I don't personally have IP but the company I work for does and it has enforced it against Chinese as well as US companies. Clearly Leofoto is aware of RRS's IP since they deleted the lever lock from their Anvil 30 clone.
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I don't personally have IP but the company I work for does and it has enforced it against Chinese as well as US companies. Clearly Leofoto is aware of RRS's IP since they deleted the lever lock from their Anvil 30 clone.
Some of the richest people I have ever known are cheap .... that's why they are rich
Kinda rambled on. Imo, basic designs are usually modified copies of copies and simple ideas didnt take a team or engineers and rocket scientiest to come up with are basically like open source for people to build on and improve. investment mostly comes in bringing it to market. Trademark, copyright, patent is more about protecting their monetization of it. The only real protection is making something people cant easily copy like a Rolex. Lots of people have good ideas. I used to shoot flys with salt out of a BB gun as a kid. Bug assault isnt a novel idea. Their just the first to monetize it.
Its awesome RRS is %100 made in USA, I applaude them for it. Its Gucci gear. majority of people dont do Gucci gear. Just need gear.
RRS stuff is almost always on backorder. However, their backorder times are pretty short most of the time. I think I waited 3 weeks for my tripod/anvil combo.
As to your second paragraph of rants...it's pretty clear you have no idea how RRS operates internally, nor do most of us. As such (your lack of knowledge of RRS inner workings) your post comes off as a "I want it now" whiny millennial attitude, that's used to justify whatever action they want to take. Whether that's just to whine, complain, or tell someone to fuck off.
Haters gonna hate, taters gonna potate...
How do you know that all that nice shit they have isn't bought on debt and they're one paycheck/late account receivable away from being broke?
"iF rRs cAreD tHeY'D mAke mOrE"
Like they're just taking afternoons off and shredding POs coming in...
Some stuff just can't be made fast enough and scaling is difficult and expensive. Lots of parts, not a lot of machines to make them, raw materials shortages, QC fallout, if it costs $10M in capital equipment to make $2M worth of tripods annually what does that do to the value of a business, what happens when you scale up and demand drops, do you even have room for all that new shit?
Don't we all wish "just make more" was a real thing? Someone tell AI that shit too, if they cared they could just make more. Ford too, if they just cared they could deliver bespoke Broncos with a 24-hour turnaround like Amazon. Shame they don't care enough.
Like they're just taking afternoons off and shredding POs coming in...
Some stuff just can't be made fast enough and scaling is difficult and expensive. Lots of parts, not a lot of machines to make them, raw materials shortages, QC fallout, if it costs $10M in capital equipment to make $2M worth of tripods annually what does that do to the value of a business, what happens when you scale up and demand drops, do you even have room for all that new shit?
Don't we all wish "just make more" was a real thing? Someone tell AI that shit too, if they cared they could just make more. Ford too, if they just cared they could deliver bespoke Broncos with a 24-hour turnaround like Amazon. Shame they don't care enough.
I agree. I know these people. They could buy an entire shoe company but instead buy used shoes off of eBay that don’t fit. They get a hormonal kick off a deal, like a gambler.
But there is this concept; it’s called mental growth.
That cheap habit, born long ago in different (more appropriate) circumstances, turns out to be self-centered, self-defeating, and downright embarrassing once a person can actually afford something.
Metaphorically, it’s like an overweight man wearing a threadbare suit jacket three-sizes too small to his daughter’s wedding. Fat is bulging out, buttons are about to pop, his tie is 10 inches too short, but he thinks he looks great. He doesn’t care what his daughter thinks. He got it on sale, dagnabit!
Meanwhile his daughter is crying in the corner and people are wondering just who is this classless moron?
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I am inimately familiar with their finances.
And what about those that just took an existing product, modified It and gave it a catchy name? Donthey deserve all the protections of the system Because they paid the system for the stamp of approval?
I have been trying to buy a 22I for the last 6-8 months. Its been sold out at RRS and every vendor I do business with in that time. I have matches to shoot (30-40 this year just through October), don't have time to wait around for RRS to make their 5 tripods a month or whatever the hell it is.RRS stuff is almost always on backorder. However, their backorder times are pretty short most of the time. I think I waited 3 weeks for my tripod/anvil combo.
