Suppressors OSS Modular Suppressors

[tundratrader]

So every part of this is an NFA item. So if you want multiple calibers you will be paying six times what you normally would. Is that correct? This looked like a good idea. If HK is using it must be good or else they got lowest bid.

YHM phantom QD in 7.62 works awesome and will switch between calibers with ease. The POI shift is not much to complain about IMHO on them.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

So every part of this is an NFA item. So if you want multiple calibers you will be paying six times what you normally would. Is that correct?

No, go back up thread and read the explanation given by OSS/Johnny on which part is the NFA item and why the other pieces are not. He also covers what the associated costs are for changing the internals out for other calibers without needing another stamp.

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

2014-1-17 www.texasguntrust.com SHOT SHOW I met with the oss silencer guys at the HK booth. I am skeptical. Nothing personal. The designers have at least the socom credentials. I didn't catch what their engineering background was. Not that that is necessary. I really do not know what to think about this silencer design.

The design work and machining is incredible. It borders on a work of art. I just cannot decide if this design is pure engineering and machining genius or a rube Goldberg contraption that is overly complicated and doesn't do what more simple and traditional designs already do with less machining effort.

I really want to see this silencer in action. It has multiple modules with the core being permanently mounted to the rifle and then each module, I.e. a sound reduction model, thread onto and over the core. Additional modules thread on to the sound reduction model. This allows this one suppressor to be used on multiple caliber rifles with the addition or deletion of the various add on modules.

I just can't decide if this is pure engineering genius or rube goldberg craziness. Time will tell. I look forward to seeing put up against a template tactical nemisis, Thunder beast arms 30p1, a socom762, a 762sd. And a sr762.



Shot Show 2014 [url]www.TexasGunTrust.com OSS Silencerr - YouTube[/url]

 

[Eben]

Watching the video, and seeing pictures from another site, I have some concerns;

1. The unserialized core section that is attached to the barrel is empty and there are no conventional baffles, so it appears that the design is doing most (*) of it's suppression by redirecting gas backwards between it and the serialized Back Pressure Regulator Module shroud, I'd be very interested in how this compares against against conventional designs in DB reduction.

* Most, because there is an additional Sound Reduction Module, of which both the core and shroud are unserialized.

At this point I have to be skeptical that after years and years of development work with conventional baffles, that this new design can surpass, or even meet that.

2. How can the Sound Reduction Module not be an additional serialized part if it does what the name suggests?

I reread OSSmission's post from 7/16 to learn that the BATFE doesn’t consider the additional Sound Reduction Module to be a suppressor because it’s unable to be attached to a weapon, this is a very interesting and positive interpretation!

3. MythBusters did a slow motion video of gas escaping the middle seam of the Osprey under low pressure from a handgun cartridge, how will the O ring design between the Back Pressure Regulator Module and the Sound Reduction Module stand up to high pressure rifle cartridges?

4. If those octagonal pieces don't line up perfectly, my OCD will kick in!

 

[Lowlight]

As I noted above, I have seen it work, granted it was on a busy range using a 5.56 and not a 7.62 but I have to think if HK is using it and giving it the SD designation, it's been put through it's paces.

Johnny is not a hard sell, and is not prone to shucking and jiving when describing the system.

The cut way is really what tells the tale for people who are more familiar with traditional suppressor designs. Besides, if you are really worried about sound suppression in a precision rifle you have no idea what you are looking at when it comes to this type of shooting. Sound suppression as a determining factor is nowhere near the top of the list.

I don't know the intimate details on what needs a stamp or not, if you have to stamp more than the sound modular and the sleeve / back pressure tube it can be a cumbersome and self defeating process. So, clarification on that might be necessary. I can see a stamp for the first level unit and then the sound modular, after that is it really just a series of brakes and hiders.

I am sure with HK picking it up, he doesn't need us to justify his existence but if he can come out again, I have just about every manufacturer out there, we can do a side by side. I have over 25 suppressors so...

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

Thanks Frank. I respect your opinion and the guys definitely are not hard selling it.

I just want to see and hear it in action myself.

