Mk5 HD 5-25 PR2 vs Kahles 6-24i SKMR3

[Kanwhitetails]

Curious to see what I can learn here. They seem very similar to me. It may be that the Kahles is slightly more blue tinted, but otherwise I have a hard time between them.

I'm looking for opinions on both sides; For those that have used both, what would you pick?

They both feel about the same to me in terms of robust-ness. Is this reality, or am I assuming too much?

Hows the service from Kahles? Right now, this is the only thing making me hesitant to give the Kahles a ride home.

 

[Birddog6424]

Curious to see what I can learn here. They seem very similar to me. It may be that the Kahles is slightly more blue tinted, but otherwise I have a hard time between them.

I'm looking for opinions on both sides; For those that have used both, what would you pick?

They both feel about the same to me in terms of robust-ness. Is this reality, or am I assuming too much?

Hows the service from Kahles? Right now, this is the only thing making me hesitant to give the Kahles a ride home.

I like the glass in the Kahles a little better, and the eyebox. The MK5 looks kinda "tunnel'ish" to me.

But both are very good optics, and either would treat you great.

 

[CSTactical]

Curious to see what I can learn here. They seem very similar to me. It may be that the Kahles is slightly more blue tinted, but otherwise I have a hard time between them.

I'm looking for opinions on both sides; For those that have used both, what would you pick?

They both feel about the same to me in terms of robust-ness. Is this reality, or am I assuming too much?

Hows the service from Kahles? Right now, this is the only thing making me hesitant to give the Kahles a ride home.

We would be happy to help you find the best option for you, please give us a call at 916-670-1103

 

[longgunJR]

Of those 2 I'd go with the Mk5 hands down, I prefer the reticle and overall feel of the Leopold.

 

[SepticDeath]

Just ran my mark 5 pr2 recticle in a 22 long range match last weekend and placed 3rd in my division. Sorry no experience with Khales but I highly doubt you would be disappointed with the Leupold.

 

[GUNNER10]

No experience with Khales, only NF and Leupold. With that being said, Khales is very well regarded, and from those that have both shot both it seems to be that they tend to favor the khales slightly.

Personally i can believe this but since I am eligible for the Leopold Mil program, unless a scope is mind blowingly better, I am good with my Mk5's. There is major point of diminishing returns with optics

 

[Kanwhitetails]

Thanks to all of you for input.

Having now seen and held (or used) both, it's hard to determine which is the better of the two.

Neither feel exceptionally beefy, and neither are either of them as heavy as a result.

I owned a Leupold Mk5 with the H59, I found that reticle too busy for my taste. I admired how light it was, and was impressed with the clarity, especially at dusk or in low light. I don't have any low light observation experience with the Kahles. I'd be willing to bet they're similar, with the warmer tint of the Leup taking the advantage in this regard. As I don't plan on using the scope in a hunting situation, that's not as much of an issue. However, the best laid plans of mice and men...

I loved the Leupold turrets, and honestly wasn't as impressed with the Kahles. Not that they were not good on the Kahles; They felt slightly less defined, click to click. The zero stop Leupold has built on the Mark5s is pretty solid too. However, the reports are that the Kahles track, they return to zero, and they are well respected. Again, no real help in the long run toward making the decision easier.

The SKMR3 reticle looks to be a thinner line (or at least it looks that way to my eyes, I was blown away with how thin the reticle lines are in the SKMR3).

Both have an amazing amount of supporters, they both appear to be a known-value.

So far my conclusion is that if I get either one I'll be happy. That's good to hear. I hope it means I've learned enough to know what I should be trying to look for at least.

@CSTactical, thanks for the offer.

 

[AznTactical]

I will be going Kahles soon. Didn't care for the 35mm tube (I have some spare 34mm rings sitting around) and HATED the capped windage. The offset windage zero marking was the biggest turn off though. Could never get my eyeballs in line with it.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Was just out shooting today with my Leupy MK5HD, Kahles, and ZCO. To me the kahles is slightly better than the leupy mk5, the mk5 to me has noticeable CA where colors of white look blue/purplish almost. I also get the MIL discount and the cost of the kahles over that discount isn’t worth it to me…. However….. the ZCO blows them both out of the water. It’s not even close

 

[dzander]

I own 2 Kahles 624I. Bought one on here two years ago used and one from CS tactical about a year ago. Neither has ever needed any service or failed me. They both track excellent. I can't say that with a Leopold I purchased but it was 25 years ago. Leopold had to rebuild the erector on a 6.5 x 20 I have. I'm very happy with the SKMR3 Reticle and the Left side windage adjustment. Kind of depends what your going to do with it , Hunt, PRS, Long range.. Look thru and try both if you can, pick the reticle you like the best.

