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You're just not hearing us on this...
You're listening, but you're just not hearing anything.
I think what is trying to be said here is you need to find the center of your accuracy node. What this means is if you are on the outer fringes of a accuracy node you could easily go in and out of accuracy due to charge weight, powder sensitivity, temperature, etc; it's better to find the center of the accuracy node to give you leeway and have more load tolerance.
Example: You shoot four groups of three, each group is a different charge weight using 0.2 grain increments and is loaded to a COL of 2.800"
1st group is 44.0grs and shoots 0.950"
2nd group is 44.2grs and shoots 0.750"
3rd group is 44.4grs and shoots 0.500"
4th group is 44.6grs and shoots 1.250"
You then load up a 5th group at 44.5grs and it shoots 0.85". Your better off loading 44.2grs and start adjusting COL. This is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Bo
Example: You shoot four groups of three, each group is a different charge weight using 0.2 grain increments and is loaded to a COL of 2.800"
1st group is 44.0grs and shoots 0.950"
2nd group is 44.2grs and shoots 0.750"
3rd group is 44.4grs and shoots 0.500"
4th group is 44.6grs and shoots 1.250"
You then load up a 5th group at 44.5grs and it shoots 0.85". Your better off loading 44.2grs and start adjusting COL. This is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Bo
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Agreed - load tolerance is important because it allows for the most variation without affecting accuracy. Sometimes the load that shoots the smallest groups isn't the most consistent across a range of environmental conditions or reloading components/process variables. If you think of accuracy nodes as vibrations travelling down the barrel, the peaks and troughs of those vibrations (ie sine waves) are the points where the amplitude delta of the deformation (ie amount of change over time) is least. This is the ideal zone for the bullet to leave the barrel because any minor time offset, forward or backward, has very little difference whereas in other portions of the wave, a difference of milliseconds means the barrel has physically moved more.
Hmm, maybe I should do a little animation to visualize this better?
Hmm, maybe I should do a little animation to visualize this better?
You're listening, but you're just not hearing anything.
I hear you fine, just being cheerful and mannerly like my mama always taught.
We did proper ladder testing and re-testing to obtain statistical significance. Suffice it to say, we are immensely happy with the proven precision and accuracy of our new Sin City Precision 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. Worth every penny and then some!
I love this barrel (and the kids love it too). Ty does superior work and is a great shooter and fine man!... I know I already said that, but heartfelt compliments are always worth saying again
Finally got out to zero my Premier 5-25x56. Shot 1 at 50 to get on paper adjusted and moved back to 100. Fired 1, dialed elevation & wind and shot a nice 3 shot group inside of a nickel with factory Hornady Superformance 180 GR InterBonds. I was content at that point because I couldn't feel my hands with the -13°F crosswind so I gave up for the day. That was when I clued in that the wind had been blowing this super fine sand into my receiver and had deposited a thin coat to my entire rifle. I have never shot in sandy conditions before so I'm looking for tips on how to clean this crap! Of course I'm doing the obligatory google searches but I'm sure some of you have to deal with this all the time and can give some DTA specific tips. Thanks!
Icky. DTA's don't do well with blowing sand, as a result of that huge gash in the side of the rifle where the bolt slides. It makes a nice trough to catch dirt.
Just strip the rifle down, take the skins off, and hose it out with gun scrubber until all particles are gone.
Just strip the rifle down, take the skins off, and hose it out with gun scrubber until all particles are gone.
That's a disappointment for me, I kinda want one, but I live in the sand hills of Nebraska. Where's there's sand and wind. And lots of both.
Let me be clear here. You need a PILE of sand in there to cause issues with the rifle's operation.
I'm talking about a maintenance issue. Meaning it's not a condition that you want to LEAVE in there. Just like any rifle... sand in there is not good. So when it happens, get it cleaned out, and re-lube all your pertinent parts.
However, it would be good if the A1 had incorporated the dust cover which was present on the PSR rifle which I fondled at SHOT a couple years ago.
I'm talking about a maintenance issue. Meaning it's not a condition that you want to LEAVE in there. Just like any rifle... sand in there is not good. So when it happens, get it cleaned out, and re-lube all your pertinent parts.
However, it would be good if the A1 had incorporated the dust cover which was present on the PSR rifle which I fondled at SHOT a couple years ago.
