Not to be negative, but I hope it's fast to update... a Kestrel didn't utilize a lot of these functions, however provided accurate data time after time.
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Not to be negative, but I hope it's fast to update... a Kestrel didn't utilize a lot of these functions, however provided accurate data time after time.
Not so much off, but turn the ping rate down. If you run gps in a high resolution mode, you burn more battery. If you change it to ultra-trac mode. You don't location report as often, thus saving battery.
The GPS is always running location, so if you update the Latitude in the device, it is as fast as you can push the button.
Garmin® was at our seminar this past Monday/Tuesday. They are not only taking the learning aspect of ballistics seriously, they were taking feedback from users at the event. They were even kind enough to offer a 35% discount to those who were attending the seminar. They are taking feedback very seriously. They weren't the only ones who were there either. NK was there, and so was Sig. Sig, Garmin, and NK got a chance to network and talk in person with us. All of whom took the inter connectivity feedback seriously. I am really excited to see where all of this takes us in a years time.
Couldn’t ask for a better step in the right direction.
Was this the Selma, NC seminar?
Sophia, and yes.
Pardon my ignorance, but who is NK?
Nielson-Kellerman, I assume. They make Kestrels. http://www.nkhome.com/kestrel/
Perhaps they've updated them, the one I've got works great. With the 701 you've got to update the temp manually but mine stays connected and the temp indicates the same temp as my kestrel.
Love the idea of having the entire library onboard. Well done.
I'd be curious to hear from those who've used both the Kestrel 5700 and Garmin Foretrex 701 which was easier to use - in other enter and view data. Does the AB software work differently on what is essentially a different hardware platform. I've played around with the Kestrel and found it be a pretty klunky UI but have been thinking about buying one because the only way to deal with a non-intuitive UI is to get familiar by using it a lot. But if the Foretex makes the software work more intuivtively then that's what I'd prefer to buy even though I'd have to enter temp and DA manually.
The Kestrel has directional arrows and an enter button. It from the start is easier to navigate than a Garmin. The Garmin controls takes some getting used to but after a bit it makes sense. If you aren't going to use it very often the Kestrel will be easier to pick up and use without re-familiarization.
That being said I think I'm partial to the Garmin UI.
From your index finger when you manually input it.
It recognizes input better if you don’t.
I'm running three different profiles at the moment for different rifles. I rename them to the caliber and for some reason the new names don't take. I've renamed them a few times now but when I go to switch profiles the caliber is gone and it's back to NEW1. Perhaps I'm missing a step ? Anyone else have this issue ? Aside from that I'm really liking this thing.
From what I can tell, this unit does not have the option of adding a micro chip for specific mapping options. I use the hunt unit maps in my Garmin GPS. Can someone who owns one confirm/deny?
Thanks, for the info...didn’t look like it.
Help me understand something, Garmin calls it a GPS navigator, but how do you navigate if there are no maps?
Doc, is there any update on the Garmin being able to sync with Kestrel or Weathermeter? Frank mentioned in episode #37 of the everyday sniper podcast that he's been communicating a lot with Garmin about linking the 701 with the Weathermeter, this would be ideal. Part of my aversion to the Kestrel is the tiny display, I would prefer something bigger and would prefer to have GPS with maps, I hoped the 701 would fulfill that role but doesn't quite sound like it.
You mentioned earlier in the thread that getting the Garmin to communicate with Kestrel or Weathermeter or Sig or anything like that is a discussion with the manufacturers; however, I do not see that going very far because each manufacturer wants exclusivity instead of sharing technology which is why we don't have a device today that links with others - Kestrel wants you to buy Kestrel products, Garmin wants you to buy Garmin products and Sig sig products and so forth. Sounds like we need someone within the industry to pioneer a product that can connect with all of them and allow the user to choose which other product they desire.
Why would I pay $700 for a Kestrel 5700AB and $600 for a Garmin 701AB and $1400 for a Sig Kilo 2400AB when they all have premiums for AB but I really only need one tool with AB? Why not a GPS with a great screen that can handle weather and temp extremes that has AB and can connect to Kestrel, Sig, Weathermeter and other BT devices? It seems like Applied Ballistics would be the right company to either have the product built or influence the other companies to shake hands and integrate with one another. Bushnell tried the approach with their CONX package for the LRF and Kestrel but without AB. Everyone these days wants to connect with iOS or Android, but soon enough people realize that smart phones are not outdoor devices and they break or malfunction easily with temperature extremes, or rain, etc. This is why I think the GPS companies hold the key, they already have the devices that can withstand temperature and have great screens easily visible in bright sun or dark night.
You mentioned earlier in the thread that getting the Garmin to communicate with Kestrel or Weathermeter or Sig or anything like that is a discussion with the manufacturers; however, I do not see that going very far because each manufacturer wants exclusivity instead of sharing technology which is why we don't have a device today that links with others - Kestrel wants you to buy Kestrel products, Garmin wants you to buy Garmin products and Sig sig products and so forth. Sounds like we need someone within the industry to pioneer a product that can connect with all of them and allow the user to choose which other product they desire.
