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New Gap10...problem

paindoc

paindoc

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 7, 2008
189
0
Peoples Republic of Michigan
Just tried to shoot my new 308 Gap10.
Federal match 168
SWA 175
Pmag

Bolt stuck in closed position after every round fired. From first to the 15th. Had to gently pry the bolt back in order to extract spent case.

Unsuppressed. Suppressed. No matter. Same issues.

Velocity stable at 2700

Before I send it back I need some advice as to something I can do on my end.
This is my second Gap. First one was awesome.
Help.


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Sounds like your gas block isn't in the right position and not getting the gas from the barrel to operate the action .Is the gas block and adjustable one ? Maybe its turned off .Or it just might be turned a little and the holes of the barrel and the gas block are not lining up . Is the bolt stuck so tight you cant open the action with the handle? In that case it might be something more serious .
 
Good suggestion and that is what I thought. So I turned the block a couple of times. Then shot unsuppressed No luck. I did not check to see if holes were lining up. I will do that!


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I wonder if they installed your gas tube upside down. Sure sounds like you're not getting any gas.
 
I had a little problem with my gap 10 also. I believe the bolt was so tight that it would stick and I would have to pry it back. After about 100 rds it would work fine. I would try to keep the bolt lugs lubed. Good Luck
 
I would not hesitate to call and discuss it with them. George and his folks are very good, and on the rare times I've needed it their customer service is excellent.
 
Newsflash. After the excellent suggestions so far I decided to turn the switch block to the only location that is NOT marked with a letter. BAM BAM BAM. 20 rounds. No cycling problems. Suppressed. Does this mean incorrect switch block installation or am I doing something wrong?


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The gas is on the right The break in the middle & the clutch is on the left.
 
Kudos to George at GAP. He PM'd me and we are working the problem. Great customer service! Trying to figure out why the block has to be in the on position to cycle the gun. In the S position it won't cycle.


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kansas said:
I know this can happen with a AR15. Seen it done.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it can happen. However, most gas tubes have a bend in them and to assemble it upside down means it needs to bend into the receiver. I would be suprised if one could even clear a function check. Anyone who doesn't catch that during insatllation does not need to be working on rifles.
 
The unmarked position is the normal position. That's the one it should be on when shooting unsuppressed. The "O" position is for off, which means the gun will be in single shot mode and will not cycle the bolt. The "S" position is for suppressed.
 
paindoc said:
Kudos to George at GAP. He PM'd me and we are working the problem. Great customer service! Trying to figure out why the block has to be in the on position to cycle the gun. In the S position it won't cycle.


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Click to expand...

You would think GAP would have caught this during test fire and systems check???
 
OK, so I've never owned a GAP before, but after about 2 to 3 people posting issues recently is GAP is making the chambers too tight?


paindoc said:
Just tried to shoot my new 308 Gap10.
Federal match 168
SWA 175
Pmag

Bolt stuck in closed position after every round fired. From first to the 15th. Had to gently pry the bolt back in order to extract spent case.

Unsuppressed. Suppressed. No matter. Same issues.

Velocity stable at 2700

Before I send it back I need some advice as to something I can do on my end.
This is my second Gap. First one was awesome.
Help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
S is for suppressed, normally... However the Switchblock is shown in the "Off" position.

Switchblock_zps8c8eaf9f.jpg
 
What would a I or a gunsmith have to do to "tune" my gun with my suppressor. Since my gun will not will not cycle in the S position but only cycles in the non marked open position what exactly has to be done to fix this?


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paindoc said:
The Noveske web site has nothing on their switch blocks. Does anyone know where I can get technical info on this?


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Click to expand...

If this weapon came from GAP and you expressed interest in running a suppressor AND asked for a switchblock I can only wonder why GAP didn't tell you exactly what the process is??

Historically they do not tune the switchblock unless you send in your suppressor. Hopefully you have already called them and they have explained all this.
 
paindoc said:
What would a I or a gunsmith have to do to "tune" my gun with my suppressor. Since my gun will not will not cycle in the S position but only cycles in the non marked open position what exactly has to be done to fix this?


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Click to expand...

The 's' position means a bit less gas going to your BCG because a suppressor creates backpressure. They could open up your gas port a little but then you might overgas the rifle. If it is working right now don't screw with it, you may find later as parts wear in that your rifle runs fine on 'normal' with that same ammunition or that using a 'hotter' load like superformance necessitates the use of the suppressed setting.

Basically if it is working I wouldn't fuck with it.
 
Indeed I did tell them that I would be running a suppressor and gave them the exact suppressor model that I would be using when I ordered the rifle over a year ago. I also requested the switch block at the time of my order. Unfortunately I did not receive any information about the switch lock nor did I receive any information regarding tuning of the rifle to my own suppressor. The only information that I received with the rifle was regarding cleaning of the rifle and barrel break in as well as the use of specific ammunition and to be careful about pressures of handloads.


