So I got the itch for a .223 carbine but I don't want an Ar type. So give me some ideas of what to look at.
- Thread starter redrum007
- Start date
Re: Non AR .223 help
Mini 14???
Mini 14???
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mini 14??? </div></div>
tough to get much accuracy, but great for throwing brass long distances
HK .223 is not much different than AR piston, but more $$
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mini 14??? </div></div>
tough to get much accuracy, but great for throwing brass long distances
HK .223 is not much different than AR piston, but more $$
Re: Non AR .223 help
Aug A3?
Aug A3?
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mini 14??? </div></div>
^^ With friends like that...!!! ^^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I got the itch for a .223 carbine but I don't want an Ar type. So give me some ideas of what to look at. </div></div>
I generally wouldn't pi$$ on a Mini-14 if it and its owner spontaneously combusted (for accuracy and other reasons), but they are nice little reliable carbines for plinking and if you don't really care about minute-of-barn level accuracy.
I own an Arsenal Inc SLR-106FR in 5.56x45/.223 that I absolutely love. It is very accurate with good ammo and it has never missed a beat in terms of reliability (you'd expect nothing less from an AK variant). The FR has a standard side-mounting bracket for mounting optics/mounts and there are numerous other options for mounting optics like the Ultimak, etc. Another platform to consider...
What do you want/need the carbine to do? Do you want/need the ability to mount optics easily? What's your budget?
Those are a couple good questions to get you thinking a little more on this project.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sebben</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mini 14??? </div></div>
^^ With friends like that...!!! ^^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I got the itch for a .223 carbine but I don't want an Ar type. So give me some ideas of what to look at. </div></div>
I generally wouldn't pi$$ on a Mini-14 if it and its owner spontaneously combusted (for accuracy and other reasons), but they are nice little reliable carbines for plinking and if you don't really care about minute-of-barn level accuracy.
I own an Arsenal Inc SLR-106FR in 5.56x45/.223 that I absolutely love. It is very accurate with good ammo and it has never missed a beat in terms of reliability (you'd expect nothing less from an AK variant). The FR has a standard side-mounting bracket for mounting optics/mounts and there are numerous other options for mounting optics like the Ultimak, etc. Another platform to consider...
What do you want/need the carbine to do? Do you want/need the ability to mount optics easily? What's your budget?
Those are a couple good questions to get you thinking a little more on this project.
Re: Non AR .223 help
Are you looking for a new or used rifle? if you could settle for a used one, my money would go for an Armalite AR-180b. Even if my hopes and dreams were crushed when Armalite told me they have no plans to re-release it.
Are you looking for a new or used rifle? if you could settle for a used one, my money would go for an Armalite AR-180b. Even if my hopes and dreams were crushed when Armalite told me they have no plans to re-release it.
Re: Non AR .223 help
I'd take new or used. No mini 14 tho, I like to hit what I aim at. Downside of the AR180B is they are hard to find not to mention parts in a few years. I'm not a big fan of the SIGs...How were the AK .223's?
I'd take new or used. No mini 14 tho, I like to hit what I aim at. Downside of the AR180B is they are hard to find not to mention parts in a few years. I'm not a big fan of the SIGs...How were the AK .223's?
Re: Non AR .223 help
FN SCAR 16,Robinson XCR, maybe?
FN SCAR 16,Robinson XCR, maybe?
Re: Non AR .223 help
I will have about $7-800 to spend on this so that rules out the scar and XCR.
I will have about $7-800 to spend on this so that rules out the scar and XCR.
Re: Non AR .223 help
My buddy has a saiga ak74 in .223 and he loves it. Its not my favorite and not the most accurate but it is fun to shoot and will shoot even the shittiest rounds. Parts are cheap and easy to find too. But Ive always been an AR guy so its never been high on my list for guns to have. just my .02 hope that helps at all.
My buddy has a saiga ak74 in .223 and he loves it. Its not my favorite and not the most accurate but it is fun to shoot and will shoot even the shittiest rounds. Parts are cheap and easy to find too. But Ive always been an AR guy so its never been high on my list for guns to have. just my .02 hope that helps at all.