Finally clean...what a pain in the ass! I don't mind cleaning a firearm but this was pretty tedious. It reminded me of the dust that all of my brother's gear was covered in when he returned from Afghanistan. It was inside the bolt sleeve too so that also had to be disassembled and cleaned. I'll never shoot in a 3 o'clock wind again if I'm in a dusty environment.
so whats anyone thoughts on the bore snakes?? when i ordered my srs a1, i also grabbed the cleaning kit, figured they would know whats best for ther machine, but like to know what everyone uses for people that already own thers in hand? im so looking forward to cleaning n wensday nights at the range on tv.
So I just added to my list of stupid things I have done. I have no idea how it happened but when I went to the range yesterday for my very first time shooting my SRS I somehow forgot to tighten the 4 torque bolts that hold the barrel in position. Before going out I had been practicing barrel swaps and showed a couple of friends and the only thing I can think of is that when I put the 308 barrel in I forgot to tighten it.....and I did not notice this until after about 100 rounds of 308 when I went to swap it for the 338. Which probably explains why I was not getting the accuracy that I had hoped for. The best I could manage with the 308 at 100m was about a 1 inch group while when I put in a properly torqued 338 barrel I was getting one hole groups no problem. Feel free to commence ridicule of my stupidity.....oh and here is a picture of my rifle back from the cerkote guy and all put back together.
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though oddly even with the groups being larger than I would expect the tightest groups where exactly where the optimal barrel time theory predicted they would within 0.1GRs or so. It seems with the barrel loose I should have just been all over the place, but while bigger groups than expected it still followed the pattern I was expecting. I tested three different powders and 4 different projected accuracy nodes and I had the same results accross all 4 tests. I did 5 loads with the center load being my OBT predicted load and going two loads on each side with 0.2gr seperation. and each one was 2.5 inch group, 1 inch group, 1 inch group,1 inch group, 2.5 inch group.
Don't be embarrassed. You shoot these rifles enough, and you're bound to do it at least once. Funny how they still shoot better with a loose barrel than many rifles do completely torqued down!
Oh I'm not overly embarrassed, I'm just a believer in admitting mistakes in hopes others can learn from them.
Also I ops tested using the magnetospeed on the side of the hand guard. it worked great most of the time. however every thirty shots or so it would loosen just enough to droop a hair. And that was enough to not get a reading. So I had to stop and tighten it every once in a while. Also I had a break on it, this appears to do nothing to the magnetospeed (other than loosen the straps a little) it did however put a small sideways moment on the recoil.
Hopefully the dta suppressor I ordered from orkan comes in soon and then doesn't take to long for the transfer and then I can just mount the magnetospeed on that.
Also I ops tested using the magnetospeed on the side of the hand guard. it worked great most of the time. however every thirty shots or so it would loosen just enough to droop a hair. And that was enough to not get a reading. So I had to stop and tighten it every once in a while. Also I had a break on it, this appears to do nothing to the magnetospeed (other than loosen the straps a little) it did however put a small sideways moment on the recoil.
Hopefully the dta suppressor I ordered from orkan comes in soon and then doesn't take to long for the transfer and then I can just mount the magnetospeed on that.
expect 12+ months for a form 4 transfer...
Yeah, I just heard from a couple customers whom called to check status on their forms, and ATF told them 15 months.
What complete and utter bullshit.
... and WHY is there not a push by a large gun rights organization to deregulate suppressors to that of a regular firearm? They are NOT firearms, and should NOT be regulated at all, but I'd settle for that.
What complete and utter bullshit.
... and WHY is there not a push by a large gun rights organization to deregulate suppressors to that of a regular firearm? They are NOT firearms, and should NOT be regulated at all, but I'd settle for that.
Just placed my order for my DTA rifle this weekend. I plan to use my Viper PST on it using an Aadland mount. I went with 300 WM. I have a couple of questions regarding accessories and ammo.
What factory loaded ammo have you guys had the best success with?
What soft cases have you found to work well besides the DTA case? Their soft case is really nice but, I have other rifles and trying to keep from having too many single use items.
What factory loaded ammo have you guys had the best success with?
What soft cases have you found to work well besides the DTA case? Their soft case is really nice but, I have other rifles and trying to keep from having too many single use items.
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Move to New Zealand.
Has anyone fired a HTI in.50 and a EDM Windrunner? How do they compare? I imagine the recoil and blast are a bit stiffer with the HTI. It may have been asked before but I haven't found it.
I have an EDM right now but and HTI would be nice and add some commonality with my Covert.
I have an EDM right now but and HTI would be nice and add some commonality with my Covert.
I rarely use bore snakes, but have found that you need to use one a caliber or 2 smaller than your bore and you're much less likely to get one stuck in your barrel, which is a nightmare !!!!!
