Thats good to hear. See if they can upgrade you to good action.
- Thread starter rustyinbend
- Start date
Thats good to hear. See if they can upgrade you to good action.
It's a Curtis Axiom Long Action (Rem-700-style). Are you suggesting that's not a good one? What would be better in your opinion? Just curious.
I don't think it's the action that is bad. It's the person running the show, supposedly.
You can read into the who thing probably if you googled Terminus vs Curtis. Long story short, if I have my facts straight. I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong. Patent holder wanted to make some slight improvement to the actions, business partner was like fuck no, patent holder left and started Terminus. Then there was a civil suit, something settled out of court, and now Curtis is the bad guy. Or something to that effect.
You can read into the who thing probably if you googled Terminus vs Curtis. Long story short, if I have my facts straight. I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong. Patent holder wanted to make some slight improvement to the actions, business partner was like fuck no, patent holder left and started Terminus. Then there was a civil suit, something settled out of court, and now Curtis is the bad guy. Or something to that effect.
Impact, defiance, origin. I'm jaded, the axiom I had was a pile of shit. Had more sharp edges than a rem700, they use an extremely short(.450")thread tenon on barrel, i had one lockong lug making zero contact, it would send the first rd in the group 1/2" high(hot or cold, with 2 diff barrels, and several different shooters, bagged or bipod, different stocks). My first custom action was a tl3, it was exquisite, everything had a clean radius to it fired brass looked like it hadn't been cycled. Origin, impact, deadline, and defiance, badger are all great actions. The axiom burned me hard, just had some cool things going on but the qc and execution of product was garbage. In my experience of one, for what thats worth.
Interesting. I tend to avoid the corporate drama. Love the rifle and got a 1-mile bucket-list shot ... before all the action screw weirdness started. I just want it fixed. As long as it's shooting straight again, I don't really care if the action was 3D-printed in a Homeless Encampment by Bobo the Dog-Faced Boy.
Update ... 300 WMBA is still at the mothership ... with forward action screw still coming loose even after replacing the cracked recoil lug. Looks like that was likely an "effect", but not a "cause". Only thing left to replace is the action. Trying to move them in that direction now. Fixing this rifle is taking a really long time.
Wow, I would be so bummed, hope they make it right. I’ve had a few barreled actions. in a chassis with no problems. This seems like it’s been going on for way too long, without a resolution. Glad I didn’t pay $3,500 for this. I would surly be disappointed.
True Dat !!! Hoping they make the decision quickly to just replace the action. Haven't been super "demanding" yet because at each juncture, they've believed they had it solved. Action replacement looks like the obvious next step. Another few days before I "help them" understand the inevitability of that decision. This has literally been going on for a year, on a very expensive rifle that should "just shoot right".
“This has literally been going on for a year, on a very expensive rifle that should "just shoot right".“
It shouldn’t take almost a year to make your rifle usable. Is Phil Cashin aware of what you’re going through?
Yup ... working with Phil directly. Hoping for a "breakthrough" soon.
Damn
This is still going on!
This is still going on!
This sounds like a 'flux-capacitor' issue...
Get your money back and get something real. A year... what is this...
Get your money back and get something real. A year... what is this...
I agree. The only reasons I'm being as patient as I am, are because (a) my 300-WM Barrett MRAD is super-accurate and satisfies my long range "urges" right now, and (b) I see this as a bit of a "test" for the folks at MPA as I ponder future purchases, and I want to see if they pass it.
I'm a Customer Support VP at a well-known technology company ... and seeing how companies handle difficult support problems is a hobby of mine. I use the experiences to avoid their mistakes, and wherever possible, emulate best practices.
I've been really cooperative and responsive, doing everything I've been ask (pre-RMA) ... and leaving them alone for long periods of time (post-RMA) even during extended periods without updates. I have a MPA 22LR BA rifle in the BA Hybrid chassis, and it's an amazing rifle in every respect ... not cheap, but quality parts, super accurate, no issues .... and over 25 yellow-belly-marmots deceased at my ranch, at distances up to 150 yards. I don't mind paying a premium price for exceptional products and good support. The $10,000 or so I have into my MRAD is a testament to that.
I was clear with MPA that I desperately wanted to love this 300-WMBA rifle, and in the early days before this problem developed, it gave me my first 1-mile hit. But a month after buying it in April of 2019 ... I started wrestling with this problem where it would "un-group" after 15-20 shots, and I'd roll it over and find a loose forward action screw. Worked the problem remotely with MPA without success for months before insisting that it return to the "mothership" to get fixed. It's been at MPA since mid-June without a fix.
I haven't given up hope, but I sent an Email yesterday asking to either replace the action, or give me "The Plan" on how this gets solved and returned in time for a early-September long-range clinic where I was hoping to shoot this rifle. That means I need it back soon, to have time to mount my accessories (scope, bag rider, cheek pad, etc.) ... and get the scope zero'd and log any ballistic changes.
Haven't heard back yet. I suppose asking for a refund is an option, but my MRAD is amazing (I have barrels in 6.5-CM, 300-WM, 308-Win, and 338-LM) ... so I can afford to let the "test" continue a bit longer.
If they do the right thing ... I'm ready to get another mile shot and (re)become their biggest fan. If not ... well ... let's just see about that.
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well, good for you that you're blessed with this much patience. I'd say the test has failed...
