New press announcement from Area 419

hookedonbrass

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watching the live announcement now.

it does have some very impressive machining and bearings unlike anything on the market. i have no doubt it will be super slick and nice.
 

Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    It will not operate as a standard turret press though. Basically, just a head to keep 9 dies in. Won’t be a “quick” move turret.

    Definitely won’t be used as a progressive, even manually.
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Single stage press for 1200 bucks?

    Prazi press has been over $800. Haven’t found a person yet that regretted that purchase.

    This isn’t for everyone and will be something for someone looking to squeeze everything they can out if a press/tolerances.
     

    BoltActionBrotherhood

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    I figured they would have had a free floating shell holder. Surprised they are going away from this logic.

    BTW did anyone catch the coupons they mentioned they were having some sales
     
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    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    But allows for the case to self-center into the die. I thought it was proven to reduce runout. guess not.

    Reduces runout when you have tolerances that allow more runout.

    They are attempting to eliminate the tolerances the require floating parts.
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Here’s and example of when tolerances line up.

    But stuff like this ain’t cheap. Floating parts cut costs way down as tolerances can be less.

     

    BoltActionBrotherhood

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    It was more of an inquiry, not saying it's going to be a bad product or anything, obviously, its going to be great like all their products. I was more just curious on the logic, and excited to see the results once they start making their perfect fitting shell holders they discussed.
    So they companies that are running a free-floating shell holder essentially are making up for their press tolerances?
     

    Superjet

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    It’s cool to see a company develop something so focused on the product/performance without being constrained by cost. I’m anxious to see some reviews and loaded ammo measurements.
     
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    Dthomas3523

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    Care to explain that?

    It’s self explanatory. It moves. It’s exists because the parts are not machined to a tight enough tolerance to work without slop.

    It’s circa 1950 technology from a time when we didn’t have the ability to machine things to smaller tolerances.
     

    kindabitey

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    Don't think the aluminum will be an issue. I watched the video on their FB page. It's at least twice as thick as a T7. If it's made from any of the 7XXX alloys, it'll be more than enough.
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Don't think the aluminum will be an issue. I watched the video on their FB page. It's at least twice as thick as a T7. If it's made from any of the 7XXX alloys, it'll be more than enough.

    People tend to forget or not know there what can be done with aluminum:

     

    TripleBull

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    People tend to forget or not know there what can be done with aluminum:


    For sure. Then they build it like this to boot:

    "Milled from all-American billet Aluminum, this press moves with the help of 16 bearings, including a self-lubricating linear sleeve bearing, guiding the precision-ground and nitrided 1.25″ ram with less than .0005″ of diametric tolerance. "

    Pricey, but so are many of my sub-hobbies, ammo, good liquor, stuff for the wife and kids...
     
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    kindabitey

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    Just looking at the 3d model on their website, there's an assload of machining in it. Granted, it's going to be done on a 5 or 6 axis machine, but they ain't cheap. And someone has spent a lot of time modeling and programming the finished product.
     
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    Petrov

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    It’s self explanatory. It moves. It’s exists because the parts are not machined to a tight enough tolerance to work without slop.

    It’s circa 1950 technology from a time when we didn’t have the ability to machine things to smaller tolerances.
    Thats not an explanation.
    What matters in the end is how the brass case is jammed inside the die.
     
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    JustSendit

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    That’s pretty slick, kind of want one even though my co-ax is awesome...
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    It is a piece of art for sure! Not shopping for another press... but that sure is a thing of beauty!

    BTW, don’t under-rate what you can do with ‘vintage’ presses, either. Machining new rams, pin honing old frames, bronze bushings. A day in the machine shop and a “loose” $35 EBay press from the ‘60s and you would be amazed at What you can make it in to!

    That said, the above press is a really amazing bit of engineering and the aluminum is impressive!

    Cheers, Sirhr

    PS... never even heard of the company until I saw a picture of that press in the Motivational picture thread and got sent here! I will be checking out their site!
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    This is how innovation begins. Same thing every time. Company puts time and money into trying something different and the naysayers come out the woodwork.