Yesterday at the range, my son and I easily hit 6" steel diamond 8 of 10 shots at 550 yards with DTA SRS with 22" 308 barrel. 1st shot was high, then pretty much dead on. Too much fun to be legal!!!
AFLAC,
Great paint job on the rifle. Did you make your own stencil? I have made one for the multi-cam type pattern and have done a handful of rifles with it.
Brass selection for this rifle is my first consideration. I have had great success in .308 on other rifles using the Fed GMM brass that I had run through the rifle from the shelf and then reloaded. I recently bought some Lapua .308 brass and compared the two and there is really a difference between them. I also have found Win brass to be pretty good as well and quite durable. Stepping into the 300 Win Mag world is a new one for me. I reload using a Hornady LNL Single stage for the bolt guns I have. I have used Dillon dies on it with good consistency and better function than the Hornady Competition grade dies.
Have any of you found any absolute do's or dont's when reloading for this rifle? Are there any must haves I should put on the Christmas list?
Great paint job on the rifle. Did you make your own stencil? I have made one for the multi-cam type pattern and have done a handful of rifles with it.
Brass selection for this rifle is my first consideration. I have had great success in .308 on other rifles using the Fed GMM brass that I had run through the rifle from the shelf and then reloaded. I recently bought some Lapua .308 brass and compared the two and there is really a difference between them. I also have found Win brass to be pretty good as well and quite durable. Stepping into the 300 Win Mag world is a new one for me. I reload using a Hornady LNL Single stage for the bolt guns I have. I have used Dillon dies on it with good consistency and better function than the Hornady Competition grade dies.
Have any of you found any absolute do's or dont's when reloading for this rifle? Are there any must haves I should put on the Christmas list?
Krazyjohnny,
I've been using Remington brass and have 3-4 reloads on them with good results. I was actually checking for headspace separation last night and they all look OK, just a bit of stretching. I set my dies to bump the shoulder back .001 to .0015. 208 amax over 72gr RL-22 is what I've been shooting, though I've tested H1000 and have it currently so will be moving to it. I was able to connect on a 16" target @ 1760 yards in 3 rounds.
I've been using Remington brass and have 3-4 reloads on them with good results. I was actually checking for headspace separation last night and they all look OK, just a bit of stretching. I set my dies to bump the shoulder back .001 to .0015. 208 amax over 72gr RL-22 is what I've been shooting, though I've tested H1000 and have it currently so will be moving to it. I was able to connect on a 16" target @ 1760 yards in 3 rounds.
Actually I sent it to Metal EFX to get cerakoted they did a great job on it.
Anyone run a 300 or 338rum from a DTA?
Not yet....
Also I wanted to update everyone. I posted earlier about my displeased performance in terms of accuracy. At first I thought I wasn't developing good loads. Then I though it was the gun until I tried a friends scope with the same ammo if had loaded before and we were putting them through one ragged hole.
The mark 6 is going back to Leupold tomorrow.
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The mark 6 is going back to Leupold tomorrow.
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I like the Idea of 338RUM as I am already setup to load it. I can use a 300win bolt, 338L mags, and shoot 250gr SCENARS at 2900 ish.
? These are very easy to do. I can get you one if you want.
... they aught to be pretty good at repairing them by now.
generalzip,
I am going to assume you checked your parallax. Another phenomena that I have seen is that on some scopes rings or mounts that are side clamping (like LaRue) will mess up your parallax and that will have you jacking shots all over the place. Check that before you pitch it. Just another .02 from some other Joker.
I am going to assume you checked your parallax. Another phenomena that I have seen is that on some scopes rings or mounts that are side clamping (like LaRue) will mess up your parallax and that will have you jacking shots all over the place. Check that before you pitch it. Just another .02 from some other Joker.
Idea! Official DTA SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread
Good call man. That's exactly what's going on. The parallax would jump after 3-10 shots. But on top of that even with adjusting the parallax for each shot it would erratically throw rounds around 1-2 inches away from the last shot. Using my buddy's scope fixed all these problems so the issue is definitely the scope. I torqued the screws all to spec but apparently that wasn't enough. I'm hoping the next one doesn't do that.
The mouth is an adm so yes side clamping
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Good call man. That's exactly what's going on. The parallax would jump after 3-10 shots. But on top of that even with adjusting the parallax for each shot it would erratically throw rounds around 1-2 inches away from the last shot. Using my buddy's scope fixed all these problems so the issue is definitely the scope. I torqued the screws all to spec but apparently that wasn't enough. I'm hoping the next one doesn't do that.
