Rifle Scopes New Schmidt & Bender PM2 6-36x56

[Kiba]

So guys, if you had to choose, S&B 5-25 or S&B 6-36?

I want a different scope on top of my .308 bolt gun

At new prices?

The 6-36 is a no brainer, especially if you want DTII+ turrets on the 5-25 as that pushes them up to nearly the same price as the 6-36. Given the minimal cost difference I'd rather spend my money on the brand new design 6-36 rather than on the 18 year old design 5-25 (that is still pretty damn good, admittedly. I have 6 of the 5-25s that I started buying back in 2010 and they've never let me down, and using them back to back with my Tangent 5-25s never leaves me feeling like I'm missing out. I keep thinking about selling a few off and upgrading and never do, as every time I use them I realize I'd be losing money selling them for not a lot of gains.)

Even though the US market 6-36 has an artificially limited FOV compared to the Euro version, the FOV limited US market 6-36 still has a slightly wider AFOV than the 5-25, and actually has a much larger FOV on the bottom end because the 6-36 doesn't tunnel from 5-7.5x like the 5-25.

Used is another story. A 5-25 at $2200ish used is a good scope for the money provided you find one with a reticle you like, you don't mind tunneling from 5-7.5x, and you don't mind the finer graduations on the DT turrets... and if you don't like it you can sell it for what you paid for it.

 

[Night Vision Viking]

So guys, if you had to choose, S&B 5-25 or S&B 6-36?

I want a different scope on top of my .308 bolt gun

Unless it comes down to a specific reticle, the 6-36x beats the 5-25 in more or less all departments.

Get the 6-36x! Full resolution from 6x, no tunneling, with a wider FOV than the 5-25 has on 5x.

Furthermore, the 6-36 is lighter, shorter, has better mountability, better optical quality. The illumination has been approved by the Bundeswehr. The "drilling process" gets rid of dead corners inside the tube. Those are some of my notes from my visit.

 

[Night Vision Viking]

I still have a lot of love for the good old 5-25x. Here's one getting the final touch, before being sent out to a customer who's probably very eager to get it zeroed and tried out.

Note the new boxes, which are very nice and quite an upgrade from the previous ones.

One thing I learnt during my visit, the Schmidt & Benders are really hand-built to the customer's specification, for a niche market and a specific need. The turret you like, turning CW or CCW. The reticle you preferred. There's no "mass production".

"This is my riflescope - there are not many like it"

and while we're on the subject LOL.

 

[Guthwine]

So guys, if you had to choose, S&B 5-25 or S&B 6-36?

I want a different scope on top of my .308 bolt gun

If I had to choose again, knowing what I know now. I would go the the 5-25 with DTII+. Imho I like the illumination seperated from the parallax better and from what I have seen the 5-25 has alot less CA than my 6-36. The tunneling would bother me less than the amount of CA i get.

 

[clonebuilder]

this thread just keeps telling me everyone has different eyes and opinions on the top 3 brands and you cant go wrong there with any choice.

 

[Islas82]

this thread just keeps telling me everyone has different eyes and opinions on the top 3 brands and you cant go wrong there with any choice.

At this level you really can’t go wrong. Some people are just loyal to their brands and that’s ok.

I still have a lot of love for the good old 5-25x. Here's one getting the final touch, before being sent out to a customer who's probably very eager to get it zeroed and tried out.

Note the new boxes, which are very nice and quite an upgrade from the previous ones.

One thing I learnt during my visit, the Schmidt & Benders are really hand-built to the customer's specification, for a niche market and a specific need. The turret you like, turning CW or CCW. The reticle you preferred. There's no "mass production".

"This is my riflescope - there are not many like it"

View attachment 8279315

and while we're on the subject LOL.

View attachment 8279316

I like the fact that the went with black numbers on the pantone. One of the things I hate the most on my ZCO FDE is the white numbers that sometimes are hard to see.

 

[taliv]

Wrt us and eu versions, is something gained by the limited fov? Ie is the limiting mechanism completely artificial and 100% negative or is it a change to the design that has some slight trade off like a tiny bit better resolution etc?

 

[Kiba]

Wrt us and eu versions, is something gained by the limited fov? Ie is the limiting mechanism completely artificial and 100% negative or is it a change to the design that has some slight trade off like a tiny bit better resolution etc?

