Moving away from hand primers

[orkan]

For the last 20 years, I have been using one manner of hand primer or another. Lee, RCBS, and most recently, 21'st Century. All of the models I've used have a tray incorporated into their design. For low volume sessions, they have always worked fine. I can usually do about 200-300 before I feel my thumbs starting to fatigue. In the last 5-7 years however, I've been digesting about 10,000-20,000 or more of various cartridges per year. Often I will load 500-1000 in a single session. The hand priming tools have always been pretty fast, but they have had some problems as well.

The primer trays always leave me wanting. They are always plastic, and far to easy to upset causing primers to fly around the room. On some models such as the RCBS they are prone to popping out completely, while on others like the 21st Century, the lit wants to pop off. Changing primer size and shell holders on the RCBS is a pain. It's easy on the 21st Century, but the brass shell holders on the 21st century are easily ruined if you have a few stubborn (tight) primer pockets. Still, no matter the unit, after 200-300 cases... my thumbs are begging for mercy. Various other little annoyances exist, yet nothing was ever a show stopper.

Priming has always been one of my major safety concerns. I ALWAYS wear safety glasses when priming, and I always keep my fingers away, and point the case away from me when pressing a primer home. Still, there's a tray of explosives that reacts to impacts surrounded by plastic right in front of me, and it has always been nerve wracking. A single primer has a pretty good pop. A tray of primers would have to cause some damage. Until today, that was just a theory. Then I found this picture:

He had a primer go in wrong, and it set off a domino effect causing every primer in the tray to pop instantaneously. The tool becomes shrapnel, as if the primers themselves weren't bad enough. This poor dude got his face shredded, and his eye socket broken. I found this while researching other priming options after a 400rnd 6.5CM priming session yesterday. I'm always looking for ways to improve, in just about every area of my life. It occurs to me, that I have seated several hundred thousand primers in my life, and the law of greater numbers suggests I'll be having an accident at some point regardless of how careful I am. When that happens, do I want one primer to pop, or potentially 100 I have in the tray?

So, I'll be trying out a bench-mounted priming tool. My two candidates are the RCBS Auto Priming tool or the RCBS APS primer. The auto uses pickup tubes, while the APS uses plastic strips. From the looks of it, both seem to greatly reduce the chances of a domino effect, with the Auto Primer being decidedly safer in that regard. Though I've not used either of them.

I'm looking for some advice on which to get. Personal first-hand experiences only please. If you've used both, excellent! Give me a comparison. If you've only used one or the other, tell me all about it! If you've used neither, please remain silent, and forever hold your peace. If you have a line on a different bench-mounted unit suitable for high volume priming, I'm all ears.

 

[Kuma]

well I have always wondered about the risk so from your post it seems real... I have never hand primed a single case in the 30 years since I started reloading.

But I guess one should always wear the eye protection... sometimes I get lazy...

EDIT: I have used the RCBS Auto mostly

 

[Bluejazz]

I use the RCBS AUTO priming tool. Fantastic. Easy to switch casing sizes, and like the fact that the primers are in a tube. You use arm pressure, not thumb pressure to set the primer, so less fatigue.
I will not deal with the APS that has the primers in strip form.

 

[rocketron]

I've had the rcbs auto prime for about 24 yrs. the two issues i have with it are the last primer out of the tube likes to jump out of the holder if you go fast and when picking up primers with the tube sometimes it will not grab the next one. it can be a pita

 

[dworrel]

I have used the APS strips with the hand priming tool quite a bit. Great for loading at the range. Limited options and can be hard to find primers at times. If you save the strips you can load the primers in them in a pinch. I have done this for a range loading session. I use my Dillon RL550 for non APS primers.

 

[Edsel]

I'm just waiting for someone to say, "I've had no problems with my so - and - so hand primer over the last 20 years."

These adverse events are very, very real.

 

[wakajawaka]

My only experience with the APS system is with the Pro 2000 press.
It worked well enough after a slight learning curve.
Some of the parts are quite fragile and can be easily broken if you disregard RCBSs warnings. Don't pull back on the strips...
I eventually got the more conventional primer tube conversion that I was used to.
There are several mods out now that have been thought up by users so I might revisit APS again.

 

[para72]

Its sometimes easy to get complacent when doing something repeatedly. Thats when you get bit! He's lucky he still has a face!

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[rduckwor]

While I agree that hand priming may well be fraught with some danger, for most of us it is what we have. I have limited room on my bench and limited funds in my bank. I would never load 100 primers in a hand priming tray.

It's easier to reload the tool than it is to pick primer shrapnel out of my face.

Good luck with you search.