As to your second paragraph of rants...it's pretty clear you have no idea how RRS operates internally, nor do most of us. As such (your lack of knowledge of RRS inner workings) your post comes off as a "I want it now" whiny millennial attitude, that's used to justify whatever action they want to take. Whether that's just to whine, complain, or tell someone to fuck off.
Haters gonna hate, taters gonna potate...
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Like I said I already shoot from RRS anvil 30, but the gamer in me wants an inverted tripod.
Maybe others like wasting their limited time on this earth waiting for the privilege to buy a product, maybe their lives aren't worth much.
So yes, service the market or I will buy from someone who is. I don't care how great your product is or how innovative, if I can't buy it then it might as well be pixie dust.
I do not give a fuck what the excuse is or why I can't buy one now. The fact that I can't is all that drives my decisions.
And no shit I don't know how RRS operates internally, Maybe when I said " Who fucking knows but It doesn't matter.", that would be what we call a hint.
well, i didn't get any covid checks, but i still consider myself comparatively poor.
it is about discretionary income, and how we decide how much of our check or bank account can be spent on whatever we want.
It's all relative to disposable income. Average income in the US is 30,000. A RRS setup will cost you 2-3 weeks wages. China setup 2-3 days. Go figure.
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Don’t worry,
With the supply shocks (covid still and world wide logistic issues), excessive inflation (every nation), and now a possibility of war with Russia (if the media isn’t hyping it up but it seems imminent) we will see a lot of things getting cheaper and a lot of wages slashed or lay offs also.
Relative is going to be a new perspective soon.
Personal debt is very high as well so don’t forget that. Very few people have the ability to blow money as this thread pretends. There’s a virus in the shooting community that tricks people to thinking that if they buy the most expensive products that it’ll move them up the leaderboard. It’s a sad thing to witness.
I'm not your patent attorney
full disclosure, since somebody mentioned supply...
when i finally decided that my wife was sick of me talking about which tripod to get...
the tftc-anvil combo was backordered.
undeterred, i quickly decided that should i be lost while killing zombies, my family might want to use the tripod for photography.
having the versa tripod made it much more flexible for whoever gets it when i am gone or pooping my diapers like the president.
it was in stock, as was the anvil and adapter plate, so no wait needed, lol.
when i finally decided that my wife was sick of me talking about which tripod to get...
the tftc-anvil combo was backordered.
undeterred, i quickly decided that should i be lost while killing zombies, my family might want to use the tripod for photography.
having the versa tripod made it much more flexible for whoever gets it when i am gone or pooping my diapers like the president.
it was in stock, as was the anvil and adapter plate, so no wait needed, lol.
You changed my mind. I’m clapping for you know for not wanting Gucci gear. Fudge that shit.
I know this guy, here-he reminds me of you man. because cheep china concrete imports, he got laid of f his concrete job. So he went in for a diff trade, good old american steal bending HVAC. To ward off the virus, he go t into benching with this son instead. Since he likes bow hunting, his strength training helped his bowkills count!. Relaxing. Fucking aye! Wasting my money on this gucci shite. You like bowhunting budd?ly I bet u do.
Some people say stuff like Only rich men can afford to buy cheap stuff or somesuch. Ha! dumpshits!
And im not going to use a fancy bow neither. If RRS made bows, what would I eat? Dirt?
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Well if you admit you don't fucking know, then why the fuck are you making statements like "Are people supposed to waste their life away waiting for a company to get off their fucking ass and make products."?
And since you don't know (and now admit it), then just go buy a fucking leofoto and quit your fucking bitching. Why are you even in this thread? Just to hear yourself bitch and vent?
Again, we have vendors that come in here to answer questions and provide community support, and some douche nozzle like you, with sand in their vagina, uses that as an excuse to have a fucking bitch session, because they feel they should be entitled to something that's in high demand. Guess what? You're not.