Strictly for patent compliance to keep Swarovski lawyers at bay. US market scopes get a reduced/limited FOV, non-US market scopes have a much wider FOV.

 

[Huskydriver]

Wrt us and eu versions, is something gained by the limited fov? Ie is the limiting mechanism completely artificial and 100% negative or is it a change to the design that has some slight trade off like a tiny bit better resolution etc?

Patent...it's been discussed alot.

 

[taliv]

I understand why they did it. I’m asking about the optical mechanism they used to comply. Is there any sort of positive trade off associated with it?

 

[Glassaholic]

I understand why they did it. I’m asking about the optical mechanism they used to comply. Is there any sort of positive trade off associated with it?

It is likely an internal field stop - essential an aperture reduction device which could account for slightly greater DOF (depth of field), reports from non-USA version indicate excellent edge to edge sharpness so doubtful there is much advantage there but with any optical system the more you move toward center the better the optical performance so there may be slight perception of better periphery IQ.

 

[JakeM]

Does anybody know why Kahles has the field stop?
I thought they are a part of Swaro so they should be able to get around the patent, right?

The field stop in the K318i I looked through was extremely obvious and took up a ton of the FOV.
It looked like it was tunneling through the whole mage range and was horrible.

 

[Glassaholic]

Does anybody know why Kahles has the field stop?
I thought they are a part of Swaro so they should be able to get around the patent, right?

The field stop in the K318i I looked through was extremely obvious and took up a ton of the FOV.
It looked like it was tunneling through the whole mage range and was horrible.

They seemingly fixed that with the DLR version of the 5-25. Many have been asking for a DLR version of the 3.5-18, until then the 3.5-18 does not have much appeal due to the narrow FOV as you mention.

 

[wooferocau]

Just asking...

Anyone had ANY issues at all with the 6-36 samples they have purchased?

 

[Dogtown]

I had one where the elevation turret wouldn't reset properly. Sent it to Jerry at S&B USA and he turned it around in a day. Works as expected now. And I should point out this is my eighth S&B scope in almost 25 years and this is the first time I sent one back to fix something.

 

[wooferocau]

S&B 6-36 on 50BMG

Sight in after barrel change from 375CT..

3 shots 120yds..

 

[RayDBonz]

That's a $15 group right there!

 

[wooferocau]

That's a $15 group right there!

Nah !!! In Aus its a $60 group..

 

[beetroot]

S&B 6-36 on 50BMG

Sight in after barrel change from 375CT..

3 shots 120yds..

218gr of powder per trigger pull means you get 70 rounds per kilo of powder.

Ouch.

 

[wooferocau]

1kg tins of powder are for wussies...
Real men use 4kg (multiple)..

 

[AMI75]

S&B 6-36 on 50BMG

Sight in after barrel change from 375CT..

3 shots 120yds..

Hi, I'm also considering the S&B 6-36. The mount you use, must be à Spuhr SP-4808 with a 13Mil (44.4 MOA) tilt. By zeroing with this mount you must be very close to the lower limit of the optics and elevation turret. Do you experience any distortion in the image, especially when shooting at closer distances (as here at 120 yds)? Thank you very much!

 

[wooferocau]

Hi, I'm also considering the S&B 6-36. The mount you use, must be à Spuhr SP-4808 with a 13Mil (44.4 MOA) tilt. By zeroing with this mount you must be very close to the lower limit of the optics and elevation turret. Do you experience any distortion in the image, especially when shooting at closer distances (as here at 120 yds)? Thank you very much!

There is a VERY small amount of change at the extremes...Bottom and Top of full travel. Its not distortion as such , just a small change of finite sharpness/focus. Its VERY VERY small.

ALL optics will have some degradation at extremes of travel. The best i have previously seen is the TT 5-25, but the S&B 6-36 is a little better but with a huge range of near 40mil,s of travel..

From memory i think i still have 3 or so mils before hitting full bottom travel with a 100yd zero using the SP 4802 13mil /44.4moa mount.

 

[AMI75]

There is a VERY small amount of change at the extremes...Bottom and Top of full travel. Its not distortion as such , just a small change of finite sharpness/focus. Its VERY VERY small.