 

[Road_Clam]

Wow, thanks for the great persphective on hand priming, something I never though of when I was contemplating which primer method I was going to start using when I bought my RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme kit. I opted not to use hand priming method simply from elevated fatigue. I use my Rock Chuckers' flip lever primer. Many times I can size/decap and reprime in one stroke. Now after reading this primer accident, I realize the Rock Chucker flip lever priming method keeps your face and hands AWAY from the potential hazard. There is also no way a bunch of primers can simultaniously explode as you only load a single primer into the arm.

 

[Twoboxer]

I thought this hand primer was safe enough: RCBS Universal Hand Priming Tool . . . because of the metal guard bar that slides between the primer being seated and all of the rest.

Whaddy'all think?

 

[CMH]

I too have primed probably a hundred thousand rounds on a hand primer in my life. I recently came across an RCBS Auto Priming tool. I have a couple thousand through it now and really like it. More consistent seating, no fatigue, probably less chance of an outcome like the guy in the pic.... Not a long term review for sure, but I'm digging it so far.

 

[I Am Hero]

Wow, thanks for the great persphective on hand priming, something I never though of when I was contemplating which primer method I was going to start using when I bought my RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme kit. I opted not to use hand priming method simply from elevated fatigue. I use my Rock Chuckers' flip lever primer. Many times I can size/decap and reprime in one stroke. Now after reading this primer accident, I realize the Rock Chucker flip lever priming method keeps your face and hands AWAY from the potential hazard. There is also no way a bunch of primers can simultaniously explode as you only load a single primer into the arm.

Yea this is exactly what I do in my Lee press. It is slow and tedious and probably isn't for the people who load thousands of rounds, maybe even tens of thousands of rounds a year. But when I am loading just 50 or 100 a session I found this to be the safest way to go. Never thought the hand primer would potentially be an issues like that (didn't know you could have a chain reaction in your primers laid out in a tray). I still use the tray technique for my Lee turret press and not going away from it there, but at least there is a giant steel and cast iron press between the primers and my face in the event that something does happen (also I only put 50 in my tray a time...half the explosion? cool!).

 

[pyplynr]

I have moved from a hand primer to the Forster Co-Ax bench primer. Almost wish I'd switched sooner. To me, I can still feel the primer go in and bottom out just like the hand primer.

 

[orkan]

I like the forster bench primer design... but the lack of universal jaws or shell-holders make it a non-starter for me. I'm not willing to jack around with 3 separate jaws/screws each time I need to swap cases. I go between 7lrm, 6.5cm, 308, and 338 far too often to need to do that.

I'm going to give the rcbs auto primer a try. Precision reloading had them on hand with all the necessary accessories, so I'll have one in a couple days to check out.

 

[Aflac]

Greg, I have the auto priming tool and love it, the only downside it's having to load the tubes, and if your going to have a chain reaction explosion with them it is going to be during that, but I was reading that I think Dillon makes a machine that will auto load the tubes and have been thinking about adding that to the routine, it would speed up the process a lot and if there was a problem it wouldn't be in my hands at the time. I don't know how high a chance of one going off while lagging the tube is but you do have to apply pressure and they are all in a stack on to of each other.

For the machine itself I don't have it permanently attached to the bench but use a clamp, I tried it without the clamp at first and it worked but I lost the feel you get when it's properly seated and it was slower, so clamp it down.

 

[Powermac]

I use and always will use a single fed hand priming tool, i do not load in enormous volumes at a time though 100-200.
And feeding every single primer by hand pretty much eliminates a chance of doing it wrong, and a discharge is not likely to hurt anything at all.
Safety glasses are still a smart idea though.
The 21st century SS primer tool and the K&M with a Gauge is the best tools available no doubt about it.
The K&M even ensures that every primer is seated exactly the same every time as long as you uniform the pcokets to a consistent depth., there is no other primer seater that does this currently certainly not with the same accuracy.
It is more tedious then using a magazine fed seater though, but to me it is worth it.

 

[arnie19]

I have a lot of hand primers and also the Forster Co-Ax bench primer .Im leary of the bench primer because you have your head and neck area over the top of the feed tube if it goes off.

 

[kingzero]

I used hand primers when I first started and quickly realized how much it sucked. I now prime all my brass on my Hornady Lock n Load AP. I can prime 100 260 cases in less than 10 minutes.

For a dedicated tool I would go with the auto with the tubes over the strips.

 

[mdmp5]

I prime with either the redding prime system in the press or with the Sinclair tool. I also have primed with the Dillon press. I detonated about 2 primers over the years, both in the Dillon press because the case was off center. With the Sinclair, only one primer is handled at a time, so an extremely adverse event is very unlikely. I agree that safety glasses should be worn, although I do forget to put them on. I have to start getting more vigilant

 

[stranded]

The question in my mind is how many primers were in his tray? I'm pretty sure my Lee directions say no more than 10 wlr's at a time or 20 cci's. Oh, and this is for you Edsel, " I have been using my Lee Auto prime for 30yrs and no problems".

