or tangent theta depending on which reticle you like.

Not to hurt vendor sales, but with the used pricing, no way I’d spend $3k on a minox or kahles (I’ve owned both and still have a kahles for my vudoo).

They are good optics, but when you can get a new zcomp for 3600 and New and used tangents for 32-4k depending on reticle, then the minox and kahles don’t warrant $3k.
 
#9
Dthomas3523 said:
If $3k+ is your budget, I’d look into a zcomp or tangent theta depending on which reticle you like.

Not to hurt vendor sales, but with the used pricing, no way I’d spend $3k on a minox or kahles (I’ve owned both and still have a kahles for my vudoo).

They are good optics, but when you can get a new zcomp for 3600 and New and used tangents for 32-4k depending on reticle, then the minox and kahles don’t warrant $3k.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree :D At least on the Minox ZP5
 
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#10
wjm308 said:
Agree to disagree :D At least on the Minox ZP5
Click to expand...

Minox can be found far cheaper than $3100 is my point.

It also doesn’t feature locking turrets, 25m parallax, red/green illumination, tooless re-zero etc etc etc.

It has good glass and a good reticle. While that’s awesome, it ain’t $3100 awesome.
 
#11
Dthomas3523 said:
Minox can be found far cheaper than $3100 is my point.

It also doesn’t feature locking turrets, 25m parallax, red/green illumination, tooless re-zero etc etc etc.

It has good glass and a good reticle. While that’s awesome, it ain’t $3100 awesome.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying, in all fairness some of those things don't matter as much to some, but I hear what you're saying. That being said, I don't think any of these scopes should cost as much as they do, and yet I find myself purchasing them :eek::sick::ROFLMAO:
 
#13
I PM'd the OP about my experience, but I thought I would post it here as well.

I have one of the latest generation white box scopes. I traded for it with another SH member early this year. I used it and absolutely loved it. The reticle is awesome, the glass is 2nd to none, the parallax is incredibly forgiving. You can set it in the mid range and have almost no parallax from 300 to 900 yards. I could see trace very good. The turret feel is excellent. I have owned Kahles, Nightforce, Hensoldt, and other cheaper brands as well so I have some idea of what I like and don't like. I also have some idea of what to expect in a scope of this price.

In April I noticed a problem while trying to check zero. I checked zero, dialed up for an 840 yard target, then dialed back down and checked zero again. My zero seemed to be ~1 MOA high after dialing back down. I repeated this more than once and I kept noticing problems either hitting with known good dope at long distance or I had problems up close. I took the scope off and put it on my 40 pound scope testing stand. I found that the scope would lose .2 or .3 clicks while dialing up to 15 mils. When dialing back down the scope would not gain all the clicks back so the scope would be .2 or .3 mils high still. If I dialed past zero and then back to zero the zero was restored. This scope had been babied since it was in my care and had no signs of any kind of abuse from the previous owner.


I called Blazer USA. They didn't ask me about purchase location or warranty or anything. They told me to send it in to them. I sent it to them the last week of April, 2019. I received an email from them saying they received it, I received another email, a couple weeks later saying it made it to Germany. I received an email earlier this week saying it was back from Germany at Blazer USA. I received the scope back today (7/17/19). They included a nice letter listing the work done (picture attached). I'll test it again myself and make sure it is fixed.

The scope is awesome. If it tracks correctly it is as good as they get.
 

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#15
To follow up on the above post. I got home this afternoon and put the scope on the tracking test stand. The problem I previously had is gone and it seems to track perfectly.

Now for the other half of the story. While I was without it, I decided to try and simplify my scopes by just going to one brand with one reticle. I already have 2 Nightforce ATACR's so I'm going to stick with them. The Minox glass may be better, but I have gotten over trying to chase alpha glass and I just want simplicity. I'm going to sell or trade the Minox.
 
#16
Dthomas3523 said:
Minox can be found far cheaper than $3100 is my point.

It also doesn’t feature locking turrets, 25m parallax, red/green illumination, tooless re-zero etc etc etc.

It has good glass and a good reticle. While that’s awesome, it ain’t $3100 awesome.
Click to expand...


I hear ya, but tend to agree with wjm308. These are nice features but not required for me.