 

[Mxridr]

The kahles is very solid. Never had a problem.

 

[GUNNER10]

Was just out shooting today with my Leupy MK5HD, Kahles, and ZCO. To me the kahles is slightly better than the leupy mk5, the mk5 to me has noticeable CA where colors of white look blue/purplish almost. I also get the MIL discount and the cost of the kahles over that discount isn’t worth it to me…. However….. the ZCO blows them both out of the water. It’s not even close

Zco should be good, they are practically double the price. I can appreciate the engineering that goes into their stuff but for the type of shooting i do, a NF or Mk5 is fine.

 

[AznTactical]

Who the hell brought ZCO into this conversation? It's like comparing a Lambo Ura suv to a Ford Explorer limited and Toyota 4runner.

 

[Kanwhitetails]

Zco should be good, they are practically double the price. I can appreciate the engineering that goes into their stuff but for the type of shooting i do, a NF or Mk5 is fine.

I'm glad you said it. I was just going to say that I can get the Kahles for less than half of what I can get the ZCO for, and the Leupold for even less.

Sure, it's better. I'd say that I think TTs are better than ZCO, but again, that's another conversation all together.

Being that this is going to be an entry level PRS competition rifle, it's more than good enough. I've never dropped a shot I thought was due to CA, but I can see how better glass is advantageous if you're chasing the final points of every match, you can place in the top ten regularly, and you shoot 6-15k rounds a year in matches and practice. I can do none of those things, currently. Right now, it's going to be used to shoot-and-learn, a few club matches, and maybe one two day match a year.

I can watch my trace all day long, but if I don't know why I'm not hitting the target, or because I don't practice enough, having the best glass on the planet is overkill to say the least.

Anyone out there think the two I'm interested in wouldn't do this job with honors?

 

[GUNNER10]

I'm glad you said it. I was just going to say that I can get the Kahles for less than half of what I can get the ZCO for, and the Leupold for even less.

Sure, it's better. I'd say that I think TTs are better than ZCO, but again, that's another conversation all together.

Being that this is going to be an entry level PRS competition rifle, it's more than good enough. I've never dropped a shot I thought was due to CA, but I can see how better glass is advantageous if you're chasing the final points of every match, you can place in the top ten regularly, and you shoot 6-15k rounds a year in matches and practice. I can do none of those things, currently. Right now, it's going to be used to shoot-and-learn, a few club matches, and maybe one two day match a year.

I can watch my trace all day long, but if I don't know why I'm not hitting the target, or because I don't practice enough, having the best glass on the planet is overkill to say the least.

Anyone out there think the two I'm interested in wouldn't do this job with honors?

Definitely,

Of the two your looking at, I would really let it come down to who has the recticle that works better for your use case. You could hand most of the upper tier prs guys a super sniper and they would probably eat most peoples lunch. The biggest thing is getting out to shoot and figuring what works for you

 

[ACW39]

Both are good choices and do the job you’re setting out to accomplish, but I’d go with the Kahles if it was me. Make sure whichever one you go with that you like the reticle and can see yourself making calls and or holdovers using it.

 

[JustSendit]

Up front: I would go mark5.

Glass to glass, most people do not conduct an objective through test. More of a one time: that target looks a little clearer, type of test. I tend to believe different scopes in the same price realm will perform similarly and the real differences would be noted under different lighting conditions. So for instance, I placed a target with bold red lines from 5in wide to 1in, in 1/2in increments 500m. I compared the mk5 to the razor II, in the morning, the razor was getting more clarity and tighter edges than then the mk5, but in the afternoon I felt the mk5 was the better of the two. Overall, I was sorta of splitting hairs. Certainly I would have an expectation that a zco for instance would be better.

I understand that the vortex isn’t the scope at hand. Just making a point that I think there’s a lot to which glass is better, and sometimes it definitely depends.

That being said, it’s the features you have to consider most, and reticles. I really like the PR2 reticle for PRS competition, generally for known distance matches. It’s got what I need and not a lot of extra. I like leupolds zero stop, as in it sets itself. The elevation turret I am a fan of how it locks, and the methods it tells me how many times past 0 I I’ve gone. The eye box is forgiving, to a point, it’s not the best which I believe the Razor is, but it’s good. I love the weight, I hate super heavy scopes, they just take away some adaptability from the user. The mk5 5-25 is very light weight! Price, cannot complain about that. I prefer the 5-25 to the 7-35, I think the 7-35 tunnels a bit. Setting a zero in general is very simple on the mk5, 3 bolts, move to 0, done. I like that simplicity.