Re: Non AR .223 help
+1 on the SLR-106FR. Folding stock, reliable, accurate, mags are as cheap as a mini-14, and it's easier to mount an optic with ultimak, US Palm or MI. Fits your price range perfect. I can't see why anyone would spend $600 to $700 on a mini-14 when they can get the Arsenal. If you don't need a folder stock, go for the Arsenal Saiga and save even more $.
+1 on the SLR-106FR. Folding stock, reliable, accurate, mags are as cheap as a mini-14, and it's easier to mount an optic with ultimak, US Palm or MI. Fits your price range perfect. I can't see why anyone would spend $600 to $700 on a mini-14 when they can get the Arsenal. If you don't need a folder stock, go for the Arsenal Saiga and save even more $.
G
Guest
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Re: Non AR .223 help
How bout an HK 93? I like mine more than my AR's to be honest.
How bout an HK 93? I like mine more than my AR's to be honest.
Re: Non AR .223 help
The HK's are nice but are out of my price range, not to mention heavy. I like the AK reliability, but would most likely get one in 7.62. If I decide to go that route whats good as well.
The HK's are nice but are out of my price range, not to mention heavy. I like the AK reliability, but would most likely get one in 7.62. If I decide to go that route whats good as well.
Re: Non AR .223 help
Don't know the last time anyone dogging a mini-14 has shot one, but my ranch rifle has no problem holding 2 moa. Sure its no tack driver, but for a $550 223 carbine that is a proven reliable platform, it gets the job done. The only mod I've done to improve the accuracy was add a barrel strut, that also doubles as
a light mount. Just sayin for a
reliable carbine capable of hits
out to 300, and not an AR, it is a viable option. Depending on your needs.
Let the floggings begin.
Eric
Don't know the last time anyone dogging a mini-14 has shot one, but my ranch rifle has no problem holding 2 moa. Sure its no tack driver, but for a $550 223 carbine that is a proven reliable platform, it gets the job done. The only mod I've done to improve the accuracy was add a barrel strut, that also doubles as
a light mount. Just sayin for a
reliable carbine capable of hits
out to 300, and not an AR, it is a viable option. Depending on your needs.
Let the floggings begin.
Eric
Re: Non AR .223 help
get a Galil then form 1 it and make it a micro
get a Galil then form 1 it and make it a micro
Re: Non AR .223 help
Has anybody here have any experience with the Sig 556?
Has anybody here have any experience with the Sig 556?
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EngineeringTheShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody here have any experience with the Sig 556? </div></div>
Yes,
I have a Classic tricked out with a Troy Rail, folding M4 stock and Aimpoint T1.
Runs perfect, but is not as accurate as most AR's. 2-3 MOA, battle rifle accuracy.
Great rifle, but if you want a tack driver look elsewhere.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EngineeringTheShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody here have any experience with the Sig 556? </div></div>
Yes,
I have a Classic tricked out with a Troy Rail, folding M4 stock and Aimpoint T1.
Runs perfect, but is not as accurate as most AR's. 2-3 MOA, battle rifle accuracy.
Great rifle, but if you want a tack driver look elsewhere.
Re: Non AR .223 help
In no way am I trying to hijack the thread, but I have heard stories of the top rail of the 556 being held on with hex screws that eventually loosen. I have also heard that the stock attachments are rather flimsy, And a while back on the sig forum there was a discussion about a burr in the upper receiver causing damage to the carrier. Have you had this experience?
In no way am I trying to hijack the thread, but I have heard stories of the top rail of the 556 being held on with hex screws that eventually loosen. I have also heard that the stock attachments are rather flimsy, And a while back on the sig forum there was a discussion about a burr in the upper receiver causing damage to the carrier. Have you had this experience?
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EngineeringTheShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In no way am I trying to hijack the thread, but I have heard stories of the top rail of the 556 being held on with hex screws that eventually loosen. I have also heard that the stock attachments are rather flimsy, And a while back on the sig forum there was a discussion about a burr in the upper receiver causing damage to the carrier. Have you had this experience? </div></div>
No burr problem, but I did have one of the hex screw/pem nuts holding the top rail on pull out. I over torqued it. I paid SIG to fix it.
Thanks for keeping me honest, LOL.