The mouth is an adm so yes side clamping
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Try a set of top clamping (vertical screws) rings/mount and let us all know if that works if you have not sent the scope back. I just ordered an Aadland mount for my DTA that will be to me in the next year or so.
There are other issue I'm having with the scope like a moving reticle and very mushy elevation turret (full .1 mil of movement). Honestly this scope needs to be thrown in the trash or used for spare parts by leupold. If the next scope they send me isn't up to my expectations I'll be selling it and probably buy Premiers.
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Called dta this morning, Ryan was super helpful, is it really there responsibility to help me with a question not directly related to there product? Maybe not, but he went out of his way to. I love my gen 2 covert!! I have read in the past where guys can't get them to answer and all, everytime I call I get somone. Great service, by the way, the can I won in the photo contest came into dealer last month, can't wait to get it hopefully mid next year.
Looking at replacing NF 5.5x22x50 with a smidt and bender pm11 5x25x56. I use dta 20min base with reducers for NF and have 80 min of elevation with my 260 and 308 barrel. Cheek weld is no issue with my gen 2. Questions is, got any idea roughly what kinda of elevation I can expect with the bender? Got total of 64 moa I believe. Will it still be a good check weld as is the current NF.
I'm thinking of a moa moa because I plan on running the NF on back up rig and will be simpler when shooting with kids if both are the same. I'm looking at a used one, if funds allowed I'd probably consider a beast.
Please share some thoughts.... Thanks
Looking at replacing NF 5.5x22x50 with a smidt and bender pm11 5x25x56. I use dta 20min base with reducers for NF and have 80 min of elevation with my 260 and 308 barrel. Cheek weld is no issue with my gen 2. Questions is, got any idea roughly what kinda of elevation I can expect with the bender? Got total of 64 moa I believe. Will it still be a good check weld as is the current NF.
I'm thinking of a moa moa because I plan on running the NF on back up rig and will be simpler when shooting with kids if both are the same. I'm looking at a used one, if funds allowed I'd probably consider a beast.
Please share some thoughts.... Thanks
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Is anybody running custom 260 barrels on their SRS? My bolt should be to me tomorrow, so I'm getting ready to order one up within the next week, I'm thinking 20" but would like to get some input on performance and velocities people are getting. The primary function of the 20" would be hunting medium size game; whitetail, antelope, etc...
The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the goverment.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the goverment.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
From my understanding the beast is the same price as a s&b. I wanna see how they do before considering purchasing one. My eye right now is on premier for the easy change zero stop. That's pretty important for a gun like a dta where you change barrels so often.
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Get a PR and put it in a 40min cant Spuhr mount and never look back! These systems with a PR were made for each other
Sully
I saw a great deal on a gen 2 mil dot but would think the gen 2 xr is the way to go. What would you do if you could get a used mil dot for 2500 vs a used xr for say 3 grand?
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Gen2 XR PM Orkan he can fix you up
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I just took out my SAC 26" in .260. It was a dream to shoot, ran it with the suppressor, and it was just so little recoil I couldn't believe it. Everyone who tried it smiled and just couldn't believe it! Easy to hit steel at up to 500M (longest distance on this particular range).
I can highly recommend the Short Action Customs custom barrels for the DTA, Mark does a great job! Now if he would get the .223 barrels done !
Herofish,
Good to hear you're happy with you SAC barrel, I'd be surprised if you had been anything less than thrilled with one of SAC's barrels. I've already spoken with Mark about turning a barrel for me, I just need to decide what barrel length I'm going to go with so I can get my order placed with Mark. I'm really looking for input from other Hide members that may be running 22" or less barrel lengths, to see what feedback or recommendations they might be able to give.
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Good to hear you're happy with you SAC barrel, I'd be surprised if you had been anything less than thrilled with one of SAC's barrels. I've already spoken with Mark about turning a barrel for me, I just need to decide what barrel length I'm going to go with so I can get my order placed with Mark. I'm really looking for input from other Hide members that may be running 22" or less barrel lengths, to see what feedback or recommendations they might be able to give.
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3-15 or 5-25?
The XR in the 3-15 is unusable for holds at about 8x. Never looked though a 5-25.
My 28" 260Rem by SACs is GTG, I'm getting 2930fps average with a 140gr A-Max and H4350. The Bartlein barrels cleanup really fast and had very little copper fouling.
5-25. The way I shoot, anything under about 10x I wouldn't need to use holds for a .260 or .300 for shooting steel. I really like magnification when shooting. Just my personal preference
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