Gunsmithing New Lathe

x ring accuracy

Gunny Sergeant
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As you all know, Papagrizzly, aka the owner of Grizzly here on the hide, he did right by me. For more years than I can count, I have been making firearms. Been through the American / Taiwan lathe BS for longer than I can remember. Used most of them if not all. I needed a 2nd lathe for my shop, to keep 2 spindles running. Mr. Balolia was generous to offer me a very lucrative deal on a G0509G 3 phase lathe. Now that it is set up and running, I am glad I chose this machine versus the 100 others I looked at. Tolerances are spot on, cut a bar today that read a difference of, er, well, nothing, on a 12" piece. Made me happy. Ergonomics...I need some time to adjust :), it is damn near 12" taller than my present lathe. Not starting a lathe war, just stating that Grizzly had a great product at a reasonable price and held zero perfect. Now time to start making tooling, god help me, :)
 

selfbowhunter

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how did he make you a "lucrative" deal on the lathe. I have been looking at this machine. what exactly does it take to buy one?

chuck
 

bricktop

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Would like to know more about this as well. Looking around at lathes now, particularly the G0750G, some Precision Matthews models, and a few others.
 

MarinePMI

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    Seen him over on Practical Machinist's board as well. Seemed like a real class act and stand up guy there too...
     

    x ring accuracy

    Gunny Sergeant
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    Not bashing the PM. Now that the 0509 is here and running I am glad of the choice. It is BIG, I mean BIG. I am 6' tall and need to reach up for some things. That's the ergonomics I spoke of. The 2" bore is a BIG plus too. When it starts it sounds like an aircraft jet engine powering up for take off, lol. The biggest snag I have right now is this: the machine is soo tight, I am used to dropping in the half nut and it sticks, now, due to tight tolerances, I don't have the luxury of a bump on the handle and done. Makin' me work now :). Thanks for the kind words too Mike & Marine. Happy Shooting to all.
     
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    STR

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    We all know what they look like in the catalog, but it makes a much bigger impression when we see it set up in a shop. How about a few picks??
     

    x ring accuracy

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    Its heavy.....Used a telescoping forklift so it was a breeze.
    DSCF0845.jpg

    DSCF0846.jpg

    DSCF0847.jpg

    DSCF0850.jpg
     

    Jhnmdahl

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    Congrats on the purchase. It seems like everyone who's used one has nothing but good things to say about them - the only real "criticism" comes from people who are pre-biased and don't have first-hand knowledge.

    I'm a little jealous. Have fun with it!

    John
     

    x ring accuracy

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    Congrats on the purchase. It seems like everyone who's used one has nothing but good things to say about them - the only real "criticism" comes from people who are pre-biased and don't have first-hand knowledge.

    I'm a little jealous. Have fun with it!

    John
    Thanks.
    The biggest snag now is everyone got to see my shop in such a mess. I will catch hell for it, but hey, it's a working shop :) I am "exercising" the machine doing some break in and things are smooth. Like anything else brand new, gotta wear it in.
     

    Southbreeze

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    Other than chiming in on PapaGrizz, this has nothing to do with your post.

    Two days ago I bought a bucket full of 7mm bullets from him ('hide classifieds), Didn't know him from adam's housecat. He was cool as hell with me, answered a shit ton of questions I had....It wasn't until the very last question that he referred me to his site for an example. The light finally came on for me, but he's helluva nice guy.

    xring, looking like a mad scientist's lab in there! That's right working men got work to do, cleaning up for later! Looking good.

    Breeze
     

    skeetlee

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    one thing is for sure. Y ou dont see these machines for sale on the used market much. folks that own them seem to hang onto them. my day will come soon i hope. lee
     

    STR

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    Thanks for the pictures. I think it looks great in there. I'd be happy making chips, and smoking cigars in that shop. I think I'll hold out for Grizzly or someone else to copy the Heavy Ten. I know it's old fashioned with everything manually done, but hey, I'm in no big hurry.
     

    x ring accuracy

    Gunny Sergeant
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    Thanks for the pictures. I think it looks great in there. I'd be happy making chips, and smoking cigars in that shop. I think I'll hold out for Grizzly or someone else to copy the Heavy Ten. I know it's old fashioned with everything manually done, but hey, I'm in no big hurry.
    Well......c'mon. I look forward to having the Master visit me :)
     

    x ring accuracy

    Gunny Sergeant
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    If you want your own brand of lathe or rifle scope, just to to Asia and pick the parts out of the catalogue, tell them the name of your brand, pay the money, and they will paint them up for you.