 

[Eben]

As I noted above, I have seen it work, granted it was on a busy range using a 5.56 and not a 7.62 but I have to think if HK is using it and giving it the SD designation, it's been put through it's paces.

Johnny is not a hard sell, and is not prone to shucking and jiving when describing the system.

The cut way is really what tells the tale for people who are more familiar with traditional suppressor designs. Besides, if you are really worried about sound suppression in a precision rifle you have no idea what you are looking at when it comes to this type of shooting. Sound suppression as a determining factor is nowhere near the top of the list.

I don't know the intimate details on what needs a stamp or not, if you have to stamp more than the sound modular and the sleeve / back pressure tube it can be a cumbersome and self defeating process. So, clarification on that might be necessary. I can see a stamp for the first level unit and then the sound modular, after that is it really just a series of brakes and hiders.

I am sure with HK picking it up, he doesn't need us to justify his existence but if he can come out again, I have just about every manufacturer out there, we can do a side by side. I have over 25 suppressors so...

Thanks, I had read that you tested it, but didn't see an impression of suppression level.
I value accuracy, then suppression and low mass, so if this can beat a 30P-1 in those categories on a bolt gun I'll be impressed.
On a (semi) automatic it doesn't look as easy to switch the shroud and end piece between multiple weapons as a conventional one piece design, but a plus is being able to extend the rail (or shorten the barrel) and still be able to operate with or without the suppressor, as only the section near the end is vented.

 

[Lowlight]

It's definitely a more single weapon solution.

You won't be switching it around much without having to buy multiple pieces. It really doesn't lend it self to multi weapon use.

Consider the background, the gun and suppressor are one in the military you don't go swapping that stuff.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

It's definitely a more single weapon solution.

You won't be switching it around much without having to buy multiple pieces. It really doesn't lend it self to multi weapon use.

Consider the background, the gun and suppressor are one in the military you don't go swapping that stuff.

This. It is a purpose built tool built for a specific segment of the military. I've been told there are some other options in the works that may be more appealing to the civilian market that will address multiple weapons but thats the extent of what I know.

 

[operator45]

We will soon have these in stock they are very outside the conventional suppressors and are very cool. These will be very very popular. Mark my words. (so buy one. Ha)

 

[PRDRIVER]

I have shot the OSS suppressor. On an M4 carbine with a standard charging handle and the selector on full auto, I had Zero blowback in my face during a mag dump. There is not another suppressor on the market that I have seen that can perform like that.

After meeting with the OSS team at SHOT, this is my understanding of the components. The core of the BPR that attaches to the barrel, the FHMB, is sold as a flash hider. The BPR is the other tube that goes over the FHMB, also has additional layers built into it to move gasses back and forth along the length of the BPR. The BPR is the item that carries the serial number. I spoke in detail about the MSR portion of the OSS system the OSS Team. The MSR ships with the suppressor and the overall length of the suppressor includes the MSR on your paper works. There is also no way to make this work as a suppressor on your rifle without first manufacturing a BPR and FHMB. I was told the ATF had signed of on this and did not require an additional stamp for the MSR unless it was purchased separately, at which point it would require an NFA Tax Stamp.

I will be stocking these suppressors.

 

[ms3]

I reread OSSmission's post from 7/16 to learn that the BATFE doesn’t consider the additional Sound Reduction Module to be a suppressor because it’s unable to be attached to a weapon, this is a very interesting and positive interpretation!

OSS's own website seems to disagree:

ATF Classification

SRM

One of a 2 component suppressor system
Not serialized when purchased as part of the system and at the time of the BPR registration
NFA Device
SRM'S PURCHASED INDIVIDUALLY ARE SUBJECT TO SERIAL # AND TAX.

i am not sure why you would ever buy a BPR without an SRM or an SRM without a BPR. And when you buy them as a 2 component system, you're buying a complete suppressor anyway -- no different than any other suppressor on the market? you're not saving tax stamps.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

OSS's own website seems to disagree:

ATF Classification

SRM

One of a 2 component suppressor system
Not serialized when purchased as part of the system and at the time of the BPR registration
NFA Device
SRM'S PURCHASED INDIVIDUALLY ARE SUBJECT TO SERIAL # AND TAX.

i am not sure why you would ever buy a BPR without an SRM or an SRM without a BPR. And when you buy them as a 2 component system, you're buying a complete suppressor anyway -- no different than any other suppressor on the market? you're not saving tax stamps.