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Sometimes if its a common supressor and they have the same model at the shop I have heard they will not require your suppressor, but if they dont then you need to send yours in along with the rifle. This is usually done before the rifle ships out. From what i remember they do not send any instructions with the switchblock, but things may have changed. You really need to contact them! If they did not have a suppressor to work with they will not guess-therefore the switchblock will be non-functional in the suppressed setting.
 
I love my GAP bolt gun but this past couple of months every time i click on the semi section there is a thread about some issue with a GAP10. I understand all companies can have issues but for a true custom rifle these problems should be caught before the rifle leaves the shop.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
Send it back to GAP and let them fix it. There's no reason a gun that costs that much shouldn't function 100%.
Click to expand...

That's my concern.

I, like several other posters here, have a GAP-10 on order. It's not an inexpensive rifle. Although I'm not intending to run mine suppressed intially, I did order the Noveske switchblock. I had expected it would come with instructions as to the settings.

Posts like this are making me nervous that if my GAP-10 has reliablity issues out of the box, it will take half a dozen phone calls to George and 2 return-ships to get it functioning. (I have no doubt that it's accuracy will be superior, as experienced by others.) Given the price, that's additional hassle and, frankly, unreasonable expense which the purchaser shouldn't have to incur just to shoot factory match ammo (suppressed or not) or his own competently produced handloads. :(
 
I don't use my can yet, but I have shot 175 fgmm, mk316 mod o, m118 lr and even mk319. Mk319 is light and very hot. (I rarely shoot the 319 in my gap 10.) I have had NO issues.

I sent them a box or 2 of each to run though the gun before it shipped. I think that was very beneficial.
 
#1 The OP had the Rifle in the Off position. It runs fine in the Normal position, I informed the OP that he had it in the wrong position and once he switched it it runs. The blank position is the Normal Position. O is Off and S is suppressed.

#2 We normally require that the buyer send their suppressor for the Switch block to be tuned in this case the OP was using a can that we had so we tuned it to ours. My mistake as apparently all cans are different or the ammo he is using is different pressure curve. It will most likely work 100% perfect once it has a couple hundred rounds threw it. "Brake in" as the rifles tend to smooth out like a new engine and run better/faster.

#3 95% of what you see on here in complaints are suppressor related which is why I personally wont run suppressor/semi auto combinations, they are very temperamental and ammo sensitive. I have wrote huge articles here on why its a bad Idea and that if you want this combo you will have to select ammo that runs clean and also be prepared to clean your rifle about 5-6 times as much as running unsupressed.

#4 I just got back from back to back weekends at Rifles only for the Bushnell Brawl and JC Steel in WA state,, the first in Texas with blowing dust everywhere 3 guys running GAP-10's 1 308 and 2- 6mm Creedmoors. Not one single failure in a 225 round 2 day event.

JC steel 2 GAP 10's not sure of caliber, Frigid Cold with snow and sleet. again no failures and it was am 228 round event. I think I shot 170 or so as the snow caused the event to end early.

My point the system is solid and works like its supposed to. Some guys are inexperienced and apparently would rather post on here than call me or the shop. I can normally walk them through the problems they are having.

Guys please call me if you have an issue, I guarantee I will get it taken care of.


George
 
Seems to me that guys that are having problems with the Gap 10 are either running reloads and are not sizing their brass correctly, don't know how to work the Noveske gas block, or are not running good quality match ammo. This is a match rifle meant for match ammo. I have 600 perfect rounds thru mine running Fgmm 175's and Copper Creek Gas gun loads. Not sure why anyone would run anything different than that. Both are extremely accurate out to 1,000 yards in this rifle, and trouble free.

This is just my opinion and experiences with the rifle.

I also run mine kinda wet. I have been using Frog lube and it's been great, just switched to Fireclean to see which I like best.
 
Not that Doc needs it, but in his defense he is probably hyper-sensitive after a couple of us shared our GAP-10 experiences with him last August after a PR class. Hang in there Doc!
 
My year old order, clearly states they will call for suppressor. As well as conversation with Dustin that even though I have a 30-p, as do hundreds of others, that I will need to have the rifle/block tuned to my can specific at the later stage of the build. So, I spent the jack to get it there overnight.
Anyone slinging subs in the Off position?
 
Last edited:
I have 2 Gap-10s (308,6 Creed) and depending on the match layout, I have no issues running them. Finished well twice at Woodies with one and had a strong finish at the First Grind with the 6 Creed.I would wager my 308 ran 600 rounds of 118lr without a hiccup Day and night in a nasty week long train-up at K&M without one drop of cleaning, not even a wipe down. It is a solid system. If you watch these threads, Most issues are something other than rifle construction, and sometimes it can be as simple as the Gas turned off. But when there is even a remote chance of it being a rifle, The guy who ownes the company is hear answering questions. Where else in the world do you get that service? Go on another site and tell about your XYZ having issues and see how you are treated by the fanboys.

