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Rifle Scopes Nightforce v US Optics

WATERWALKER

WATERWALKER

0311 SHELLBACK
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Apr 19, 2014
    1,104
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    Deep in the Lone Star
    I'm planning to purchase a new optic for a Remington Sendero chambered in .300 WM. This rifle will be used for hunting, long range shooting, & possibly competitively. I've narrowed my choices down to 2 scopes. They are the Nightforce F1 (3 -15 x 50) & will include target turrets, zero stops, & illuminated reticle. The US Optics LR17 (3.2 - 17 x 44) has EREK knobs, illuminated reticle, zero stops, & internal level.

    I've never owned a product from either company. Reputations of both companies are great, but I'm looking for input / advice as well as pros / cons from other shooters w/ experience w/ both or either product. These products are pricey so any & all opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance.
     
    Like Nortex said, either options will work very well for you. I had a USO on a .308 and a Nightforce on my 338 Lapua, both scopes will do everything you need it to do.

    Forewarning: People will probably recommend a cheaper scope for a factory Sendero. I have a Sendero in 7 Mag and I use a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 up top. I am not recommending you get a less expensive scope like this, I just haven't seen the need to put anything nicer on here yet.
     
    By far, my favorite elevation knob is the EREK, perfect spacing, great feel, low profile. I have had issues with USO scopes, and those issues have always been dealt with in a very rapid and courteous manner.
    Nightforce optics are known for their durability, mechanical quality, and "okay" glass - at least in the NXS series.

    I have owned both scopes mentioned and eventually sold both for very different reasons. Given your stated use, I don't see what the extra $600-$800 for the USO gets you.

    In the end, get the one you really want, else you will be buying again. Voice of experience.
     
    Most of my time in the fall is spent with a S&B Zenith or Zeiss Victory Diavari and the glass in those scopes is second to none and I have come to expect the same from my tactical scopes. I curently own three USO Scopes (SR-8S, MR-10, and LR-17) and have nothing but praise for them. The clarity, definition, and colors are exceptional, on par with my Zeiss, and only a gnats ass behind the S&B. The EREK knobs are by far the best exposed turret design I have used - positive clicks, easy to read, easy to count revs, and very easy to adjust/setup. I use the reticle for wind so I also prefer the covered windage knobs that USO uses. The parallax knobs are accurate to the distance engraved on them and the eyepiece is not too large to have problems with bolt or rail clearance. The mil-GAP reticle is also an extremely clean and useful reticle, it is my first choice over any of the other tactical reticles. Exceptional scopes for the money.

    I also have had the 2.5-10x32 NXS Compact Nightforce and my complaint was always the glass quality - the definition was never as sharp as I expected for a scope of that price. I will probably get flamed for this, but to my eyes it was no better than a Leupold Mark 4 (not that this is bad…just not the absolute best).
     
    Last edited:
    If comparing the USO to a NightForce NXS, I would go with the USO. If comparing a USO to a NightForce ATACR, I would go with the ATACR every time. As I've said before, if NightForce were to release a FFP ATACR at a $2800 price point, it would obliterate the competition.

    Unfortunately, you've got to spend $1000 more over the cost of an ATACR if you want the latest FFP from NightForce and if I'm going to pay that, I might as well explore other options such as Schmidt Bender.
     
    Have owned a few of both you are looking at. Between the two I would definitely take the NF. The F1s have better reticles now than the straight MLR I had which was my main problem with the scope.

    4 out of 5 USOs I had didn't track correctly. Glass was good but not as good as the F1 or other similarly priced scopes. Everyone praises the EREK knob and while it is low profile it's a pain in the ass to zero and there is no actual zero stop. Years ago it was fairly innovative but it's been eclipsed by better basic knobs with zero stops that are easy to use. The GAP reticle is the best part of the scope.

    Have you looked at the Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50? Loaded with features and excellent reticle choices and can be had at Cameraland for $1649 in their "demo" models which are basically open boxed new scopes.
     