Pay your money, stand in line (like everyone else), or take your (un)happy ass on down the road. Drive on brother! No one is going to miss your fucking bitching. Especially at a vendor that has worked with this community to create equipment that has advanced the tradecraft.
So. Just. Stop. Now.
Pssssssssssshhhhh! Tears in the rain and shit!! You sound tilted about something.
I probably have spent more money with RRS than 99% of this site. You seem to think we like we owe RRS something.
They didn't invent the tripod, I am pretty sure some caveman about 500,000 years ago can get the credit for that one. They didn't invent the ballhead, They didn't invent Arca-Swiss. They just happen to make a high quality product with a high price that is hardly ever available. They didn't invent the shooting saddle. RRS gets the benefit of taking other peoples ideas and designs and no one says shit. Someone takes their ideas and we got white knights like you coming out to Mlady them.
Basic commerce 101... Someone supplies and someone buys. If someone cannot supply then fuck them, they fail at commerce and others will move in to fill the void. I don't give a shit what their strategic plan is or how they want to run a business.
I never said I was entitled to something in high demand, the same as they aren't entitled to corner a market they are FAILING to service.
You are in a thread about the Leofoto Anvil copy. God forbid people express reasons why they may want to buy one.
Yea great idea, let me give them free no interest loans for who the fuck knows how long be it 6 or 12+ months. That doesn't help me this match season.
Its not like any of us have been fucked by backorders from those exact vendors. I am still waiting for shit I ordered in 2018 from Midway to ship. I just had an ammo backorder from 2years ago cannceled yesterday, and who knows when they will refund me.
Like I said I have been trying to get one for a LONG time, and they are still unobtanium.
So before you start preaching to people about shit, maybe you should come correct.
For the record, I’m against American companies blatantly ripping off other company’s products as well, like scope caps…
FUCK. You got me man. You win. I come correct.
Well if they are vendor then its ok. As long as the spice flows.
Perhaps you need to re-read your statements (I've highlighted them in red for you). You aren't expressing a reason for buying a leofoto, you're bitching about RRS. If you can't see how fucked up your behavior is, I don't know what to tell you.
While you're at it, ponder the statement "Just. Stop. Now."
Totally get it. Some people don’t have much liquid cash. Maybe they own 10,000 acres of ranch land, but the CC company won’t take buffalo chips for payment. Etc.well, i didn't get any covid checks, but i still consider myself comparatively poor.
it is about discretionary income, and how we decide how much of our check or bank account can be spent on whatever we want.
Just so they don’t fool themselves with the false economy of buying cheap stuff or pretend their actions, like buying Chinese knockoffs, don’t eventually affect their own life. Or their grandchildren’s.
Sometimes one must just make do with what one has at hand.
I’m the last person to look down upon someone like that.
It’s the rich bullshitters that are so cheap…cheap for cheap’s sake…those losers chap my hide.
Looks like they changed the mechanism before going to market.
SA-364CL+MA-30 - Leofoto
Leofoto was founded at the beginning of 2014. It is located in Zhongshan, beautiful Pearl River Delta area in China. Leofoto team has been designing and manufacturing series of camera support systems by comparing and studying the high-end photographic accessories made in China and abroad and...
leofoto.com
Hahaha! Sometimes it’s just fun to read threads that have run their course. Good times!
I just want to say for the record that my post above was high satire (c’mon…Buddly reference? Spelling mistakes galore? Bow kills? Bench pressing? Concrete? Imported Chinese concrete? [wtf jesus]).
Plus…
Eating g-damn dirt??? Because not buying a USA-made bow???
To top it off, no laffs except the one dude I was making light of.
What does it even mean anymore?
I’m not mad, son. Just…sigh……disappointed.
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Hahaha! Sometimes it’s just fun to read threads that have run their course. Good times!
TL-DR;
1. Fuck Leofoto, stealing is wrong, don't support them or China
2. Fuck RRS, why should I pay 3x as much for something I cannot even get?
Diametrically opposed and both right in a way.
They have both. The knob and the lever.
Leofoto copy is $269, RRS Anvil-30 is $395. RRS also doesnt charge for backorders until they ship. I understand they just changed their policy, but I bet vendors like Mile High will carry them. I backordered at the end of December and get a new Anvil 30 delivered tomorrow.
