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Paycheck Vs Principles

D

DamnYuppie

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 9, 2011
413
6
49
Idaho
So I have a conundrum I need help with. At my current employer the have a HUGE push for people to donate to United Way. It is a very big deal at my company. They want everyone in the company to give and they do track it. Many of our executives have part of their bonuses tied to this for some ungodly reason.

Well for many personal reasons I loath United Way. I hate partaking in this and prefer to give my money to other organizations. When I informed my boss and HR department of this I was pretty much told that if I didn't tow the party line I would be in serious trouble. Basically I would end up being terminated. They would do it in such a way that this wasn't the reason why, they would dance around it and come up wit some other reason. Shady as hell imho but have seen them do this to others.

I find this attitude that I must conform to be a bit offensive. This fund raising has nothing to do with my job. Yes it is a good cause but there are lots of them out there and I don't champion this one. So my issue is do I suck it up, do some cow towing and continue to ride my gravy train or tell them to stick it and try and find a new job? I have enough saved to live off of for a bit but I would be walking away from a large bonus paid out at the end of the year.

Overall I feel like the right thing to do is stick to my guns, yet many have told me to be reasonable and play along and then start looking for a new job early next year. That way I get the bonus and then hiring will have picked back up for what I do.

Thoughts?
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

The approached us, the "dirty feet people" (surveyors) with that a few weeks ago. They have a "Fair Share" which is one hour of pay a month, which I chose but I am having second thoughts on it. It does have an option to exclude a charity of your choice. Paycheck won't change because I'm going to have them reduce my 401Roth contribution (sickening to lose money like I have lately).

Our boss gave us a speech about the good that it does here locally then a few days later the UW sends us boxes of potato chips and life savers to make us feel better about our contribution.

If I were in you're shoes, I'd suck it up, pay your dues, and put in your time. Unemployment is higher than the stats you see and (from experience) the grass is not always greener on the other side. We're in the same boat, nice bonuses in the first part of December and raises in the spring...
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

If it's not much money, then I would go along with it. Is a day's wage worth losing a few months, or longer of wages?
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Thoughts? Yeah a whole bunch. First, Fuck United Way. They scim off about 40% for themselves. Second, its the samething everywhere. I hear the same story from many folks in many workforces. For ssme reason the companies try to force the employees to give to UW. Mabey they get good press. As far as Im concerned its coersion, and a form of extortion, and in oneway or another illegal.

But, times are tough and good jobs scarce so youd be stupid to lose the job now.

Yet that shit is hard to swallow. I think if it were me Id go to the local ACLU of somone similar, mabey just an attorney, and then go in after awhile wearing a microphone and get a recording of therir telling you that youll be terminated if you dont give or stop giving to their UW. With a recording youll have solid evidence of the coersion and then you can do what ever you want. Mabey even sue them and get a fat settlement check and laugh all the way to the range.

Fuck United Way
Fuck United Way
Fuck United Way

But take care of your own ass first. Cover your bases and make them play in your ball park.

Hope thats clear.

Oh, and one more thing.....FUCK UNITED WAY
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

The monetary outlay is small. It is more of the "we are tracking you and will punish you if you don't comply" mentality that has me riled up.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The monetary outlay is small. It is more of the "we are tracking you and will punish you if you don't comply" mentality that has me riled up. </div></div>

You wouldnt be much of a man if it didnt.

Fuck UW.
mad.gif
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You wouldnt be much of a man if it didnt.</div></div>

The issue that keeps bothering me is what kind of man are you though if you go along with it? Does it make you a prudent man, a malleable man, or worst case a coward?

I have talked about this with several key people in my organization, many SVP's and the grand puba of HR herself. They don't seem to see why what they are doing is wrong...
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Get it on tape. When I was laid off by a past employer they made it clear in our meeting that they were going to try to fuck me on my unemployment. I went to Walmart and bought a $40 digital voice recorder and stuck it in my right breast pocket turned on and ready to record (even put a piece of tape over the red light). When my boss came around, I hit 'record' on the sly and recorded 12 minutes of me baiting him into saying that they were going to try to deny my unemployment claim. I made my claim and they tried to deny it but the unemployment lady said they didn't even need my tape because they had done the same thing to so many other people so I got it without needing the tape but it was a sledgehammer in my favor and made me feel a lot more secure after I had his dumb-ass on tape. Point being, get them on tape as they aren't going to put it in writing and they know they're in the wrong, you might never need it but it's good insurance. My state allows you to record any conversation you're part of yours might be different so check.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You wouldnt be much of a man if it didnt.</div></div>

The issue that keeps bothering me is what kind of man are you though if you go along with it? Does it make you a prudent man, a malleable man, or worst case a coward?