My complaints, the parallax is a little more sensitive than say the NF atacr. Definitely find myself tuning that a little more than on other scopes. I do not like the windage 0 line, it’s a small complaint but it’s annoying. However, I almost never dial winds so I don’t usually have to deal with that for very long. 35mm tube, only annoying because I had to acquire new rings, 34mm just seemed so prevalent. So I had to find a new scope level too.

I wish I had some feedback on Khales but hope my experience with the leupold helps. I like it for the price, it’s solid scope and the pr2 reticle is pretty good.

 

[SmartDonkey]

Very happy with my Mark5. In perfect shooting conditions it doesn't seem much different than lots of other scopes I have- but when conditions get less than ideal it starts to pull away.

And as far as the windage zero line.... that's all it is- a freakin line. If you don't like the location of it then get a fine point silver marker and draw another line where you want it and then zero to that point. Problem solved.

 

[Kanwhitetails]

Definitely,

Of the two your looking at, I would really let it come down to who has the recticle that works better for your use case. You could hand most of the upper tier prs guys a super sniper and they would probably eat most peoples lunch. The biggest thing is getting out to shoot and figuring what works for you

Absolutely. I find it almost off-putting how so many are so insistent on the "get this or your choice is suck" bandwagon, considering the point you've made so well here. I have to remember, that people are passionate about this stuff, so being insistent isn't always a bad thing - especially when you honestly believe in something, or know better.

I'm interested in learning. The glass needs to let me see, the turrets need to be accurate, reliable, and repeatable, and the scope's durability needs to be there. In both cases it looks like a winner.

Now, if I could just tell myself I like the blue tint of the Kahles better, I'd just go drop the coin and be done with it.

But I don't. The Luepold is likely going to get my dollars. As much as that could hurt the friend who's being more than generous with his offer of sale on the Kahles.

But I do prefer the SKMR3. Not by much, by about as much as the above debate... God didn't give me the decisive gift I guess.

 

[GUNNER10]

Absolutely. I find it almost off-putting how so many are so insistent on the "get this or your choice is suck" bandwagon, considering the point you've made so well here. I have to remember, that people are passionate about this stuff, so being insistent isn't always a bad thing - especially when you honestly believe in something, or know better.

I'm interested in learning. The glass needs to let me see, the turrets need to be accurate, reliable, and repeatable, and the scope's durability needs to be there. In both cases it looks like a winner.

Now, if I could just tell myself I like the blue tint of the Kahles better, I'd just go drop the coin and be done with it.

But I don't. The Luepold is likely going to get my dollars. As much as that could hurt the friend who's being more than generous with his offer of sale on the Kahles.

But I do prefer the SKMR3. Not by much, by about as much as the above debate... God didn't give me the decisive gift I guess.

Yeah,

That's the thing that tough with a lot of this stuff, and alot of these discussion are extension of Ford vs Chevy argument. People are tribal in nature and tend to way over think things.

I shoot Mk5's because because of their LE/MIL program. I will fully admit that I think that ATACR is a slightly better optic, but not a grand better optic and when I have bunch of rifles that need optics, Mk5's are fine. If NF improved their LE/MIL program, I would probably shoot them.

Started shooting on Mk4's, then transition to NSX's as they were a step up,
Then I think that leupold pulled ahead with their Mk6 and Mk8 Lines
Then i think that NF pulled ahead with their Beast and ATACR lines.
Then i think that Leupold has really closed the gap with the mk5 line.
Retail price to retail price, I would choose the ATACR, Under Mil Pricing Mk5 without hesitation.

What ever you get, shoot the piss out of it. All of this minute differences are not going to matter if you don't get out and shoot

 

[Th1nor]

Be more accurate to compare to the K525i not 624.
Both are great. It's more of a personal preference.

In Europe Kahles and Swarovski (same owners) have great service and go way beyond their warranty. Don't know in the US.

 

[Kanwhitetails]

Be more accurate to compare to the K525i not 624.
Both are great. It's more of a personal preference.

In Europe Kahles and Swarovski (same owners) have great service and go way beyond their warranty. Don't know in the US.