    Same shit when 6.5cm got popular, $200+ bipods, $1k+ tripods.

    Go find the original tangent theta thread and see how many were saying that was just overpriced junk.
     

    flyer1a

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    Strictly for Area 419 fanboys like most of their nonsense.

    They make some stuff worth the price, but most of their shit is for people who think more expensive means better.
    Hey man, interested in knowing which of our stuff falls into this category. We have some products that are more expensive, but those also bear some sort of increased quality or value.
     

    bmicek

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    I’ve never been shy to pay a premium price for reloading equipment, but $1200 seems steep. Don’t get me wrong, I know the machining is pricey especially since they’ve recently bought new equipment. The end goal is obviously to be as close to having zero tolerance loads as possible. This press is a step in the right direction to that. But then you almost need to upgrade the rest of your equipment otherwise the premium press’s tolerances won’t mean anything to the end product. Pretty soon a $1200 press means thousands of more dollars in upgrading other equipment IF a guy wants to do it right. Otherwise, something like a Co-Ax is very capable of single SD loads if the reloader is capable of it.

    Right or wrong, that’s my opinion on it. I know some will agree and some won’t but it’s an open forum and that’s my input.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    I’ve never been shy to pay a premium price for reloading equipment, but $1200 seems steep. Don’t get me wrong, I know the machining is pricey especially since they’ve recently bought new equipment. The end goal is obviously to be as close to having zero tolerance loads as possible. This press is a step in the right direction to that. But then you almost need to upgrade the rest of your equipment otherwise the premium press’s tolerances won’t mean anything to the end product. Pretty soon a $1200 press means thousands of more dollars in upgrading other equipment IF a guy wants to do it right. Otherwise, something like a Co-Ax is very capable of single SD loads if the reloader is capable of it.

    Right or wrong, that’s my opinion on it. I know some will agree and some won’t but it’s an open forum and that’s my input.

    Agreed with the needing to keep all equipment up to standard.

    I’d imagine though, the people buying this press already have things like AMP, Fx120 or Prometheus, hydro press, etc etc and their press is the only thing left to upgrade as there aren’t really any upgrades available.

    Personally, I was already looking at a Prazi Press as I’m in the above category. My press is the only thing left to upgrade and at the moment, the Prazi is the only other option.

    This brings another high end/low tolerance press to the fold. And it’s a US company. Which is always nice.
     

    MarinePMI

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    Seems like they do a lot of maching in this press, to only "Using factory shellholders there will be a small amount of float available to account for uncontrollable 3rd party tolerances." That just seems (to me anyways) counter intuitive. You machine to .0005" tolerance on the ram....and then allow "a small amount of float"?

    I mean, how much is "a small amount"?

    I like their products and all, but....??? It seems contradictory to me.
     

    Petrov

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    Hey man, interested in knowing which of our stuff falls into this category. We have some products that are more expensive, but those also bear some sort of increased quality or value.
    Oh cool we have area 419 here.
    Hey could you explain where the tolerances come into play ? From what I understand by the end of the day shell holder jams the brass in the die.
    Can you explain to me where the tolerances come into play? Not being facetious here, I am just curious.
     

    flyer1a

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    I’ve never been shy to pay a premium price for reloading equipment, but $1200 seems steep. Don’t get me wrong, I know the machining is pricey especially since they’ve recently bought new equipment. The end goal is obviously to be as close to having zero tolerance loads as possible. This press is a step in the right direction to that. But then you almost need to upgrade the rest of your equipment otherwise the premium press’s tolerances won’t mean anything to the end product. Pretty soon a $1200 press means thousands of more dollars in upgrading other equipment IF a guy wants to do it right. Otherwise, something like a Co-Ax is very capable of single SD loads if the reloader is capable of it.

    Right or wrong, that’s my opinion on it. I know some will agree and some won’t but it’s an open forum and that’s my input.