I have talked about this with several key people in my organization, many SVP's and the grand puba of HR herself. They don't seem to see why what they are doing is wrong...
</div></div>

I think making wise decision makesyou a wise man. Like I said, make sure your bases are covered then burn them a new one.

Look at one of my signature lines. Knowledge is power. Your attorney has the knowledge of how to handle it, Use it to wield power and

Fuck your company and UW
grin.gif
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get it on tape. When I was laid off by a past employer they made it clear in our meeting that they were going to try to fuck me on my unemployment. I went to Walmart and bought a $40 digital voice recorder and stuck it in my right breast pocket turned on and ready to record (even put a piece of tape over the red light). When my boss came around, I hit 'record' on the sly and recorded 12 minutes of me baiting him into saying that they were going to try to deny my unemployment claim. I made my claim and they tried to deny it but the unemployment lady said they didn't even need my tape because they had done the same thing to so many other people so I got it without needing the tape but it was a sledgehammer in my favor and made me feel a lot more secure after I had his dumb-ass on tape. Point being, get them on tape as they aren't going to put it in writing and they know they're in the wrong, you might never need it but it's good insurance. My state allows you to record any conversation you're part of yours might be different so check. </div></div>

He said what I said.

What we said.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get it on tape. When I was laid off by a past employer they made it clear in our meeting that they were going to try to fuck me on my unemployment. I went to Walmart and bought a $40 digital voice recorder and stuck it in my right breast pocket turned on and ready to record (even put a piece of tape over the red light). When my boss came around, I hit 'record' on the sly and recorded 12 minutes of me baiting him into saying that they were going to try to deny my unemployment claim. I made my claim and they tried to deny it but the unemployment lady said they didn't even need my tape because they had done the same thing to so many other people so I got it without needing the tape but it was a sledgehammer in my favor and made me feel a lot more secure after I had his dumb-ass on tape. Point being, get them on tape as they aren't going to put it in writing and they know they're in the wrong, you might never need it but it's good insurance. My state allows you to record any conversation you're part of yours might be different so check.</div></div>

That is almost exactly what I was going to say, check your laws about recording conversations in the workplace, and bust that ass. I'm positive you aren't the only one that doesn't want to give to that particular charity, or some that really can't afford to give at all. If it keeps you up at night, do something about it.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I will just tow the party line for now and look for greener pastures next year.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Had it at a previous employer and they also forced the issue. Found out that there were several "at the time" gun organizations but you had to specifically name them by name and number and ALL the money you donate will go to them.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

A man has to do what a man has to do.

If you have a family the choice is clear take care of them first. I would give as little as possible. If it is to the point that it affects your work, start looking for a new job. Sounds like you are a number, take the money give to who you want. Look for something different when it come then leave.

In the end it does not matter what "we" think, it is you that has to live it.

Sounds like you could have a few extra dollars make those count where you want them to.

My .02

In the end I am sure some of the money does help people in need.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Another point is that by them forcing you to donate they're effectively stealing from your income. I don't see any difference between this and flat out ripping you off. If you don't want to force the issue like I mentioned above with the tape recorder, you should go see the EEOC (equal employment opportunity commission, wage and hour division) it's a governmental body that has major-trumping power over your company. Once EEOC has audited the company (they will) your problem will be solved as well as all the other employees who are being fucked. Plus they will have to make a pretty damn good case against you in the future in order to fire you without you coming back at them with a retribution claim since the whole event would be on record with the EEOC.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Consult an employment lawyer - you may be able to corner them into a nice big fat settlement for their illegal bullshit and keep your job while you look for another one.

I would also get the recording and then tell them to go stick their illegal practices up their asses. If they give you shit, then play back the recording and tell them you'll send it to every local newspaper and radio station and also you will post it on YouTube. Watch them shit themselves.

During the recording ask questions like:

"Does the top level management know about this practice - do they track our contributions as well? I really don't want to do this but if you say it'll hurt my chances of promotion or even risk my job then I guess I have to." Basically establish through their answers that this is company practice and not a 'rogue' HR loon.

And if you can - "Has anyone really been fired because they didn't contribute?"

