When I go price out S&B, they’re like $1-2K more than I’d have expected. The 3-27, the 3-20, the 5-45 are all way up there at least to me.
Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56
- Thread starter Just Macca
- Start date
If I were a betting man (I'm not cause I always lose, just ask my wife) I would venture to say the 6-36 would become Schmidt's best design yet optically and if that is the case I would think it would easily fit into the TT/ZCO level of optics. The 5-25 is very impressive optically even with it's shortcomings (like tunneling) and I'd rank it second runner up behind TT/ZP5/ZCO... why Schmidt would go backward doesn't make sense which is why I think the 6-36 will be even better, but at this stage we are all just predicting and assuming
I felt like that was supposed to be the 327 which again imo was a flop optically....
I'm stoked to see it tho and I hope I'm wrong as I love those dtii+ turrets
I've had the 3-27 and 5-25 for my review with the Vortex G3 6-36 and while I wouldn't say the 3-27 is a flop, I would say the 5-25 bests it in some areas. Trying to get my hands on another TT and ZCO to do a side by side, if anyone has a Hensoldt 3.5-26 they'd like to loan me...
I've had the 3-27 and 5-25 for my review with the Vortex G3 6-36 and while I wouldn't say the 3-27 is a flop, I would say the 5-25 bests it in some areas. Trying to get my hands on another TT and ZCO to do a side by side, if anyone has a Hensoldt 3.5-26 they'd like to loan me...
That's my point...I thought the 525 was better minus the tunneling lol. The 525 beat it everywhere else for me dunno how those 327s are commanding 5.5k
There is a Hens 3.5-26 for sale in the PX.I've had the 3-27 and 5-25 for my review with the Vortex G3 6-36 and while I wouldn't say the 3-27 is a flop, I would say the 5-25 bests it in some areas. Trying to get my hands on another TT and ZCO to do a side by side, if anyone has a Hensoldt 3.5-26 they'd like to loan me...
I own none of this top-tier glass, but I’ve always thought that the tunneling of the Schmitty 5-25 to be a non-issue for most, except people that need 5x for some overwatch capability. Like mil, leo, or some types of hunting.
I get that it bugs people because, well, it’s an expensive scope and gosh darn it, grrrrrrr, but it doesn’t seem to be a big deal. On my lowly Razor 4.5-27, I use 4.5x while fondling, ahem, dry firing in the house, and that’s about it.
I get that it bugs people because, well, it’s an expensive scope and gosh darn it, grrrrrrr, but it doesn’t seem to be a big deal. On my lowly Razor 4.5-27, I use 4.5x while fondling, ahem, dry firing in the house, and that’s about it.
The newer SB 5-25 I played w at EuroOptic had no tunneling on 5x. My older SB 5-25 has a bit of tunneling but I never use it on 5x so it’s not a issue.
There is no new design 5-25… they all tunnel at 7-ish.
Still a great scope, and no surprise it set the bar so long ago.
Schmidt has kind of gone off the deep end with pricing, they started to do this in the mid 20 teens, maybe 2015/2016ish and then had a big price drop with US distributor, but now due to the falling US dollar and other COVID related stupidity around the world the price of European optics has been on a steady rise, but not nearly as fast as Biden's inflation.
Yes, the 3-27's are crazy high lately, I'll be selling mine once I'm done with these reviews, just hope I don't lose too much...
The 3-27 still offers a combination of things no others can.
Splitting hairs, it might not be the king of optics perfection… but everything is a compromise. What other scope has its range, including a low power that enables clip-ons and huge FOV hunting… but also a high power sufficient for the majority of needs.
With huge elevation range.
And dry-fire-in-yo-house parallax.
That said, it does seem S&B is headed back to their old pricing ways…when they were undisputed alpha dog.
Splitting hairs, it might not be the king of optics perfection… but everything is a compromise. What other scope has its range, including a low power that enables clip-ons and huge FOV hunting… but also a high power sufficient for the majority of needs.
With huge elevation range.
And dry-fire-in-yo-house parallax.
That said, it does seem S&B is headed back to their old pricing ways…when they were undisputed alpha dog.
Let me just say I owned 2 TT and sold them both. I still own a older SB 5-25 and a Hensoldt 4-16. My eyes prefer the SB glass over the TT. Now hate
I’ve never owned a TT but currently own a minox, I prefer the SB525 over the minox. I’m constantly buying and selling scopes, but just can’t part ways with the 5-25 SB.
It’s one thing to offer that power range it is quit another to perform well with that range. I just don’t see it is a practical scope, way to tight of an eye box to be a practical scope for me.
VAT is something ridiculous like 22% which should not be included in non Europe pricing, so hopefully 3200-40000 USD but I'm not hopeful.