Adding the SRM further reduces the db level and obviously increases the overall length of the device. You cannot attach a SRM to a weapon by itself. The only reason why I think they added the NFA restriction and serial number on purchasing a SRM separately, and this is a guess, is to prevent people from buying just a SRM and then building an adapter in their garage that would allow them to attach it to a weapon and have a functioning suppressor according to the letter of the law. But thats just my guess.

If you don't require a modular suppressor such as the BPR and SRM then the CTU model would be the way to go. You ARE saving tax stamps when it comes to SWITCHING CALIBERS. You pay for one tax stamp if you buy the BPR and SRM together or the CTU. To swap between calibers only requires you to purchase the different internals, which do not require another tax stamp. 1 tax stamp that will cover all the possible calibers configurations you shoot.

 

[ms3]

how do you purchase different internals? the ATF frowns on having extra suppressor internals lying around.

 

[jbgleason]

how do you purchase different internals? the ATF frowns on having extra suppressor internals lying around.

That's because, in this particular case, the "internal" part isn't a suppressor part. The outside tube is what ATF considers the "silencer" (using the ATF term, everyone take it easy).

I looked at this at SHOT and didn't "get it" until I saw it in person.

 

[Eben]

Here’s a picture that explained it’s functionality for me.

The Flash Hider Muzzle Brake core that’s user replaceable for wear, caliber change, and multi weapon usage, is either a reflex design that surrounds the barrel (as pictured) or conventional end of barrel attachment (not pictured).

Gas is directed backwards along the outside of the Flash Hider Muzzle Brake core when it hits the three baffles near the end, and the surrounding Back Pressure Regulator shroud itself looks to have a sandwich of fins and is slotted at the rear, so the gas moves forward again and exits into the Signature (Sound?) Reduction Module.

The Signature Reduction Module itself has four baffles and is similarly vented to it’s shroud.

As Lowlight already mentioned, this reflex design option would be applicable to AI Covert usage to reduce OAL (and the octagonal shape to reduce mirage), although the reduced back pressure wouldn’t be an improvement on a bolt gun.

I’m a fan of reflex designs (thanks Austin for my GA RSTA) and see a real benefit on (semi) automatics in making use of the dead space under the rail, although the minimum length for a pistol length gas port barrel looks to be about 10.5” for it to not hit the gas block (sorry AAC MPW 9" 300 BLK).

I assume one can buy two Signature Reduction Modules with the Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator, for even more configurability;
Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator for non hearing safe short profile.
Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator and one Signature Reduction Module for hearing safe and medium profile.
Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator and two Signature Reduction Modules for more suppression and long profile.

From the website I also see that there is a one piece design called the Combined Technology Unit.

Very innovative thinking here, kudos!

 

[poison123]

Here’s a picture that explained it’s functionality for me.

The Flash Hider Muzzle Brake core that’s user replaceable for wear, caliber change, and multi weapon usage, is either a reflex design that surrounds the barrel (as pictured) or conventional end of barrel attachment (not pictured).

Gas is directed backwards along the outside of the Flash Hider Muzzle Brake core when it hits the three baffles near the end, and the surrounding Back Pressure Regulator shroud itself looks to have a sandwich of fins and is slotted at the rear, so the gas moves forward again and exits into the Signature (Sound?) Reduction Module.

The Signature Reduction Module itself has four baffles and is similarly vented to it’s shroud.

As Lowlight already mentioned, this reflex design option would be applicable to AI Covert usage to reduce OAL (and the octagonal shape to reduce mirage), although the reduced back pressure wouldn’t be an improvement on a bolt gun.

I’m a fan of reflex designs (thanks Austin for my GA RSTA) and see a real benefit on (semi) automatics in making use of the dead space under the rail, although the minimum length for a pistol length gas port barrel looks to be about 10.5” for it to not hit the gas block (sorry AAC MPW 9" 300 BLK).

