Last night, Danged interesting. Russian Presidency up for election March 4.
Greg
Greg
- Thread starter Greg Langelius *
- Start date
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
I spent 3 weeks in Dec in Petersburg, people are very divided on Putin. Just depends on how it effects them..also do not believe most of what you hear about Russians.. I saw no drunks, no obesity, just hard working people. and things are cheap, a great place to visit
I spent 3 weeks in Dec in Petersburg, people are very divided on Putin. Just depends on how it effects them..also do not believe most of what you hear about Russians.. I saw no drunks, no obesity, just hard working people. and things are cheap, a great place to visit
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
It's very enlightening to see and hear the key players themselves summarizing events and actions that I have trouble recalling even the most rudimentary knowledge about.
Stuff has been going on beneath the radar for decades, and it's very telling about the personalities and driving forces involved.
I learned a lot from this program, and have revised a number of viewpoints where my knowledge has turned out to be far less complete. It prompts me to caution where I once believed I had a basis for being more outspoken. Things are nowhere as clear as I had once believed. Serious opportunities have been missed on both sides. Individuals in whom I had much faith throughout don't look so solid after this.
The potential exists for things to get pretty ugly, starting with Russia after Mar 4.
We may be accustomed to turmoil there, and other-than-benign regime change; but events support a new outlook, where regional conflicts and economic stress have become far more widespread.
What's happening in the Mid-East and perhaps the Russias can probably be no longer ruled out anywhere.
What many of us have lauded in the Middle East does not look as rosy to me as some here once predicted. I suspect a good bit of it will rise up to bite us in the nethers. Russia has its own problems from similar sources. Nobody's going to get out of the next decade without a few new scars.
I, for one, pay heed when Putin looks at the succession of new Western leaders coming to court, and says he's already seen the movie several times and it doesn't end well.
He's the only one in the room with a real track record. We may not like where he's been and where he's wanting to go; but when it comes down to looking out for one's own national values, I think he's the only one in the current game who has a clear commitment and an actual grasp on the way it's done.
Iran is nobody's friend, and the Russians understand they are threatened right along with us. The French and the Germans have already shown we cannot count on them when things get interesting. The Brits are better allies, but beyond moral support, I don't see much help from that quarter. The UN is drooling with glee; already gloating in advance of the upcoming festivities.
...And somebody, please keep an eye on that Hillary critter; if anyone has both the position and the inclination to sell us all out...
Hang on boys and girls, I do believe we're in for a bumpy night...
Greg
It's very enlightening to see and hear the key players themselves summarizing events and actions that I have trouble recalling even the most rudimentary knowledge about.
Stuff has been going on beneath the radar for decades, and it's very telling about the personalities and driving forces involved.
I learned a lot from this program, and have revised a number of viewpoints where my knowledge has turned out to be far less complete. It prompts me to caution where I once believed I had a basis for being more outspoken. Things are nowhere as clear as I had once believed. Serious opportunities have been missed on both sides. Individuals in whom I had much faith throughout don't look so solid after this.
The potential exists for things to get pretty ugly, starting with Russia after Mar 4.
We may be accustomed to turmoil there, and other-than-benign regime change; but events support a new outlook, where regional conflicts and economic stress have become far more widespread.
What's happening in the Mid-East and perhaps the Russias can probably be no longer ruled out anywhere.
What many of us have lauded in the Middle East does not look as rosy to me as some here once predicted. I suspect a good bit of it will rise up to bite us in the nethers. Russia has its own problems from similar sources. Nobody's going to get out of the next decade without a few new scars.
I, for one, pay heed when Putin looks at the succession of new Western leaders coming to court, and says he's already seen the movie several times and it doesn't end well.
He's the only one in the room with a real track record. We may not like where he's been and where he's wanting to go; but when it comes down to looking out for one's own national values, I think he's the only one in the current game who has a clear commitment and an actual grasp on the way it's done.
Iran is nobody's friend, and the Russians understand they are threatened right along with us. The French and the Germans have already shown we cannot count on them when things get interesting. The Brits are better allies, but beyond moral support, I don't see much help from that quarter. The UN is drooling with glee; already gloating in advance of the upcoming festivities.
...And somebody, please keep an eye on that Hillary critter; if anyone has both the position and the inclination to sell us all out...
Hang on boys and girls, I do believe we're in for a bumpy night...
Greg
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He's the only one in the room with a real track record. We may not like where he's been and where he's wanting to go; but when it comes down to looking out for one's own national values, I think he's the only one in the current game who has a clear commitment and an actual grasp on the way it's done. </div></div>
Hitler, Stalin and Mao were equally committed to "national values."
Putin is a gangster, lets not sugar coat the truth.
Russia is far from at odds with Iran, they're already partnering on wide range of issues and actively cultivating a strategic long-term relationship, as are the Chinese.
Which underscores why we ought tread VERY lightly with Iran, all this nonsense ends badly for everyone.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He's the only one in the room with a real track record. We may not like where he's been and where he's wanting to go; but when it comes down to looking out for one's own national values, I think he's the only one in the current game who has a clear commitment and an actual grasp on the way it's done. </div></div>
Hitler, Stalin and Mao were equally committed to "national values."
Putin is a gangster, lets not sugar coat the truth.
Russia is far from at odds with Iran, they're already partnering on wide range of issues and actively cultivating a strategic long-term relationship, as are the Chinese.