ALL optics will have some degradation at extremes of travel. The best i have previously seen is the TT 5-25, but the S&B 6-36 is a little better but with a huge range of near 40mil,s of travel..

From memory i think i still have 3 or so mils before hitting full bottom travel with a 100yd zero using the SP 4802 13mil /44.4moa mount.

Thank you very much!
Actually 9mil / 30 moa tilt would be enough for my purposes. SP sells the SP 4902C, which is 6mm lower. So I'm afraid that the free space left between the rail and the front of the scope (with sunshade and objective cap) will be to small (calculated only about 1 mm = 0.039 inch). Unfortunately there are no other Spuhr mounts (Eratac neighter) that have that tilt AND are a bit higher.

 

[wooferocau]

Had a request for some pics of P5FL reticle at 6x and 36x....at 300mtrs

Just put them here also for anyone else interested..

 

[madangler1]

Had a request for some pics of P5FL reticle at 6x and 36x....at 300mtrs

Just put them here also for anyone else interested..

Thank you. It is much appreciated.

So how is the eyebox beyond 25x? The exit pupil is quoted as being < 2 mm diameter on S&B's website and catalog, so I was curious. I have crap eyes, and I am very sensitive to those issues. The one photo you posted that was off-center appears to still show the target quite well. I'm assuming you did that on purpose.

I'm debating between this and a S&B 5-25. I am incredibly happy with my Short Dot Dual thus far. If Tangent Theta wasn't over $5k now, I would try them as well.

Only hold up on the 6-36 model is the reticle choices. I wish they offered something like the SKMR3 on the Kahles. The Tremor 5 seems less busy than the Tremor 3 though. The P5FL is probably all I need, but it would be nice to have some windage0 markers the first 1-2 mils of bullet drop.

 

[wooferocau]

The eyebox on the 6-36 is superb...even at 36x..
I have 2 S&B 5-25....the 6-36 is in another league..

 

[Islas82]

Ok pulled the trigger. S&B on its way hopefully here tomorrow. Will post impressions. I got the P5FL.

 

[Islas82]

Got this guy yesterday as promised. First impressions are overwhelmingly positive this is my first S&B scope and I gotta say the quality and finish is impressive. I have owned NF, TT, ZCO and this just feels different, I love the simple not overly “tactical” design. They have come a long way in their packaging too I felt like I was opening a pair of Tom Ford’s or a fancy scotch.

First impressions of the P5FL are good it kind reminds me of the Delta LRD-1P with out the crosses and lil less information. Am not gonna lie I would have liked a .5 mark but overall am getting what I was looking for which was a cleaner and simple reticle. Will have to see how I like it in practice.

Turrets are amazing and have topped my list as the best I have ever felt. DTII+ design is great and the clicks are perfect, numbers easy to see and the lever is genius. On a “negative” note I would say that the .1 marks are a tad too close for a 15mil rev and my windage turret is significantly more muted and soft than the elevation. The MTC is nice but I wouldn’t call it a more tactile click it’s more like a more tactile stop.

Overall super excited to get this over to the range and start shootings. I can’t really discuss optical quality until I start shooting and finish up the set up process on my gun but the lil bit I saw it seems on par with anything I have used before.

 

[wooferocau]

As i have stated... ( a lot ) .. I have had MANY high end optics...and the S&B 6-36 is hands down my favourite by quite a margin !!!

I am sure you will love it !!

 

[wooferocau]

Just recently I took a 6-36 down to our local gun store for a few people to compare to the optics they had in stock.

All who compared were shocked how good the S&B is.
One individual was dead set on the Zeiss LRP S5.....until he looked through the S&B!!!
The Zeiss looked VERY ordinary in comparison!!!

 

[beetroot]

Just recently I took a 6-36 down to our local gun store for a few people to compare to the optics they had in stock.

All who compared were shocked how good the S&B is.
One individual was dead set on the Zeiss LRP S5.....until he looked through the S&B!!!
The Zeiss looked VERY ordinary in comparison!!!

I'm pretty sure I've asked this already, how much are these in Australia and where did you buy it?

 

[wooferocau]

I'm pretty sure I've asked this already, how much are these in Australia and where did you buy it?