The American version (556) is not as well built as the Swiss versions (55X), and do require some ($) aftermarket mods to fix the deficiencies.
Since the Troy rail was added it is totally solid, top rail and hand guard.
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-sig-556-rifle-length
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EngineeringTheShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In no way am I trying to hijack the thread, but I have heard stories of the top rail of the 556 being held on with hex screws that eventually loosen. I have also heard that the stock attachments are rather flimsy, And a while back on the sig forum there was a discussion about a burr in the upper receiver causing damage to the carrier. Have you had this experience? </div></div>
No burr problem, but I did have one of the hex screw/pem nuts holding the top rail on pull out. I over torqued it. I paid SIG to fix it.
Thanks for keeping me honest, LOL.
The American version (556) is not as well built as the Swiss versions (55X), and do require some ($) aftermarket mods to fix the deficiencies.
Since the Troy rail was added it is totally solid, top rail and hand guard.
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-sig-556-rifle-length
Re: Non AR .223 help
AUG gets a +1 from me. But it's the only automatic i've ever trained on
Although the price is restrictive, remember; Buy once, Cry once.
AUG gets a +1 from me. But it's the only automatic i've ever trained on
Although the price is restrictive, remember; Buy once, Cry once.
Re: Non AR .223 help
My I ask why you want Non AR .223 platform?
This is tricky. The only other 2 rifles that haven't been mentioned are the KEL-TEC SU16 and the HK SL8. (even though the SL8 is way out of the price range)
My I ask why you want Non AR .223 platform?
This is tricky. The only other 2 rifles that haven't been mentioned are the KEL-TEC SU16 and the HK SL8. (even though the SL8 is way out of the price range)
Re: Non AR .223 help
"My I ask why you want Non AR .223 platform?"
I have had 3 AR's in the past, all from decent manufactures, and none of them ran well for me. I can say the ergonomics are great, but the reliability is not. This is my personal experience with them. Yes, I know there are people with better functioning AR's out there. I just have no desire to be kicked in the nut sack again with the 4th, there for the question.
"My I ask why you want Non AR .223 platform?"
I have had 3 AR's in the past, all from decent manufactures, and none of them ran well for me. I can say the ergonomics are great, but the reliability is not. This is my personal experience with them. Yes, I know there are people with better functioning AR's out there. I just have no desire to be kicked in the nut sack again with the 4th, there for the question.
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes, I know there are people with better functioning AR's out there. I just have no desire to be kicked in the nut sack again with the 4th, there for the question. </div></div>
Check out the scar 16.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes, I know there are people with better functioning AR's out there. I just have no desire to be kicked in the nut sack again with the 4th, there for the question. </div></div>
Check out the scar 16.
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1stIDvet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes, I know there are people with better functioning AR's out there. I just have no desire to be kicked in the nut sack again with the 4th, there for the question. </div></div>
Check out the scar 16. </div></div>
hes on a 700-800 dollar budget.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1stIDvet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Yes, I know there are people with better functioning AR's out there. I just have no desire to be kicked in the nut sack again with the 4th, there for the question. </div></div>
Check out the scar 16. </div></div>
hes on a 700-800 dollar budget.
Re: Non AR .223 help
You can get the rebuilt HK93 for about 500. J&G sales is the place to go.
You can get the rebuilt HK93 for about 500. J&G sales is the place to go.
Re: Non AR .223 help
"You can get the rebuilt HK93 for about 500. J&G sales is the place to go."
Any idea how they run? I always wonder about Century builds.
"You can get the rebuilt HK93 for about 500. J&G sales is the place to go."
Any idea how they run? I always wonder about Century builds.
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"My I ask why you want Non AR .223 platform?"
I have had 3 AR's in the past, all from decent manufactures, and none of them ran well for me. </div></div>
Then there is something wrong with you or your ammo.
I have a half dozen 223 ARs that have had maybe 4 FTFs total over 30,000+ rounds in the last 8 years, and they were magazine related (worn out springs). Everything from blaster Greek ammo to hand prepared match ammo.
No doubt there is some crap being peddled out there under some supposedly good brands, but the good stuff, and I don't me the esoteric branded ones, run great.