When S&B made their changes to retailers/distributors the price of something like a 3-20 US increased by almost 2k AUD here.
It's now at the point where the tremor3 is 6k AUD, that's more than I paid for a 3.5-26 Hensoldt ten years ago
(not accounting for funny money, only found out the other day that 40% of all USD that ever existed were printed since 2020, must have been putin.)
per google.
Value-added tax (VAT) is a consumption tax on goods and services that is levied at each stage of the supply chain where value is added, from initial production to the point of sale.
Basically a way for a government to tax something multiple times, in the EU I think the general rate is about 22% so you can see how prices add up.
I wasn’t sure how much of the quoted price VAT made up so had to convert based on what I knew. I’m hoping it will end up being more inline with $3200-$4000 as you suggested.
VAT is a garbage socialist tax, that’s the long and short of it.
The only value it adds is to line politicians pocketbooks. Surprised Biden hasn’t tried to introduce it, you know, to help boost our booming economy
In the video...no tunneling at the low end and 3-4 months away from shipping to dealers.
...and fuck VAT.
...and fuck VAT.
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I am thinking about listing my two SB scopes now. I have the 5-25 and the 3-27 and replacing them with these two scopes. If these are indeed around the 4500 to 5k mark, I will just bite the bullet and go with it. Liking what I am hearing thus far. Is the only place to order these Eurooptic once they become available?
Starting at 3400ish has my attention. If they are right at 4k with the dtii+ turrets I'd bite but I'll be waiting for the msr2 to finally get shoved in there.
I’ll bite at even 4500 with the DTII+ with the P5FL. …I’ll just send it in later for the MSR2 swap. I just want something new and shiny…that isn’t 18” long
I’ll bite at even 4500 with the DTII+ with the P5FL. …I’ll just send it in later for the MSR2 swap. I just want something new and shiny…that isn’t 18” long
Are reticle swaps cheaper in Europe? I know to have it done in Virginia it was like 2k last time I asked
Oppppfffff 2k?!!??!?? Fuck me. Last I heard it was like $800. Shit I’ll take a fine map pen to the lens and turn the P5FL into an MSR2i
No idea on cost if I were to take it next door. I emailed and asked if they do factory tours but haven’t gotten a response yet. I’ll absolutely snag one here if I can get fuckin VAT waived. There’s zero chance in hell I’m paying a socialist tax on a freedom tool. I’ve done my best to not contribute to that scam for the past two years and I’m not about to start now.
Honestly I don’t know what I’d do with it here…but I think it will serve as a good replacement for the ATACR that sits on top of my son’s airsoft AW
One of you guys w real deep pockets needs to do a NF torture test w the SB 6-36.
Jerry quoted me around $800 not too long ago, I think they've been around there for quite a while so would be shocked if they upped the price that much.
What reticle?Schmidt has kind of gone off the deep end with pricing, they started to do this in the mid 20 teens, maybe 2015/2016ish and then had a big price drop with US distributor, but now due to the falling US dollar and other COVID related stupidity around the world the price of European optics has been on a steady rise, but not nearly as fast as Biden's inflation.
Yes, the 3-27's are crazy high lately, I'll be selling mine once I'm done with these reviews, just hope I don't lose too much...
How do you like that reticle?
Per Jerry recently, $802.48 for P4F, H2CMR, Klein, etc, $868.92 for GR2ID, LRR, MSR and MSR2, and $953.73 for all Horus offerings.
That’s nice of them to pay people $953 to use a Horus reticle.
That’s cool though, $868 isn’t bad for a reticle swap & cleaning/inspection. Thanks for sharing.
I had a look at the S&B 6-36 at both EnforceTac and IWA a few weeks ago. The upgraded 5-25 was there as well, but the new 5-20 apparently got stuck in customs.
The 6-36 has a lot of interesting upgrades. Biggest plus was that the magnification wheel was very easy to shift, huge difference vs the 5-25. Optics wise it's hard to say from inside an exhibition, but couldn't really see any flaws. New parallax and illumination was great too.
6-36 is the new 5-25! Makes me want to switch all my 5-25s (I have 2).
I paid about €500 for a reticle shift to GR2ID and MSR2 in EU, incl VAT and shipping.
The 6-36 has a lot of interesting upgrades. Biggest plus was that the magnification wheel was very easy to shift, huge difference vs the 5-25. Optics wise it's hard to say from inside an exhibition, but couldn't really see any flaws. New parallax and illumination was great too.
6-36 is the new 5-25! Makes me want to switch all my 5-25s (I have 2).
I paid about €500 for a reticle shift to GR2ID and MSR2 in EU, incl VAT and shipping.
