Never Trumpers and Those Who Don't Like Trump

rustyinbend

GySgt USMC 1976-1992
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I hope your not referring to me and I don't think you are because I only have one post in this thread but I am new here. I'm new to this board but not competitive shooting, I've been a serious competition shooter since 2013. The only thing that lead me to this board was covid shutting down all of my regular matches so I got into gas gun PRS style matches because there was nothing else going on. I lurked for about a month reading a lot then joined because there is a lot of amazing information on here. I've shot almost every kind of match over the years mainly 3 gun now. USPSA, steel challenge, service rifle, bullseye, sporting clays and trap, a lot of trap in the late 90s/early 2000s. As far as forums I'm a long time member on Brian enos forum and national match forum. Politics is not allowed on Enos and as far as national match forum goes everyone on there has the same political views so there's no point in talking about it.

Unfortunately politics is like a car accident that crashed into a burning Dumpster with antifa kids falling into it and I can't look away so instead of using this forum to learn about long range shooting I'm wasting time reading this garbage (and I mean that in the most respectful way).

I am wondering what you mean by "a typical political beliefs from the average user".

Also, I really wish @rustyinbend would answer my question from my post in this thread. He seems like an intelligent man an I really am interested in his view.
Be happy to take a stab at it ... please point me once again to the question. Thanks very much, my apologies for missing it.
 

Bwhntr53

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this is kind of long, but worthwhile. note that while it was published in the spring, the story was from 2012.
one of my favorite parts?

I said, “You have the bearing of a military man… am I correct?”


“Yes, Sir… 22 years in the Marine Corps.” I thanked him for his service, something I always do when I encounter a member of our armed services. My standard line is, “Thank you for your service. I think you should hear that every damned day for the rest of your life, and your first beer should be free anywhere you go.”


So we are chatting on the drive, and the story on the radio is Eric Holder being held in contempt of Congress over the Fast and Furious fiasco. I said, “Can you believe that shit? This asshole intentionally sends guns to Mexican drug gangs that will no doubt end up killing thousands of people, and then he lies and stonewalls the Congress? How is this deceitful douchebag not in shackles and an orange jumpsuit? And more to the point, how does someone like this ever ascend to the office of Attorney General?”


“He’s part of the Clinton machine… he knows low people in high places. He came up under Janet Reno… you know who that is, right?”



“Oh, yes, I know… the crazy dyke that gave the order to burn down the Branch Davidians in Waco. But what I don’t get is how they ever thought they could pull this shit off… people aren’t THAT stupid. If you say you are tracking guns, although you have no actual means of tracking the guns, that makes you look both dishonest AND moronic, and your cover story doesn’t make any sense. This didn’t have anything to do with illegal gun sales… any idiot can see that. So what was the REAL plan here?”...

and

“These people are playing with matches… I don’t think they understand the scope and scale of the wildfire they are flirting with. They are fucking around with a civil war that could last a decade and cause millions of deaths… and the sad truth is that 95% of the problems we have in this country could be solved tomorrow, by noon… simply by dragging 100 people out in the street and shooting them in the fucking head.”



Wow. I went to the site and started reading from top of this article. There is one thing that I would like to say about this article. This whole thing has been on my mind for months. Since this crap started. And this is the most realistic possibility I have ever read about in my lifetime.
 
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MadDuner

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If we all pretend our ARs are lost in a boating accident when they outlaw them - we won’t ever get to shoot them - and we negate the true reason for 2A to begin with.

The only way it works is if everyone shows up with theirs all at once, states that they are still the same law-abiding citizens we’ve always been, and unanimously refuse to give them up in a tyranny defying act of civil disobedience. But it can’t be done one or two guys at a time. It has to be done on a mass scale and our position of disobedience has to be stated for all to hear.
 

Forgetful Coyote

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If we all pretend our ARs are lost in a boating accident when they outlaw them - we won’t ever get to shoot them - and we negate the true reason for 2A to begin with.

