One very lucky LEO***Interesting update in post #39

[308pirate]

I was once an addict but I managed to pull away from it with the help from family. It pains me to admit to being an addict as I feel weak/disgusted with that fact. I haven't had an issue since and my addiction started with weight lifting and painkillers (wanted to workout through a back injury, young and dumb).

You are obviously entitled to your opinion but addiction is a disease. There is a negative consequence for quitting (physical/mental withdrawal, symptoms of being sick) coupled with receptor desensitization (needing to consume more drug to achieve positive stimulus) that binds individuals into a perpetual cycle until they OD.

We could also discuss the disconnect drugs cause between the VTA, PFC and amygdala and why the individuals "choice" is corrupted. Why the individuals actions seem so bizarre. A simple example of this are the actions taken while intoxicated vs the actions when sober.

Addiction is lifelong and has genetic components which predispose certain individuals to becoming an addict. Beating addiction involves not only an individuals will but a support system that enables individual growth and a lifestyle without drugs. The support system is where the failure exists and why addicts relapse.

Now the argument at hand involves at what point do we stop administering aid (government resources) to saving a life? That is a ethical/moral/financial conundrum in which I do not have an answer but I believe some criteria should be set.

Again, people really need to study the neurobiology of drug addiction. I had the same viewpoint as most here until I actually studied the topic and became more informed. It is not cut and dry.

Nothing you said changes my view.

 

[hlee]

Even a recovering addict is still an addict. "Once an addict, always an addict."

Can an addict be/become a productive member of society? And if so, are they still a useless drain on society?

 

[AngryKoala]

Nothing you said changes my view.

Fair enough.

 

[AngryKoala]

Even a recovering addict is still an addict. "Once an addict, always an addict."

Can an addict be/become a productive member of society? And if so, are they still a useless drain on society?

I would like to think I'm a productive member of society. I work, pay taxes, help others when I can and have a family I'm raising. I absolutely refuse painkillers as treatment because of my previous addictions.

Everyone has a certain viewpoint and I do not believe anything I or others say here will sway that opinion. It is similar to a conservative trying to change a liberals opinion or vice versa. People are usually entrenched in their own opinions.

The solution is usually somewhere in the middle of opposing opinions.

 

[TurboTrout]

im guessing you have NEVER been in a situation like that. Might have been that guys first time processing evidence like that. Little thing called adrenaline flowing makes you fuck things up that you KNOW NOT TO DO or to not do things that you KNOW YOU NEED TO...like put on gloves. Trust me, ive studied the science of fucking up i.e. error causation and taken quite a few classes on it over my career. I dont care how experienced somebody is, when adrenaline is flowing(and it likely was in this guys case) thats when the most errors occur. So its how you trap those errors... i.e. something like the swiss cheese model. There should be several road blocks for trapping errors such as this and one of those mechanisms is his training partner...who is supposed to be calm, level headed, etc.. in these potential high adrenaline scenarios. HE is supposed to help catch his trainee's errors. I am sure that department also has policy and procedure for doing what they were doing...thats another error trapper. But at the end of the day, the most perfect system of trapping errors still has yet to account for the very complex human brain and all the ways it can come up with to fuck up simple tasks.

You’d have guessed wrong.

And much more is normally on the line than letting some poor junkie get away lol

 

[TurboTrout]

People who OD on Fentanyl need to be left to die. Period.

Same with fat people having a stroke or MI or diabetic emergency, amiright!

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Ya'll keep talking about 'addicts' and 'addictions'. How many here know that there actually IS a difference between "addiction" and "dependency"?

A HUGE difference. And one that is definitely NOT FUN to find out.

 

[TurboTrout]

Even a recovering addict is still an addict. "Once an addict, always an addict."

Can an addict be/become a productive member of society? And if so, are they still a useless drain on society?

Tons of the great minds had demons, seems the deeper the mind the more likely to find some dark areas.

I got no dog in this fight, but that’s pants on head stupid, I’d also wonder if you’d say the same thing for all the cops and fudds who take pills for their “back pain” while their wives and daughters take pills for their “anxiety”

 

[AngryKoala]

Ya'll keep talking about 'addicts' and 'addictions'. How many here know that there actually IS a difference between "addiction" and "dependency"?

A HUGE difference. And one that is definitely NOT FUN to find out.