 

[81Z4ME]

I finally wore out my almost 30 year old Lee hand priming tool a couple years back. It just broke at the hinge pin/hook on the handle. I had picked up a spare a couple of years ago and had set them up so I had the small primer tray in one and the large primer tray in the other so I only had to switch the shell holders.

The new Lee hand primer is made differently and does a better job of separating the primer being seated from the rest of the primers in the tray. However, the new Lee tool has two other issues. One is it does not turn the primers over nearly as well as the older Lee tools. The second is that it take more force to seat the primers. In just a couple hundred primers my thumb is screaming for mercy.

I need to hit some of the gun shows and see if I can find one of the old Lee hand priming tools.

I've never tried any other brand.

 

[Victor N TN]

Not to be hard to get along with... But 40+ years I have worn out 3 Lee Auto Primes and my log book shows almost 200,000 rounds. I'm a little OCD when it comes to safety. I'll probably get one of the new Lee's with the square tray soon.

But that's why they make more than one design. You should use what YOU think is best. Someone telling you something is better, unless they have proof, is for the birds.

Good luck.

 

[the once-ler]

I have used the RCBS universal hand priming tool and have abused the shit out of it. I done 1k easy in a sitting and no worries whatsoever. No shellholders to mess with and I only put about 30 in a tray at a time. The only complaint which really isn't a big deal is switching from large to small primers which takes about 2 minutes.
I wouldn't dismiss hand priming so quickly, it's very effective if you have the right tool.

 

[eshorebwhntr]

I've used the Lee hand tool, rcbs hand tool, and now rcbs auto prime. Personally I love the auto prime. Feel is much better. Less fatigue. Faster for me. The hand tools are fine but I too hated the cheap plastic trays. The ears that held the cover on the Lee had all broken and on new brass I would at some point make a mess spilling primers because of it.

If bench space is an issue clamp it down like was mentioned. Buy a flipper tray to speed up filling tubes. Also in regards to the seating depth comment, I've seen that Darrel Holland now makes a dial indicator setup for the auto prime that allows you to seat primers to within about .001 or better repeatibility for those that are interested.

 

[Scimitar]

I used the Lee and the RCBS hand prime units. Hand fatigue was why I stopped. Prime on a Redding T7 (not fond of their priming system), Dillon 550B, and a Hornady LNL auto press. Thinking of getting the RCBS bench mounted primer for the calibers not going to the progressive presses for other reasons

 

[sib1948]

I always put on my safety glasses whenever I'm at the loading bench. I use a Dillon 550B as a single stage press and the incorporated priming tool works great, but you do have to load the priming tube. I only load 100-150 cartridges at a time so only have a max of 50-60 primers in the tube at a time.

 

[Twoboxer]

Getting older, now I must use two hands on the RCBS Universal Hand Primer to avoid tiring out. It's a safe hand primer, and I'll do that until using two hands doesn't work for me anymore lol.

 

[orkan]

Guys I think I may have emphasized the safety aspect of it a little too much in my opening post. The 21st Century uses lee square trays, and they lift the primers up in there one at a time, so the chance of domino explosion would be very unlikely. It does look like the new lee ergo model is a lot better, since it has a nice wide handle for your thumbs. The 21st century thumb handle is quite sharp on the edges.

My main concern here is fatigue across a 500-1000rnd session. I've had 4 of these in the last 3 weeks. A recent batch of 7LRM brass left me with bruised thumbs, and I don't bruise easily. Unfortunately not all the components I use are perfect every time, and this was proof of that fact. CCI-250's are a little on the tight side anyway, and this brass was a little on the tight side, so it took quite a bit of force to get them home. After 500, I wouldn't have been able to crush a toilet paper tube with my right hand. Exaggeration there a bit, but you get the drift.

A bench mounted unit looks like it will slow me down some, but fatigue shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Road_Clam]

I tried both methods on my RCBS, and yes the lever prime method is slightly slower, but where I only load lesser lots of match grade, the time difference is totally insignificant. The elevated hand fatigue from attempting to prime stubborn Priv Prizi brass is significant for me. So my choice is the RCBS flip primer.It's also much easier to use the arm's leverage to fully seat a more stubborn large rifle primers than with the hand method.

 

[bigedp51]

I bought my Rockchucker press when I got out of the military in 1973 and the press is still going strong. I "upgraded" my press mounted priming gear to the classic below shortly after getting the press and see no reason to upgrade further. By staying in the slow lane you spend more time visually inspecting your work and not worry about how quick you get to your destination.

