Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
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The amount of people buying $4k optics like this = niche. No matter who makes it.
Non niche = the millions of optics not costing that and sold every day.
We are a very, very small market share of the industry.
Only ever one military contract away from the big bucks
Lefties rejoice. No more knuckle busters when using a 2 lug 90* LH bolt. I'm pegging it at $5200.
why not ? maybe it would be better 15 MIL per revolution, but even 14 it's OK.
but still no usable reticle for PRS/NRL...
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I’d rather it have 10. You rarely dial past that anyway. You would be able to read the turret better and the clicks would be more spaced apart so it would be easier to dial. Current Schmidt turrets the clicks are so fine it’s hard to dial .1. It always wants to jump .2 or .3 if that makes sense.
Ah. I posted in the other Schmidt thread. But the Rep from Schmidt I talked to said to figure a price in the 4500 range. Here is the 6-36 next to the old 5-25. 
There must br a big .mil contract that requires 35x, because
Theres been absolutely nobody ive heard asking for $4500 35x scopes ...
If this thing was $3500-3800 it would sell like hotcakes tho since its competitive with other higher end optics like zco 5-27 but has some nice differentiating features, like lower weight, lower parallax, some unique reticles, 35x mag....for those that care...P5 is a good clean setup, msr2 would be sweet, etc.
TT is already in that price bracket and consensus seems to be the glass is better than just about anything....but theres no real demand for 'incrementally' better at that pricepoint
So is there a .eu contract or something? Or is this just people trying to protect the pricing of old 5-25x class of scopes by making a higher pricing tier?
I guess theres always inflation to blame, tho...
Theres been absolutely nobody ive heard asking for $4500 35x scopes ...
If this thing was $3500-3800 it would sell like hotcakes tho since its competitive with other higher end optics like zco 5-27 but has some nice differentiating features, like lower weight, lower parallax, some unique reticles, 35x mag....for those that care...P5 is a good clean setup, msr2 would be sweet, etc.
TT is already in that price bracket and consensus seems to be the glass is better than just about anything....but theres no real demand for 'incrementally' better at that pricepoint
So is there a .eu contract or something? Or is this just people trying to protect the pricing of old 5-25x class of scopes by making a higher pricing tier?
I guess theres always inflation to blame, tho...
Design wise, i really like this s&b for .mil tactical class scope.
For everything else
Think ill take a zco 2.5-16x
(Please also lets get 10 mil/rev turret option.)
For everything else
Think ill take a zco 2.5-16x
(Please also lets get 10 mil/rev turret option.)
Yep, $4500USD is outrageous for something in a niche that’s filled. It’s starting to approach the SnB 5-45 - why bother with this??There must br a big .mil contract that requires 35x, because
Theres been absolutely nobody ive heard asking for $4500 35x scopes ...
If this thing was $3500-3800 it would sell like hotcakes tho since its competitive with other higher end optics like zco 5-27 but has some nice differentiating features, like lower weight, lower parallax, some unique reticles, 35x mag....for those that care...P5 is a good clean setup, msr2 would be sweet, etc.
TT is already in that price bracket and consensus seems to be the glass is better than just about anything....but theres no real demand for 'incrementally' better at that pricepoint
So is there a .eu contract or something? Or is this just people trying to protect the pricing of old 5-25x class of scopes by making a higher pricing tier?
I guess theres always inflation to blame, tho...
with modern bullets, it's like 15MIL optimum for transonic range, so I asume this is the limit of what you dont need to dial more than one revolution, and you wont get lost with multiple turns. yes, it is very small increment and it is a pain in the ass, but only this way you stay inside one revolution... imho
and for this reason, same 15 MIL reticle tree is required.
not prs but 'nrl', and not in america. but yes, very very good.
I think it may become obvious when we have them side-by-side.
I have a 5-45 but rarely go that far (or just for the fun of it), but the 6-36 will have some qualities like better eyebox etc.
I too am interested in a side-by-side. The 5-45 in the configuration I want is 5,600 MSRP. Way too much $$$ to get away from the TT525P sitting there now that has already been partially amortized. Plus only 29.5 mils in the configuration I want.
However, 1,100 cheaper MSRP vs 5-45 with 11x mag advantage over the TT, 11 more mils than TT, better eye box vs 5-45 and hopefully available with MSR2 - I’d consider that swap long and hard. Honestly, 6-36 with MSR2 and MT2 turrets sounds just about perfect for my AXMC.
Do you know if they jacked the price on the 5-25 because of the ocular?
I know the price you gave was for the 6-36, but I'm worried about the regular 5-25.
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$5600 is only about 10% more than Theta’s new retail.
Hopefully its more robust than the 5-25 PM2. Nice they got rid of the tumor which will make mounting flexibility much better.
I’m skeptical of this offering, only cause of more recent Schmidt bender offerings. Basically, they really need to ensure they got the optical qualities right at this price. I snagged a 3-27x56 recently, and was way disappointed with the glass quality and tight eye box. I was also disappointed in the exos 3-21 optically, rest of the scope kicked ass. The ol 5-25 still kicks ass, I think they need to revisit that formula while removing the tunneling, I’d also add day time illumination and call it a day.
More elevation and probably a more useable scope, reticle thickness being easier to balance, eye box and such.
6 vs 9 erector is a pretty big difference in optical design I believe.
Also never used a 5-45 but with a 56mm objective at 45 power the image is probably getting pretty dark. (I run a spotter 60 at 40 power mostly and that’s a 72mm lens.)
Price in Australia is probably an insane deal breaker but who knows.