I've standardized on RRA uppers and lowers as well as mil-spec high quality parts from White Oak Armament. Complete RRA built rifles too.
Look in their corner if you want a functional AR at a decent price.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"My I ask why you want Non AR .223 platform?"
I have had 3 AR's in the past, all from decent manufactures, and none of them ran well for me. </div></div>
Then there is something wrong with you or your ammo.
I have a half dozen 223 ARs that have had maybe 4 FTFs total over 30,000+ rounds in the last 8 years, and they were magazine related (worn out springs). Everything from blaster Greek ammo to hand prepared match ammo.
No doubt there is some crap being peddled out there under some supposedly good brands, but the good stuff, and I don't me the esoteric branded ones, run great.
I've standardized on RRA uppers and lowers as well as mil-spec high quality parts from White Oak Armament. Complete RRA built rifles too.
Look in their corner if you want a functional AR at a decent price.
Re: Non AR .223 help
Well I know it wasn't the ammo, I was using m855, and federal tac. I just think I have a unique ability to make any AR run bad. Guessing even yours...
Well I know it wasn't the ammo, I was using m855, and federal tac. I just think I have a unique ability to make any AR run bad. Guessing even yours...
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"You can get the rebuilt HK93 for about 500. J&G sales is the place to go."
Any idea how they run? I always wonder about Century builds. </div></div>
I have heard horror stories about their rifles. The ones I have seen looked solid. The one I have is a good rifle. I have a rebuilt G3. I think it falls into the category of you only hear about the bad rifles they put out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"You can get the rebuilt HK93 for about 500. J&G sales is the place to go."
Any idea how they run? I always wonder about Century builds. </div></div>
I have heard horror stories about their rifles. The ones I have seen looked solid. The one I have is a good rifle. I have a rebuilt G3. I think it falls into the category of you only hear about the bad rifles they put out.
Re: Non AR .223 help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I know it wasn't the ammo, I was using m855, and federal tac. I just think I have a unique ability to make any AR run bad. Guessing even yours... </div></div>
Doubtful. Clubs I am associated with buy multiples of some supposed good brands of ARs for the junior and clinic programs. Very high incidence of failures/malfunctions. I was at a match 3 weeks ago where 2 brand new famous maker brand rifles would not lock back on an empty mag, a real problem for sling and coat shooters. With another club, we had SEVEN supposed top maker 2 stage triggers go bad and took 7 lowers with us back to Camp Perry to have the maker work on them.
I did have the disconnector spur break off an RRA NM 2 stage trigger at around 13,000 cycles. I sent it to them and they replaced it. Total time there, fixing, and back was 7 days. The fact that I used it a lot with a 22LR upper could have contributed to the premature failure.
I got my first AR in 12/1996. It was from a famous long time name maker. It would not consistently lock the bolt back on an empty mag. Fast forward 15 years to this fall - same famous maker, 2 rifles that the bolt would not lock back on.
Give an RRA build or complete rifle a try before you totally give up on the AR. You might be surprised. Also, don't be shy about mag selection. Used USGI mags can be a problem as the feed lips get worn and bent. Magpul mags seem to be a go-to mag for no mag related malfunctions. The fallback position for true GI spec, well made, reasonably priced 20 and 30 round new alu mags is NHMTG. Guess what brand RRA ships with their rifles...
Another 'hider and I just put another AR together last week. It used an RRA upper and lower (purchased used BTW), an RRA 2 stage trigger, BCG and buffer supplied by WOA, barrel and gas tube from WOA. We spent more time dicking around with the Troy TRX HG than we did building the rest of the rifle. After building, I gave it the same cleaning and lube routine I do my NM ARs.
First day at the range with it we ran M855 Ball and gun show bulk of unknown mfr through it to get the optics centered up, then Mk 262 Mod 0 clone through it made using my "blaster brass" - match brass fired 6 times, pickup brass, etc.
From round #1, the rifle has not had 1 malfunction.