Yup, dependence is where you start experiencing the withdrawal symptoms (negative consequence for discontinuation of drug use) and addiction is the actual disease.

It is quite the interesting topic once you dive into it.

 

[rjacobs]

You’d have guessed wrong.

And much more is normally on the line than letting some poor junkie get away lol

You cant even have an intelligent conversation about the topic of errors under stress...

Just a drive by snarky comment...

but I didnt expect any less.

I love how most "liberals" claim to be so educated, yet they usually can't carry a conversation, usually because the topic is well out of their wheel house. My cousin is the same way...fucking commie he is. He's superior to you at everything, but when you engage him in a conversation it turns into a screaming match because instead of admitting he doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground in the topic at hand, he gets fucking angry... I think its hilarious personally. Not sure I have met to many conservatives who do shit like that. Most will admit they dont know anything about whatever the topic is. Hell I admit that most of the time when I DO know a lot about the conversation.

 

[Im2bent]

Tons of the great minds had demons, seems the deeper the mind the more likely to find some dark areas.

I got no dog in this fight, but that’s pants on head stupid, I’d also wonder if you’d say the same thing for all the cops and fudds who take pills for their “back pain” while their wives and daughters take pills for their “anxiety”

Big difference between taking pills for your back pain and O.D.ing. If you do take enough back pain pills to o.d. or you did eat yourself into a diabetic coma then yeah fuck you. Now before all you libbys go nuts on me. I was on meds for type 2. I was overweight. I have done just about every narcotic there is. I chose to change my ways. I had bariatric surgery and lost the weight and am no longer on diabetic meds by controlling my diet. Also got off the cpap same way. I stopped the drugs. Was a waste of money. Granted i have a very high tolerance to addiction. oh yeah also quit drinking when I woke up in an emergency room. Had I died I would have deserved it.

 

[AngryKoala]

Big difference between taking pills for your back pain and O.D.ing. If you do take enough back pain pills to o.d. or you did eat yourself into a diabetic coma then yeah fuck you. Now before all you libbys go nuts on me. I was on meds for type 2. I was overweight. I have done just about every narcotic there is. I chose to change my ways. I had bariatric surgery and lost the weight and am no longer on diabetic meds by controlling my diet. Also got off the cpap same way. I stopped the drugs. Was a waste of money. Granted i have a very high tolerance to addiction. oh yeah also quit drinking when I woke up in an emergency room. Had I died I would have deserved it.

Not sure if your back pain comment was directed at my post or not but I stopped once I became so tolerant I took 11 vicodin at once and felt my heart rate and breathing drop which thankfully I was smart enough to induce vomiting which probably saved my life. I passed out and woke up a day later.

Never touched another pain killer after that, withdrawal was hell though as was the depression. I'm not so sure I didn't permanently change my capacity for happiness.

This thread has seemed to derail (surprise surprise lol), everyone has their own viewpoint and no one here is changing anyone's mind.

 

[308pirate]

Same with fat people having a stroke or MI or diabetic emergency, amiright!

Strokes and diabetes have multiple proximate causes. Overdoses have only one.

Neither being overweight nor eating foods that are "bad" for you are illegal

Narcotics and their abuse are.

GTFO

 

[TurboTrout]

You cant even have an intelligent conversation about the topic of errors under stress...

Just a drive by snarky comment...

but I didnt expect any less.

I love how most "liberals" claim to be so educated, yet they usually can't carry a conversation, usually because the topic is well out of their wheel house. My cousin is the same way...fucking commie he is. He's superior to you at everything, but when you engage him in a conversation it turns into a screaming match because instead of admitting he doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground in the topic at hand, he gets fucking angry... I think its hilarious personally. Not sure I have met to many conservatives who do shit like that. Most will admit they dont know anything about whatever the topic is. Hell I admit that most of the time when I DO know a lot about the conversation.

I have addressed comments on here and even cited sources, you’re just flinging shit like a little spider monkey

And how could I be a “liberal” when I’m for minimum government and maximum individual liberty?


Under stress?

If the cop screwed up (well worse than he did) he might..what drop the drugs down a storm drain and the poor junkie, who probably needs hospital more than jail, would “get away with it”?
If I screw up in a stressful situation, it’s at best the end of my career, most likely dental records time.

