Skip the spotting scope and just use your Vortex binos. You’ll be able to see mirage in your 10x42s. Don’t get me wrong, they can be nice to have especially to spot hits on targets past 800 but not really needed.
- Thread starter RaptorAddict
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Personal preference and/or needs. You'll likely see far, far more binos out at matches than spotters. But you'll still find some very good shooters using spotters, just not as many. Many aren't comfortable staring through a single spotter all day and prefer binos for comfort.
I've gone through the entire cycle, binos, spotter, both, etc. Now I personally spend 90% of my time behind Swaro SLC 15x. I do keep a spotter with reticle in my pack and use it to measure the width of targets. Purely for wind strategy/brackets.
But you could easily get through an entire PRS career without having a spotter and just using binos.
Im in the mid-atlantic region.
The kit that really makes or breaks it are snacks, water, sunscreen, and bug spray.
Are you going to CTA? It's typically a fun match but the dust is fine there so I highly recommend you bring a shooting mat if you have one.
Update on my first PRS match:
I SUCKED!!! But it was a hell of a time! The folks were very helpful and willing to help me out with anything I needed. One of the greatest learning experiences thus far. The shot timer I handled quite well as far as not worrying about it. But between the 40 mph winds, jitters and the first time doing positional shooting, I didn't hit much at all. Huge challenge over shooting off a bench, or prone all day. I had a hard time getting back on target and finding the next target, since there were a sea of targets at each stage. I did seem to clean house on the last stage, which was basically leaning over a table and with rear bag and bipod at ranges within 200-300 yards. And was the only stage I actually finished before the timer. LOL! The director mentioned first timers usually have a hard time keeping up with the flow of things, but I surprisingly handled it quite well. Before each stage began there was enough time for me to follow the directions for each stage, take data from my kestrel and record what I needed for the stages. No problem there.
Regarding the equipment those of you had given me insight on, everything was spot on. I seem to have all I need, but did come to the conclusion that I do not need a spotting scope after all. Everyone had bino's, rangefinders and Kestrel's mounted on their tripods. So a tripod with adaptors is all I need for now. Maybe another larger bag for stabilization in some positions. I was considering getting good with a sling, but nobody was using them. Is learning a sling out of the question these days? Part of me wants to figure it out and run with it. Been eyeballing the Tab Gear Pinnacle Rifle Sling.
Want to thank everyone on this thread again for all the insight and direction! Kept me on track today.
I SUCKED!!! But it was a hell of a time! The folks were very helpful and willing to help me out with anything I needed. One of the greatest learning experiences thus far. The shot timer I handled quite well as far as not worrying about it. But between the 40 mph winds, jitters and the first time doing positional shooting, I didn't hit much at all. Huge challenge over shooting off a bench, or prone all day. I had a hard time getting back on target and finding the next target, since there were a sea of targets at each stage. I did seem to clean house on the last stage, which was basically leaning over a table and with rear bag and bipod at ranges within 200-300 yards. And was the only stage I actually finished before the timer. LOL! The director mentioned first timers usually have a hard time keeping up with the flow of things, but I surprisingly handled it quite well. Before each stage began there was enough time for me to follow the directions for each stage, take data from my kestrel and record what I needed for the stages. No problem there.
Regarding the equipment those of you had given me insight on, everything was spot on. I seem to have all I need, but did come to the conclusion that I do not need a spotting scope after all. Everyone had bino's, rangefinders and Kestrel's mounted on their tripods. So a tripod with adaptors is all I need for now. Maybe another larger bag for stabilization in some positions. I was considering getting good with a sling, but nobody was using them. Is learning a sling out of the question these days? Part of me wants to figure it out and run with it. Been eyeballing the Tab Gear Pinnacle Rifle Sling.
Want to thank everyone on this thread again for all the insight and direction! Kept me on track today.
Great to hear you had a good time. That much wind makes it damn hard to even get steady, let alone handle the shooting. The next match you go to that’s calm will feel like heaven comparatively. No need for a sling. It will be in your way. Because the game of PRS is to build positional support (as opposed to unsupported sling shooting in high power, for example) a sling just imparts unwanted forces to the system which arent helpful. Check out the old balls inc system for a super low profile way to make carrying stuff around a little easier If you want a “carrying strap”.
You can go full weather station on your tripod or just mount your ranging binos on there and let your kestrel live in a tripod pouch, your backpack top, or even dangling from the apex of your tripod. It just needs to be somewhat out in the weather and maybe not laying on something baking in the sun. Some guys get a network of devices all connected together: kestrel, rangefinder, binos, scope, phone, heads up display, etc. I’ve even seen a guy bring a 15ft, tripod mounted, wind meter pole deal that supposedly measured wind with a Doppler scanner and reported it back to an app. All that is more than I want to manage but to each his own. For a known range match wherein most guys will have a rangefinder if a distance needs to be checked, just binos and a kestrel would be enough.