    Hey y'all, I appreciate the input. I've looked at the Vortex Razor models a bit. I decided to go w/ the USO or NF based upon the little bit of time I've spent looking through them, reputation for quality, etc. Believe me when I say I'm in no hurry to spend excess money needlessly. You stated that 4/5 USOs didn't track properly. This is exactly the reason I asked for opinions of other shooters w/ experience w/ these optics. This is precisely the reason I chose to pose this question; which is the better option?

    I've been looking at other threads & it seems that Vortex has come out w/ a few new models in the Razor line. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vortex seems to have a solid reputation. I believe they're called the RAZOR II HD. I'd certainly be interested in a Razor II as well. As I said before, any & all opinions are welcome. I know that the are many more shooters w/ more experience & knowledge than I possess.
     
    OK, I guess I will be the voice of dissention and say that I would not put a NF, USO, or S&B on a stock sendero. Now if you have plans to take it all the way down to the action and rebuild it to the point of being competitive, as that is what you may do in the future, by all means spend away on some quality glass that can grow with the upgrades. However, if you have "plans" to do certain things and you have a habit of never getting around to them, save yourself some money and look at cheaper options. The problem you have is that you looked through some high quality glass and then when you look through stuff closer to a limited price point, you are not happy. Kind of like looking through million dollar homes and then telling the relator you have a 300k budget. On my last 700P I used a Bushnell HDMR as I don't have plans of changing that .308 very much. Just put in a DBM and a new trigger and called it good.
     
    WATERWALKER said:
    Hey y'all, I appreciate the input. I've looked at the Vortex Razor models a bit. I decided to go w/ the USO or NF based upon the little bit of time I've spent looking through them, reputation for quality, etc. Believe me when I say I'm in no hurry to spend excess money needlessly. You stated that 4/5 USOs didn't track properly. This is exactly the reason I asked for opinions of other shooters w/ experience w/ these optics. This is precisely the reason I chose to pose this question; which is the better option?

    I've been looking at other threads & it seems that Vortex has come out w/ a few new models in the Razor line. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vortex seems to have a solid reputation. I believe they're called the RAZOR II HD. I'd certainly be interested in a Razor II as well. As I said before, any & all opinions are welcome. I know that the are many more shooters w/ more experience & knowledge than I possess.
    Click to expand...

    Vortex has an excellent reputation especially with their high end Razor line. Take another look at the Razor 5-20. Glass is excellent on them. Look at the reticle options and the features.
    Vortex Tactical - Razor HD Riflescopes
    Link to Cameraland
    Vortex - Camera Land NY

    The new Razor II that are coming out are going to be really nice scopes. Again loaded with features and the 4.5-27x will be $2499. They won't be out until most likely July though so not sure if you were looking to wait. I have 2 on order after seeing them in person at SHOT Show.
     
    Rob01,

    4/5 scopes? Do you still have them? If so send them back. Since we changed the internals about three years ago we have not had many that came back from not tracking properly. I know over the past two years I personally kept track of all repairs and returns and we had less than 10 come back for that reason.
     
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    I have 5 that all track perfectly, and I know how to properly test them. USO has made huge improvements in recent years.
     
    ssgtkyle said:
    Rob01,

    4/5 scopes? Do you still have them? If so send them back. Since we changed the internals about three years ago we have not had many that came back from not tracking properly. I know over the past two years I personally kept track of all repairs and returns and we had less than 10 come back for that reason.
    Click to expand...

    No they are long gone. Hopefully you did get them fixed but lost faith. Sorry.
     
    I can't speak for USO, but I do own a NF, NXS 3.5x15x56. It tracks perfectly and I have yet to have any issues with it. I bought it in 2008. The glass is not in the class with S&B, but neither is the price. If you want top glass, get a S&B. If you want a great scope that functions marvelously and at a decent price, get a NF.