Don't write off the AR just yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I know it wasn't the ammo, I was using m855, and federal tac. I just think I have a unique ability to make any AR run bad. Guessing even yours... </div></div>
Doubtful. Clubs I am associated with buy multiples of some supposed good brands of ARs for the junior and clinic programs. Very high incidence of failures/malfunctions. I was at a match 3 weeks ago where 2 brand new famous maker brand rifles would not lock back on an empty mag, a real problem for sling and coat shooters. With another club, we had SEVEN supposed top maker 2 stage triggers go bad and took 7 lowers with us back to Camp Perry to have the maker work on them.
I did have the disconnector spur break off an RRA NM 2 stage trigger at around 13,000 cycles. I sent it to them and they replaced it. Total time there, fixing, and back was 7 days. The fact that I used it a lot with a 22LR upper could have contributed to the premature failure.
I got my first AR in 12/1996. It was from a famous long time name maker. It would not consistently lock the bolt back on an empty mag. Fast forward 15 years to this fall - same famous maker, 2 rifles that the bolt would not lock back on.
Give an RRA build or complete rifle a try before you totally give up on the AR. You might be surprised. Also, don't be shy about mag selection. Used USGI mags can be a problem as the feed lips get worn and bent. Magpul mags seem to be a go-to mag for no mag related malfunctions. The fallback position for true GI spec, well made, reasonably priced 20 and 30 round new alu mags is NHMTG. Guess what brand RRA ships with their rifles...
Another 'hider and I just put another AR together last week. It used an RRA upper and lower (purchased used BTW), an RRA 2 stage trigger, BCG and buffer supplied by WOA, barrel and gas tube from WOA. We spent more time dicking around with the Troy TRX HG than we did building the rest of the rifle. After building, I gave it the same cleaning and lube routine I do my NM ARs.
First day at the range with it we ran M855 Ball and gun show bulk of unknown mfr through it to get the optics centered up, then Mk 262 Mod 0 clone through it made using my "blaster brass" - match brass fired 6 times, pickup brass, etc.
From round #1, the rifle has not had 1 malfunction.
Don't write off the AR just yet.
Re: Non AR .223 help
Seek out a Daewoo. Great rifles. Adjustable gas piston driven (great for suppressor use), uses AR magazines, Short recoil system (foldable stocks), and not everyone has it.
Lots of versions out there. We had a DR200 custom with a 16" barrel. One of the worst mistakes we've made was selling it.
And the best part? You can find them in your price range.
Seek out a Daewoo. Great rifles. Adjustable gas piston driven (great for suppressor use), uses AR magazines, Short recoil system (foldable stocks), and not everyone has it.
Lots of versions out there. We had a DR200 custom with a 16" barrel. One of the worst mistakes we've made was selling it.
And the best part? You can find them in your price range.
Re: Non AR .223 help
Yep no bolt action. Only bad thing on the Daewoo is parts availability. A buddy of mine had one a few years back and the charging handle broke on it. He went through hell and high water to get it fixed. Had to have it made. I hope things are better now. The AK's are looking better and better...
Yep no bolt action. Only bad thing on the Daewoo is parts availability. A buddy of mine had one a few years back and the charging handle broke on it. He went through hell and high water to get it fixed. Had to have it made. I hope things are better now. The AK's are looking better and better...
Re: Non AR .223 help
Stay away from the century. they are VERY hit or miss, and my experience has not been good.
Although I admit I have not tried their HK flavor rifle.
Dont really believe that you had so much bad luck with AR's unless you just buy Vulcans or something.
Ar's are the cheapest, easiest and to get a service type accurate semi. they have mad 10's of millions of them and worked out the bugs
Minis are not the answer if accuracy or cheap mags are needed
The DAEWOO is a good choice, but really if you want practicality stick with what every armorer can fix in his sleep with readily available parts.
Aks are fine, but not the same level of accuracy, and dont believe the hype that they are so much more reliable, esp with the cheaper garbage that may or may not be correctly assembled
Good luck
Stay away from the century. they are VERY hit or miss, and my experience has not been good.
Although I admit I have not tried their HK flavor rifle.
Dont really believe that you had so much bad luck with AR's unless you just buy Vulcans or something.
Ar's are the cheapest, easiest and to get a service type accurate semi. they have mad 10's of millions of them and worked out the bugs
Minis are not the answer if accuracy or cheap mags are needed
The DAEWOO is a good choice, but really if you want practicality stick with what every armorer can fix in his sleep with readily available parts.