    Grizzly and Precision Matthews are like a dozen other Asian lathe brands, built in the same factory with the same parts and then get a unique name before shipment.

    Bushnell and Simmons are like a dozen other Asian rifle scope brands, built in the same factory with the same parts and then get a unique name before shipment.

    Dealing with the Chinese is not like dealing with Americans. The cultural difference in biz deals over there is to try to get a "gotcha".
    Hey Clark,
    Input well taken. The damndest part I went through was finding an American made machine anymore. I looked old the old iron many times. It sucks the US is out of the industrial market and it is sad. Most people nowadays are stuck on facebook, their phones, celebrity gossip, and the rest of the bullshit. I picked the Grizzly for several reasons. Customer service is EXCELLENT. 2nd, the machine, once set up, is true. 3rd, I don't have the time or resources to rebuild a 50 year old machine. Good, bad, right, or wrong, America's industrial facet has fallen down and left us with little to pick from. I tried, as I said at the beginning to not start a pissin match over this. I am an old guy and I remember "made in america" meant something. Nowadays it's falling on deaf ears. Flame suit on
     

    finefire

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    Nor here. Went through the same study when I needed to replace a well worn SB heavy 10. After many drives to look at used American iron, I gave in to the call of Asia. I followed Mike Bryant's advice and bought a Taiwanese built Kent TRL-1340. The quality is excellent, the manual is not. But. Grizzly sells the exact lathe with a Southbend label attached and... an excellent manual. Perfect. SB1050 Heavy 13® 13" x 40" Gearhead Lathe. Good luck with your new machine.
     

    Clark

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    I am a fan of Mike Bryant's web site on how to chamber. That got me started 10 years ago.

    I am on my 4th Lathe, this time a Precision Matthews.
    I would sell my old 1963 Rockwell mill and get a new Chinese mill, if it broke bad. I have replaced the bearings. I am willing to do that.

    I am not willing to fabricate large parts of old American lathes that are worn out.
     

    DropZone

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    X Ring,

    I also own a G0509G and LOVE IT! It arrived here at my shop back in december and was a HUGE step up from the G0602 I was using before. Papagrizzly is a good friend and a great businessman to deal with.

    Like yourself and many others I looked at old American steel but had the same concerns and problems you mentioned above. I was stunned at the size and accuracy of the Grizz. Zero run out and very sturdy is what it delivers for me as well.

    Not only did I get the lathe but I got a 6 jaw Bison Set-Tru chuck and taper attachment with mine. Later I added a Hardinge 2J collet closer from a place called smalltools.com for a steal! With those accessories and a 2" bore there is really nothing I can't do now. Combined with my Webb Champ 3VH mill, my shop begs me to come work in it each day!

    So congrats on a great machine. I look forward to seeing what you make on it!

    Best,
    Joe Chambers
     

    MikeeBooshay

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    OK here's mine, not really clean or dirty,

    Grizzlylathe_zps73d9bd2b.jpg


    A couple items of advice on yours when you buy it:

    First, plan ahead with the freight, UPS ground absolutely boned me on shipping. Use a frieght carrier like Yellow or someone like that. Don't get liftgate service unless you need it, that is several hundred bucks. You can get it off the truck with a reasonable sized fork lift. Forklift makes spottin the machine up a breeze to, you can rent one for a couple hundred for the day, and they normally deliver it too. I have my own, if you watch craigslist, you can get on the cheap, well worth it, it opens up many choices for you once you have one.

    Second, get it with the DRO already installed. I bought the DRO after the fact, Shiraz made me another good deal on that too. The time it takes to get it installed has kept me from installing it, I'd rather be working on "productive" stuff, ie... what has caught my ADD addled mind at the time.

    Third, order accessories at the same time, althought the lathe comes with a lot of stuff, you are going to need tool holders, etc. Make a list and run thru your top half dozen jobs mentally, writing down all the tools you don't have. Trust me, it will save a lot down the road, when you are in the middle of a job, and don't have what you need, you'll run down to the local supply house and pay extra to have it now, plus the time needed to chase it down.
     