I historically shoot S&B DTs. They don’t have any of that. I tend to lean towards the glass, function and reticle when looking at scopes. I would take a good clear reticle and reliable tracking over other features. Keep it simple stupid. Haha! Appreciate your feedback though.

The scope market is so saturated right now.
 
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#23
Cold_Bore_88 said:
I hear ya, but tend to agree with wjm308. These are nice features but not required for me.

I historically shoot S&B DTs. They don’t have any of that. I tend to lean towards the glass, function and reticle when looking at scopes. I would take a good clear reticle and reliable tracking over other features. Keep it simple stupid. Haha! Appreciate your feedback though.

The scope market is so saturated right now.
Click to expand...

Yes, but when you can get as good or better glass with more features, the one without the features no longer belongs in that price bracket.
 
#25
blbennett1288 said:
Black box denotes GenI and white box GenII. At least that is what is thought at this time, until someone refutes that. I had a GenII and it was a 6XX serial number.
Click to expand...
I have the black box ZP5 5-25x56 but was told it was later generation, the clicks and the 2nd rev resistance is definitely not as bad as what I heard about the original release. I may get a chance this week to test turrets against the white box version, will try and remember to do so.
 
#27
blbennett1288 said:
Black box denotes GenI and white box GenII. At least that is what is thought at this time, until someone refutes that. I had a GenII and it was a 6XX serial number.
Click to expand...

My ZP5 came in a black box. It’s the same one I compared to my TT.

Maybe I got lucky? I honestly can’t tell the difference between it and my TT.
 
#31
I just contacted Minox in Texas and they informed me there is no Gen 1 or Gen2. This was from customer service. They stated they updated the turrets but was not a different scope.
 
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#33
cro789 said:
Are the ZPs as tough as say s&b or kahles
Click to expand...
Neither the Kahles nor the Schmidt are particularly tough scopes. I know a lot of S&B that have had to go back for repair. I have watched a Minox take a header onto concrete and keep shooting. They are not fragile in my experience.

The major change on the "White Box" is a slightly different parallax. While some prefer this, the "Black Box" parallax is similar to my Premiers, with basically 2 settings, close and far. Some of us prefer this for matches because damn near everything is in focus at all distances. Very fast and no fiddling.
 
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#34
delfuego said:
Neither the Kahles nor the Schmidt are particularly tough scopes. I know a lot of S&B that have had to go back for repair. I have watched a Minox take a header onto concrete and keep shooting. They are not fragile in my experience.

The major change on the "White Box" is a slightly different parallax. While some prefer this, the "Black Box" parallax is similar to my Premiers, with basically 2 settings, close and far. Some of us prefer this for matches because damn near everything is in focus at all distances. Very fast and no fiddling.
Click to expand...

This is the first I’ve ever heard of this. How interesting.
 
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#35
delfuego said:
The major change on the "White Box" is a slightly different parallax. While some prefer this, the "Black Box" parallax is similar to my Premiers, with basically 2 settings, close and far. Some of us prefer this for matches because damn near everything is in focus at all distances. Very fast and no fiddling.
Click to expand...

Sounds exactly like my white box ZP5 parallax
 
#36
At the range now and you are absolutely correct. Close and then far. I am loving this scope. My have to sell my Kahles and get a new one. Tracking is spot on with the clicks at.363 just can’t complain.
 
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#37
My ZP5 is white box and the transition to 2nd rev is pretty stiff. I'm looking to get another one. If i end up keeping it over the ATACR. I suspect i will despite liking the Mil-C/Mil-XT more than the MR4 i don't think i'm willing to give up the IQ that Minox offers. I also despise the rotating ocular on the NF.
 
#38
5RWill said:
My ZP5 is white box and the transition to 2nd rev is pretty stiff. I'm looking to get another one. If i end up keeping it over the ATACR. I suspect i will despite liking the Mil-C/Mil-XT more than the MR4 i don't think i'm willing to give up the IQ that Minox offers. I also despise the rotating ocular on the NF.
Click to expand...

Only thing I liked on the ATACRs more was the turrets.

Link to my review with turret videos
 
#39
blbennett1288 said:
Only thing I liked on the ATACRs more was the turrets.
Click to expand...

That's about where i am also but i haven't adequately compared them just had them side by side. The ZP5 turrets are pretty good though. I think i'd like the Mil-XT more as far as reticles are concerned. I just like the opposing hashes NF has on the vertical and horizontal.
 