The only way it works is if everyone shows up with theirs all at once, states that they are still the same law-abiding citizens we’ve always been, and unanimously refuse to give them up in a tyranny defying act of civil disobedience. But it can’t be done one or two guys at a time. It has to be done on a mass scale and our position of disobedience has to be stated for all to hear.
X2 If you ain’t willing to fight to keep your hard-earned shit, sell it to someone who is!
 
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BullGear

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I think this thread was made up to find out who is against Trump. It has gotten personal. As an INDEPENDENT and more concerned about the issues rather then the personalities here is one view (not necessarily mine) as to why people may not like Trump. Anyone who criticizes me as being a liberal or Dumbocrat is really ignorant, or stupid, but here are some reasons as to why some people think Trump should not be POTUS. Those who are really stupid or ignorant will show exactly how much if they don't give a valid reason why a reason is not true.

Nope, I started this thread to see why people who hated Trump and their reasons. I'm tired of hearing about the laws he's broken when they can't cite those laws. I don't understand how after 3+ years of the country being turned around like never before, folks still can't seem to say anything nice about the President. How they can blame him for these Covid19 deaths when it was governors who placed the sick in nursing homes. He basically banned the world from coming into the US within 10 days of the official WHO notice.

I really just don't understand. Please, give me REASONS for your hate.
 

theLBC

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Well shit. No wonder you are so angry all the time.
hahaha, it isn't all bad, at least not where i live.
this is from our balcony...although i used to live in a crip neighborhood.
it is actually an svbony spotter (for the poors).

 

theLBC

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If we all pretend our ARs are lost in a boating accident when they outlaw them - we won’t ever get to shoot them - and we negate the true reason for 2A to begin with.

The only way it works is if everyone shows up with theirs all at once, states that they are still the same law-abiding citizens we’ve always been, and unanimously refuse to give them up in a tyranny defying act of civil disobedience. But it can’t be done one or two guys at a time. It has to be done on a mass scale and our position of disobedience has to be stated for all to hear.
 

Choid

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hahaha, it isn't all bad, at least not where i live.
this is from our balcony...although i used to live in a crip neighborhood.
it is actually an svbony spotter (for the poors).

Are those men or women on that boat? Hard to tell out there.
 

rustyinbend

GySgt USMC 1976-1992
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Dec 9, 2018
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Bend, Oregon
If we all pretend our ARs are lost in a boating accident when they outlaw them - we won’t ever get to shoot them - and we negate the true reason for 2A to begin with.

The only way it works is if everyone shows up with theirs all at once, states that they are still the same law-abiding citizens we’ve always been, and unanimously refuse to give them up in a tyranny defying act of civil disobedience. But it can’t be done one or two guys at a time. It has to be done on a mass scale and our position of disobedience has to be stated for all to hear.
I was kidding. I can send you a photo of me in my "I Will Not Comply" t-shirt, standing next to my full gun safe(s). I'm a patient man, but that's where I'd draw my line.
 
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theLBC

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i would still like somebody to tell me what part of the democrat platform they support.
do you like killing babies after they are already out of the mom and crying?
do you like meth, fentanyl, heroin and sex traffickers?
do you like forcing poor families to send their kids to public school failure factories that graduate <25% of the kids that go there?
do you like to force the already poor families to struggle to find affordable housing because illegals will pack in there to make the rent affordable?
do you like that convicted rapists can hop a fence (if there is one) to come back and rape some more?
do you like that kate steinle was murdered and her killer not punished?
do you like foreign wars that slaughter muslim goat herders while our brothers and sisters come back in coffins and wheelchairs?
do you like that tens of thousands of americans are hooked on opioids by unscrupulous doctors and end up dying of overdoses, every fucking year?
do you like that we pay more for prescriptions than anyone else in the world?
do you like that white christians are now represented as the source of all evil and suffering?
do you like that generations of poor americans are hooked on entitlements, on purpose?

i could go on, but really, what the fuck about democrats is good?
 