    STR

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    From another old guy, I agree. Our government for longer than we all realize, has been leaning on big business to bail them out of their miss management of our tax dollars. Results, we lose more of "made in America to China, Mexico, and others. You can't blame big business. I know for a fact that they would like to do their work here, but not when you're working to pay Uncle Sam half of your profit. I think you did the best thing you could have for your self considering your options. I would do the same. Visiting you is on my bucket list. Only I'm no master in anything, and expect to learn from you. BTW, I again heard good word about you at the range today. A guy who sent you a Savage for repair of his factory extractor. Again, congrats on a solid choice for a lathe.
     

    STR

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    Alright...I'll play with the pictures also. Here is mine after it was set up back in December:

    IMG_0144_zps3e8bfa4e.jpg


    IMG_0149_zps1b33e7bd.jpg

    That's a real nice, clean boutique type set up you have there. That's what I'll be going for in the coming year with the new house. Congrats.
     

    jonaddis84

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    What size doorway would you need to fit it through? I've been wanting to install a double door but haven't gotten around to it yet.

    Nice looking shop there, wish I could keep mine that clean!

    Galaxy S3 on tapatalk
     

    DropZone

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    What size doorway would you need to fit it through? I've been wanting to install a double door but haven't gotten around to it yet.

    Nice looking shop there, wish I could keep mine that clean!

    Galaxy S3 on tapatalk

    Jon,

    You see that door in the background of the pics? It is a 28" door. When I took the frame out the lathe rolled in (we used two big flat moving carts) with about 1/2" to spare on each side...after I took a few knobs off. I would recommend saving yourself the stress and putting in a 3'0" door. ;-)

    Here are a few pics of some friends of mine and me pushing it through the door the day before it snowed about 12" here. I was really nervous about it sitting out in the weather but good friends always seem to come through.

    IMG_0129_zpsf53f6493.jpg


    IMG_0130_zps04b8ecc5.jpg


    IMG_0131_zpsc25b968e.jpg


    As far as the cleanliness of the shop, thank you, I try to keep it nice and orderly.

    STR, it is "cozy" but it works nice for a one man shop like mine.

    Best,
    Joe Chambers
     

    Clark

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    DSCF0006paulnlathenmill.jpg

    My baby brother with rubber feet under his lathe

    Millandlatheonsteelwheelcasterswithlayersofscrapcarpet4-7-2013.jpg

    My lathes are on wheels, my mill is on wheels, my shaper on wheels, my lift bench on wheels, tables saw on wheels, jointer on wheels, band saw on wheels, etc.

    Lathes have small front to back foot prints and are top heavy.
    I have seen a number that have fallen over and broke off the handles.
    I like to make a wider base to offset the high center of gravity, and those feet are a great place to mount the wheels.
     

    Clark

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    I don't live there, but I repaired the fuel pump and water pump of the MG to sell it and get it out of there. The guy who bought it came with a car trailer. It did not matter if it ran.
    If I had it to do over, I would sent it to the wrecking yard, pull $2k out of MY pocket, and tell the relatives I sold it.
    I don't mind work, I just don't like to work on junk.
     

    jonaddis84

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    That jet looks familiar, that's the exact model I'm hoping to replace. Does the trick just fine, but so light and flimsy.

    Galaxy S3 on tapatalk
     

    mogas

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    hello! I am the newest member here and glad to find this site! I have been looking for some actual Gunsmiths with good equip to blue print actions and replace a barrel or two... been hugely dissappointed with nearly all I have ever ran into.... last two custom rifles were crap! both are out for work! Both built by supposely good gunsmiths..Even gunsmiths I have known for years should have retired years ago! their work has been sliding downward and they been surviving on past reputation.I started collecting mausers and 03 springfields before they became "collector" rifles.. First one I had as a kid was bought in a Hardware store by my dad who told me to go to the barrel and pick out a rifle that had lots of brown grease on it! All rifles were priced $9.99 Each.. The Brown Grease was cosmolene... Anyway, I have been selling many of these rifles we collected and had customized because they are agsain in need of more work.. new barrels for the Jap Arisaka 7.7 mm, or mauser action (1909) needs new barrel and truing up... etc. etc.. Seems every body just want to work on remingtons, or custom actions....the ones that say they can do the work have been disappointing! any suggestions
     

    x ring accuracy

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    You guys are killing me me with clean shops :) STR, thanks for the kind words from the "MASTER". Yep, thats you :) The Savage is done, will go out tomorrow. And bucket list?.?.?.?...you been on mine for too long. Time to see you asap!
     