This is probably the main reason for the thread. I have to say the same. I know Leupold is on board with warranty at this level without too much hassle, the Kahles reports that I have seen are spotty at best, and on both sides of the good and bad experience fence. They seem on the surface to be similar, so if that is indeed the case I can eliminate it as far as a consideration for/against.

 

[dzander]

It would be interesting to know the number of scopes sold vs warrantee/returns for both manufacturers.

 

[Long Range 338]

So both scopes are kind of goofy compared to most of the offerings out there. The Leupold is 35mm, capped windage, and 12.5 mils per rev. The Kahles with the topside parallax and left side windage can mess with you if you’re in a hurry and use other style optics. Both are quality with great warranty so it comes down to personal preference. Personally I like the reticle options from Kahles better.

 

[HogsLife]

Curious to see what I can learn here. They seem very similar to me. It may be that the Kahles is slightly more blue tinted, but otherwise I have a hard time between them.

I'm looking for opinions on both sides; For those that have used both, what would you pick?

They both feel about the same to me in terms of robust-ness. Is this reality, or am I assuming too much?

Hows the service from Kahles? Right now, this is the only thing making me hesitant to give the Kahles a ride home.

I preferred my Khales 6-24 in every way. Glass great, I never saw any of the CA a lot of folks were talking about. Love the. SKMR line of reticles. Turrets feel stout and very tactile. Mag ring is Smoothy it’s a great optic imo. I actually preferred my Khales over NF and I’m a NF fan. Khales I felt was a better optic. YMMV

 

[dzander]

Just a FYI
The Kahles 624I can be had with right side windage if you prefer.

 

[Kanwhitetails]

Well, I picked up the Khales today.

Thanks for all the input, for all of your help. The opinions here are great, the experience shows.

The only thing that I find on my con list is that the warranty being limited at 10 years; whereas the L is lifetime. It aint much, but it's real. Even if the likelyhood is that I'll probably sell and upgrade before then, I'd be a liar to say it wasn't hard to overcome that tid bit.

I'm sure I won't look back.

Yea, right.

Now the wait for the action (ordered), stock (also ordered), and finding some Varget (I'm naturally late to the party - crap I'm screwed) come next.

 

[kthomas]

I have x3 Khales K624i scopes. Obviously I'm a fan.

The Khales scopes are great all-rounders. Perhaps not the best in any one single category on paper, but it does a great job at doing everything well.

I don't have any experience with the MK5's to compare to, but it's hard to go wrong with a k624i.

 

[HogsLife]

I have x3 Khales K624i scopes. Obviously I'm a fan.

The Khales scopes are great all-rounders. Perhaps not the best in any one single category on paper, but it does a great job at doing everything well.

I don't have any experience with the MK5's to compare to, but it's hard to go wrong with a k624i.

Agreed. My Khales 624 never left me wanting for anything. Great optic.

 

[lead ƒarmer]

I will be going Kahles soon. Didn't care for the 35mm tube (I have some spare 34mm rings sitting around) and HATED the capped windage. The offset windage zero marking was the biggest turn off though. Could never get my eyeballs in line with it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't stand this. First time I saw it I was blown away (not in a good way) It took Leupold YEARS to make a decent scope for the LR crowd. Now they have a decent scope but WTF is this windage?! Whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be kicked repeatedly in the testicles. I also hate how stiff the mag ring is.

 

[lennyo3034]

I recently moved from the Kahles to the Mk5. Not enough time on the Mk5 to give a good comparison.

I will say I hate the windage line too.

 

[chevy_man]

I will be going Kahles soon. Didn't care for the 35mm tube (I have some spare 34mm rings sitting around) and HATED the capped windage. The offset windage zero marking was the biggest turn off though. Could never get my eyeballs in line with it.

Do you dial windage?

I won't buy a scope without the option to cap or lock the windage. Never use it after it's zero'd, just hold.

Silver sharpie can make you a new line on the windage.

Rings are rings. The razor was 35mm, so there are plenty of options.


I think it's important to differentiate between the mk5's, as it seems the short body 3-18 has trouble with CA, while the longer 5-25 and 7-35 handle it just fine. I know my 5-25 has none that I can see. In reality I've never had any scope bad enough that it actually bothered me using it.

 

[HogsLife]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't stand this. First time I saw it I was blown away (not in a good way) It took Leupold YEARS to make a decent scope for the LR crowd. Now they have a decent scope but WTF is this windage?! Whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be kicked repeatedly in the testicles. I also hate how stiff the mag ring is.