I have never shot in competition and had to worry about reloading deadlines, and after 46 years of reloading I have never had a case head separation or a primer misfire. (I'm knocking on wood and have my finger crossed)

If I did upgrade my classic "hand primer" below is the one I would buy. But then again I hate elect car windows and door locks.

And retired means nothing to do and all day to do it.

SINCLAIR PRIMING TOOL | Sinclair Intl

 

[orkan]

That would work, if I shot less. None the less I appreciate your perspective.

 

[jmorris]

Cars are bad too.

In 2010, there were an estimated 5,419,000 crashes, killing 32,885 and injuring 2,239,000.

I wouldn't trade in your car for a horse though, one of them paralyzed Superman back in '95.

Two things you should never force, primers and sex, both will cause you more trouble than you want.

 

[GrantA]

I use the RCBS Universal hand primer, and can tell you from experience it can explode! It was 100% my fault, it was the first time using it, I only put 10 primers in the tray and was learning the feel of it. I learned QUICKLY that if I have to squeeze a little, I need to stop and address either a crooked primer or a primer pocket is too tight and needs to be swaged. In my case I had 1 primer partially seated, let go of the handle which let another primer drop in, and I tried to drive it home. The "blast gate" on the priming arm of the tool was useless since there was an extra primer's thickness in there. I think 7 out of 10 popped.
I called RCBS, tail tucked, and told them what I did, explained it was my fault, the first question was "Are you OK?" Then they sent me the piece that broke and I have been using it happily since, with a certain level of respect for the tool.
I do always wear safety glasses while priming and I point the brass away from me. I used it for a couple hundred 223 not long ago, that's the largest batch I have done. I'd think if you need to load 500-1000 at a time you'll like a bench mounted tool

 

[orkan]

I found a solution to my problems gentlemen!

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ps-competition-primer-seater.html#post3214485

 

[ArmyJerry]

I load thousands with the auto prime, best upgrade I have done for carpal tunnel.

Prime enough with the hand primers and you look like Quagmire after he discovers the internet.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

I found a solution to my problems gentlemen!

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ps-competition-primer-seater.html#post3214485

LOL that was the longest lead up to a sales pitch I've seen in some time. Still laughing, thanks!

 

[orkan]

LOL that was the longest lead up to a sales pitch I've seen in some time. Still laughing, thanks!

I'm always happy to bring smiles to people's faces Dave. It's also always refreshing to hear from those that can find a conspiracy where none exist. I think a healthy suspicion is a good thing! Though your ever-present trolling of my posts does get old.

Necessity is the mother of invention. When I started this thread, the CPS didn't exist and wasn't even an idea. I'd never be able to keep something like this behind closed doors for that long... even if it did, which it didn't. Since starting this thread, I purchased 3 additional priming tools to compliment the gaggle of them I already owned. None of them got me where I wanted to go, or even close. So we set out to design a better mousetrap, and succeeded, with an innovative and patentable (already in process) design. You're obviously free to take it how you wish, but I think you'd be missing out to not consider the benefits of what we've developed.

 

[wrangler5]

I used Lee hand primers for many years, but as my thumb has aged I've found the RCBS hand primer to be more comfortable to use. One thing I fabricated that has helped make filling the tray a lot more stable is a 6" block of 2x4 in which I carved out a slot to hold the tool. I measured the width of the base of the tool and the width of the handle where it would sit in the block and the distance between the two, drilled a pair of holes to match the two widths and chiseled out the space between. A couple of photos are attached.



For those of you who use tube fed tools and don't want to spring for a Dillon electric tube filler, here's an article on how to make a (relatively) rapid tube filler using the tray from a Lee hand primer. Primer tube filler for about $10 - non-Dillon Reloading Equipment - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

 

[jbrand11]

Is the BASE CPS available now or is it in a preorder status

 

[orkan]

It is pre-order currently. We expect to be shipping in September.

 

[bax]

I'm just waiting for someone to say, "I've had no problems with my so - and - so hand primer over the last 20 years."

These adverse events are very, very real.

Okay, here you go. I started reloading in 1970. I have never had a primer pop outside a chamber. At this time, I use a Sinclair priming tool for my precision work and a Dillon 550 for volume work. I buy, chamber, and fit two new barrels this year. That covers three bolt guns.

I recognize that accidents are possible so I take care. I do not load the quantities that you guys do and, apparently, I go more slowly so I can see if the primer is positioned incorrectly. I double check that primer pockets are clean before priming. I don't force things. I make good ammo.

I like the look of the nifty tool that Orkan is showing off but, at my current volumes, I won't spend $350 or $450 for a priming tool. It looks wonderful and I would pay $150 or maybe $175 for it but I have stocks, barrels and scopes to buy and I will just take the time to be careful. I don't let improbable risks control my life or spend my money.