    x ring accuracy

    Gunny Sergeant
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    Thanks to all for the kind words. The manual included is garbage for one reason.........It doesn't give capacities of oil or coolant, lol. The headstock took 2.5 gallons of oil. I had 4 on hand thank god. The change gears, no idea but I will have 2 gallons on hand minimum for that. Apron, hell it can't take more than a gallon....right?! Coolant resovoir has 4 gallons and barely can make pick up. Wish I knew the capacities but all is good, just venting cuz I can :)
     

    Clark

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    After 100 hours you are supposed to change the light machine oil in the gear head.

    The drain oil is a couple gallons of nearly good expensive machine oil. What are you going to do with it? Mine is still a solution groping for a problem.
     

    MarinePMI

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    After 100 hours you are supposed to change the light machine oil in the gear head.

    The drain oil is a couple gallons of nearly good expensive machine oil. What are you going to do with it? Mine is still a solution groping for a problem.

    Couldn't you just run the break in oil through a paper coffee filter and call it good?
     

    CS223

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    If you want your own brand of lathe or rifle scope, just to to Asia and pick the parts out of the catalogue, tell them the name of your brand, pay the money, and they will paint them up for you.

    Grizzly and Precision Matthews are like a dozen other Asian lathe brands, built in the same factory with the same parts and then get a unique name before shipment.

    Not quite. This is who builds the G0709 lathe for Grizzly http://ww.newdragonmachine.cn:88// It's the C0636BX1000 on the page.
    Grizzly has a different spindle installed with the D1-5 camlock, P6 & P5 bearings on the spindle, MT3 instead of MT4 on the tailstock and the vee way on the tailstock, US Made Gates Green Stripe belts. I've searched high & low and could not find another supplier of a lathe with the same features. So unlike PM, Enco, HF, Grizzly isn't, in this case, simply rebadging & reselling an off the shelf product. Not trying to start an argument, just pointing out an observation.
     

    Clark

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    quote_icon.png
    Originally Posted by Clark
    If you want your own brand of lathe or rifle scope, just to to Asia and pick the parts out of the catalogue, tell them the name of your brand, pay the money, and they will paint them up for you.

    Grizzly and Precision Matthews are like a dozen other Asian lathe brands, built in the same factory with the same parts and then get a unique name before shipment.



    Not quite. This is who builds the G0709 lathe for Grizzly http://ww.newdragonmachine.cn:88// It's the C0636BX1000 on the page.
    Grizzly has a different spindle installed with the D1-5 camlock, P6 & P5 bearings on the spindle, MT3 instead of MT4 on the tailstock and the vee way on the tailstock, US Made Gates Green Stripe belts. I've searched high & low and could not find another supplier of a lathe with the same features. So unlike PM, Enco, HF, Grizzly isn't, in this case, simply rebadging & reselling an off the shelf product. Not trying to start an argument, just pointing out an observation.​




    All I know is what Matt that owns Precision Matthews told me 3 years ago.
    He said that there are the standard parts and there are upgrade parts.
    He says that my lathe, a PM1236, he says has the parts picked out of a catalogue you would expect; foot brake, same 3 Jaw and same 4 Jaw chucks etc The only thing that was a real upgrade for that class was the relays, because he had more warranty work on the relays that anything else.
    He says some brands that cost twice as much [Clausing now made in China], but are the same as another Chinese lathe, come in with the wrong manual, because they get the different paint job, but the factory accidently puts the wrong manual in that box.
    The Grizzly lathe I own has nothing unique about it, not even a unique choice of parts from a catalogue.

    All know about scopes is what Gale McMillan posted or emailed me 10 years ago. He went to Asia, picked scope parts from a catalog, and got a contract with the US Marines.
    The turrets on my SWFA Super Sniper are the same as on my Tasco scope.
     