Eh, I disagree. think it was a smart move Leopolds part. Most hold wind after it’s zerod and Leupold made a great x-over optic that appeals to both the hunting side as well as the tactical / PRS side

 

[lead ƒarmer]

Eh, I disagree. think it was a smart move Leopolds part. Most hold wind after it’s zerod and Leupold made a great x-over that appeals to both the hunting side as well as the tactical / PRS side.

Ok but why make it harder to zero in the first place? It’s a solution looking for a problem in my opinion. But hey that’s the great thing about options, people can buy what they want

 

[AznTactical]

Do you dial windage?

Rings are rings. The razor was 35mm, so there are plenty of options.

Yes I dial wind more often then holding.

Gen 1 Razor are 35mm. As I stated before I have spare 34mm mount so that saves me $250 by staying with a 34mm scope.

 

[SepticDeath]

I have 2 mark 5 optics and both are great but I do admit I am not a big fan of the windage line also. I do like to dial spin drift out of the equation when shooting at extreme long distances but hold for wind. Not another single complaint about the Mark 5 besides that so not a huge deal to me.

 

[chevy_man]

Yes I dial wind more often then holding.

Gen 1 Razor are 35mm. As I stated before I have spare 34mm mount so that saves me $250 by staying with a 34mm scope.

So you didn't know that before purchase?

I guess I don't understand why that even matters. I had 30mm rings laying around, why couldn't they fit 32mill of turret in a 30mm tube...

Seems odd to dial wind, but I shoot where more often than not it changes every minute so you'd spend all day chasing it back and forth.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Ive had a handful of different higher end scopes (not alpha) , and I have a 525 and a 624. Its hard to beat a kahles. I've always wanted leupold to get their crap together because I want to support them. The illumination thing, + reticle options sort of kept me from even looking hard at them in the past. Hard to not get a kahles going forward, knowing how good they really are.

 

[Kanwhitetails]

Finally couldn't take it anymore, and went ahead and mocked it up in some Spuhr SR4000 rings on the barrelled action. Tightened everything to 10 in-lbs, and now it's back to waiting for Manners. 7months. Getting close - I hope.

Went to look at reviews again, thought there might be more to read on the subject since it's been several months since I last looked. Nothing new.

I did learn that the 6-24i has been discontinued. This is disheartening; I wonder what will happen if I need to send it in for service down the road? This may be just fearful thinking, but it is also why I made this thread to begin with. I know it's a fantastic optic, and from a great maker. But I wonder about support now. I feel like I know what Leupold or Vortex would do if they can't fix it in a few seasons... Kahles though?

Probably much ado about nothing. It's still pretty disappointing.

 

[BND2763]

Do you dial windage?

I won't buy a scope without the option to cap or lock the windage. Never use it after it's zero'd, just hold.

Silver sharpie can make you a new line on the windage.

Rings are rings. The razor was 35mm, so there are plenty of options.


I think it's important to differentiate between the mk5's, as it seems the short body 3-18 has trouble with CA, while the longer 5-25 and 7-35 handle it just fine. I know my 5-25 has none that I can see. In reality I've never had any scope bad enough that it actually bothered me using it.

This post pretty much nails it.

I have two MK5’s, a 3-18 and 5-25. Wanted to reiterate the difference in CA between the two, since I had this question prior to purchase. The 5-25 handles CA noticeably better than the 3-18… to be expected, really. But, you really can’t judge image quality of the MK5 line if you’ve only looked through the 3-18.

I love both of my MK5’s for what they are, and their intended purpose. My only complaint is really with the reticle. I’m not a fan of the illumination pattern on the Tremor 3. And man, that was an expensive option.

I couldn’t give less of a shit about the windage zero line.

 

[Th1nor]

Finally couldn't take it anymore, and went ahead and mocked it up in some Spuhr SR4000 rings on the barrelled action. Tightened everything to 10 in-lbs, and now it's back to waiting for Manners. 7months. Getting close - I hope.

Went to look at reviews again, thought there might be more to read on the subject since it's been several months since I last looked. Nothing new.

I did learn that the 6-24i has been discontinued. This is disheartening; I wonder what will happen if I need to send it in for service down the road? This may be just fearful thinking, but it is also why I made this thread to begin with. I know it's a fantastic optic, and from a great maker. But I wonder about support now. I feel like I know what Leupold or Vortex would do if they can't fix it in a few seasons... Kahles though?

Probably much ado about nothing. It's still pretty disappointing.

Kahles been around a lot longer than others. And the Germans are great at doing service and repairs. 30 years +
No worries.