    Also, I wouldn't listen to the guys who tell you not to buy it to put it on a factory rifle. Mine has been on a Browning, Remington and now on a Savage. All of those rifles were well under $1,000.00 and the scope was $1,500.00. Buy what you want and then you won't be kicking yourself later. I have no regrets. There are other great scopes out there, but this is one I know about from personal experience. Good luck.
     
    I've owned both!! USO was used (3 of them) and I thought the quality of the scopes were great, they are not hard to zero at all, just different from others!!

    I contacted US Optics before buying used scopes, wondering what I'd do if I happened to get one that "had issues" They offered to "Service it" for me for around $60 & set everything up as needed, turn it around in a week or so, and told me if it had serious issues due to internal failure, they'd take care of it!!! This isn't even a profit maker for them, just a service to keep scopes on rifles!!!!!!

    I've owned new NF scopes, never had any issues with them and they tracked good, over & over!!! I couldn't get the service, turn around, or even response from someone at NF the one time I tried to get some info & mine wasn't even broke!!! I couldn't imagine how pissed I'd been had it been something serious!!!

    But I like both!!!!!! I think I'd rather own one that I can get serviced easier, if & when needed!!!!
     
    I sent a 1 year old scope back to USO for the second time, to fix the same problem.

    The second time it was at USO, there for 3 months. Called, they "would get to it in a few days".

    Asked them to send it back, I sold it.

    Year old scope, sent in twice to fix the same problem, there for 3 months, nothing. 2012 manufacture date scope.

    At this point:

     
    I have used the Nightforce 3.5-15x50 F1 with HS MIL ZS Turrets and MLR2 Reticle. This is an absolute showstopper when it comes to performance. Besides, there are other models from Nightforce NXS F1 with Zerostop technology and illuminated reticles. When you spend time behind the glass, you will appreciate the well thought out reticle of these devices. It has been a decade since I'm using Nightforce Optics and for me it will Nightforce in any condition.
     
    smschulz said:
    I have both.
    It would be very difficult which one I like better.
    I call it a draw.
    So sorry guess that's no help.
    Click to expand...

    Same here, but on the Sendero I would take a long look at the Bushnell Elite FFP G2DMR 3.5-21X50 scope. I tried 1 a while back and was so happy with it I now own 3. Tracking is spot on and the glass imo is almost as good as the Nightforce scopes I own. For a little 0ver $1100 is hard to beat. A much better scope than the VV Viper PST FFP 4-16X50 scopes I own.
     
    Rob01,
    I do not agree with stating that USO does not have a zero stop my erek knob does have one you just have to set and it is not a pain in the ass you can also that knob so you have all the up elevation it has in the scope you never pass up a chance to say how you dislike US Optics mine performs flawlessly
     
    Sometimes I do pass it up but when the question comes up and I have owned multiple models of both makers I will give my opinion from my personal experience. Sorry that bothers you. Glad yours works and you like the EREK but the fact is the EREK is not a zero stop. You have to finagle the erector and knob to try and get it right. Not always where you want it like an actual zero stop.
     
    NF F1 as I have one and love it. It's a keeper for sure! LV.5 reticle and simple as it can get.
     
    Rob01,
    Looks like we agree to disagree
    No offense taken you have your flavor I have mine and to water walker get the EREK and never look back
     
    Rob01 said:
    Have owned a few of both you are looking at. Between the two I would definitely take the NF. The F1s have better reticles now than the straight MLR I had which was my main problem with the scope.

    4 out of 5 USOs I had didn't track correctly. Glass was good but not as good as the F1 or other similarly priced scopes. Everyone praises the EREK knob and while it is low profile it's a pain in the ass to zero and there is no actual zero stop. Years ago it was fairly innovative but it's been eclipsed by better basic knobs with zero stops that are easy to use. The GAP reticle is the best part of the scope.

    Have you looked at the Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50? Loaded with features and excellent reticle choices and can be had at Cameraland for $1649 in their "demo" models which are basically open boxed new scopes.
    Click to expand...