Again, rookie is not even in the top 20 dangerous jobs, so spare me the mellow drama

If rookie loses his shit over just handling evidence, what happens when it’s something that’s actually stressful like a fight, car crash, etc?

 

[TurboTrout]

Strokes and diabetes have multiple proximate causes. Overdoses have only one.

Neither being overweight nor eating foods that are "bad" for you are illegal

Narcotics and their abuse are.

GTFO

Well the mmmaaaasssss majority of strokes, MI, beties, are a result of being fucking fat, that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that it takes a lot more daily bad decision to become a land yacht than it does for say some college kid to fuck up and OD at a party

Per junkies with their “back pain” and prescription drugs vs honest junkies who just want a buzz or whatever, and their less refined street drugs, so you’re judging who should be saved based on the law du jour?

Y’all have much more faith on the whims of government than I do

 

[Downtown]

I'm a little surprised at the confidence of some here that they could never ever develop a dependency on narcotics. I've known a few people, including a well respected judge, who got hooked on pain killers after being legitimately prescribed or after surgeries. Seems to me that it could happen to most people. There is certainly a good bit of evidence that points to some physicians, pharmacists and drug manufacturers intentionally causing and profiting from addiction.

 

[TurboTrout]

I'm a little surprised at the confidence of some here that they could never ever develop a dependency on narcotics. I've known a few people, including a well respected judge, who got hooked on pain killers after being legitimately prescribed or after surgeries. Seems to me that it could happen to most people. There is certainly a good bit of evidence that points to some physicians, pharmacists and drug manufacturers intentionally causing and profiting from addiction.

I’d wonder how many of those pointing their sausage sized fingers at the “junkies” are hooked on coffee, sugar, tobacco, or for some reason just seem to need more and more of whatever prescriptions they currently are consuming, but it’s for that “back injury” they got while working like a MAN! lol ie I’d wager many who are saying EMS should do nothing and watch “junkies” die, probably are hooked on something themselves, but it’s different because gov and their doc in the box sayz it’s ok. Same deal with how those VERY outspoken against gays often secretly crave dick.

 

[Im2bent]

Not sure if your back pain comment was directed at my post or not but I stopped once I became so tolerant I took 11 vicodin at once and felt my heart rate and breathing drop which thankfully I was smart enough to induce vomiting which probably saved my life. I passed out and woke up a day later.

Never touched another pain killer after that, withdrawal was hell though as was the depression. I'm not so sure I didn't permanently change my capacity for happiness.

This thread has seemed to derail (surprise surprise lol), everyone has their own viewpoint and no one here is changing anyone's mind.

Nope not you I quoted Turbo and was responding to his "but what about the fudds and cops taking painkillers...."

 

[hlee]

Tons of the great minds had demons, seems the deeper the mind the more likely to find some dark areas.

I got no dog in this fight, but that’s pants on head stupid, I’d also wonder if you’d say the same thing for all the cops and fudds who take pills for their “back pain” while their wives and daughters take pills for their “anxiety”

Did you quote the correct person? Or, do you take offense to the oft quoted statement that “recovering addicts” are one slip away from back to square 1 on recovery? Or, do you recoil at the veiled supposition that addicts are not necessarily irredeemably useless drains on society. Honestly, I can never tell with you. Full disclosure, “TurboTrout has entered the chat” is the queue for the thread taking a left turn to dumpster-fire-land- every damned time. But, carry on.

 

[hlee]

I’d wonder how many of those pointing their sausage sized fingers at the “junkies” are hooked on coffee, sugar, tobacco, or for some reason just seem to need more and more of whatever prescriptions they currently are consuming, but it’s for that “back injury” they got while working like a MAN! lol ie I’d wager many who are saying EMS should do nothing and watch “junkies” die, probably are hooked on something themselves, but it’s different because gov and their doc in the box sayz it’s ok. Same deal with how those VERY outspoken against gays often secretly crave dick.

Nope, no, nyet, nicht. I’ve had 2 ACL surgeries and taken a total of 1 Vicodin tablet.

The closest I have to an addiction is diet soda- and I can quit any time…

 

[Im2bent]

By the way why is no one commenting on the 2 lengthy articles quoted in this thread that are basically calling bullshit on this leo and other leos oding on fentanyl? And saying they are basically having panic attacks...

 

[Rthur]

Some animals are more equal eh?

Can we also turn down anyone who’s over ideal body weight?