Forgetful Coyote

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i would still like somebody to tell me what part of the democrat platform they support.
do you like killing babies after they are already out of the mom and crying?
do you like meth, fentanyl, heroin and sex traffickers?
do you like forcing poor families to send their kids to public school failure factories that graduate <25% of the kids that go there?
do you like to force the already poor families to struggle to find affordable housing because illegals will pack in there to make the rent affordable?
do you like that convicted rapists can hop a fence (if there is one) to come back and rape some more?
do you like that kate steinle was murdered and her killer not punished?
do you like foreign wars that slaughter muslim goat herders while our brothers and sisters come back in coffins and wheelchairs?
do you like that tens of thousands of americans are hooked on opioids by unscrupulous doctors and end up dying of overdoses, every fucking year?
do you like that we pay more for prescriptions than anyone else in the world?
do you like that white christians are now represented as the source of all evil and suffering?
do you like that generations of poor americans are hooked on entitlements, on purpose?

i could go on, but really, what the fuck about democrats is good?
Also
“do you like the 2A being completely destroyed?”
“do you like innocent people getting killed(over 30 so far) by BLM/Antifa rioters and 100’s of millions of dollars worth of property damage? And the Biden/Harris staff themselves paying for bail and financially supporting said rioters?”
“do you like unprecedented numbers of wildfires, with many being arson, and the arsonists going free?”
 
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theLBC

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This place needs a group hug.
you know what the #1 answer i get from people is?
they support public schools. they think school choice undermines public school funding.
they think that instead of charters and school choice, more money should be spent on the schools that are failing.
the problem is they missed the story buried behind the russia hoax and other bullshit after the election.
a report came out on a program where obama pumped $7 billion into a small number of chronically failing schools.
they tried everything with an almost unlimited budget.
they tried tutors and mentoring, long days, shorter days, smaller classes, new incentives for the teachers, parent outreach, after school programs...
they tried everything democrats will still claim is needed to fix these failure factories.
the only thing that worked at all was replacing all the teachers and the principal, basically creating a new school. they immediately got higher test scores.
that part might not be in this story. despite the failure, democrat still claim it is because of funding.
why? every child's future they can destroy is another poor kid trapped in poverty that they can fool into voting for them.
coming from a poor family with an immigrant wife, can you see why i despise democrats so much?

 
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theLBC

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#2 answer is they want universal healthcare. free shit and i am not joking about that.

if i go to doctor and pay some copay for a bottle of prescription cough syrup, i can get $150 or more on the street from people hooked on purple drank.
now imagine if purple drank dude can just go to the doctor coughing on his blunt smoke and get a free bottle?
or viagra, or whatever? rapists that can't get rid of their boners?
people fail to consider how much it will be abused, and then rationed or controlled so we have to jump through hoops to get shitty care by people that don't give a fuck because you got nowhere else to go.

 

Longhorn in Utah

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Holy shit! Like 10 comments in one day of people being nice and respectful to each other. Maybe there is hope after all.

Uh-oh, did I just open myself up for troll bashing?

Oh well, fuck it, it’s still impressive for the 2020 Bear Pit. Good job people!
 

357Max

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When Trump announced in 2015 I thought, owe swell this pompous ass may well grenade any conservative chance at the election. I was a Scott Walker/Ted Cruze fan. I really thought he was a Rhino closet liberal.
As the primary race continued I took note of several things he said amidst all the BS.

The highlight for me was this:
He openly admitted to being a swamp creature albeit from a different swamp (business) and talked about how that gave him an edge knowing how the political corruption functioned. He'd had to deal with these political goat fuckers to get his projects approved.
For context, I work for a very large construction firm that will not do business in New York, New Jersey, or Boston for this very reason. If you aren't willing to prostitute your ethics then working there is not an option & it's been that way for a long time. I knew right then that he was not only telling the truth, but that he was spot on and not interested in becoming part of the political swamp. No he planned to use his inside knowledge against them!

When he won the nomination in 2016 I wanted a little more background and found this clip among others. Very consistent with what he was saying during his campaign. If you take the time to listen to this video from 1987, keep in mind it was done as a result of Trump taking out a full page add in the New York times @ a cost of $95,000 his own money cause he was pissed about our foreign policy & Reagan was president at the time.
Then he gave us a list of his potiential supreme court picks for us, the people to judge prior to his election. Who else has ever done that?

