North Carolina Falls

[Gunfighter14e2]

For a group of guys that act like hard asses this sure is a sewing circle.

You don't know how wrong you are,...
Some People here poke an prod to see who they can trust an depend on. Others what to know what another's life mind set is, to know which side of the fence they are on,...your posts say it all. The forums your don't partake in/of is a clue.

 

[RyanScott]

Oh you like me enough to stalk me?

 

[JMGlasgow]

Lincoln was a traitor and a tyrant and he deserved getting assassinated.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

What will they do when we start tearing down Obama’s statues? That day is coming sooner than you think.

#obamagate

Tell me where to find one?

Asking for a friend...

Sirhr

 

[Crang]

This wouldn’t be happening if you’d picked your own cotton.

North Carolina voted not to secede as tobacco didnt require slave labor as cotton did. It wasnt until Lincoln contacted the governor of NC and told them to round up men to invade their neighbor that NC voted again- but this time to join the Confederacy. Several in my family died fighting for NC and for them it didnt have a damn thing to do with slavery. Had everything to do with a runaway federal government.

 

[Crang]

I believe that it was Thomas Jefferson who said of the slavery question... "It's like having a wolf by the ears. You don't like it, but you don't dare let it go!"

There was a relatively peaceful status quo until the Westward expansion started to add new states. And disturb the balance of free- vs. slave-states in the Congress. The South was terrified that the North would soon outnumber them in the Senate (in particular) and that the Northern Senate would restrict their 'way of life.'

Came to a head with the admission of Kansas and Missouri... with those states were allowed to choose whether they would be free or slave.

The term "Bleeding Kansas" described the border bloodshed that went on for years...

1783 -- the Treaty of Paris and Independence... until 1789,,, to ratify a Constitution. Including a lot of discussion about slavery!

Right on Mtn! None of this was easy!

Cheers,

SIrhr

Jeffersons deleted passage from the Declaration of Independence is a scathing indictment of slavery. We almost included slavery as a reason to break from England but would have been too big a fight at the time with the deck stacked against us. His deleted passage below:

He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. This piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian King of Great Britain. Determined to keep open a market where Men should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or restrain this execrable commerce. And that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people on whom he has obtruded them: thus paying off former crimes committed again the Liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

It wouldn't have lasted much longer. It definitely wasn't a reason for 250,000 plus men to die.
Besides. The Great Society has enslaved more people for a longer period. When are we going to end that. Sure the bonds are light but it's enslavement none the less.

This is essentially correct... Even the Southern States and their denizens recognized that slavery had a limited future... but they were talking about a 50 - 100 year timeframe in order to end it and educate/integrate (or return to Africa) slave populations.

Noone figured it would go on forever.

And there is a very good argument to be made that the failed Reconstruction, followed by Plessy v. Ferguson, followed by some really nasty segregation lasting into the 1970's (in Boston, for example) was far worse than some of the potentials.

This, however, is the downside of 'what-if' historical ponderings. Because in a 'what if' world, anything is possible.

Fact is, we had a Civil War. It was nasty. There were several causes. And there were several results. And noone can argue all were good. Emancipation resulted in another 100 years of segregation and oppression. States Rights elimination created a Monster in DC.

But we can't change the past... we can only shape the future. And a realistic understanding of the past is necessary to be able to help create a better future. If you can't be honest about the past... you are screwed as far as helping shape a brighter future.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

There’s no economic reason that slavery would have ended, except for economic pressure by trading partners.
In any case the south is the greatest recipient of the welfare state.

Yeah, I am sure all of the inventions in the farm industry would never have happened if slavery had continued.
Since you are the "know it all". Please inform us of the number of slave owners. Was it 50% of the population owning slaves? 40, 30, 20, 10% or maybe less? Go ahead and let us know that 250,000 people died for something that less than 5% of the population actually participated in.

And throwing in the south is the recipient of the welfare state has nothing to do with the topic. Don't take an exit. Stay on topic.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Lincoln was a traitor and a tyrant and he deserved getting assassinated.

Well, on that we disagree.

He was no second coming. But as for your three assertions. Well, no.

Sirhr

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Fact is, we had a Civil War. It was nasty. There were several causes. And there were several results. And noone can argue all were good. Emancipation resulted in another 100 years of segregation and oppression. States Rights elimination created a Monster in DC.

Sirhr

Wow. There's not enough internet to discuss all of your post. I wouldn't mind having a good cigar, bourbon and a few hours of discussion though.

I just cut down to the brass tack. There were several reasons and when someone is a staunch "It was SLAVERY!!!!" Well....... Yeah the public education system is a success.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Wow. There's not enough internet to discuss all of your post. I wouldn't mind having a good cigar, bourbon and a few hours of discussion though.

I just cut down to the brass tack. There were several reasons and when someone is a staunch "It was SLAVERY!!!!" Well....... Yeah the public education system is a success.

Any time, buddy!

I like Montecristo No.2 Torpedo's and port.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[RyanScott]

Yeah, I am sure all of the inventions in the farm industry would never have happened if slavery had continued.
Since you are the "know it all". Please inform us of the number of slave owners. Was it 50% of the population owning slaves? 40, 30, 20, 10% or maybe less? Go ahead and let us know that 250,000 people died for something that less than 5% of the population actually participated in.

And throwing in the south is the recipient of the welfare state has nothing to do with the topic. Don't take an exit. Stay on topic.