There are some seriously cheap bastards out there. All this whining over $130 to buy the real deal.
There are some seriously cheap bastards out there. All this whining over $130 to buy the real deal.
I just want to say for the record that my post above was high satire (c’mon…Buddly reference? Spelling mistakes galore? Bow kills? Bench pressing? Concrete? Imported Chinese concrete? [wtf jesus]).
Plus…
Eating g-damn dirt??? Because not buying a USA-made bow???
To top it off, no laffs except the one dude I was making light of.
What does it even mean anymore?
View attachment 7806024
I’m not mad, son. Just…sigh……disappointed.
View attachment 7806011
I just want to say for the record that my post above was high satire (c’mon…Buddly reference? Spelling mistakes galore? Bow kills? Bench pressing? Concrete? Imported Chinese concrete? [wtf jesus]).
Plus…
Eating g-damn dirt??? Because not buying a USA-made bow???
To top it off, no laffs except the one dude I was making light of.
What does it even mean anymore?
View attachment 7806024
I’m not mad, son. Just…sigh……disappointed.
View attachment 7806011
Sorry, missed your question. I’m referring to close relatives, good friends that have well-paying jobs (and their brothers), friends that have inherited multi-generational businesses, plus other friends & relatives that married into new and old money.Who are you talking about specifically?
I’m not referring to anyone on this forum.
Sometimes the people that inherited or married into old money go quite out of their way to look average. Here are some ways to spot them.
They might drive simple vehicles, not flashy. Like Dodge minivans, not the new ones either. But their cars are clean and without dents or rust (Unless they’re filthy rich. Then their cars, like their personal appearance, might approach the “bum” end of the spectrum…completing the circle and all that).
If you don’t know what do look for, their clothes look casual and inexpensive but those clothes somehow just fit better than yours do. Doesn’t hurt that they tend not to smoke or be overweight.
They also seem to have an inordinate amount of free time available to work out or for sport.
They tend not to discuss money or make money jokes. They might get quite uncomfortable if the subject comes up and will wish to quickly change it.
If the house they live in doesn’t really match up with their job, if they often go on suspiciously long vacations, and if they seem oddly unstressed by cash issues and especially if the women are unbothered with cleaning the house and taking care of the kids (but the kids are well-cared for and the house is clean)…well, you just might know a millionaire (or far wealthier) hiding right there, basking out in the open, rubbing shoulders with you and all the other (comparative) poors.
BONUS POINTS
Do they have a passion for sailing, something involving water? What about horses? Odd or special breeds of dogs?
What about lots of volunteer work? Unpaid, naturally.
Finally, do they have separate (from you & yours) sets of fascinating friends/relatives? People that you hear a lot about but you never quite get to meet (much less barely catch their last names)? And do these friends/relatives often accompany your friend on sort-of-unspecific, open-ended, unusual, high-altitude, or vaguely exotic vacations (but the after-action report [esp. about cost] is gauzy, hazy, detail-less)?
In short, these people may, on a very superficial level, appear to dimly resemble you. But they don’t seem to have your problems.
————
I do ok for myself, but christ there is a lot of hidden money swimming around the closer you get to the top. And the better paying the profession the less work one tends to do (there are exceptions).
So when I hear certain people I know real well (and who I do care for) talk about how they just can’t afford xyz when I damn well know “afford” has nothing to do with it, I usually just clench my jaw a little and roll my internal eyeballs up to the ceiling.
All this while I glance away and become suddenly very interested with something off in the middle distance.
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Relatively speaking someone who makes $50k is paying 5 times more for a product than someone that makes $250k. To put that into perspective a $4k ZCO for the poor would be equivalent to $20k for the not. That $2k tripod is like $10k, $700 bipod is $3k and so on. Its all relative. If you make a Mil that $4K ZCO is $80K. People buy the cheap stuff because it's that or nothing. Not because they wouldn't like best gucci gear available or dont appreciate the quality.
Pfff. I bought the $160 ripoff to the ripoff.