I assume one can buy two Signature Reduction Modules with the Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator, for even more configurability;
Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator for non hearing safe short profile.
Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator and one Signature Reduction Module for hearing safe and medium profile.
Flash Hider Muzzle Brake/Back Pressure Regulator and two Signature Reduction Modules for more suppression and long profile.

From the website I also see that there is a one piece design called the Combined Technology Unit.

Very innovative thinking here, kudos!

So by your own explanation you could 1+ stamps just for this suppressor?

 

[Eben]

So by your own explanation you could 1+ stamps just for this suppressor?

It's one stamp if you buy the FHMB/BPR and SRM(s) at the same time according to what I've read, so it's one stamp for the FHMB/BPR with one SRM, or one stamp for the FHMB/BPR with two (or more) SRMs.

 

[MarkCO]

I was glad I got to see it and get a well-versed discussion of the system from the guys at SHOT. My short answer, impressive, but for long range precision rifle bolt guns, may not be the best choice.

No-one has mentioned (or I missed it) that this system can be shot in hazardous environments, like meth labs. The technical stuff, at least to my engineering mind, was straightforward and I did not see them attempting to alter the laws of physics. For the AR platform, or a guy who has an AR and a bolt gun who only wants one tax stamp, I see it as a very good option. I am sure once understood, this will have a lot of LEA purchasing agents seeking quotes.

 

[PRDRIVER]

Here is my understanding of the OSS system. You cannot change so called internals. The FHMB can be purchase in different calibers, and they will all work with the BPR. The SRM however is somewhat caliber specific. It is my understanding that you cannot change the guts of the SRM without another tax stamp. So if you want an OSS suppressor to work on your 5.56 and .308, you will need to ask for a .30 cal SRM. The best way would be to order the whole unit set up for .30 caliber and then purchase a 5.56 caliber FHMB for your other rifle.

 

[ms3]

yes, i see it now. the FHMB is an elaborate and expensive reflex mount. but the SRM are still caliber specific, and require a BPR.

unless the BPR and SRM are dead cheap, this isn't really an economic win over traditional suppressors. and unless these are made from titanium, they're going to be freaking heavy.

i see what they are doing with their design, they are routing the gasses down a longer path instead of outright trapping them. it's neat, but by their own admission isn't optimized for sound suppression. it's optimized to eliminate backpressure, which is pretty obvious it will work in that respect.

this is going to be an absolute bear to clean.

 

[Glassaholic]

unless the BPR and SRM are dead cheap, this isn't really an economic win over traditional suppressors. and unless these are made from titanium, they're going to be freaking heavy.

i see what they are doing with their design, they are routing the gasses down a longer path instead of outright trapping them. it's neat, but by their own admission isn't optimized for sound suppression. it's optimized to eliminate backpressure, which is pretty obvious it will work in that respect.

this is going to be an absolute bear to clean.

I've been reading up on the OSS now that I'm building a 300BLK pistol with 10.5" barrel. First off, it does not appear to be "cheap", one quote I got would put me at $2200 after taxes and tax stamp for all the parts needed.

If it's optimized to eliminate back pressure, isn't that what an adjustable gas block is designed to do? Maybe I need to be educated here but what then is the suppressed setting on the AGB supposed to do if not help with back pressure?

As far as cleaning, this looks like the perfect solution for a sonic cleaner, any drawbacks to that?

 

[Eben]

I've been reading up on the OSS now that I'm building a 300BLK pistol with 10.5" barrel. First off, it does not appear to be "cheap", one quote I got would put me at $2200 after taxes and tax stamp for all the parts needed.

If it's optimized to eliminate back pressure, isn't that what an adjustable gas block is designed to do? Maybe I need to be educated here but what then is the suppressed setting on the AGB supposed to do if not help with back pressure?

As far as cleaning, this looks like the perfect solution for a sonic cleaner, any drawbacks to that?