As for target acquisition and dealing with the sea of targets. Make sure you are at an appropriate magnification level with your scope. Maybe 15x. It will give you more visual cues. Practice watching your target all the way through recoil. The scope has to stay where you can see the target until the bullet hits. Get some SMALL ”targets” out a window in your yard or pick a rock across the valley…whatever you have and practice with a chair or step ladder. Put down a bag, put down the rifle, get behind the gun, point it at the “target” drop into the scope…the selected “target“ should be in the view. No need for ammo or even running the bolt. When you do live fire, stop using a bench or shooting prone at all.
Yes I for sure will only be practicing from different positions from here forward. Makes sense about the sling. Defiantly cannot wait for the next match with no wind. I have nothing to compare it to yet. High winds like that at a first match is enough to make someone go insane.
My TRG kept moving off target from recoil as well, which made it hard to find the target again. Even when I was shooting zoomed out. It's a bit light compared to a custom rig. Should I be looking into a chassis for it to give the option of weights? Was looking at Vision for a while now, but thought maybe I could get away with the rifle as is, since I really love my rifle's design and ergo's. It is 6.5 CM, so I'm not dealing with a heavier recoiling 308. But she was moving a bit much for sure.
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Sounds like a good first match…. Although wind was rough. When I’m acquiring my initial target, or moving to the next one, I peak above my elevation turret to line it up, drop my head and go…. That may help you when you have multi targets. Searching for targets is a major time killer.
I’d keep your set up as is and work on recoil management. That’s a pricey rig, it would almost be a shame to require upgrades. You’re already headed down the rabbit hole, so I’m sure a custom build is somewhere in the future. Run your TRG, figure out what you like and don’t like, and if you’re still enjoying the sport in the future, build something up.
I’d keep your set up as is and work on recoil management. That’s a pricey rig, it would almost be a shame to require upgrades. You’re already headed down the rabbit hole, so I’m sure a custom build is somewhere in the future. Run your TRG, figure out what you like and don’t like, and if you’re still enjoying the sport in the future, build something up.
You didn’t suck. Because you did better than everyone who has never had the nerve to actually show up to a match
The process of building positions is the same whether gas gun or bolt gun. Few extra steps moving between positions with the gas gun tho
Quantified Performance has gas gun specific matches. The middle class (that I shoot) has an 18" barrel and 1-8x class limit. They still put targets 400yds +
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I'll second the idea of a .22 I shoot mainly MARS matches here outside DC. Challenging stuff. You wouldn't think a 3-4" target at 100yds would be tough to hit, but it can be. Targets at 200yds or further? I've seen it done consistently, but I'm not there yet.
If you end up shooting lots of centerfire matches, I'll bet you'll end up with a 6mm of some flavor relatively quickly.
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Is there a way to add weight? I don’t know anything about Tikka products. If you can get it up around 20 pounds, add a brake, evaluate the shape of the forend, go to a lighter caliber (there is a difference between 6.5CM, 6CM, 6dasher, and 6 BR), switch to a chassis that gives you more individual fit at the back and the grip, reevaluate your Lop, etc.Yes I for sure will only be practicing from different positions from here forward. Makes sense about the sling. Defiantly cannot wait for the next match with no wind. I have nothing to compare it to yet. High winds like that at a first match is enough to make someone go insane.
My TRG kept moving off target from recoil as well, which made it hard to find the target again. Even when I was shooting zoomed out. It's a bit light compared to a custom rig. Should I be looking into a chassis for it to give the option of weights? Was looking at Vision for a while now, but thought maybe I could get away with the rifle as is, since I really love my rifle's design and ergo's. It is 6.5 CM, so I'm not dealing with a heavier recoiling 308. But she was moving a bit much for sure.
The single MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is practice. With practice, all of the above becomes an enhancement to your system not a crutch to cover your poor technique. Lots of good shooters win matches with 6.5 and 25 caliber bullets and with “stocks” that have almost no fit adjustment. Start with a 2 MOA target at 400 yards (Something you can’t miss that’s farther than 300 yards). From a barricade or whatever you have that’s not prone or a bench, shoot from standing and focus on seeing the impact and keeping your face on the gun, reticle on target, as you cycle the bolt. No prairie dogging. Try a shorter length of pull than you think you need, by as much as a couple inches. Try the butt much closer to midline (under your chin) than you are used to. Make sure your shoulders are perpendicular to the gun and parallel with the target face. No blading your shoulders or your hips or your feet. Focus on holding the gun tightly enough to control the recoil but not so tight that it wobbles all over. The recoil should come straight back allowing you to watch the target the whole time. If the muzzle jumps or dives off to the side, your body position needs a change.