God I hate bullies.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

My company supports a very specific local charity in much the same manner as the OP. I have made the decision to not contribute to the local charity for several reasons; one of the most important to me is charitable donations spent on overhead costs.

Listen, every charity in the country has what is known as a 501(c)3 status...basically a tax status. As a 501(c)3, they are required to make public all financial records. This particular local charity has 12% overhead -- 12 cents of every dollar goes just to keep the lights on. So when I'm asked about making a donation to this charity, I decline. First, it's my money to donate, and I'll put it where I like. Second, there are charities out there that have a much lower overhead cost. I take that into account when I'm making a decision.

I've got no affiliation with this group, but if a person were inclined to make a donation, here's a group with 7% overhead and posted financials.

http://www.gktw.org/about/financials.asp?m=about
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Good luck whatever you decide.

United Way is a shake down, pure and simple, The higher ups get huge rewards for putting the bite on their subordinates, especially the larger companies.

Vacations, bonuses, golf outings, accolades, it goes on and on. All they have to do is get their captives, er I mean, employees, to agree to have their wages tapped for the glory of ego-maniacal platitude spewers.

Never mind the absurd costs. Never mind the ineffectiveness of the "Program" your money is directed to. Never mind the nonsense about "Non-Profit" status though all the staff make 6 figure salaries...

As Maggot said, Fuck United Way. And the Red Cross is only slightly less full of shit!

I sympathize with you Damn Yuppie. I put a lot of money into the Catholic schools here and that is my fall back when someone tries to put the bite on me. I'm also self employed.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Q, I agree that the Red Cross has their problems as well. fact is though, their over head is in the 12%-15% range, and for an outfit to maintain the infrastructure they do, thats really reasonable. And honestly, in time of an emergency, when youve been stranded w/o food or water for several days, theres nothing youd rather see than that truck with the big red cross on it. They do a lot of good.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

screw units way. As others have said, if you can record the conversation after consulting your state's laws. Single party states are great. Bust his ass. So many companies keep getting away with stealing from people. You earned your money. Its like being forced into a union when you never signed up and had your job for a long time.

What is next, being forced to contribute to a political fund ? It goes on and on.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Polytrauma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn Yuppie,
Do you work for a wholesale discount club? </div></div>

No I actually work for a "think tank" for a health care company.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PadronAniversary</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is next, being forced to contribute to a political fund ? It goes on and on. </div></div>

Yup, that is what I keep telling many of my coworkers. At least many of the people I work with feel the same way. Sadly there are many that give you a glazed look and can't fathom why someone else would be upset.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

next year get it on tape. Go to a lawer and sue them for a threating and hostile work enviorment causing you mental stress from being fired due to cohersion, I am sure that will solve the situation and put alot of coin in your pocket for more sticks.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

I had to come back to this thread, the reason they give to "united way" or some charity is for a tax break. there is another way you can screw them. They take the "mandtory donations" tally it up and give it away. The donations used helps the company for Tax bennifits. donate 600$ get a repiept from them for the donation and use it to file for your own taxes. Take a copy of that tax and go to the states local IRS and let them look into it. In order to file for it the company has to use companies monies earned from profits, not the collected monies of its workers.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

if you are going to tow the company line just put down a quarter or some other small thing like that.

Edit
We also have something like that here. I give $.50 each paycheck. So I give 6 bucks a year. I was asked and I said if I give any more it will affect my M118lr budget.

They just looked at me and said ok and walked away.

End Edit
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpk762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you are going to tow the company line just put down a quarter or some other small thing like that.

Edit
We also have something like that here. I give $.50 each paycheck. So I give 6 bucks a year. I was asked and I said if I give any more it will affect <span style="color: #FF0000">my M118lr budget </span> .

They just looked at me and said ok and walked away.

End Edit </div></div>

Well done.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

To be honest I am amazed out how many responses this got. Good to know I am not the only one who is put off by this behavior.

As stated I am going to play nice. I am surprised by the number of responses to have a recorded conversation. I am not sure I would do that to be honest as I am a terrible liar and anyone who knows me would be able to spot a mile away that I was up to something.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

I have a friend of mine that was a head of a red cross in NC and I respected them - she gave me the lowdown - they care. They help.

I worked for acompany where we had to put at least $1.00 so I put $1.00 in - same shit- WHY do companies do this? What is their benefit?