I was definitely warming up to him, but mindful of a wise saying my father told me when I was 8. "consequences always bear out the truth"

Being an optimistic cynic by nature I voted for him in 16 with hope & low expectations.

He has far exceeded my expectations. Someone else up thread mentioned they hate executive orders & I tend to agree, but used in the right context they serve a purpose. I despised most of Obama's perverse EO's & I'd like to challenge any Democrat on here to give me an example of an Obama executive order that wasn't perverse and directly benefited US citizens?????
Below is an example of one of Trumps executive orders that will due just that. If he gets another term, it will begin to bear fruit!
This is justified in my mind for 2 reasons:
  1. He gave a charge to congress to due this & gave them 3 1/2 years (nothing).
  2. The pharmaceutical company's are in so many politicians pockets I dought this would ever happen were it left to them.
I think it's a very well written and extremely strategically effective executive order. Once the people have experienced the benafits they will demand it be codified into law by 2024. Also because it is a EO it gives cover to the crooked fucker legislators beholden to big pharma.
Of course you didn't hear jack shit about it cause Orange man bad!

While I'm on a roll, look at the Israeli peace treaty just signed. I don't know if it will work long term but it's Fucking brilliant. First Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem and officially recognized it as their capital (promised by many presidents since 1948). UN voted to condemn us for it, but Orange man doesn't give a shit! This was a key first step & sent a strong message to our Arab pseudo allies. We have a bad reputation for leaving our allies holding the bag so this action was critical. Then Trump does the unexpected and negotiates a peace treaty between Israel, UAE, & Bahrain fully normalizing relations while completely ignoring Palestine (Brilliant). There will be other Arab's joining & now when Palestinian Rockets rain down on Jerusalem, they'll be hitting UAE, Bahrain embassy's (not wise). He's creating a strategic alliance that will force Palestine to negotiate reasonably when they're finally brought back to the table.

You never Trumper types need to turn off the CNN/MSNBC cesspool and educate yourselves with some good independent non swamp thinkers like Michael Savage or Ben Shapiro. How many of you know that CNN/MSNBC are not regulated by the FCC? This was by design, unlike all other local news radio etc.

Below are snippets taken directly from the FCC on their stance for regulated broadcast news & the fact they do not regulate content of cable news.
1600229347075.png

CNN = Cable News Network (Hint).
1600229370994.png

The above is a big Fucking problem for our country. We have a huge segment of our population that are drugged via antidepressants, psychotropics of various flavors, & now marijuana cards. They are very suggestible & we see this playing out in Potland, Seattle, & MN.
My Father was a wise man and indeed the consequences are revealing the truth.

There's a lot wrong with this country and certainly Trump cant fix it all, but he is all that's standing in the breach right now and I'm 100% voting for him.

To the snow flakes that think he's mean here's an analogy. If you were after an enemy combatant that ran into a hole would you want to send a poodle or a Malinois after him? Soros, Bloomberg, Antifa, BLM, & many more are the enemy combatants we're facing.

I'll end with this.
If the only thing Trump promised to due in the next four years was to appoint 1 more Supreme court justice from his list, I'd vote for him.
He could give his inaugural speech with his dick hanging out for all I care!
 

mkollman74

Quo Vadis?
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You aren't voting for Trump. This election is not Trump vs Biden. This election is for which direction you want this country to head. Do you want it to veer towards communism (not socialism, communism) or do you still believe in our Republic? You don't have to like the man, you n=do need to man up and recognize the consequences of your choice...
 

oldfart80

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I never liked Trump, First saw him on Tv firing his employees. I think it was n Oprah. He was very pompous and straight forward with everything he does and has no sentiment. Never liked him but i started watch his deeds, I read some of his books and later realized the kinda person he is. The world will be better if we had more Donald Trump.
 