Why would I pay $700 for a Kestrel 5700AB and $600 for a Garmin 701AB and $1400 for a Sig Kilo 2400AB when they all have premiums for AB but I really only need one tool with AB? Why not a GPS with a great screen that can handle weather and temp extremes that has AB and can connect to Kestrel, Sig, Weathermeter and other BT devices? It seems like Applied Ballistics would be the right company to either have the product built or influence the other companies to shake hands and integrate with one another. Bushnell tried the approach with their CONX package for the LRF and Kestrel but without AB. Everyone these days wants to connect with iOS or Android, but soon enough people realize that smart phones are not outdoor devices and they break or malfunction easily with temperature extremes, or rain, etc. This is why I think the GPS companies hold the key, they already have the devices that can withstand temperature and have great screens easily visible in bright sun or dark night.
You use pre-loaded waypoints, or breadcrumb trails to navigate. It just doesn't have streets or land boundaries like a typical vehicle mounted or phone based GPS. The GPS will tell you precisely where you are, but you have to translate that coordinate to a paper map. This style of GPS is a tool to be used in conjunction with map & compass, and is not meant to be a stand alone unit.
Thank you Luke, that helps, so it's more about navigational waypoints than it is vs. something like the Garmin Montana 680t.
Doc, any chance AB will make it's way into something more along the lines of a Topo map GPS system, this would be ideal for those of us who hunt.
My recommendation is to get well versed with land nav and use a map & compass in conjuction with the 701. That way if your batteries go dead you're not SOL. Using a map and the coordinates given to you by the 701 you can plot your location in about 15 seconds.
That's some good advice and getting back to the way I used to do things before my hiatus, I've been trying to get more serious lately now that I have a wee bit more time.
So if I understand this correctly, if I get the 701 I still have to manually input wind and temperature, but that's it, the 701 will do everything else for me right? So getting a nice cheap anenometer like the Kestrel 2000 would be entirely sufficient or am I missing something? The reason I ask is because right now I use the WeatherFlow WEATHERmeter BT version with BallisticARC app, but last time I was out it was a royal pain to read the screen of my iPhone with bright sunlight, that and the fact that if its raining out I am not going to risk ruining my iPhone SE just to run an app. I really like the idea of this wrist mounted device.
For my usual rifles , the AB Foretrex is replacing other methods for me . If I have to
build a profile quickly for someone else at the range or training I’ll still use phone as
the interface is faster , but in the field the 701 is excellent . At the distances I’m often
shooting , wind at firing point is less useful than downrange mirage , and reading the
usual environmental signs . Yes WJM , a cheap Kestrel and the 701 will work fine .
I’ve drowned my unit several times , banged it on rocks and generally mistreated it
and it hasn’t missed a beat . Having CDMs preloaded is excellent too .
build a profile quickly for someone else at the range or training I’ll still use phone as
the interface is faster , but in the field the 701 is excellent . At the distances I’m often
shooting , wind at firing point is less useful than downrange mirage , and reading the
usual environmental signs . Yes WJM , a cheap Kestrel and the 701 will work fine .
I’ve drowned my unit several times , banged it on rocks and generally mistreated it
and it hasn’t missed a beat . Having CDMs preloaded is excellent too .
Thanks for the info Clearlight, when you say "At the distances I’m often shooting , wind at firing point is less useful than downrange mirage" are you inferring that at longer ranges you've found wind at the shooter to have less affect but determining wind at distance by estimating mirage is better thus negating even using a wind device close up? I'm still trying to get a grip on wind and understanding its effects at longer ranges so feel free to enlighten me.
Also, you mentioned the 701 is replacing other methods, is it because of the larger display, I think that is what draws me the most to the 701 and I'm on the fence between just sticking with my phone/weathermeter and the 701 or 5700AB and I've even pondered biting the bullet and getting the new Zeiss ZF 10x42 with ballistics, but that is another solution dependent on app and smartphone and I feel that I'd like a hardier device/solution...
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Shooting ELR , wind at the firing point is a tiny part of the call . Obviously we want to
avoid shooting in a gust or short lull . What I find the Kestrel useful for , is observing
patterns in the pickups and dropoffs : sometimes there is a definite cycle . At my local
range in the afternoon , at this time of year , there is an easy 10oclock 5-7 mph wind .
That is easy to shoot , but we need to watch the 2 or 3 gusts that roll through every 3-5
minutes .
I teach guys to look at the trees for the wave , then eyeball the Kestrel to correlate what
the wind is doing to the trees / vegetation in the incoming direction of the wind , and the
max wind speed . That gives you the upper end of your bracket , and allows shooter to
build up a mental profile to ‘ see the wind “ . This is ok on flattish terrain , but in the hills
wind up valleys and terrain effects are another problem that only experience can deal with .
The 701 is way faster for me , it’s right there while you are on the rifle , and doesn’t need to
be connected to anything . If I’m shooting alone with no Kestrel , I can use it as wind
meter . Shoot your target with your best wind call , if call is off then just tweak the 701 wind
function till it lines up with where the miss was ( use the reticle ) . That is going to tell you
more about what wind is downrange than the Kestrel next to you .
avoid shooting in a gust or short lull . What I find the Kestrel useful for , is observing
patterns in the pickups and dropoffs : sometimes there is a definite cycle . At my local
range in the afternoon , at this time of year , there is an easy 10oclock 5-7 mph wind .
That is easy to shoot , but we need to watch the 2 or 3 gusts that roll through every 3-5
minutes .
I teach guys to look at the trees for the wave , then eyeball the Kestrel to correlate what
the wind is doing to the trees / vegetation in the incoming direction of the wind , and the
max wind speed . That gives you the upper end of your bracket , and allows shooter to
build up a mental profile to ‘ see the wind “ . This is ok on flattish terrain , but in the hills
wind up valleys and terrain effects are another problem that only experience can deal with .
The 701 is way faster for me , it’s right there while you are on the rifle , and doesn’t need to
be connected to anything . If I’m shooting alone with no Kestrel , I can use it as wind
meter . Shoot your target with your best wind call , if call is off then just tweak the 701 wind
function till it lines up with where the miss was ( use the reticle ) . That is going to tell you
more about what wind is downrange than the Kestrel next to you .
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Thank you clearlight that does help, I definitely need to practice more with wind. I am leaning more towards the Garmin as I like the larger readout and the thought of the waypoints with maps when hunting, that makes sense to me after Luke explained it.
I didn’t see a response to this. Did you?
Yes
Got the 701 a couple of weeks ago and so far I am really pleased with it.
One thought though, I was positive that the DOF would also change the wind call, but found this was not true.
For me, a great feature would be the possibility to input the wind according to the compass, 12.00 being N and 06.00 being S.
If at a range or match with multiple target directions, you would be able to set the wind for the actual conditions, and use DOF for each target to true the wind call in any direction accordingly.
Let's say you are at a range with multiple targets 180 degr. from W to E.
Wind is from W, so you would set the wind direction to 09.00.
Target A is measured with the 701 to 270 degr (W) so the wind call would be 0.
Target B is measured to 315 degr (NW), wind call would be 70% value.
Target C is measured to 0 degr (N), wind call would be full value.
If targets are setup properly in the 701 with correct DOF, correct wind calls would also be displayed in the target card.
It would still be easy to do wind calls according to shooter position, set DOF to 0 degr and input your wind direction as per normal.
Best regards,
Christian
One thought though, I was positive that the DOF would also change the wind call, but found this was not true.
For me, a great feature would be the possibility to input the wind according to the compass, 12.00 being N and 06.00 being S.
If at a range or match with multiple target directions, you would be able to set the wind for the actual conditions, and use DOF for each target to true the wind call in any direction accordingly.
Let's say you are at a range with multiple targets 180 degr. from W to E.
Wind is from W, so you would set the wind direction to 09.00.
Target A is measured with the 701 to 270 degr (W) so the wind call would be 0.
Target B is measured to 315 degr (NW), wind call would be 70% value.
Target C is measured to 0 degr (N), wind call would be full value.
If targets are setup properly in the 701 with correct DOF, correct wind calls would also be displayed in the target card.
It would still be easy to do wind calls according to shooter position, set DOF to 0 degr and input your wind direction as per normal.
Best regards,
Christian
Not that I have been able to find. Sure wish it would. I bought it with the expectation that you could do just this. I think AB/Garmin missed the boat on not designing this level of functionality into the 701. As a result, I continue to use my Kestrel 5700 most of the time...So close to getting it right.
Have they made any updates so these talk to kestrels?
i was also hoping to enter range and azimuth to tgt, and getting a hard location on the tgt
You kinda can do this. Its a pure GPS function. You make a waypoint, then go to: waypoints: select your waypoint -> options -> project.
Then You can enter bearing and distance. I use metric units, I only get to enter kilometers with one decimal place, so 100m resolution, barely good enough for land navigation.
Not sure why they make this stuff unnecessarily unprecise. My gripe with the foretrex is that it won't display distance to a target-waypoint in meters past 1000m. It changes to displaying kilometers with two decimal places, so 10m resolution. Not in anyway good enough for ELR. Completely unnecessary since GPS with WAAS, or GALILEO is precise within 1m which is the same You can expect from a LASER at those ranges. You definitly would expect a GPS be able to feed distance to target.
I've written to Garmin about this issue, it should be a simple fix.
As for using the compass for wind direction, that should be selectable. The compass is easily disturbed, and wind direction is far more critical than DOF. So using it would require calibration and some vigilance, but I definitely see the advantage for competitors.
I sure hope Garmin/AB are still looking to improve this product. Its damn near perfect (for me).
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