Dry fire can help work out the mechanics of body position too. Shooting at 1 MOA targets at 100 yards on paper is also a much better training tool than shooting steel at distance while you are trying to work on position building. Your goal should be to shoot the same groups from any position that you currently can from prone.
I was shooting a 1 MOA (3" spinner) at 300yds last weekend out at PNTC with my 16" AR with an ATACR 1-8. Fun times. I havent had a chance to try any farther than 300yds though. Hoping to do so next Sunday.
That sounds like a good strategy for acquiring the target. I'll use that for sure. My TRG does have the conventional stock and isn't the new ones with the A1 chassis. I wish. LOL! But if I was gonna change anything it would be a good chassis. The action is super smooth and the trigger is second to none. So I'll hang onto it as long as I can.
I was definitely nervous, but once I got to see all the guys and the welcoming vibes, I was hooked on the event. My friend/CCW instructor told me I won cause I didn't DQ on my first day.
@RaptorAddict Just read your post match update. Looks like a good time was had. My local PRS club does a new shooters match once a year. They have a few loaner rifles too so I may look into that for the spring. Otherwise I can shoot any other match but can't then shoot the new shooter match. Or I just wait until 2025 to start with the new shooter match. Regardless, PRS is on my 2yr road map.
Don’t wait. Get in whenever you can. No reason to actually wait for a new shooter match IMO. Just tell everyone your new (they usually ask during match brief anyway) and you will be taken care of.
Correct. Same scenario I was in yesterday. There were 3 newcomers out of 26 competitors and being a beginner made bo difference to them. My squad actually kept asking if I was coming next month. Nice experience.
Glad you had a good time @RaptorAddict
I was going to offer you some advice on squaring up on your target and getting your buttstock tucked in close but @OREGUN beat me to it and did a great job explaining that already.
Have fun with your new addiction.
I was going to offer you some advice on squaring up on your target and getting your buttstock tucked in close but @OREGUN beat me to it and did a great job explaining that already.
Have fun with your new addiction.
Ok, here are a few things you can look forward to doing:
- Shoot targets out of order... or at targets in another lane for a different stage... or objects in the lane that aren't actually targets... or...
- RO says "Load and make ready" and you have no magazine on you to load...
- Discover twenty seconds after the "beep" that you inserted the magazine from the previous stage with two rounds left in it...
- Discover after the first two shots that you have elevation from the previous stage still dialed...
- After several shots with "no call," no splash, no nuthin' that what you thought was 4.5 mils elevation is actually 14.5 mils elevation...
- Discover after "x" stages that your ballistic calculator is still set to "meters" from the previous weekend's trip to a meters-measure range
- Discover after "x" stages that you selected the wrong load on your calculator... (it was remarkable that my score wasn't as bad as I would have thought after shooting an entire match with a 6BR rifle using a .223 profile...)
As was written earlier - enjoy your new addiction!
What squad were you on? It was definitely windy. I actually had more hits yesterday than my first 4 matches combined. Can’t wait for the next one.
PS match video is on YouTube. Pretty sure I see you in it. And you did great!
PS match video is on YouTube. Pretty sure I see you in it. And you did great!
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What he is sayin' @RaptorAddict is check lists save stages. Have an order of how you prepare for a stage, engage the stage and post stage check list or habit that you don't deviate from to keep the mental errors away.
If you haven't already discovered Chad and Francis's "Miles to Matches" pobcast on spotify or podbean or Phil Cashin's youtube series "The Winners Circle" on his Masterpiece Arms channel, start listening and watching. Lots of great content and they are great guys, competitors and friends as well.
HAHA!!! I was in your squad. I was the only newbie in the group. I appreciate the props on doing great. I felt like I sucked, but I guess considering it was my first go, hey, I made it through with some hits in that wind. Great meeting you and the group yesterday!
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Be safe, have fun, don't rush, try to make good shots. It's hard, don't get frustrated just enjoy yourself.
I’ll be there next month for sure!
Check
Check
Check
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and Check.
The meters/yards thing really fucks with you 'cause your dope was just fine the last match and you can't figure out why you're off a few clicks or just missing. Then it dawns on you and you feel extra dumb but massively relieved at the same time. I blame the MDs who insist on using meters. 'Merica! Also my dope calculator that makes it super easy to just switch between the two instead of converting from meters to yards for that one match.
all the rimfire matches I've ever been to use the same props as in that vid. Ranges are shorter tho. .22s are blown around by the wind LOTS making wind calls very important
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Right?!
Happens shooting USPSA too. Shoot these X targets, reload, shoot these targets, reload is the plan. Right till the BEEP! goes off then it seems to be shoot till the mag runs dry THEN reload.
One of these days I'll get it in all the shooting disciplines I shoot
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Damn, that looks like a good time. Wish I made it up there but I just couldn't justify spending that kind of time the weekend before finals.
More weight isn't going to fix your recoil management problem. It might reduce it some but it won't fix it.