Aries256

Fuck pantifa pansies.
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Call me crazy, or a relic, or naive ... but my vote will never be earned by someone I would not want my grandchildren to listen to or emulate. Truth matters, civility is necessary, and collaboration may be difficult to find right now, but it's out there ... somewhere ... waiting for our country to re-embrace it. Like every politician, some of Trump's policies I love, and some I hate ... I felt the same way about President Obama. Every vote is an exercise in "intellectual" compromise, but it should not be an exercise in "ethical" compromise. But seeing what I've seen and knowing what I know now, voting to reelect President Trump wouldn't be a compromise ... it would be an abdication of everything I believe is necessary to earn the right to lead, and be followed. Honestly, that's just how I roll. I will swallow hard, hope for the best, plan for the worst, and color in the dot next to Biden/Harris on my safe and legal mail-in ballot (dropped off with plenty of time for delivery). Note ... Oregon has been a 100% Vote-By-Mail state for over a decade, and it works extremely well.
And look at oregon now.
 

Fig

Janitor of the Hide
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Brother against brother IS their plan. The level of hatred on the left is insane, and it will be what ends all of them.
Given the choice I will always fight fanatics over professionals.
Not a new member by any stretch, and I both help and get help on this forum regularly, and enjoy it a lot. The original post asked a valid question, and it caught my attention. I answered it honestly, not realizing it was a trap. Since then, I have been called a Communist, a destroyer of our Constitution, an Antifa Baby-Killer, and been provided instructions on how to perform gay sex on the 2016 Democratic candidate ... that was an odd one. (And those were the "polite" responses.) Through that experience, I've tried to be honest, civil and introspective about my "centrist" independent leanings, and my deep personal concerns about the current President. Participating was a mistake, I freely admit it. I've learned from this to just stick to the ballistics forums. This was one of very few participation attempts in the Bear Pit. Now I know how the forum got it's name.
i don’t think you’re any of those things. You’re just a fucking moron who believes everything you see in CNN, or maybe it’s MSNBC. I know because you mirror their opinions: thinks wildfires are caused by “anthropogenic global climate change”, there are no Antifa riots in American cities (just mostly peaceful protests against the epidemic of police brutality), and that there is no voter fraud despite dozens of cases prosecuted every election, and rules that have been gutted down to the honor system.
Your little speech about ethics and virtue is ash in your mouth. It’s the difference between sweet talkers who are snakes, and rough talkers who believe they’re judged by their actions.
On the side of Antifa and BLM is an enemy. Only when it’s civil and one side doesn’t want a communist revolution can it be a disagreement and one side the loyal opposition. There’s no one left on the Democrats who are loyal opposition. They’ve gone full retard, and I think we’re going to get to see who really believes. Because even thought you’re voting for all those things, I don’t think you’re bad. The shooting has already started, and the fact you aren’t involved pretty much tells me you’re not truly on board. That would be ok if you were on the right. The left won’t tolerate it, so you had better stay away from all your fellow travelers, because they may not eat you last.
Society IS breaking down. Talk is heated, but you’re going to miss it and wish for it when we’ve had enough and quit talking.
 

Bwhntr53

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I do think that everyone is on board. Problem is the Democrat run cities and States are on board with letting their cities being torn apart. If you happen to live in one of these cities they have tied your hands if you try to go against them and do something about what they are doing YOU are the one who is going to jail. This presidential election is not only about Biden, this election is about the far reaching left wing wanting to destroy America. So a vote for Biden is a vote to destroy America. Just last night in one of Bidens speeches he said ""Harris and Biden "". He is not fit to lead himself let alone America. Remember I said the Democrats. They want power over the people of America. Right now the leftist party are preparing for the election outcome. Biden is saying now rioting and looting is wrong. But is he going to these cities in these States where the rioters are as the presidential candidate? If he is I haven't seen him. Trump is staying out of the cities because he knows that it would only create more unrest. Right now Trump is walking quietly and carrying a big stick. He gets elected and those that have destroyed our cities will feel the thunder of that stick. As a said a vote for Biden is a vote to destroy America. A vote for Trump is a vote for rights of the American people. I step down from my soapbox now. One last thing. Good will always Trump evil. All of us here are good people. And never underestimate the silent majority.
 