Ether you’re for saving lives or your not, if you’re not..crazy thought, maybe medicine might not be for you.

Give me a list of deadly foods that can kill others by contact.
False equivalency.

R

 

[TurboTrout]

Did you quote the correct person? Or, do you take offense to the oft quoted statement that “recovering addicts” are one slip away from back to square 1 on recovery? Or, do you recoil at the veiled supposition that addicts are not necessarily irredeemably useless drains on society. Honestly, I can never tell with you. Full disclosure, “TurboTrout has entered the chat” is the queue for the thread taking a left turn to dumpster-fire-land- every damned time. But, carry on.

My comment was to the “drain on society” nonsense.

Sigmund Freud
Cocaine

Thomas Edison
Booze and coke

Benjamin Franklin
Booze and opioids

Vincent Van Gogh
Basically everything lol

I’m not really a echo chamber guy for the left or the right, which in turn causes ripples when I get in a discussion with ether side as they tend to go on party lines on damn near everything.

 

[TurboTrout]

By the way why is no one commenting on the 2 lengthy articles quoted in this thread that are basically calling bullshit on this leo and other leos oding on fentanyl? And saying they are basically having panic attacks...

Wouldn’t surprise me, in my old job I got propofol on me loading a patient, dumped some water on my forearm and carried on. I’d think if this was the case you’d seen a ton of it in EMS. But I haven’t researched it too much.

Give me a list of deadly foods that can kill others by contact.
False equivalency.

R

That kill on contact thing though...

Still number one killer is heart attacks, number one cause is being fat, what was that thing Shapiro says, facts don’t care about your feelings?

 

[Im2bent]

My comment was to the “drain on society” nonsense.

Sigmund Freud
Cocaine

Thomas Edison
Booze and coke

Benjamin Franklin
Booze and opioids

Vincent Van Gogh
Basically everything lol

I’m not really a echo chamber guy for the left or the right, which in turn causes ripples when I get in a discussion with ether side as they tend to go on party lines on damn near everything.

They were high functioning addicts

 

[TurboTrout]

They were high functioning addicts

So can we agree only SOME addicts/drug users are a drain on society

Just as SOME straight laced types are a drain on society?

 

[Rthur]

Wouldn’t surprise me, in my old job I got propofol on me loading a patient, dumped some water on my forearm and carried on. I’d think if this was the case you’d seen a ton of it in EMS. But I haven’t researched it too much.




That kill on contact thing though...

Still number one killer is heart attacks, number one cause is being fat, what was that thing Shapiro says, facts don’t care about your feelings?

You should call Dr Fallacy and quote your numbers.

R

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I'm a little surprised at the confidence of some here that they could never ever develop a dependency on narcotics. I've known a few people, including a well respected judge, who got hooked on pain killers after being legitimately prescribed or after surgeries. Seems to me that it could happen to most people. There is certainly a good bit of evidence that points to some physicians, pharmacists and drug manufacturers intentionally causing and profiting from addiction.

And THIS is where the term "dependence" comes from. It is what a person does with said dependence,,,, that makes the difference.

 

[TurboTrout]

You should call Dr Fallacy and quote your numbers.

R

Hysteria > Facts
Welcome to 2021

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Give me a list of deadly foods that can kill others by contact.
False equivalency.

R

Only two that I am aware of are:

Fugu (done improperly) and,

Certain mushrooms. In truth, ALL mushrooms are edible. Some only once.

 

[Maggot]

Nope, no, nyet, nicht. I’ve had 2 ACL surgeries and taken a total of 1 Vicodin tablet.

The closest I have to an addiction is diet soda- and I can quit any time…

On the other hand, when I had hip replacement surgery, on leaving the hospital they gave me 90 - 2mg dilaudid, then refilled it for 60 more. I took them as long as I needed them and put the rest on the shelf with 0 withdrawls of any sort. Theres still a bunch sitting in the closet.

I wouldnt suggest that for most people, I seem to be able to tolerate it ok. I have nasty allergic reactions to the Oxy crap they pass out.

 

[Maggot]

My comment was to the “drain on society” nonsense.

Sigmund Freud
Cocaine

Thomas Edison
Booze and coke

Benjamin Franklin
Booze and opioids

Vincent Van Gogh
Basically everything lol

I’m not really a echo chamber guy for the left or the right, which in turn causes ripples when I get in a discussion with ether side as they tend to go on party lines on damn near everything.