    Mile High Shooting is still offering the Razor HD 5-20 with a Spuhr mount (in the "Bargain Bin") for $2k, another good deal.
     
    MagnumSecurity said:
    Also, I wouldn't listen to the guys who tell you not to buy it to put it on a factory rifle. Mine has been on a Browning, Remington and now on a Savage. All of those rifles were well under $1,000.00 and the scope was $1,500.00. Buy what you want and then you won't be kicking yourself later. I have no regrets. There are other great scopes out there, but this is one I know about from personal experience. Good luck.
    Click to expand...

    This.
    Putting a great scope on a mediocre rifle is not going to make the rifle shoot any worse.
    If the rifle is ever accurized (action trued, barreled with a premium tube) or replaced with a custom (or an AI) you've already got the scope.
     
    Have both scopes, my USO's are a few years old with the ERGO parallax adj. which I prefer over the dial type. To my eyes the NF has the better glass not by a lot but discernible. Have several USO's and have never had an issue with dialing correctly, that is one of the reasons I run them. Just the one F1 NF but a couple of NSX 2nd. focal plane scopes, none of which I've had issues. These are not safe queens, they get used in matches, hunts, and a lot of practice. Dialed up and down, load development etc.

    If I could only keep one it would be the NF F1. Little bit lighter, little better glass, nice eyebox.

    If you want a nice scope for your rifle get whatever it is that makes you happy, I put a Premier lite tactical on a Anschutz 1710, over kill, probably but it sure is fun to shoot.
     
    I too own both of the scopes you are asking about. I have zero stop on my NF which works better than the USO for that purpose because I need to wear reading glassed to see the 0 on my EREK. However, my USO scopes are my favorite scopes and I prefer the EREK turret over all others. I have a USO 3.8-22 set on a factory Rem 700 LRT 300 WM that will shoot 190gr Bergers through the same hole consistently - part gun, part glass, part load - it all works together.

    Lastly, I just must comment on the "factory rifle" issue; Some of the best "competition" shooters in the world use factory Savage rifles.
     
    USO. Its a custom scope experience and their customer service is great. Ive used NF extensively in the military and though they are good, the USO I bought myself as a coming home gift is beautiful. It tracks well, its tough as nails, and glass clarity is much better than my NF F1... and almost as good as my Schmidt & Bender. Im confident you could probably drive a truck over my USO repeatedly and it would be good to go. Ive had my NF fog up on the inside in extensive rainy conditions in the military. The only problem I have with USO is I prefer a Horus Reticle and its an extra $500 for it. Ouch.
     
    ultrarunner7 said:
    USO. Its a custom scope experience and their customer service is great. Ive used NF extensively in the military and though they are good, the USO I bought myself as a coming home gift is beautiful. It tracks well, its tough as nails, and glass clarity is much better than my NF F1... and almost as good as my Schmidt & Bender. Im confident you could probably drive a truck over my USO repeatedly and it would be good to go. Ive had my NF fog up on the inside in extensive rainy conditions in the military. The only problem I have with USO is I prefer a Horus Reticle and its an extra $500 for it. Ouch.
    Click to expand...

    Horus is 500 more in any scope. It's their biggest downfall.

    Best part about USO, 100% made in USA, even the glass. Given the choice, I'd take a USO over almost anything.


    Posted via Tapatalk HD for iPad
     
    whitebread said:
    Most of my time in the fall is spent with a S&B Zenith or Zeiss Victory Diavari and the glass in those scopes is second to none and I have come to expect the same from my tactical scopes. I curently own three USO Scopes (SR-8S, MR-10, and LR-17) and have nothing but praise for them. The clarity, definition, and colors are exceptional, on par with my Zeiss, and only a gnats ass behind the S&B. The EREK knobs are by far the best exposed turret design I have used - positive clicks, easy to read, easy to count revs, and very easy to adjust/setup. I use the reticle for wind so I also prefer the covered windage knobs that USO uses. The parallax knobs are accurate to the distance engraved on them and the eyepiece is not too large to have problems with bolt or rail clearance. The mil-GAP reticle is also an extremely clean and useful reticle, it is my first choice over any of the other tactical reticles. Exceptional scopes for the money.