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louu

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Aug 4, 2020
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Nope, I started this thread to see why people who hated Trump and their reasons. I'm tired of hearing about the laws he's broken when they can't cite those laws. I don't understand how after 3+ years of the country being turned around like never before, folks still can't seem to say anything nice about the President. How they can blame him for these Covid19 deaths when it was governors who placed the sick in nursing homes. He basically banned the world from coming into the US within 10 days of the official WHO notice.

I really just don't understand. Please, give me REASONS for your hate.
I know in some cases people do it for attention and to fit in.
 

louu

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Aug 4, 2020
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Be happy to take a stab at it ... please point me once again to the question. Thanks very much, my apologies for missing it.
I copied and pasted it

Hey bud I've never got to talk to anyone like you. I copied and pasted my post from earlier below. Can you quote this post and give me your thoughts. Please be thorough. Thanks man

I'm seriously not trying to sound like a dick here but this thread should really be titled "if your a never Trumper, what are you doing on a gun forum?"

Have you never Trumpers looked at bidens gun control plan on his website. I know all the liberals that have guns always say, all liberal politicians say that stuff but they will never actually do any of that stuff. What they don't realize is every day these liberal politicians write anti gun bills and eventually one of them is going to stick to the Wall. It might not be a big one but they will keep chipping away little by little until we are completely disarmed. That is a fact because people in power are never satisfied with anything, they want more and more.

Politics is simple.
1. Vote for the guy that won't raise your taxes.
2. Vote for the guy that won't take your guns away.
3. Vote for the guy that won't shut down your career.

To add to this though because I was called out on 2 of them. I did use generalizations in my 3 bullet points. To clarify a little on #2 if the government makes ownership of some of my firearms illegal and wants to take them away.... Let's see, I can act like a tough guy and have myself and most likely my family killed or just get rid of them.
On #3 I'm a union boilermaker and Obama did end my career.
 

rustyinbend

GySgt USMC 1976-1992
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I copied and pasted it

Hey bud I've never got to talk to anyone like you. I copied and pasted my post from earlier below. Can you quote this post and give me your thoughts. Please be thorough. Thanks man

I'm seriously not trying to sound like a dick here but this thread should really be titled "if your a never Trumper, what are you doing on a gun forum?"

Have you never Trumpers looked at bidens gun control plan on his website. I know all the liberals that have guns always say, all liberal politicians say that stuff but they will never actually do any of that stuff. What they don't realize is every day these liberal politicians write anti gun bills and eventually one of them is going to stick to the Wall. It might not be a big one but they will keep chipping away little by little until we are completely disarmed. That is a fact because people in power are never satisfied with anything, they want more and more.

Politics is simple.
1. Vote for the guy that won't raise your taxes.
2. Vote for the guy that won't take your guns away.
3. Vote for the guy that won't shut down your career.

To add to this though because I was called out on 2 of them. I did use generalizations in my 3 bullet points. To clarify a little on #2 if the government makes ownership of some of my firearms illegal and wants to take them away.... Let's see, I can act like a tough guy and have myself and most likely my family killed or just get rid of them.
On #3 I'm a union boilermaker and Obama did end my career.
I think the core question (amidst all the editorial) is ... "What's a never-Trumper doing on a gun forum?"

The answer is (a) I'm not a "Never-Trumper", I'm a "Can't Vote For A Liar" voter. I'm not saying I could never vote for him. I'm saying based upon his divisiveness, dishonesty, and several policies I find abhorrent and morally bereft ... I can't vote for him. Probably can't vote for Biden either. Noted earlier, I'll probably write in my father ... who was the most decent, honorable, and intelligent man I've ever known.

The other answer is (b) I'm on a gun forum because I love shooting, marksmanship, and am getting damn good at competing at long ranges (1 mile or more). This forum is a great place to help others, and get help. My mistake was getting sucked into a political debate. I missed the "Do you intend to vote to reelect Trump" question in 2018 when I joined this forum ... sorry ... didn't know it was a prerequisite.