If the sample at SHOT is indicative of the final product, the eye box is very nice. Easy to get behind even at 36x.
I looked at the new S&B 6-36x56, saw it yesterday at shot. It was cool to see the illumination moved to the same turret as parallax. What I HATED was the crappy little turret for elevation. (same turret shown on 1st post of this thread) I was surprized how cheap and small it was. It's only like 1" high and the knurling on the turret was like the side (and size) of a quarter. I was just blown away how crappy it was. Im not in the market for a scope of this magnitude (or price) but if I was, the elevation turret would be an absolute no go for me.
That's the low profile turrets.
There are two other turret types, look at the DT II.
I was fiddling with it at the booth yesterday. MORE than the 5-45 is what they said....
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I’m out…..
Yup they are smoking crack
I am interested in a $4500 6-36 S&B. A $6000-$7000 optic is a whole different proposition.
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I can't tell if you are being serious or not.
Is it possible for Schmidt & Bender's marketing group to do a worse job than they do? US distribution has NO IDEA how much these things are going to cost or when they will hit the street, there are zero video's featuring S&B from SHOT, no one ever knows anything about what S&B is up to. I can't even buy an effing ball cap or t-shirt that says S&B. Nothing. Has anyone ever met a S&B rep? Do they even have one? (and I don't mean EO) Given the amount money as I have sent them they should be sending me birthday cards. The Macallan and VW sure do.
S&B thinks they own you. Thinking hard about making the switch to a manufacturer that actually cares about their customers...
S&B thinks they own you. Thinking hard about making the switch to a manufacturer that actually cares about their customers...
I did like the DT II turrets. I'm just not really a fan of the locking lever on the side of the turret. But the size, feel and sound of this turret was 110% better than the smaller one.
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Actually, I found this to be true at alot of booths at the show - probably like 30%-40%. (some were very responsive) Asking a simple question to the person tending the booth was like a 50/50 chance they had a clue about their product. I realize some people were just hired help, but If I had a booth at the show to display my product I would make sure everyone at my booth had some decent knowledge. Also, there were some booths we walked up to ourselves or saw people walking up to that had the salespeople just huddled around chatting and not helping people at their booth.
For those companies that did a good job - kudos to them, but for the ones that were terrible, Im sure in some way or another it will affect their bottom line in the future when a could be customer turns into a turned off customer and moves on to the next competitor.
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This is what having a big show to plan around does.
Every single shot show, companies are “forced” to release info (often incomplete) at a time not of their choosing.
And then we as consumers get mad because not enough info.
Rinse and repeat every year. We just got a pass last year cause COVID.
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The issue is, you as an owner likely don’t have the proper info.
Because you had choose “do I tell people now when it will generate all the buzz, or in November when everyone is in deer blinds but that’s when I’ll know the right info??”
Is the show on a random date every year and only announced two weeks prior? Plan for it. Every other trade does.
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If I have an XYZ product, that is going to take another 6mo estimated R&D. Could be more or could be less….
Shot is January. Gonna he August ish.
So your choices are now
- announce now with limited (some would call shitty) information. And get as much press as possible.
- announce in august when people don’t care
- wait until next shot show
Either way, the word of mouth and such you get from announcing at shot is worth the headache of dealing with people mad it’s taking longer than they want.
6 months is being kind for S&B. LOL What did it take about 8 years for the 1-8x to come out from it's SHOT reveal? LOL
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Also, this is complicated by consumer/non business infiltrating shot show (and shot allowing it).
If it were actually just industry line it supposed to be, there wouldn’t be such an outcry as most of wouldn’t be known by consumers.
People that either A) don’t have anything to do with industry other than consumers and B) are content creators so they get clicks releasing information….
Far outweigh the industry members when it comes down to talking about stuff outside of shot shot.
Basically it’s a trade show that’s been hijacked and turned into a content creation zoo. And the people who ran shot allowed it to happen.
If it were actually just industry line it supposed to be, there wouldn’t be such an outcry as most of wouldn’t be known by consumers.
People that either A) don’t have anything to do with industry other than consumers and B) are content creators so they get clicks releasing information….
Far outweigh the industry members when it comes down to talking about stuff outside of shot shot.
Basically it’s a trade show that’s been hijacked and turned into a content creation zoo. And the people who ran shot allowed it to happen.
Schmidt's dismal marketing efforts have nothing to do with SHOT or its pedestrians. They've had years to come up with something new. During the time it took to produce the 6-36 they should have been busy creating a US marketing campaign and preparing a product launch. Apparently they did neither, which is par for the course for S&B. They're just not good at selling. The 5-25 has a gray beard and uses a walker and given the quality of the opposition and it's aggressive pricing, it won't prop them up much longer. This 6-36 better be priced to move...
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……just not good at selling? They sell every optic they can make. Advertising…..maybe, selling….they good.
We on forums seem to be very good at claiming to know more than companies like Vortex and Schmidt who are extremely successful.
Ferrari hardly ever advertises. You don’t need to when you sell everything you make.
All this marketing plan you described is only worth it if you wouldn’t sell everything already.
It’s just wasted time and money if the demand outweighs your supply.
Much like Ferrari, they know from warranty registration who owns their products and how many, while unlike Ferrari they don't use that information to directly engage their committed, long term customers (me)
If your theory is correct someone needs to tell Vortex and Nightforce cause they're dropping a kings ransom on marketing.
If your theory is correct someone needs to tell Vortex and Nightforce cause they're dropping a kings ransom on marketing.
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You’re intermingling my points.
People say NF and Vortex are doing things wrong all the time. Like you are doing with S&B.
Yet all three companies and more are doing just fine.
Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
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