Which underscores why we ought tread VERY lightly with Iran, all this nonsense ends badly for everyone.
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
Did you see the broadcast? I did, and I used to think exactly as you do.
Gangsters and thugs are not limited to Putin and the others you mentioned. That's what makes him so dangerous. He's the one who holds teh eye while others are also in play.
I don't mean to sugarcoat anything. I just believe that in the coming days, there will be no easy choices, and no obvious, slam-dunk pathways to a better world.
Everything you're saying is probably dead right. We do not disagree here. I look beyond individual agreement.
My concern is not about making valid predictions. It's about preparing for the storm. Staring into our own navels and lamenting domestic issues is likely to be non-productive in the long run, maybe even the short run. There are bigger fish out there in the deep canyons.
Greg
Did you see the broadcast? I did, and I used to think exactly as you do.
Gangsters and thugs are not limited to Putin and the others you mentioned. That's what makes him so dangerous. He's the one who holds teh eye while others are also in play.
I don't mean to sugarcoat anything. I just believe that in the coming days, there will be no easy choices, and no obvious, slam-dunk pathways to a better world.
Everything you're saying is probably dead right. We do not disagree here. I look beyond individual agreement.
My concern is not about making valid predictions. It's about preparing for the storm. Staring into our own navels and lamenting domestic issues is likely to be non-productive in the long run, maybe even the short run. There are bigger fish out there in the deep canyons.
Greg
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you see the braodcast. I did, and I used to think exactly as you do.
Gangsters and thugs are not limited to Putin and the others you mentioned. I don't mean to sugarcoat anything. I just believe that in the coming days, there will be no easy choices, and no obvious, slam-dunk pathways to a better world. Everything you're saying is probably dead right.
My concern is not about making valid predictions. It's about preparing for the storm.
Greg </div></div>
I did watch the last hour of it, and found it to be pretty soft on the critiques when it comes to Putin.
Would you agree that the opposition to Putin was given equal time and explanation?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you see the braodcast. I did, and I used to think exactly as you do.
Gangsters and thugs are not limited to Putin and the others you mentioned. I don't mean to sugarcoat anything. I just believe that in the coming days, there will be no easy choices, and no obvious, slam-dunk pathways to a better world. Everything you're saying is probably dead right.
My concern is not about making valid predictions. It's about preparing for the storm.
Greg </div></div>
I did watch the last hour of it, and found it to be pretty soft on the critiques when it comes to Putin.
Would you agree that the opposition to Putin was given equal time and explanation?
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
I can't really say without seeing it at least once again. I don't think the situation can be dealt with adequately in a two hour special when I already have two beers in me. It leaves me with more questions than answers...; and a set of wide open eyes and ears.
All I can say is the view I once had has been thoroughly shattered. Where I had confidence, I have far less now.
BTW, as you can probably also see, I tend to revise and extend my remarks...
Greg
I can't really say without seeing it at least once again. I don't think the situation can be dealt with adequately in a two hour special when I already have two beers in me. It leaves me with more questions than answers...; and a set of wide open eyes and ears.
All I can say is the view I once had has been thoroughly shattered. Where I had confidence, I have far less now.
BTW, as you can probably also see, I tend to revise and extend my remarks...
Greg
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
When a former head of the KGB is running the show, I too have a lot less confidence in Russian stability.
Read some of the articles written by Garry Kasparov, he's got a very different perspective on Putin than what's typically told by the media.
When a former head of the KGB is running the show, I too have a lot less confidence in Russian stability.
Read some of the articles written by Garry Kasparov, he's got a very different perspective on Putin than what's typically told by the media.
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
Thanks; I've heard the name, now I have a better reason to look it up.
Thanks; I've heard the name, now I have a better reason to look it up.
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
I hope this repeats soon. I missed it last night and from what's posted it sounds like something I may not want to watch but might need to watch?
I hope this repeats soon. I missed it last night and from what's posted it sounds like something I may not want to watch but might need to watch?
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">When a former head of the KGB is running the show, I too have a lot less confidence in Russian stability.</span>
</div></div>
That is my sentiment, precisely!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">When a former head of the KGB is running the show, I too have a lot less confidence in Russian stability.</span>
</div></div>
That is my sentiment, precisely!
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just believe that in the coming days, there will be no easy choices, and no obvious, slam-dunk pathways to a better world.</div></div>
There never has been an "easy way" to a better world. Ever. And who gets to define what a better world is? Does a better world mean peace, countries getting along without constant war? Governments are like corporations whose main product is war. While the most "people" of the planet may want peace, the governments just want perpetual war and would not allow peace for any extended period of time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just believe that in the coming days, there will be no easy choices, and no obvious, slam-dunk pathways to a better world.</div></div>
There never has been an "easy way" to a better world. Ever. And who gets to define what a better world is? Does a better world mean peace, countries getting along without constant war? Governments are like corporations whose main product is war. While the most "people" of the planet may want peace, the governments just want perpetual war and would not allow peace for any extended period of time.
Re: NatGeoTV-Russia and the West: Putin Takes Control
Pretty wild stuff, I can see Putin dealing with Barry just like he did the billionaire factory owner. "Give me my pen back", what a gangster.
Pretty wild stuff, I can see Putin dealing with Barry just like he did the billionaire factory owner. "Give me my pen back", what a gangster.
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