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    Papagrizzly

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    All I know is what Matt that owns Precision Matthews told me 3 years ago.
    He said that there are the standard parts and there are upgrade parts.
    He says that my lathe, a PM1236, he says has the parts picked out of a catalogue you would expect; foot brake, same 3 Jaw and same 4 Jaw chucks etc The only thing that was a real upgrade for that class was the relays, because he had more warranty work on the relays that anything else.
    He says some brands that cost twice as much [Clausing now made in China], but are the same as another Chinese lathe, come in with the wrong manual, because they get the different paint job, but the factory accidently puts the wrong manual in that box.
    The Grizzly lathe I own has nothing unique about it, not even a unique choice of parts from a catalogue.

    All know about scopes is what Gale McMillan posted or emailed me 10 years ago. He went to Asia, picked scope parts from a catalog, and got a contract with the US Marines.
    The turrets on my SWFA Super Sniper are the same as on my Tasco scope.

    That's what's dangerous about passing on information you heard from other people. It is easy to say "so and so said this" and repeat it on the internet as the "truth" without any personal knowledge about what goes on in the industry.

    You are actually wrong on almost all counts of what your original post is about.

    1) While the machines may look alike, and some may even come from the same manufacturer, the insides are quite often different. I don't know which Grizzly machine you own, but I can tell you that there isn't a single G0509G lathe rebadged under a different name in terms of internal parts that we specify. Further, we have our own engineers, on our payroll, working at the factory to make sure a lot of the components are worthy of our lathes. In fact, we have a German engineer friend of mine, who worked as a QC person at Mercedes in Germany in his younger days, and is a master machinist, working full time at the factory making sure everything is done to our standards. It is not just another "rebadged" product.

    2) We sell more lathes than any other company in the USA, or for that matter, in the World. You say there is nothing special about the Grizzly lathe you own - we have a huge selection of lathes, from a few hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, there are hobby type lathes that we sell and, frankly, there isn't really anything special about some of them except for the quality control, but this thread is about Gunsmithing lathes and they are different - a lot different! Perhaps if you can tell us your full name, city where you live and the Grizzly lathe you own, I can verify that you did indeed buy a lathe from us and what is different about it, if anything. You can PM me that information.

    Another thing, and this is for all other readers of this thread:

    1) Please do not put your lathe on permanent casters to move it around. Over time, the bed will get a slight twist in it and will affect accuracy. This is regardless of which country the lathe is made in. Metal working lathes need to sit on a concrete floor and be properly levelled.
    2) Please do not re-use headstock oil because "metal sinks in oil". This is not good for your machine. For Grizzly lathe owners, our instruction manuals have very good information about lathe lubrication.

    Finally, for the guys that had kind words for me on this thread - thanks!
     
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    Clark

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    I guess you have superior knowledge of my business and the machine tool industry because you have 100,000 posts on some rec. gun forum. Considering that I only have about 40 years in this industry, what the hell do I know!

    You don't know how to schmooze.
    Your time it too valuable to waste flaming with someone with nothing better to do than make 100,000 posts.
     

    MarinePMI

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    2) Please do not re-use headstock oil because "metal sinks in oil". This is not good for your machine. For Grizzly lathe owners, our instruction manuals have very good information about lathe lubrication.

    Thank you sir, I appreciate the input/explanation. Happy owner of the smaller G4003G lathe here. Was damaged in shipping and I couldn't see it until unpacking (after the driver left). I had noted damage to the shipping crate (somebody dropped it), and when I called Grizzly, I had a FedEX frieght guy calling me within the hour. 10 Minutes after the delivery guy reclaimed the broken lathe and call was made to Grizzly, another lathe was shipped to replace it.

    People can say what they want, when stuff happens and things go pear shaped, Grizzly has stood by and honored their warranty without question or argument. (I had some tooling broken in shipment on two other occasions, but reference the lathe as it was the highest dollar item I purchased through them).

    Personally, I don't care if it was made by a half blind chinaman with a cold chisel in a basement. If the machine runs true, the company backs the warranty and I get a good value for the dollar; what's there to complain about to the vendor? Everything else is politics.