Dont forget Samuel Taylor Coleridge who wrote Kubla Khan after waking up from an opium dream.

Part of the difference was that in those days those substances were not illegal so there was not so much stigma attached to something you could walk into the pharmacy and buy for little or nothing. A lot of them used laudanum on a regular basis.

 

[hlee]

The single greatest advancement in molecular biology (PCR)- and one could argue by extension modern medicine- was invented by Kary Mullis while he was tripping on LSD.

The very few incidents of illicit drug users making profound advancements in art/science/culture do not forgive the enormous and egregious harm that these substances wreak upon society. To equate these individuals to street junkies that will kill you with bare hands for pocket change fails basic logic and does nothing to further the conversation.

 

[308pirate]

Well the mmmaaaasssss majority of strokes, MI, beties, are a result of being fucking fat, that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that it takes a lot more daily bad decision to become a land yacht than it does for say some college kid to fuck up and OD at a party

Per junkies with their “back pain” and prescription drugs vs honest junkies who just want a buzz or whatever, and their less refined street drugs, so you’re judging who should be saved based on the law du jour?

Y’all have much more faith on the whims of government than I do

Fuck off troll

 

[TurboTrout]

The single greatest advancement in molecular biology (PCR)- and one could argue by extension modern medicine- was invented by Kary Mullis while he was tripping on LSD.

The very few incidents of illicit drug users making profound advancements in art/science/culture do not forgive the enormous and egregious harm that these substances wreak upon society. To equate these individuals to street junkies that will kill you with bare hands for pocket change fails basic logic and does nothing to further the conversation.

Very few incidents of illicit drug users in the arts?

 

[TurboTrout]

Fuck off troll

Now that’s a leftist comment!

“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.” -Margaret Thatcher

 

[hlee]

Very few incidents of illicit drug users in the arts?

Very few incidence of profound advancement of civilization by illicit drug users- regardless of their chosen profession. While the % may be higher, the total number is quite insignificant compared to the total number of drug users.

 

[TurboTrout]

Very few incidence of profound advancements of civilization by illicit drug users- regardless of their chosen profession. While the % may be higher, the total number is quite insignificant compared to the total number of drug users.

Very few people period make large advancements

I would say the majority in the arts have used, maybe not getting addicted, but used for sure

Lots of the great philosophers also used some type of drugs. Pretty much all the founding fathers at the very least dabbled in weed

Thing was no one gave a shit because the government and media didn’t go all puritanical on it. Puritanical types I’d wager made less positive advancements than those who played with drugs.

People just need to chill out and stay in their own lane, golden rule and all that, and if someone gets hurts, be it a OD, or a fat ass falling off their hoverround, or a athlete wiping out on a bicycle or climbing or something, or a accident at a range, that’s why we have EMS, they arnt there to judge (we have PLENTY of people for that these days) they are there to help put whomever the poor bastard is back together again.

 

[Maggot]

Very few incidence of profound advancement of civilization by illicit drug users- regardless of their chosen profession. While the % may be higher, the total number is quite insignificant compared to the total number of drug users.

First, I go back to an earlier statement...a huge problem is that these things are illegal and thus by default have stigma attached.

Have you ever read of the Eleusinian Mysteries? Back in the time of socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, almost all the Greeks would go to the city of Eleusis just north west of Athens where they would all gather in a large building and drink wine spiked with ergot and Amanita Muscaria mushrooms. They would while high relive the passion of Demeter, Persephone, and Hades. It was generally held that this was something every man should do while on earth. Read: NO STIGMA ATTACHED. Nothing Illegal.

With the exception of Jesus of Nazareth they dont get much more influential than Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.

Scroll down to the testimonials.

The Eleusinian Mysteries: The Rites of Demeter - World ...​

https://www.worldhistory.org › article › the-eleusinian-...



The Rites of Eleusis, or the Eleusinian Mysteries, were the secret rituals of the mystery school of Eleusis and were observed regularly from c.

 

[Maggot]

Very few people period make large advancements

I would say the majority in the arts have used, maybe not getting addicted, but used for sure

Lots of the great philosophers also used some type of drugs. Pretty much all the founding fathers at the very least dabbled in weed

Thing was no one gave a shit because the government and media didn’t go all puritanical on it. Puritanical types I’d wager made less positive advancements than those who played with drugs.