I don't see it on their site but I'll take your word for it. RRS should do something about it.
I wouldn't try to save $100 buying a Chinese copy of an Anvil 30. I would try to save $1000 buying a Chinese copy of the tripod and Anvil 30. RRS is responsible for enforcing their own IP. They don't seem to think they owe me anything as one of their customers and I sure don't feel like I owe them anything. My last order from RRS was a month ago; I'll buy from them again if they have a product I want or need that presents value. I have a few Leofoto products too and the same goes for them. No amount of whining and crying will change my mind.
Either do something about the copies or shut up. I'm old enough to know American businesses will screw me over just as fast as the Chinese.
It’s too early to fact check your math so I’ll believe the point your trying to make rather than pick it apart with nuance. The concept you’re discussing is something few understand even though it’s obvious.
In the course of about 11 years I went from making around 16k per year to around 225k per 8 months.
I went through a long period of deciding what is more important: potatoes, rent, or gas. Then within the last four years I went to buying whatever the hell I want without any regard. Then getting injured overseas which has impacted my ability to deploy to combat zones. Now my salary is around 60k a year.
The point, I have seen and lived through dramatic changes in life styles because of said wages. I have perspective. I’ve set myself up pretty well even with the loss of my higher salary but I acknowledge the difficulty some face. Could I give them advice to change their situation? Sure but that isn’t what this is about.
So if someone wants to buy a Chinese knock off then so be it. There are implications to that. But it is what it fking is. This forum is an eco chamber of people willing to drop more money (a few times over) than most have in their savings account; all so they can shoot a tiny dot. I don’t want to support Chinese manufacturing but I get it if someone else does.
I like to shit talk as much as the next guy but the psychological difficulty in trying to afford things that you can’t sucks pretty badly and I’m not going to make someone feel bad because they’re buying a knock off. I grew up on knock offs and got segregated and classed as a poor because of it. So use whatever the hell you want because that person judging you isn’t going to be there to buy your groceries when you need some.
The patent was the worst thing ever to happen to commerce. It set up a self-reinforcing system of anti-competitiveness which stifles both innovation and economic freedom. Unfortunately, almost as soon as the patent system was put in place the side effects created systems of power which mean that the patent system can never be removed despite the fact that it doesn't work as intended because a number of nation states give exactly zero shits about it meaning that the part of the world where it's enforced is simply stuck playing by a set of rules that doesn't apply to their opponents. Ayn Rand shakes her head at all of you.
bUt mUh pRiNcIpLeS. Yeah, whatever, Chad. Principles are merely an excuse for bad decisions which the unwise attribute their behavior to when they realize they're playing by a set of rules that they don't have to play by but they do it anyway because they're incapable of rationally reacting to the real situation the find themselves in.
Of course none of this has anything to do with patents or even any kind of intellectual property. It's about glorified fibreglass and who can make high quality tubes of it for the least.
Those of us that have ever held a patent know that a patent is only as strong as the holder's willingness and ability to enforce it.
bUt mUh pRiNcIpLeS. Yeah, whatever, Chad. Principles are merely an excuse for bad decisions which the unwise attribute their behavior to when they realize they're playing by a set of rules that they don't have to play by but they do it anyway because they're incapable of rationally reacting to the real situation the find themselves in.
Of course none of this has anything to do with patents or even any kind of intellectual property. It's about glorified fibreglass and who can make high quality tubes of it for the least.
Those of us that have ever held a patent know that a patent is only as strong as the holder's willingness and ability to enforce it.
The real problem is it shouldn’t be so burdensome to enforce it. A patent holder shouldn’t have to be out of pocket hundreds of thousands of dollars. The burden should be in the alleged violater to prove its not IP theft.
It's a thing we do called "innocent until proven guilty"
That’s criminal law. Does not apply in civil law.
Unfortunately
sometimes I always look back at OJ. How can you be criminally not guilty yet be found guilty of wrongful death in a civil case? That shit don’t make sense. What I do believe in is loser pays. If you sue and lose, you have to pay the other sides legal fees as well. No one should go bankrupt defending themselves against frivolous bullshit.
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