    I also have had the 2.5-10x32 NXS Compact Nightforce and my complaint was always the glass quality - the definition was never as sharp as I expected for a scope of that price. I will probably get flamed for this, but to my eyes it was no better than a Leupold Mark 4 (not that this is bad…just not the absolute best).
    Click to expand...
    yes, nightforce glass is ok at best. USO will out perform a nightforce any day of he week. USO IS the way to go.
     
    Has USO updated their glass or something? The only reason I never picked one up was because I like uber quality glass.
     
    Dead Nutz said:
    yes, nightforce glass is ok at best. USO will out perform a nightforce any day of he week. USO IS the way to go.
    Click to expand...



    Horse shit. USO is hanging on, cut most of their product line, had some real issues w Q/C in the last few years.

    Read Big Jim Fish's review of the 1-8X.

    The MR-10x is what, 14' long? A 2.5 lb. 2-10X? It's one of the largest 1-10X scopes out there, the turret/parallax housing in very large. Optics are o.k., nothing special.

    The one 3-17x I had was a good scope optically, but again very heavy, might be fine on a bolt rifle, too large for a .308 AR.


    Stupid long wait times for repairs, 1/2 up front, it has been my experience that USO could fuck up a cup of coffee.

    Good Luck.
     
    I've only been around a few NF scopes but the one thing that I thought was a little discerning was that when adjusting magnification, the entire ocular housing rotated. I thought this could be a little awkward when using flip covers so I went with USO. I've been very happy with the scope but as others have said, you can't go wrong either way you go.
     
    997/2man said:
    Horse shit. USO is hanging on, cut most of their product line, had some real issues w Q/C in the last few years.

    Read Big Jim Fish's review of the 1-8X.

    The MR-10x is what, 14' long? A 2.5 lb. 2-10X? It's one of the largest 1-10X scopes out there, the turret/parallax housing in very large. Optics are o.k., nothing special.

    The one 3-17x I had was a good scope optically, but again very heavy, might be fine on a bolt rifle, too large for a .308 AR.


    Stupid long wait times for repairs, 1/2 up front, it has been my experience that USO could fuck up a cup of coffee.

    Good Luck.
    Click to expand...
    the US Optics ST-10 is one of the finest scopes made. A top tier SCOPE all day. Night farce doesn't make a SCOPE that compete with it.
     
    I have a SN-3 and wouldn't hesitate to pick either. Been meaning to pick up a NF for a long time but i caught a deal on a mark 6 i couldn't resist. In my experience my USO SN-3 has been flawless, i really do love the scope, though it is a pig if weight is a factor. I know some haven't had the same experience.

    The pissing matches between opinions of people need to stop, or these type threads need to be automatically deleted.

    If you've used either optic, post your experience to give the OP some credible feedback and move on.
     
    Last edited:
    I posted previously about my experience with my NF scope, but didn't mention their customer service. Before I bought the scope I had many questions and called several times to discuss the scope I wanted and the reticle and other related issues. I never had a problem getting through although a few times I left a message, I was called back the same day.

    Some time after I bought the scope I thought I had an issue and called and talked to a person who was a little rude I thought. When I finished the call, I called back and I told the lady who answered the phone that this guy might be having a bad day, but his tone when talking with me didn't seem appropriate. I described what happened and said that I expected better especially if you want me as a repeat customer. She, without me asking, put me through to the President of the company. When he picked up the phone I explained the situation and he said this guy was having some personal issues but that it was no excuse for poor customer service and he apologized for him and said he would be talking to the guy. I know that I had talked to that tech before and he was very helpful and I did mention that to the company president.