    JMTCW...
     

    x ring accuracy

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 28, 2008
    1,144
    3
    58
    Parrish, Fl.
    www.xringaccuracy.com
    DAYUM,
    Like I said, didn't mean to start a war. The G0509G runs great. Wish the manual had the capacities. Papagrizzly was kind to me, end of discussion. Any internet commandos need to move on to the next thread. Simple. I am happy, got a great deal on a machine. Too much drama. Sorry Mr Balolia for starting this thread. Thanks again and happy chip making.
     
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    tikka300

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Dec 14, 2003
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    0
    58
    Canada
    Lots of good information by guys actually using these in gunsmith applications. Sure helps guys who are considering Grizzly lathes but are unable to see these lathes first hand before buying - not a lot of the Grizzly's up here in Canada. Too bad the haters also have to pollute good threads with useless noise.
     

    Papagrizzly

    USA F-Open Rifle Team
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    For those that want one of these G0509Gs and cannot afford the full price, I will have one coming up soon that was returned by a customer with very little use.

    A shear pin was sheared off and he returned it saying it does not work. We sent him another one. However, it got a little scratched & dinged on its way back to us and I will have an attractive price on it for someone that wants a nice G0509G, and can live with the cosmetic issues. This is at our PA facility and has been gone over by our guys, fixed and tested. It was returned within days so very little use.

    Sorry - this one's now no longer available, but will work on getting alternatives offered. Thanks.
     
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    x ring accuracy

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 28, 2008
    1,144
    3
    58
    Parrish, Fl.
    www.xringaccuracy.com
    For those that want one of these G0509Gs and cannot afford the full price, I will have one coming up soon that was returned by a customer with very little use.

    A shear pin was sheared off and he returned it saying it does not work. We sent him another one. However, it got a little scratched & dinged on its way back to us and I will have an attractive price on it for someone that wants a nice G0509G, and can live with the cosmetic issues. This is at our PA facility and has been gone over by our guys, fixed and tested. It was returned within days so very little use.
    Oh NOW you tell me of this smokin deal :) Good fun!
     

    Gr8fullAmerican

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 13, 2013
    5
    0
    Lemoore, CA
    Thanks, you ended days of frustrating decision making

    I have been searching Craigslist for weeks and keep going back to your product. I lived in Bellingham for over 20 years and got spoiled being able to run down to your showroom and get what I needed. Unfortunately I had to leave B'ham for California. Your reputation as a stand up business man always striving to be the best is well known. Your explanation has answered questions I was debating. As a former bham business owner I can relate to, and respect, you standing up for your products. I will be placing my order for the G0750G this week. I only wish I could be there for the upcoming tent sale! Thanks!
    That's what's dangerous about passing on information you heard from other people. It is easy to say "so and so said this" and repeat it on the internet as the "truth" without any personal knowledge about what goes on in the industry.

    You are actually wrong on almost all counts of what your original post is about.

    1) While the machines may look alike, and some may even come from the same manufacturer, the insides are quite often different. I don't know which Grizzly machine you own, but I can tell you that there isn't a single G0509G lathe rebadged under a different name in terms of internal parts that we specify. Further, we have our own engineers, on our payroll, working at the factory to make sure a lot of the components are worthy of our lathes. In fact, we have a German engineer friend of mine, who worked as a QC person at Mercedes in Germany in his younger days, and is a master machinist, working full time at the factory making sure everything is done to our standards. It is not just another "rebadged" product.

    2) We sell more lathes than any other company in the USA, or for that matter, in the World. You say there is nothing special about the Grizzly lathe you own - we have a huge selection of lathes, from a few hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, there are hobby type lathes that we sell and, frankly, there isn't really anything special about some of them except for the quality control, but this thread is about Gunsmithing lathes and they are different - a lot different! Perhaps if you can tell us your full name, city where you live and the Grizzly lathe you own, I can verify that you did indeed buy a lathe from us and what is different about it, if anything. You can PM me that information.

    Another thing, and this is for all other readers of this thread:

    1) Please do not put your lathe on permanent casters to move it around. Over time, the bed will get a slight twist in it and will affect accuracy. This is regardless of which country the lathe is made in. Metal working lathes need to sit on a concrete floor and be properly levelled.
    2) Please do not re-use headstock oil because "metal sinks in oil". This is not good for your machine. For Grizzly lathe owners, our instruction manuals have very good information about lathe lubrication.

    Finally, for the guys that had kind words for me on this thread - thanks!