It's designed to reduce the pressure coming back through the barrel.
This pressure is also known as gas face, and is caused by among other things a tight suppressor bore.
The adjustment range of an AGB would do little to reduce this, and is used primarily to make sure the firearm cycles accurately.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you Eben, that helps greatly. So let me see if I understand this correctly: With a suppressed barrel as the bullet exits the barrel and begins to enter the suppressor, the gases immediately behind the bullet begin to enter and fill the chambers of the suppressor, this buildup continues as the bullet moves through the length of the entire suppressor but before the bullet leaves the suppressor the gas pressure inside is now pushing back down the bore (opposite direction of the bullet)? Is that the case, or what am I still missing?

 

[Eben]

Thank you Eben, that helps greatly. So let me see if I understand this correctly: With a suppressed barrel as the bullet exits the barrel and begins to enter the suppressor, the gases immediately behind the bullet begin to enter and fill the chambers of the suppressor, this buildup continues as the bullet moves through the length of the entire suppressor but before the bullet leaves the suppressor the gas pressure inside is now pushing back down the bore (opposite direction of the bullet)? Is that the case, or what am I still missing?

That's a good summary.
Along with a looser bore aor a reflex design, another method is adding forward purge hole features to the baffles.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you again Eben, I'm building a 300BLK right now and I have read (I know we can't believe everything we read, especially off the internet) that this cartridge tends to do better than 5.56x45 when suppressed. Will this have any relation to the aforementioned back pressure issues or is it something different entirely?

I apologize if this seems off topic, but I am looking for the best way to suppress my 300BLK with short barrel and I thought the OSS might be a viable option for me, thank you.

 

[Eben]

Thank you again Eben, I'm building a 300BLK right now and I have read (I know we can't believe everything we read, especially off the internet) that this cartridge tends to do better than 5.56x45 when suppressed. Will this have any relation to the aforementioned back pressure issues or is it something different entirely?

I apologize if this seems off topic, but I am looking for the best way to suppress my 300BLK with short barrel and I thought the OSS might be a viable option for me, thank you.

The easier to suppress characteristics of 300BLK comes from using subsonic ammunition, which isn't generally available or reliable in 5.56mm, and also the pistol cartridge quantity powder that burns completely in a 9" barrel compared to the 5.56mm which was designed for a complete burn at 20".
There's a good information source at http://300aacblackout.com/, in particular a comparison of 300BLK with both 5.56 and 9mm;
http://300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf

I went with a Griffin Armament RSTA reflex design suppressor on a 9" AAC MPW.
Here's a picture of it's FH with a MicroMOA Govenah AGB, so I can shut off the gas for a single shot with no back pressure, and an upgraded KAC URX 4 8.5" rail;

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you Eben, those are the specs that I have read too (been to the websites you linked already, but thank you for sharing) and that's a big reason why I chose the cartridge to begin with. I actually have a TBAC 30BA I bought last year (and am still awaiting the tax stamp!!!). I bought this so I could swap it out with a number of different rifles, but I'd like something shorter for my 300BLK build. I may decide to only shoot subsonic and if that is the case then I may just get the TBAC 30PSS and be done with it, at 5" it's not a huge thing but should be enough for 300BLK subsonic without ear protection. The OSS is still intriguing for me but at $2000+ I'm not convinced. Sure would be nice if Colorado had a "Suppressor Day" or something that someone could organize where manufacturers and owners could bring out their stuff...

 

[z71rat]

I am getting the itch... in a really bad way to get my 1st one. This looks to be the most interesting one that I have studied yet!!

DK

 

[Erich_Coors]

I am definitely going to get one. As soon as the $ is right, anyways.

 

[Carnivore]

Gents:
I have to say that I pulled it apart at RO and from a Mechanical Engineers view point, the machining is drop dead gorgeous. I did not shoot it, but the thing is amazingly intricate and a work of art. Amazing work, and Johnny is a first class individual.

 

[rocdoc]

I tried calling Johnny using the number he posted and it is disconnected. I tried emailing him at the address he posted and it was returned as undeliverable. Is he still with OSS? Does anyone have updated contact info for him? Or is there someone else to contact now?