    The thing is he didn't try to brush me off and he actually believed me. He offered to bring my scope in and go through it. I thought about it for a moment and it hit me that maybe it's my glasses causing the problem. I told him I wanted to have a friend check it before I do that. I thanked him and later discovered that the problem was me. I have progressive lenses and that was my issue. I had a younger friend of mine check it. He doesn't wear glasses and has good eyes and he said he didn't see the issue I described. I had to learn to get my eyes and glasses lined up correctly and stay lined up to avoid the issue. I never had a problem since. I only wish I would have thought of my glasses before I called them. Oh well, after my discussion with the pres of the company, I sure felt they are serious about taking care of their customers.

    The bottom line is I never had an issue with the scope and no issues contacting CS. At least that is my experience so far. As I said before, there are a lot of good scopes out there, but if I was looking for one today it would be a NF.
     
    Last edited:
    Dead Nutz said:
    the US Optics ST-10 is one of the finest scopes made. A top tier SCOPE all day. Night farce doesn't make a SCOPE that compete with it.
    Click to expand...

    I agree, My ST 10 with ERGO and EREK is one of my favorite scopes and I have 7 Nightforce scopes.
     
    I have a USO SN-3 and an SN-4.

    Never failed me…track beautifully and are built like nothing else that I have run across. Would be hard pressed to consider anything else. Moreover, on the couple of occasions that I have used their CS; I found it to be second to none.

    BR
     
    I set up and assisted with a T&E of a NF NXS 3.5-15x50 for our SWAT snipers. Not an F1, but a standard NXS. To start, all interaction we had with NF was excellent. There were zero CS issues. They were enthusiastic to work with us, and they were the first ones to bring up a one month T&E, not me. Every email was answered promptly, and every phone call was honest. When we did our tests, the NF we got was outstanding. It was obviously superior to our Leupold Mark4 scopes across the board. However, the low light/no light operation of the Nightforce was what really stood out for us as being outstanding.

    I've looked at a lot of scopes because I'm in the same boat as you with a new rifle on the way. I have looked at numerous options extensively, to include USO.
    Here's what I will say with relation to USO- do your research before you buy. I'm not going to go into detail about what I personally found out and why I won't buy USO. I would simply encourage you to look into the issues that have been posted above and decide for yourself.
     
    Nightforce scopes are ok as long as you know going into the purchase that you are getting a mid tier SCOPE. But the specific question was nightforce vs USO. That is not a fair fight. USO will win that fight hands down all day.
     
    I've had a USO MR-10 and now have a NF 2.5-10x32. Physical package, the USO was awesome, but I could see tiny bullet holes better with the NF. Other than resolving bullet holes, the glass looked good on the USO (better than IOR).

    At the end of the day though, I couldn't sit comfortably behind the USO for more than a few minutes. Something about it didn't agree with my eyes. Now having the NF, I plan on continuing to purchase NF. They do everything I need them to do with a reliability track record that the USO cannot even dream of matching.
     
    I had a few USO's and every one but the MST-100 was nothing but problems. My SN3 went back to USO a total of four times and still wasn't right. The best day of my life was the day it was knocked off the tailgate of my truck onto concrete and wrecked the whole scope. Problem solved.

    As far as NF, they have been the most reliable and consistent scope I have used. I have a F1 on my match rifle and it has been beat up and has NEVER shifted zero. I can't say the same for even the S&B's I've had. It center punches every time I take it out and it tracks flawlessly. I had it fall 5' at the first stage of a match landing on the scope twice hard enough to dent the eyepiece. I got hits on that stage and took second at the match. I've got no doubt that most other scopes would have been tits up from that fall.

    I think my choice between the two is clear.
     
    you might start looking at the resell value of the scopes you are looking at. i dont keep up with us optic scopes because i dont think they truely compare to nightforce scopes in general, but i can tell you nf scopes have a great resell value. used nf dont stay for sale for long...
     
    I have a USO 1.5x6 and a 1x8. Also a nightforce 2.5x10. I like all three, ffp on the Uso are nice. The 1.5x6 is my favorite.
     
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