    I think this perspective is a very strong one. We are in a time with shooting and reloading where guys are pushing every possible button to eek out the last bit of advantage. Die-makers have been pushing on perfect-tolerance dies for years. Rifle builders indicate in chambers to near-zero axial runout. Then we head into the reloading room, grab our $1.25/piece brass, anneal it to the degree, trim it to the thousanth, seat primers to the thousanth, load with a charge that's measured to the kernel, and put it in a press that has 6-8 thousanths (at best) of play in the extended position of the ram, on those $400/set dies that we remove and re-install regularly, and hope it all lines up at that last moment.

    Can you make accurate ammo without it? Yeah, for sure. But are you leaving something on the table in the process? That's for you to wonder.
     

    flyer1a

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    Oh cool we have area 419 here.
    Hey could you explain where the tolerances come into play ? From what I understand by the end of the day shell holder jams the brass in the die.
    Can you explain to me where the tolerances come into play? Not being facetious here, I am just curious.

    We think the press system needs to do everything it can to eliminate tolerances, not just apply pressure hoping they all line up. This press will have much less variance in the extended position of the ram, and will ultimately be available with precision ground shellholders that are custom to the system, eliminating even more of that potential error.

    See what I just responded to @bmicek - it's not for everyone, but for some it will make all the sense in the world.
     
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    avastcosmicarena

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    This looks incredible. $1200 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Mark 7 progressive presses start around $3000.

    This will be an awesome companion to my Mark 7 Evo. :cool:
     
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    Dthomas3523

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    Seems like they do a lot of maching in this press, to only "Using factory shellholders there will be a small amount of float available to account for uncontrollable 3rd party tolerances." That just seems (to me anyways) counter intuitive. You machine to .0005" tolerance on the ram....and then allow "a small amount of float"?

    I mean, how much is "a small amount"?

    I like their products and all, but....??? It seems contradictory to me.

    Thats for people who insist on using someone else’s shell holders.

    They will be releasing their own that won’t have play.
     
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    Dthomas3523

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    No one thought a $600 primer seater would sell. The CPS is pretty popular. $600 primer seater doesn’t make a $1200 press seam crazy in relation.

    And before anyone chimes in, yes, you can see a difference on paper with varying amounts of seating pressure on primers.
     

    spife7980

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    Seems like they do a lot of maching in this press, to only "Using factory shellholders there will be a small amount of float available to account for uncontrollable 3rd party tolerances." That just seems (to me anyways) counter intuitive. You machine to .0005" tolerance on the ram....and then allow "a small amount of float"?

    I mean, how much is "a small amount"?

    I like their products and all, but....??? It seems contradictory to me.
    Dave addressed it already but in the release video they said they would have made their own that are completely captured by the time they get to shipping.
     

    47guy

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    i think reloading is the most over thought thing on the planet...if we put this much thought into the covid shit wed have a vaccine LOL!

    i was one of the guys for YEARS that owned EVERY accuracy gadget made...Concentricity gauges..bullet compairitors..meplat trimmers..pointing dies..hydro press..neck turning tools..weigh and sort everything and every other thing you can think of...NONE OF IT MADE ME A BETTER SHOOTER!!
    i chased my tail for years playing with all those gadgets thinking thats what i needed to shoot better when in fact it was just MORE TRIGGER time and focusing more on the stuff I was doing wrong and correcting it...the best thing i ever did was get rid of all the gadgets.

    now that said i love area 419 as well as all of the other manufactures that are putting out all of these cutting edge products and i believe that a small percentage of ppl/rifles can take advantage and benefit from these up graded products..but the thing is...is the person buying this stuff one of the ppl who is advanced enough to see the increase in accuracy? is his gun up to the task?

    personally i am not...i have brought myself up to about 85-90% consistent and i have 100% confidence my current rifle will shoot in the .2s all day but we go back to me being 85-90% so while i drool over THE LOOK(and that sexy German press)of this new press then look at the paper ive shot with loads from my sloppy coax...ill keep my coax....for now!!