Aks are fine, but not the same level of accuracy, and dont believe the hype that they are so much more reliable, esp with the cheaper garbage that may or may not be correctly assembled
Good luck
Re: Non AR .223 help
Daewoorifleparts.com
An Arizona based company.
Next problem?
Daewoorifleparts.com
An Arizona based company.
Next problem?
Re: Non AR .223 help
Thank you all for the info and ideas you have provided. Its given me lots to consider.
Thank you all for the info and ideas you have provided. Its given me lots to consider.
Re: Non AR .223 help
I am really curious as to why the aresenal SLR-106fr hasn't been considered seriously.
I didn't want to get into the AR for reasons of reliability, and money. However I wanted to stay with 5.56x45mm to stay compatible with my friends.
I opted for the Arsenal SLR-106fr, which at the time I got for $650. Mags are expensive, but you only buy them once and they are made very well. The rifle is light and handy, built well, has the recoil of a .22lr and is incredibly reliable. The was a reliability issue witht he first batch several years ago, but that has been fixed.
I haven't tested it for accuracy yet, but I expect it to be better than a standard 7.62 or 5.45 AK.
The only negative thing I have to say is the the arsenal finish is a crappy paint. It looks good, but wouldn't hold up in the field.
Overall I love the rifle and everything about it, I wouldn't rule it out.
I am really curious as to why the aresenal SLR-106fr hasn't been considered seriously.
I didn't want to get into the AR for reasons of reliability, and money. However I wanted to stay with 5.56x45mm to stay compatible with my friends.
I opted for the Arsenal SLR-106fr, which at the time I got for $650. Mags are expensive, but you only buy them once and they are made very well. The rifle is light and handy, built well, has the recoil of a .22lr and is incredibly reliable. The was a reliability issue witht he first batch several years ago, but that has been fixed.
I haven't tested it for accuracy yet, but I expect it to be better than a standard 7.62 or 5.45 AK.
The only negative thing I have to say is the the arsenal finish is a crappy paint. It looks good, but wouldn't hold up in the field.
Overall I love the rifle and everything about it, I wouldn't rule it out.
Re: Non AR .223 help
How about a pump that uses AR mags?
Remington 7615 comes in several flavors and should be available in your price range:
http://world.guns.ru/civil/usa/remington-7615-e.html
How about a pump that uses AR mags?
Remington 7615 comes in several flavors and should be available in your price range:
http://world.guns.ru/civil/usa/remington-7615-e.html
Re: Non AR .223 help
Reality: Mini 14's are not as accurate as AR15's.
The kind of shooting most engage in does not require Service rifle or surgical level accuracy. The Ruger will impact with "moc" (minute of coyote) at 100 yards. Mags aren't cheap but they're sturdier than AR mags. Ruger's action is flawlessly reliable absent the AR's heat, carbon and residue clogging the bcg and they run much cleaner than AR's. Ruger's accuracy is vastly improved by bedding the action. Send the trigger group to Clark Custom or a good smith for work if you hate it.
I shoot both. Neither jam on me. Accessories for AR's are out the ass but so too is the Ruger's simplicity and reliability. If we spend as much on Mini's as we do on Ar's the Mini would shoot as well, cleaner. AR's are more popular because they look cooler and having something cool looking makes us feel cooler.
And after all, that's what its all about isn't it?
Reality: Mini 14's are not as accurate as AR15's.
The kind of shooting most engage in does not require Service rifle or surgical level accuracy. The Ruger will impact with "moc" (minute of coyote) at 100 yards. Mags aren't cheap but they're sturdier than AR mags. Ruger's action is flawlessly reliable absent the AR's heat, carbon and residue clogging the bcg and they run much cleaner than AR's. Ruger's accuracy is vastly improved by bedding the action. Send the trigger group to Clark Custom or a good smith for work if you hate it.
I shoot both. Neither jam on me. Accessories for AR's are out the ass but so too is the Ruger's simplicity and reliability. If we spend as much on Mini's as we do on Ar's the Mini would shoot as well, cleaner. AR's are more popular because they look cooler and having something cool looking makes us feel cooler.
And after all, that's what its all about isn't it?
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