Curious, what is the "upgraded" 5-25, what exactly is upgraded about it?
Riflescopes - New Products - 5-25x56 PM II - NEW
www.schmidtundbender.de NEW FEATURES FOR 5-25x56 PM II
1. Ultra flat double Turn (DT27)
The 5-25x56 PM II features now the well-proven low-profile double turn elevation turret which is capable of 27 MRAD (DT27). It perfectly supports the use of an additional red dot sight for close distances. Although being very compact, it maintains all essential features of a Double Turn turret such as a visual and tactile yellow-colored revolution indicator, locking function, MTC clicks and easy to read digits.
2. New magnification ring
The ocular design is now fully rugged and is made out of solid aluminum. It has been further optimized and now features a magnification ring with deep grooves for a better grip which also allows to accommodate our Throw Lever.3. New diopter adjustment
In addition, the diopter has been redesigned in order to attach our military grade Polarization Filter Ocular (see page 45) via a thread. The ribbed structure of the diopter adjustment makes it suitable for the tactical Tenebraex Ocular Lens Cover.4. P5FL Reticle
The new P5FL basically resembles the popular pattern of our well-known P4FL reticle which was initially designed for military snipers and has been well-proven around the globe.Reflecting the ongoing technical evolution the new P5FL represents a slight upgrade without forcing the operator to get used to a completely new reticle design.
It is also perfect for competition shooters and modern hunters alike who prefer a clean reticle design which is reduced to the most important essentials without distracting features. Those who are already enjoying the P4FL reticle will find confidence in the new P5FL reticle.
And someone, I believe in this thread, mentioned the the scope doesn’t tunnel anymore? Perhaps that was one of those “sneak it in there along the way” type of production change throughout the years.Riflescopes - New Products - 5-25x56 PM II - NEW
NEW FEATURES FOR 5-25x56 PM II
1. Ultra flat double Turn (DT27)
The 5-25x56 PM II features now the well-proven low-profile double turn elevation turret which is capable of 27 MRAD (DT27). It perfectly supports the use of an additional red dot sight for close distances. Although being very compact, it maintains all essential features of a Double Turn turret such as a visual and tactile yellow-colored revolution indicator, locking function, MTC clicks and easy to read digits.
2. New magnification ring
The ocular design is now fully rugged and is made out of solid aluminum. It has been further optimized and now features a magnification ring with deep grooves for a better grip which also allows to accommodate our Throw Lever.
3. New diopter adjustment
In addition, the diopter has been redesigned in order to attach our military grade Polarization Filter Ocular (see page 45) via a thread. The ribbed structure of the diopter adjustment makes it suitable for the tactical Tenebraex Ocular Lens Cover.
4. P5FL Reticle
The new P5FL basically resembles the popular pattern of our well-known P4FL reticle which was initially designed for military snipers and has been well-proven around the globe.
Reflecting the ongoing technical evolution the new P5FL represents a slight upgrade without forcing the operator to get used to a completely new reticle design.
It is also perfect for competition shooters and modern hunters alike who prefer a clean reticle design which is reduced to the most important essentials without distracting features. Those who are already enjoying the P4FL reticle will find confidence in the new P5FL reticle.
So for those lookin to pick one of these up… are you going GR2ID or P5FL?
I had the gr2id in a pair of 525s it's not bad for a tree. It's actually pretty easy to see through when you don't want it.
I feel like the p5 missed with not having .2 mil wind holds in the first mil but still pretty decent.
I bet other reticles will be following
Yea it was disappointing to see that, in 2022, a new mil reticle doesn’t have .2 subtensions. I’m actually torn between old school and that massive grid. But if it’s not as bad in reality, I might give it a shot. Worst case I’ll swap to the Tremor 8.
Yea it was disappointing to see that, in 2022, a new mil reticle doesn’t have .2 subtensions. I’m actually torn between old school and that massive grid. But if it’s not as bad in reality, I might give it a shot. Worst case I’ll swap to the Tremor 8.
I would def take the gr2id over anything Horus lol. Way easier to see through
Nah man, Horus 8 Gen4 is where it’s at. You don’t even know you like it until you think you can see the target through the screen door.
Fuck Horus. But yea man, I’m torn between these two reticles and the MPCT3X in the ZCO840. Fuckin first world problems
. That's what I thought. If that is the case then why re-design the 5-25 when the 6-36 is coming out that essentially covers the range of the 5-25? I'm thinking maybe more for some military contract???
Or maybe the Austrians Hanz & Franz visited the factory and made ze Germans feel bad? Lol
“YAH YAH WHAT A BABY LITTLE SCOPE, TUNNELS LIKE A GIRL!”
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