#40
5RWill said:
That's about where i am also but i haven't adequately compared them just had them side by side. The ZP5 turrets are pretty good though. I think i'd like the Mil-XT more as far as reticles are concerned. I just like the opposing hashes NF has on the vertical and horizontal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the turrets are good, but not something that is a highlight. I 100% agree, I felt slower with the MR4 subtensions since they do not alternate like the SKMR/MIL-C
 
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#41
blbennett1288 said:
Yeah, the turrets are good, but not something that is a highlight. I 100% agree, I felt slower with the MR4 subtensions since they do not alternate like the SKMR/MIL-C
Click to expand...
You're talking about the vertical in the Christmas tree right, so this would only affect you when holding for elevation - something I rarely do but would like to practice more at, so was hoping you could elaborate on why this is "quicker".
 
#42
wjm308 said:
You're talking about the vertical in the Christmas tree right, so this would only affect you when holding for elevation - something I rarely do but would like to practice more at, so was hoping you could elaborate on why this is "quicker".
Click to expand...

No I am talking about the horizontal. All the windage subtensions are below the main horizontal. This is not like the MIL-c or SKMR which alternates above/below so you can easily know which one you are on and not have to count.
 
#43
I also like the MR4 Christmas tree reticle better than the Mil-C, but that’s what I run in my F1 ATACR. The holdup for me on the Minox was the resistance when you go to the second rev. That “feature” may not matter as much to others though.
 
#46
wjm308 said:
I see, you're talking about something like this
View attachment 7116389
Click to expand...

Nah, like 0.2mil below horizontal, 0.4mil above horizontal, 0.6mil above horizontal, 0.8mil below horizontal. If you do it how they did it now I think you need to have a 0.5mil indicator.

Any of the below is what I am talking about. Staggered, alternating, whatever, just something to differentiate the 0.2mil subtensions

7116394
7116396
 
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#47
blbennett1288 said:
Nah, like 0.2mil below horizontal, 0.4mil above horizontal, 0.6mil above horizontal, 0.8mil below horizontal. If you do it how they did it now I think you need to have a 0.5mil indicator.

Any of the below is what I am talking about. Staggered, alternating, whatever, just something to differentiate the 0.2mil subtensions

View attachment 7116394View attachment 7116396
Click to expand...
Roger that, now I'm following you, staggering the actual tick marks, yes, there is a benefit to doing it that way I agree.
 
#48
delfuego said:
Neither the Kahles nor the Schmidt are particularly tough scopes. I know a lot of S&B that have had to go back for repair. I have watched a Minox take a header onto concrete and keep shooting. They are not fragile in my experience.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree, at least in reference to the S&B. I can say with confidence that the S&B is one of the more durable scopes out there. Do they have to be repaired? Yes. Are there one or two scopes that may be more durable? Yes. The simple fact is that S&B probably has more real world durability experience than any other scope. When scope designers try to create a “new” scope, they compare it to an S&B. There is a reason they are the gold standard.

I don’t mean to sound like a fan boy. On the contrary, I am looking at getting a new scope and not considering a S&B (I currently own 4 PMIIs). They would be my scope of choice for hard field use. Hands down. Reliability, tracking, clarity, etc.

I think the reticle choice with S&B is lacking and there are better choices out there for shooting matches.

I dont want to start a keyboard war. Just my experience and opinion.
 
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#49
Cold_Bore_88 said:
I respectfully disagree, at least in reference to the S&B. I can say with confidence that the S&B is one of the more durable scopes out there. Do they have to be repaired? Yes. Are there one or two scopes that may be more durable? Yes. The simple fact is that S&B probably has more real world durability experience than any other scope. When scope designers try to create a “new” scope, they compare it to an S&B. There is a reason they are the gold standard.

I don’t mean to sound like a fan boy. On the contrary, I am looking at getting a new scope and not considering a S&B (I currently own 4 PMIIs). They would be my scope of choice for hard field use. Hands down. Reliability, tracking, clarity, etc.

I think the reticle choice with S&B is lacking and there are better choices out there for shooting matches.

I dont want to start a keyboard war. Just my experience and opinion.
Click to expand...

Yeah I stayed away from that grenade on purpose, but here we go...

NF and S&B come to mind for me when it comes to durability.
 
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