Learning how to manage recoil is what is going to fix your problem. Not just with the TRG but with every single other rifle as well.
Don't fall in the trap of buying stuff to fix skill deficits. It's a tempting trap to fall into especially if you have a lot of discretionary spending power.
I like hearing this cause I like my rifle as is. Always though the weight was the main issue. I got the arca swiss rail installed and figure to add a barricade stop and an arca mounted bipod. With that I should be good for a while. I think.
“2.5 Moe”.
Im a left hand on scope guy….putting it out on the forend effs up my shoulder geometry. Watch in that video when he takes his first shot with “2.5 Moe“ dialed. He reaches forward and it pulls his left shoulder forward…and creates an angle between his rifle and his body.
Here’s a couple of golden bullet holders and AG cup winners to reference.
Im a left hand on scope guy….putting it out on the forend effs up my shoulder geometry. Watch in that video when he takes his first shot with “2.5 Moe“ dialed. He reaches forward and it pulls his left shoulder forward…and creates an angle between his rifle and his body.
Here’s a couple of golden bullet holders and AG cup winners to reference.
Attachments
I guess everyone has their way. LOL! I’ll find mine.“2.5 Moe”.
Im a left hand on scope guy….putting it out on the forend effs up my shoulder geometry. Watch in that video when he takes his first shot with “2.5 Moe“ dialed. He reaches forward and it pulls his left shoulder forward…and creates an angle between his rifle and his body.
Here’s a couple of golden bullet holders and AG cup winners to reference.
It really is what you practice that matters.
Except saying “MOE”. You can’t do that if you want to be taken seriously in the US.
Normally that would be me too. But when the rifle is on a beam with zero resistance, I have to reach forward to the front part of the chassis to steady it. Tough shooting but then I’m kind a Lanterne Rouge winner anyway, practice hard, even work out, but no my place in life and glad I can still be here.“2.5 Moe”.
Im a left hand on scope guy….putting it out on the forend effs up my shoulder geometry. Watch in that video when he takes his first shot with “2.5 Moe“ dialed. He reaches forward and it pulls his left shoulder forward…and creates an angle between his rifle and his body.
Here’s a couple of golden bullet holders and AG cup winners to reference.
Is that Jimmy Moore in the first pic?“2.5 Moe”.
Im a left hand on scope guy….putting it out on the forend effs up my shoulder geometry. Watch in that video when he takes his first shot with “2.5 Moe“ dialed. He reaches forward and it pulls his left shoulder forward…and creates an angle between his rifle and his body.
Here’s a couple of golden bullet holders and AG cup winners to reference.
Any recommendations on how to get my binos and kestrel setup on a tripod. Currently shopping for a tripod, but wasn't sure of how to mount some of the gear. Mainly want it for steadying my binos, as I couldn't hold steady enough to read some of the targets.
The RRS cinch is a good choice if it fits your bino tube. Make sure to get the metal one. The polymer one breaks. You can buy an Amazon special macro rail that will mount binos to one end and other stuff to the other. See photo.
Another good choice is this bag. If you are going to use a plate on your tripod anyway.
wiebadgear.com
kestrel comes with a cord. Use that to hang it off your tripod.
Another good choice is this bag. If you are going to use a plate on your tripod anyway.
Bino Bag | WieBad Gear
wiebadgear.com kestrel comes with a cord. Use that to hang it off your tripod.
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Great bag for the bino's! I'll check that out. And good point on the Kestrel.The RRS cinch is a good choice if it fits your bino tube. Make sure to get the metal one. The polymer one breaks. You can buy an Amazon special macro rail that will mount binos to one end and other stuff to the other. See photo.
Another good choice is this bag. If you are going to use a plate on your tripod anyway.
Bino Bag | WieBad Gear
kestrel comes with a cord. Use that to hang it off your tripod.
I have that bino bag. I used an aluminum plate and amazon arca rail. Tripod is bog deathgrip with an adapter piece from a guy on here to replace the hog clamp with an Amazon ball head.
The easy cheap way without a ball head or leveler is to just plunk your bag on top of the tripod and rest the binos on the bag. Downside to that is you don’t want to take your hand off it since it’s not attached. I did that for a while, then got a leveler with arca clamp then got an arca attachment for my binos.
As far as the Kestrel, I just hang it off the cord.
As far as the Kestrel, I just hang it off the cord.
Got my eye on the Vortex Radian tripod with Ball head. Not sure if anyone here has one to share experiences with that particular unit. Looked at the death grip as well.
I’ve run the radian with ball head for several years now. It’s all the tripod I need for 90/10 spotting/shooting. If you can find a certificate for 30% off vortex at eurooptic (seems like they give these away at matches some times) it can be had for cheap. Mine has been robust and trouble free.
Right now they have a promo for 15% off.
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