My question to you is ... Do you think being a "Trump Forever" Fox-News sycophant means we should prohibit the exercise of free speech and the ability to respect and protect diverse political viewpoints? I don't. I respect your opinion, will continue to seek to understand it, and believe you should vote your conscience and that vote should count just like everyone else's. That respect, that diversity, is what has made this country great. I fear the lack of it will be our undoing. We shall see ...
 

Choid

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I think the core question (amidst all the editorial) is ... "What's a never-Trumper doing on a gun forum?"

The answer is (a) I'm not a "Never-Trumper", I'm a "Can't Vote For A Liar" voter. I'm not saying I could never vote for him. I'm saying based upon his divisiveness, dishonesty, and several policies I find abhorrent and morally bereft ... I can't vote for him. Probably can't vote for Biden either. Noted earlier, I'll probably write in my father ... who was the most decent, honorable, and intelligent man I've ever known.

The other answer is (b) I'm on a gun forum because I love shooting, marksmanship, and am getting damn good at competing at long ranges (1 mile or more). This forum is a great place to help others, and get help. My mistake was getting sucked into a political debate. I missed the "Do you intend to vote to reelect Trump" question in 2018 when I joined this forum ... sorry ... didn't know it was a prerequisite.

My question to you is ... Do you think being a "Trump Forever" Fox-News sycophant means we should prohibit the exercise of free speech and the ability to respect and protect diverse political viewpoints? I don't. I respect your opinion, will continue to seek to understand it, and believe you should vote your conscience and that vote should count just like everyone else's. That respect, that diversity, is what has made this country great. I fear the lack of it will be our undoing. We shall see ...
So here is my quibble with that, and it is small. There is no doubt that Trump has a, shall we say, convenient relationship with the truth. But if we put down the line in the sand, "I can't vote for a liar," then I think we have kind of given up our ability to vote at all. There is no honest man in politics, and they are not little lies these guys are telling. For some of them, and I include Biden and Trump in this group, their lies are definitional to their constructed political identities, and to their motivations for running. So, what I am suggesting, is that you cannot vote if you can't vote for a liar, and if that is so, you either are going to vote for the guy who you perceive to be less of a liar, or the one you perceive to have more beneficial policy. The former is a ridiculous standard, so in the end, rationally, policy has to win out.
 

theLBC

Shiftless
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jun 21, 2019
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I think the core question (amidst all the editorial) is ... "What's a never-Trumper doing on a gun forum?"

The answer is (a) I'm not a "Never-Trumper", I'm a "Can't Vote For A Liar" voter. I'm not saying I could never vote for him. I'm saying based upon his divisiveness, dishonesty, and several policies I find abhorrent and morally bereft ... I can't vote for him. Probably can't vote for Biden either. Noted earlier, I'll probably write in my father ... who was the most decent, honorable, and intelligent man I've ever known.
can you tell us what specific policies you find abhorrent, so we can understand better?

divisive? i think you watch too much don lemon.
 
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BufordTJustice

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Jan 9, 2019
163
184
49
There has been vigorous political debate since the founding of our country. Imagine the disscusions and debate over whether we stayed subjugated to the crown. Sure, the decorum was different? But no less intense. I'd wager a few heated moments. The platform for argument has changed...but the the circumstances have but little. We either continue to work for a "...more perfect union", one which provides all of us the freedoms we have enjoyed or...you vote Harris/Biden(or some ridiculous write in). Freedom is difficult, the most courageous have sacrificed for it. I do not take that lightly. We have allowed those freedoms to slowly erode in disguise of safety and security. Republican and democrat. It's long past time for patriots to stand up and speak out against "whatever it is that's going on"...anarchy. Socialism. Marxism. Communism. Call it what you will. Pick a side, argue away. I say
 

HMRamateur

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Feb 9, 2019
382
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I'm seriously not trying to sound like a dick here but this thread should really be titled "if your a never Trumper, what are you doing on a gun forum?"
they're fudds who think "at least my bolt actions will be safe", probably don't own any semis/AR's. They're just as much of a threat as the people who don't think anyone should own guns. Independents are just as bad too. What a waste of a vote. No independent will be elected, and even if an independent receives a large amount of votes, and everyone starts talking about how "there's a big shift in politics happening because this independent actually got a few more votes", that will all be forgotten about in a week. In Canada, we had a party pop up, the People's Party of Canada, after the leader of that party lost the race for the leader of the conservatives. They didn't win a single seat in the federal election, but what they did was steal crucial votes from the conservatives. If those votes in each riding went towards the conservatives, they would have won those ridings, and therefore more seats. The liberals won a minority government, even though the conservatives won the popular vote. This will happen to you guys too, if too many people decide that they're too good to vote for trump, but think Biden isn't fit for president.
 