25% of households owned slaves. 40% of people could vote. More than half of voters were slave owners.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Oh you like me enough to stalk me?

Laughing,...you trying to up your stature by that,...ain't going to happen. You were pegged on here over 5 years ago by another member who makes it a hobby to dig a little,...Laughing

 

[RyanScott]

Stature? Stalking? You people take some random message board entirely too seriously. I don’t mind if we don’t hold hands at recess, I’m a grown man. I vote republican too so y’all aren’t very good at pegging even if you like to try it.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Yeah, I am sure all of the inventions in the farm industry would never have happened if slavery had continued.
Since you are the "know it all". Please inform us of the number of slave owners. Was it 50% of the population owning slaves? 40, 30, 20, 10% or maybe less? Go ahead and let us know that 250,000 people died for something that less than 5% of the population actually participated in.

And throwing in the south is the recipient of the welfare state has nothing to do with the topic. Don't take an exit. Stay on topic.

DY... there is a good argument to be made that the invention of the Cotton Gin around 1795 (Not sure the exact date) was one of the precipitating factors of the Civil War.

Prior to that, Slavery was all but dead in the South. Because the process of ginning or 'carding' cotton was totally uneconomical. The labor, even slave labor, required to process a pound of cotton was just simply not an economic process.

With the invention of the cotton gin (short for 'engine'), cotton could be taken from picked state to processed bales in a VERY economical way, with slave labor handing the planting, tending and picking and the 'gin' processing out the seeds and making the boll into a salable fiber. Without the invention of this agricultural miracle, there would have been no real incentive for mass-slavery. It was, indeed, King Cotton that was behind the slave culture. King Cotton fed the mills of New England and "Olde England'. And was the economic anchor of many states.

The 'other' slave activities were background noise.

The 19th century inventions, especially the McCormick Reaper and the John Deere plow helped open the west. But most of those states were non-slave... esp. the grain belts of Kansas and Nebraska. Which helped create a massive agricultural surplus for the Union... and, again, helped the economic imbalance North to South.

But slavery was prolonged for 50 years + by Eli Whitney and his "Cotton Engine." The machines were, in part, responsible for the war.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. Highly Recommend this as a read: https://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Barons-Entrepreneurs-Visionaries/dp/0306825120

 

[Hoploman]

It is part of the communist playbook to tear down and destroy the symbols, history and heroes of a nation before and during the process of taking over. Identity has to be scrambled, so that it can be rearranged in their vision.

As strange as it may sound, this has little to do with North vs South, the Civil War, or the history of that war. That's long gone.

Today, the "South" is not a group of states, nor does it have a border...The South is a nation, a culture, an idea. It is a sum of people and a way of life. Although, the majority of people who constitute this nation can be largely associated with a geographical region. But it isn't so clear anymore, as there are hostile enclaves in these states. It is somewhat Balkan in style.

The removal of these statues has nothing to do with slavery or wars. And everything to do with undermining and destroying a culture and nation's identity.

As bizarre as it may seem, today most all rural Northerners in staunch "yankee" states are actually ideologically and politically Southerners.

What does a rural, Christian, gun-owning, freedom-loving, pro-American person in Illinois, Ohio, New York or Pennsylvania have anything in common with their state brethren in Chicago, New York City, or Philadelphia?

NOTHING.

(other than similar driver's license and plates lol)

 

[Bullfrog08]

Laughing,...you trying to up your stature by that,...ain't going to happen. You were pegged on here over 5 years ago by another member who makes it a hobby to dig a little,...Laughing

Nobody is "pegged" on a message board/forum. Only those that meet in real life know a persons true self, and even then you'll never know who they truely are. Think of the discourse you engage in daily here, who talks to people in real life the way some do here? You're old and wise enough to know this. He has an opinion....big deal......move on.

 

[Kamerad]

You should probably read more history instead of fantasy. The cornerstone of the confederacy was slavery and it is the reason for secession.

Take your own advice, and consider sources that aren’t parroting the prevailing attitude. Victors write history, and all that.

 

[RyanScott]

I went straight to primary sources. If you want the best explanation of the Civil War, try Lincoln’s Second Inaugural.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Lincoln was a traitor and a tyrant and he deserved getting assassinated.

Lincoln's assassination, was the absolute worst thing that could happen, at the worst possible time.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Nobody is "pegged" on a message board/forum. Only those that meet in real life know a persons true self, and even then you'll never know who they truely are. Think of the discourse you engage in daily here, who talks to people in real life the way some do here? You're old and wise enough to know this. He has an opinion....big deal......move on.

The ability's of many members, an closeness of some on this board are staggering,...if need be.

 

[Waco Kid]

But we can't change the past... we can only shape the future. And a realistic understanding of the past is necessary to be able to help create a better future. If you can't be honest about the past... you are screwed as far as helping shape a brighter future.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Well said! History lessons are meant to show what went right or wrong with the past so mistakes aren't repeated! But, now a days people just want it all watered down and sugar coated.

This has been going on in NC for several years tho. Unfortunately it's like so many things now, 99% of people are ok with it but somehow the 1% can be offended and have it changed! Sad, really sad!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

We were a nation of minorities. Now we're a nation with no majorities. That's a deliberate and achieved goal. Somebody's goal. Yours? Mine?

It's easy to say "God help us".

Let that other guy do the heavy lifting, right?

Well, God helps those who help themselves.

Greg