Am I A GAP Fan Boy? Sure, years ago the man helped me into a rifle when I had no business trying to afford one, and thanks to the fact that he supports the sport TREMENDOUSLY through prize table rifles, I now have more of them that I could not have bought. So when it came time to buy a new rifle, Guess what i did?
I also have fine rifles from John Pierce (Prize Table Pierce action), Accurate Ordnance and a Killer 308 of my sons that Dave Walker built when he was at Patriot Arms with Jerrod that came off the Table at Allegheny. See a pattern? Support these guys that are supporting our sport.
 
I feel the need to defend George. I posted my question to the hide at the same time I PM'd George. The info I received on the hide was extremely beneficial. George answered my PM very quickly and indeed the gun cycles with suppressor now in the full open position but will not in the open position. I will keep it clean and let 200 rounds determine if it improves George answered me immediately and for that I am very impressed and grateful. I also am grateful for this forum as the depth of knowledge exceed mine exponentially. Yes it is an expensive rifle and as long as I get quick attention to fix the problem I am satisfied.


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I concur with George's sentiment when it comes to running a gas gun with suppressor. Don't care for the extra fouling in my uppers, don't care for the grunge on fired brass, and don't think it's worth the trouble - the volume of noise that comes out the ejection port kinda negates the benefits of the can to the shooter. Love my cans on bolt rifles, but am flat not impressed with cans on gas guns.

To each his own...
 
flatland1 said:
I concur with George's sentiment when it comes to running a gas gun with suppressor. Don't care for the extra fouling in my uppers, don't care for the grunge on fired brass, and don't think it's worth the trouble - the volume of noise that comes out the ejection port kinda negates the benefits of the can to the shooter. Love my cans on bolt rifles, but am flat not impressed with cans on gas guns.

To each his own...
Click to expand...

I agree and it plan on shooting the rifle mostly unsuppressed but I want the option to shoot suppressed.



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Another suggestion for AR-10 break-in: lube the bejesus out of the BCG. I've never owned a GAP-10, but have owned/run enough AR10s to know they need excessive lube during break-in, and not enough lube often manifests itself as a short-stroke, extract/eject issue.

Lube. Lube. LUBE!
 
My friend just received his Gap 10 after about a year wait time . He's on the SWAT team with his Dept. . He was having issues also and had to send it back . Last I knew its still at Gap . Bummer . I'm hoping I don't have any issues when I get my new 308 .
 
flatland1 said:
I concur with George's sentiment when it comes to running a gas gun with suppressor. Don't care for the extra fouling in my uppers, don't care for the grunge on fired brass, and don't think it's worth the trouble - the volume of noise that comes out the ejection port kinda negates the benefits of the can to the shooter. Love my cans on bolt rifles, but am flat not impressed with cans on gas guns.

To each his own...
Click to expand...

While Mr. Gardner has way more experience with many gas guns, my experience with both of my ar308s and the ones i've shot against has been different(except for the cleaning part). Once I got both of them tuned properly to my loads or factory ammo I've never had a malfunction shooting suppressed and has actually shown better accuracy. It is a bit dirtier but has not negatively effected the rifle during matches.
 
Last edited:
Pretty simple to figure out.

From your OP you said stuck. If it's just not cycling it's a gas issue. The way the rifle functions no gas = no cycle.

If you can't pull the bolt manually it's a t
 
Pretty simple to figure out.

From your OP you said stuck. If it's just not cycling it's a gas issue. The way the rifle functions no gas = no cycle.

If you can't pull the bolt manually it's a machining issue. Something isn't right.


But if you can manually rack the rifle fine it just means your rifle is getting no gas or very little. So make sure the gas tube is in working order, or the gas block is working as designed.


I'm sure it's already been answered for how many replies this has but I'm at work and didn't have time to read all. Just answered the OP.

So if completely stuck. Call GAP. If just not cycling it's a gass issue. Probably under gassed or not aligned wih the gas port properly. Easy fix.
 
Rancid Coolaid said:
Another suggestion for AR-10 break-in: lube the bejesus out of the BCG. I've never owned a GAP-10, but have owned/run enough AR10s to know they need excessive lube during break-in, and not enough lube often manifests itself as a short-stroke, extract/eject issue.
Lube. Lube. LUBE!
Click to expand...

Just curious, what lube do you use?
 
Socomxxx said:
My friend just received his Gap 10 after about a year wait time. He's on the SWAT team with his Dept. He was having issues also and had to send it back. Last I knew its still at Gap. ***
Click to expand...

Is this his personal rifle or was he intending to deploy it on call-outs with his Dept.?
Not that it matters, I guess, problems are still problems.
 
Socomxxx said:
My friend just received his Gap 10 after about a year wait time . He's on the SWAT team with his Dept. . He was having issues also and had to send it back . Last I knew its still at Gap . Bummer . I'm hoping I don't have any issues when I get my new 308 .
Click to expand...

This rifle came back because the dept used 155 Hornady TAP. It's a light load. And the rifle had to be tuned to it. It ran other ammo fine.


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