The MT variant i have ( 2 of f) are circa AUD $7800 and the DT ( 1 off ) variant is circa AUD $6600

S&B Australia.... ( Andrew at 2Tracks) ) https://schmidtandbender.com.au

 

[Huskydriver]

I had one where the elevation turret wouldn't reset properly. Sent it to Jerry at S&B USA and he turned it around in a day. Works as expected now. And I should point out this is my eighth S&B scope in almost 25 years and this is the first time I sent one back to fix something.

Was that on a mtii turret?

 

[Islas82]

Does anyone make an after market throw lever for S&B PMII besides that horrible shark fin thing?

 

[Huskydriver]

Does anyone make an after market throw lever for S&B PMII besides that horrible shark fin thing?

Aadlaand eng

 

[Islas82]

Aadlaand eng

Thank you. Just messaged them to see if their existing line up fit the 6-36. I would imagine they do.

 

[Huskydriver]

Thank you. Just messaged them to see if their existing line up fit the 6-36. I would imagine they do.

If you give me the od of the knurling I can tell you if it's the same as any of the models I currently use. Looks like the same as a 327 so that's one should fit

 

[TheOE800]

Fuckin Zeiss S5 tank turrets LOL

 

[Islas82]

If you give me the od of the knurling I can tell you if it's the same as any of the models I currently use. Looks like the same as a 327 so that's one should fit

It’s just a bit over 6 1/2” in diameter. Thank you.

 

[Dogtown]

Was that on a mtii turret?

DT II+. He said there was a problem with one of the turret screws not releasing a detent, so he replaced it and a spring. Runs like a champ now.

 

[carbonbased]

Fuckin Zeiss S5 tank turrets LOL

They’re like the scope equivalent of ape hangers…

 

[wooferocau]

Fuckin Zeiss S5 tank turrets LOL

When we compared the S&B 6-36 to the Zeiss S5 ...the S&B was like looking through a wide angle lens...........the Zeiss.... like looking through the cardboard tube in a Dunny roll!!

 

[carbonbased]

When we compared the S&B 6-36 to the Zeiss S5 ...the S&B was like looking through a wide angle lens...........the Zeiss.... like looking through the cardboard tube in a Dunny roll!!

Probably the same look through both in the USA due to Swaro #FOVgate!

Ok, maybe not but still

 

[Kiba]

Probably the same look through both in the USA due to Swaro #FOVgate!

Ok, maybe not but still

AFOV of the S3 6-36 is 22.69 degrees compared to the US version S&B 6-36 at 21.66 degrees (non-us version is 25.78 degrees), so in the US market the S3 has the wider image at the same mag level...

 

[carbonbased]

AFOV of the S3 6-36 is 22.69 degrees compared to the US version S&B 6-36 at 21.66 degrees (non-us version is 25.78 degrees), so in the US market the S3 has the wider image at the same mag level...

 

[carbonbased]

AFOV of the S3 6-36 is 22.69 degrees compared to the US version S&B 6-36 at 21.66 degrees (non-us version is 25.78 degrees), so in the US market the S3 has the wider image at the same mag level...

I’m in this evil cycle of edging closer to buying a RAL8000 6-36 that I don’t need but then re-remember that fact above (thx Kiba, I guess?), then promptly forget it once I hit Eurooptic’s site. Groundhog Day, S&B-style.

 

[wooferocau]

I’m in this evil cycle of edging closer to buying a RAL8000 6-36 that I don’t need but then re-remember that fact above (thx Kiba, I guess?), then promptly forget it once I hit Eurooptic’s site. Groundhog Day, S&B-style.

Not a 6-36....but .... i have a 3-27 in "Pantone" colour ... very sexy!!

 

[JER6.5]

Not a 6-36....but .... i have a 3-27 in "Pantone" colour ... very sexy!!

I wish they would offer the 6-36 with multiturn turrett in Ral8000…

 

[Dogtown]

I’m pretty sure they will. Eurooptic said the only RAL8000 they got in the first shipment were D27 & D35

 

[JER6.5]

I’m pretty sure they will. Eurooptic said the only RAL8000 they got in the first shipment were D27 & D35

Might be, I ordered one with DTII+ in RAL8000 in may this year but was told only available in D27/35.