Aries256

Fuck pantifa pansies.
Belligerents
Minuteman
Sep 26, 2019
1,706
2,342
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35
I think the core question (amidst all the editorial) is ... "What's a never-Trumper doing on a gun forum?"

The answer is (a) I'm not a "Never-Trumper", I'm a "Can't Vote For A Liar" voter. I'm not saying I could never vote for him. I'm saying based upon his divisiveness, dishonesty, and several policies I find abhorrent and morally bereft ... I can't vote for him. Probably can't vote for Biden either. Noted earlier, I'll probably write in my father ... who was the most decent, honorable, and intelligent man I've ever known.

The other answer is (b) I'm on a gun forum because I love shooting, marksmanship, and am getting damn good at competing at long ranges (1 mile or more). This forum is a great place to help others, and get help. My mistake was getting sucked into a political debate. I missed the "Do you intend to vote to reelect Trump" question in 2018 when I joined this forum ... sorry ... didn't know it was a prerequisite.

My question to you is ... Do you think being a "Trump Forever" Fox-News sycophant means we should prohibit the exercise of free speech and the ability to respect and protect diverse political viewpoints? I don't. I respect your opinion, will continue to seek to understand it, and believe you should vote your conscience and that vote should count just like everyone else's. That respect, that diversity, is what has made this country great. I fear the lack of it will be our undoing. We shall see ...
Well then never vote for a politican, esp a career one. Esp not biden or kameltoe, those two idiots wouldnt know the truth if it bit them in the ass.
 

Forgetful Coyote

Sergeant
Belligerents
Dec 13, 2011
2,243
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Georgia
Even El Chapo Guzmán is a fan of Trump, calls Obama a irresponsible coward, according to his lawyer. Say what you will about the man, you don’t become the head of a billion dollar empire, and accumulate 100’s of millions of dollars in the shark tank environment of international drug trafficking by being a dumbass..
 

rustyinbend

GySgt USMC 1976-1992
Belligerents
Minuteman
Dec 9, 2018
536
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Bend, Oregon
It's been an interesting debate guys ... I appreciate the civil discourse, and I totally understand the ... um ... less-than-civil perspectives.
I'm gonna bow out, and move on to more productive activities.
The glory of Democracy is when men of good conscience and righteous intent, can disagree and remain friends.
This has been a "glorious" experience.
May God shine his mercy on our great country, and help us all to discern the right path into the future.
 
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theLBC

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Jun 21, 2019
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It's been an interesting debate guys ... I appreciate the civil discourse, and I totally understand the ... um ... less-than-civil perspectives.
I'm gonna bow out, and move on to more productive activities.
The glory of Democracy is when men of good conscience and righteous intent, can disagree and remain friends.
This has been a "glorious" experience.
May God shine his mercy on our great country, and help us all to discern the right path into the future.
you dropped a bomb about trump doing "abhorrent" things, but you cannot offer even one example?
good riddance.
 

ChadChadson

God Emperor
Minuteman
Aug 30, 2020
53
24
12
You come here with little posts and you start calling people names. Ever hear of Dale Carnegie? Probably not.
Read the posts that I was responding to earlier... My opinion ignited rage amongst those who have trouble forming actual arguments.

If ‘ok, boomer’ is that offensive, i’ll give you some safe space😉
 

357Max

Sergeant of the Hide
Hessian
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Sep 11, 2019
485
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Marylandistan
Trump is basically the republican Bulworth & I like it! Political creatures on both sides not so much.

If Biden ever told the truth it would go something like this :ROFLMAO: