Hunting & Fishing  New Hunting Bullets Available

Westernhntr

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Dec 29, 2018
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I'm still trying to figure out why the 170's bc isn't coming close to advertised in my rifle..
I weighed them and they aren't 170 grains they're 168, is this normal? Seems like they'd be called 168 Cayugas instead
Has anyone else (third party) tried these at LR to verify the bc?
If someone wants to try them out in an 8 twist and report back I'll give away the rest of mine for testing if shipping is covered.
I only have 16 left though
 

Schw15

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    I'm still trying to figure out why the 170's bc isn't coming close to advertised in my rifle..
    I weighed them and they aren't 170 grains they're 168, is this normal? Seems like they'd be called 168 Cayugas instead
    Has anyone else (third party) tried these at LR to verify the bc?
    If someone wants to try them out in an 8 twist and report back I'll give away the rest of mine for testing if shipping is covered.
    I only have 16 left though
    Are you sure your barrel is a 8 twist? I would love to test them but i took my hunting barrel off already
     

    Westernhntr

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    Have you had someone measure it just to check? Because that is weird. Did you say you had bullets turn sideways in a paper target?
    They looked a little oblong initially but I was shooting the target at an angle on my property.
    I realigned and there were no abnormalities.
    They grouped sub 1"@ 200 yards so accuracy was there.
    I trust Benchmark they're top tier
     

    Schw15

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    They looked a little oblong initially but I was shooting the target at an angle on my property.
    I realigned and there were no abnormalities.
    They grouped sub 1"@ 200 yards so accuracy was there.
    I trust Benchmark they're top tier
    Just trying to offer up some help maybe thinking something isnt right. Yes but people mislabel things might be worth a shot to try to get it measured just in case. Crazy things happen all the. But keep us updated with the barrel and if it shoots other 1-8 twist bullets good
     

    prwillard2

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    I have a tight neck and i reach pressure faster than i should but i run the 151 at 3228 with imr 8133. But it hammers and i trust it. I do not trust berger bullets at all havent seen much good from them hunting wise but its limited but enough to scare me away. I really like these tough copper bullets and they open up great.
    I've got an 8 pounder of IMR 8133 at home I'll need to test out. Can you give me your powder charge and COAL for a start point?
     

    bohem

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    @bohem
    Is this what the 170 cayuga is supposed to weigh??
    View attachment 7485903
    The bullets vary across material lots. Material spec is only about 1%
    168/170 is right about where thebspec lies from lot to lot. When we ship bullets we pack them inside of material lot.

    If I post that they are 168s then 169s then 170.5s then 170s then 168.7s

    Seems confusing doesn't it? That is why I don't. And we aren't going to change designs every lot of material to match a weight because that will affect how they load.

    The 3rd party that shot them already was Cory Saxsma. A friend but not an internal test. He even used the bullets he paid for, I simply asked him to run the bullet out to 1000 to see what he got.

    Have you track tested your scope? There are several common error forms in drop testing bullets and the most common one is the scope tracking.
     
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    Westernhntr

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    The bullets vary across material lots. Material spec is only about 1%
    168/170 is right about where thebspec lies from lot to lot. When we ship bullets we pack them inside of material lot.

    If I post that they are 168s then 169s then 170.5s then 170s then 168.7s

    Seems confusing doesn't it? That is why I don't. And we aren't going to change designs every lot of material to match a weight because that will affect how they load.

    The 3rd party that shot them already was Cory Saxsma. A friend but not an internal test. He even used the bullets he paid for, I simply asked him to run the bullet out to 1000 to see what he got.

    Have you track tested your scope? There are several common error forms in drop testing bullets and the most common one is the scope tracking.
    Interesting
    I haven't shot many monos but Im used to bullets weighing as advertised, and the same from lot to lot.

    I have not done a tall target test with my scope yet (nx8), but I've put over 100 rounds through it in the past 3 weeks from 700 to 1030 yards with 175 ablrs and Berger 195's.
    Everything has added up perfectly on my vertical with the exception of the cayugas.
     

    bohem

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    Interesting
    I haven't shot many monos but Im used to bullets weighing as advertised, and the same from lot to lot.

    I have not done a tall target test with my scope yet (nx8), but I've put over 100 rounds through it in the past 3 weeks from 700 to 1030 yards with 175 ablrs and Berger 195's.
    Everything has added up perfectly on my vertical with the exception of the cayugas.

    Remember that jacketed bullets have the luxury of adding or subtracting lead as needed to hit the target weight and the jacket is a very small portion of the overall bullet weight.

    If you weigh the monolithic bullets in a lot the consistency is much tighter, typically +/- 0.03 to 0.05 grains in an entire batch

    I dont know why your rifle doesn't come up on them, the other rifles they have been shot from do just fine.

    But since you have such good luck with the other bullets and you don't like these then my suggestion would be to use something else. Several others are having very good results, why your rifle doesn't I can't say without seeing it and testing it. There isn't a lot of hard data provided for me to work with here.
     

    Westernhntr

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    Remember that jacketed bullets have the luxury of adding or subtracting lead as needed to hit the target weight and the jacket is a very small portion of the overall bullet weight.

    If you weigh the monolithic bullets in a lot the consistency is much tighter, typically +/- 0.03 to 0.05 grains in an entire batch

    I dont know why your rifle doesn't come up on them, the other rifles they have been shot from do just fine.

    But since you have such good luck with the other bullets and you don't like these then my suggestion would be to use something else. Several others are having very good results, why your rifle doesn't I can't say without seeing it and testing it. There isn't a lot of hard data provided for me to work with here.
    Yep I'll stick with the 195's
    Just bummed that the cayugas didn't work out and I'd like more user input on BC validation from other barrels.
    FWIW
    I weighed a bunch of mono bullets today and they were all within .2 grains of advertised weight.
    This included two different boxes of Barnes 212 LRX, a bag of cutting edge 168 MTH 7mms, and a bag of 140 6.5 MTH bullets.
     
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    Butler12

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    Josh,
    Just a quick question do you think I could run the 257 Seneca in a 7.5 twist 25 PRC?
     

    Schw15

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    Bullets and brakes, what is left of them. A lot of stuff has sold out on the sale inventory. The bullets are almost all in stock as I have been running them virtually nonstop for the last 2 months getting ready for the sale
    Nice i think those bullets are gonna be a huge hit. Im excited to test the target 25 120. And we picked up the 6.5 and 270 hunting bullets
     
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    CMP70306

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    What speeds were you ever able to achieve in the 6.5 PRC? I did a quick ladder a few months back with StaBall 6.5 and got up to 3320 fps but got sidetracked on a different project and haven’t made it back around to test more.
     

    ohiofarmer

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    What’s the explanation for the BC being revised down, a full .04, on the .224 Cayugas? It was listed at .520 when I purchased 250 of them on 12/1. Still waiting on USPS to deliver them one state away... but that’s a significant BC change for folks who ordered when it was listed significantly higher.
     
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    bohem

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    What’s the explanation for the BC being revised down, a full .04, on the .224 Cayugas? It was listed at .520 when I purchased 250 of them on 12/1. Still waiting on USPS to deliver them one state away... but that’s a significant BC change for folks who ordered when it was listed significantly higher.
    Revised test data in ultra-cold weather. I publish the worst case BC. I suspect that the super cold conditions contributed to marginal stability which drove down the BC. If you're not shooting them in sub 10F temps near sea level you'll likely see the higher value originally published.

    BTW, 0.04 is 7.6% and most bullet manufacturers trend towards 6% high across the board and won't revise the advertised values no matter what you tell them. I'm trying to put out the most up to date information I can. Under super cold temps a couple people have experienced a lower BC so I tested it more.

    Just like the 170gr 7mm test above where a user was finding a notably lower BC so I sent some bullets to a guy who could test them again and the test yielded results that perfectly aligned with mine and there was no need to change the BC as published on those.
     
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    Schw15

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    I haven't had the chance to make any in production. I've been so busy with things lately that I just haven't had the chance to get them into production and stack up some for the shelf.
    Have you done anything with 7mm saum and your 151? Powders best for that combo? Im pretty much stuck with imr 8133 and imr 7977 any info helps
     

    bohem

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    Have you done anything with 7mm saum and your 151? Powders best for that combo? Im pretty much stuck with imr 8133 and imr 7977 any info helps
    Not with those powders. H4350 and RL26, the 26 was too slow to get the speed I wanted.

    4350 was able to run a 151 over 3150 and that accomplished what I wanted. The rifle was a LA though.
     

    Schw15

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    Not with those powders. H4350 and RL26, the 26 was too slow to get the speed I wanted.

    4350 was able to run a 151 over 3150 and that accomplished what I wanted. The rifle was a LA though.
    This is a long action also and barrel is throated long. Suggestions on start load with h4350 i think i might have 1 pound or half pound
     

    GMZ

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    Hell yea was just going to ask this I’m making a 7 SAUM on a M70 I can load to 3.050 what was the coal?