People just need to chill out and stay in their own lane, golden rule and all that, and if someone gets hurts, be it a OD, or a fat ass falling off their hoverround, or a athlete wiping out on a bicycle or climbing or something, or a accident at a range, that’s why we have EMS, they arnt there to judge (we have PLENTY of people for that these days) they are there to help put whomever the poor bastard is back together again.

Follow the money.

 

[Im2bent]

Very few people period make large advancements

I would say the majority in the arts have used, maybe not getting addicted, but used for sure

Lots of the great philosophers also used some type of drugs. Pretty much all the founding fathers at the very least dabbled in weed

Thing was no one gave a shit because the government and media didn’t go all puritanical on it. Puritanical types I’d wager made less positive advancements than those who played with drugs.

People just need to chill out and stay in their own lane, golden rule and all that, and if someone gets hurts, be it a OD, or a fat ass falling off their hoverround, or a athlete wiping out on a bicycle or climbing or something, or a accident at a range, that’s why we have EMS, they arnt there to judge (we have PLENTY of people for that these days) they are there to help put whomever the poor bastard is back together again.

You are still equating 2 different classes of people as the same. Are you trying to say the people you listed are the same as some street crackhead? Let me clarify something for you. ALL MEN ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. I know the horror right? There are geniuses and then there are tards, and everything in between. There are good people and there are evil people. Reality sucks huh? Why should society be your big brother and run to the rescue every time you fuck up? And by fuck up I mean make the conscious decision to partake in the "art" of getting high. Thats your decision and your ass. "Oh but the poor lad is addicted...he can't help it....". Was he born addicted? If so I have some sympathy. But most make the decision to try that first experience. The information is out there everyone knows the ramifications. You could get addicted. You made the choice. So now we can't choose to let nature take it's course? No one is saying put a bullet in their brain...just let nature take its course....

 

[Im2bent]

Oh and so what if rich and or famous people also did drugs? How does that vindicate anything?

 

[TurboTrout]

You are still equating 2 different classes of people as the same. Are you trying to say the people you listed are the same as some street crackhead? Let me clarify something for you. ALL MEN ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. I know the horror right? There are geniuses and then there are tards, and everything in between. There are good people and there are evil people. Reality sucks huh? Why should society be your big brother and run to the rescue every time you fuck up? And by fuck up I mean make the conscious decision to partake in the "art" of getting high. Thats your decision and your ass. "Oh but the poor lad is addicted...he can't help it....". Was he born addicted? If so I have some sympathy. But most make the decision to try that first experience. The information is out there everyone knows the ramifications. You could get addicted. You made the choice. So now we can't choose to let nature take it's course? No one is saying put a bullet in their brain...just let nature take its course....

And if the weak minded 85IQ who got hooked on whatever wasn’t hooked he’d cure cancer? I think not.

And yes it’s part of the gig for EMS, they help when you get hurt due to no fault of your own, or when you do something dumb, be it during a sport you don’t need to participate in, or due to fucking up with some substance, it’s literally the job description and what we pay taxes for.

If you only want to be cared for by people who refuse to help folks you look down on, go hire a private medic and nurse and open your own mini private hospital

Again, the biggest cause of death is caused by being fat, and that’s completely avoidable, “Oh but the poor lad has fat genetics...he can't help it...."

 

[Im2bent]

And if the weak minded 85IQ who got hooked on whatever wasn’t hooked he’d cure cancer? I think not.

And yes it’s part of the gig for EMS, they help when you get hurt due to no fault of your own, or when you do something dumb, be it during a sport you don’t need to participate in, or due to fucking up with some substance, it’s literally the job description and what we pay taxes for.

Again, the biggest cause of death is caused by being fat, and that’s completely avoidable, “Oh but the poor lad has fat genetics...he can't help it...."

If someone wants to sort/punish people by morals instead of heal them, they can always become a cop

Let those fuckers die too....personal responsibility. Now if you are paying premiums for health care I suppose you have a reasonable expectation to receive EMS. But why are cops playing doctor?

 

[TurboTrout]

Let those fuckers die too....personal responsibility. Now if you are paying premiums for health care I suppose you have a reasonable expectation to receive EMS. But why are cops playing doctor?

Beats just writing traffic tickets or enforcing gun control and covid lockdowns