That's a problem.
I have a question for my friends following this thread. Apparently the next troubleshooting step at MPA is "bedding the action" into the MPA chassis. I know virtually "squat" about that process, maintenance, or unintended consequences. Assuming for now that bedding works, and the action screws stay tight as a result ... what are the pro's and/or con's of having a bedded chassis/action? Just curious ... but I always thought one of the up-sides of using a chassis like those at MPA ... is to avoid bedding and allow modularity. Do I understand that incorrectly?
honestly, my response would be "the best solution is either a replacement of the unit or a full refund and 100rds of ammo..."...
Forward this to MPA:
If I'd seen this thread before I'd ordered the MPA BA Pro I'm waiting on (#60270)..I would NOT have ordered it. They need to make this right, ASAP. Unfreaking sat.
If I'd seen this thread before I'd ordered the MPA BA Pro I'm waiting on (#60270)..I would NOT have ordered it. They need to make this right, ASAP. Unfreaking sat.
I'm curious to hear what the actual problem turns out to be.
When I first read the thread, I couldn't help but wonder if the rifle was using a Curtis action. Looking it up on MPA's website, sure enough that's what it is.
I won't be surprised if the action turns out to be the culprit, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt unless my hypothesis is confirmed right.
When I first read the thread, I couldn't help but wonder if the rifle was using a Curtis action. Looking it up on MPA's website, sure enough that's what it is.
I won't be surprised if the action turns out to be the culprit, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt unless my hypothesis is confirmed right.
I haven't followed this for a while so I was surprised to catch up and find out you're still dealing with this.
As for bedding a chassis, I feel the same way you do. But I suppose it's possible that an action doesn't sit in a chassis well enough so that it causes slight accuracy degradation.
If they do try using bedding material to get a perfect action to chassis fit then that chassis is only good for THAT action. If another action was to be mounted into that chassis, the bedding material would have to be removed and new bedding material added.
I don't know of any down side of bedding an action to a chassis/stock.
Bedding the action into the chassis is tantamount to admitting the action or chassis isn't flat. If you were assembling the rifle yourself it may be a reasonable step to get random parts to fit. I would find it problematic for a factory gun that wasn't intended to be bedded.
Update ... Phil says it's "fixed". He put 50 rounds through it and everything stayed nice and tight. It's shipping home ... should have it mid-next-week. They were able to solve the problem without changing the action. I'm assuming through bedding it, as that was the plan. I'll get details and share when I have them. Hopefully this odyssey is nearing an end. I've got 200 rounds of 300-WM I'm gonna put through it as soon as it gets here ... and do some fix verification of my own. If nothing shakes loose at that point, we all declare victory and get it back into the rotation. My Barrett MRAD has been awesome to shoot while I've been waiting for my MPA to find its way home.
Update ... got it back from MPA. They did a very nice job bedding the action, and the screws stayed tight through about 50 test rounds at MPA. Headed to the range soon to shoot like crazy for an hour or two and see if I get the same results. I know they shot it a lot, because the barrel showed more carbon and copper than I've ever seen in any 300-WM cleaning. Maybe this is solved ... fingers crossed. I'm trying to decide how I feel about solving this by bedding the action vs. replacing the action ... but at the end of the day, if it shoots straight, I guess I'm happy. How should I feel about paying $3,500 for a chassis-based precision rifle, that only stays screwed together when the action is bedded, and does not stay screwed together in it's "new" and "designed" form-factor? Any sage advice for me? Specifically ... does this decrease resale value if I decide to sell it?
I wouldn't worry about it. Bedding an action into a stock/chassis is a plus.
Final Update (I Hope) ... had good weather for an extended range day (no smoke, wind or rain). Put 100 rounds through my newly returned MPA 300WMBA ... the photo below is shots 96 through 100. Everything stayed tight, and as the photo indicates ... no degradation in accuracy. It took a while, but Phil and the crew at MPA seem to have solved this problem. In the past, I couldn't get past 20 shots without the action screws loosening. Not sure how or why bedding the action solved this problem, but I don't care ... it shoots straight now, and at the end of the day, that's all I really cared about. Frankly ... it feels like the repaired rifle actually shoots tighter and more consistent groups than the broken one did. Maybe there's something to this whole "bedded action" thing. Problem solved ... happy ending. Competing with it this weekend at ranges out to a mile ... looking for continued good results.
Thanks for the update Sir!
Bedding actions properly has been proven to increase accuracy since the 50s, nothing new. Alot of chassis' bolt on just fine and give excellent accuracy, as is, but bedding will always increase accuracy and give better return to poa/poi.
Yeah, bedding is a good thing. You could view it as a band-aide fix, but it works. My two Beanland custom rifles that can shoot 0.17 MOA 5-shot groups are both bedded. And I have zero issue with that!
Since getting this MPA back from the "Mothership" ... it's definitely shooting "lights-out". It was spot-on at various distances between 400 and 1,600 yards at a competition on Saturday, and I had 3 final shots to hit an 18"x36" steel target at 1-mile (1,760 yards). Shots 1 and 2 were super close, and Shot 3 was center mass. I'm absolutely "thrilled" with the accuracy of this rifle after MPA bedded the action to solve my loose screw issue. It's my new long-range BFF ... I'm a "Bedding Believer" now.