Right now I'm in a quandry as well, I was hired for day shift but told there might be "Some" shift work - I was put on Swing Shift and told it's permanent don't ask again.

So I'm already looking for another job. Always line up another first obviously.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Around here the BOY SCOUTS are included in UW and they do have marksmanship traing and do a good job. See if yours can be directed at least to a good cause. Don't start taping/suing unless you ready to be self employed in your own company. As much as possible do all things in YOUR time. Regards
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thoughts? Yeah a whole bunch. First, Fuck United Way. They scim off about 40% for themselves. Second, its the samething everywhere. I hear the same story from many folks in many workforces. For ssme reason the companies try to force the employees to give to UW. Mabey they get good press. As far as Im concerned its coersion, and a form of extortion, and in oneway or another illegal.

But, times are tough and good jobs scarce so youd be stupid to lose the job now.

Yet that shit is hard to swallow. I think if it were me Id go to the local ACLU of somone similar, mabey just an attorney, and then go in after awhile wearing a microphone and get a recording of therir telling you that youll be terminated if you dont give or stop giving to their UW. With a recording youll have solid evidence of the coersion and then you can do what ever you want. Mabey even sue them and get a fat settlement check and laugh all the way to the range.

Fuck United Way
Fuck United Way
Fuck United Way

But take care of your own ass first. Cover your bases and make them play in your ball park.

Hope thats clear.

Oh, and one more thing.....FUCK UNITED WAY</div></div>

I concur with everything maggot has said in this topic!
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

My old P.D. tried to make us sign pledges even if we didn't give anything. I hate the United Way because of their heavy handed tactics and support of organizations I don't support, and a few more reasons. My Sgt. told me I had to sign the form rather I contributed or not. I told my Sgt. he could not force me to sign, and that the UW was not a government organization and could not force me to do anything. I tore the form in half and tossed the form in the trash as my Sgt. watched. That was the last I heard of it until the next year and this was repeated again; that was the last time anything was said to me about UW.
I'd be more than happy to sue my employer and United Way if I lost my job for not contributing. Document their actions and recorded statements are a pluse.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I will just tow the party line for now and look for greener pastures next year. </div></div>

I think that is wisest. In this economy it pays to have a place to land before you jump.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

I absolutely refuse to give to United Way due to the Gestapo tactics they employee. Why do I have to sign a form stating I do not want to to give? If it's coerced, it's not a gift anyway it's a tax.

My wife and I give generously as we can to the charities we choose. United Way will never be one of those. While it's hard to say that when I have 2 children and a wife depending on my income (she works as well) I will not be strong armed into giving to anyone.

I am not writing this to second guess your decision, you have to do what you think you need to do and I respect your decision.

Just wanting to say that I hate United Way.

Charlie
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Bottom line, United Way isnt a charity. It may have a 501C but what it really is is just a brokering house for funds for OTHER charities. I wonder how they make their decisions on which to fund?
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

I used to work for a big bank that always tried to make us give to UW. I never did because I like to give to my own charities.

Anyway, the bank would then use the statistical information for good publicity. They would say that their bank gave so many millions of $ and donated thousands of hours in community service each year - even though it was all their employees who did the giving!

Definitely get everything on tape - who cares if it's legal or not! You have to fight fire with fire, and if they're using illegal tactics to make you give, then you should tape them and threaten to release it - even if it has to be anonymous. That's messed up on so many levels and they should all pound sand!

We're all behind you!
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

I have learned the hard way maybe you don't have to. Don't cut off your nose to spyit your face. That being said you don't have to lay back and like it either. Put on or happy to do it face and but up with it until you can better yourself. If siad money is a small amount to you just the place it's going. Try to make a deal with them to donate 1.5 times amount to a good cause you won't mind your money going to.

Now I for one work for my money I don't make much, but I damn sure couldn't put up with someone telling me what to do with it. And to say we're wacthing you and gonna get if you don't do so an so. I've been there and willnot go back. I'll work for myself and do without before that.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Definitely get everything on tape - who cares if it's legal or not!
</div></div>

If it is not legal, this is a good way to turn an attempt to get back at the employer and have them punished for illegal tactics into a conviction and potential jail time for the original poster.

That's why you should care.

Do it legal. I support that 100%. My employer also has the big drive for UW; however, they ask for 100% to fill out the online pledge...not 100% do...and zero donation is an option. I'm sure I'm not the only one who gives zero.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Good luck punishing employers...

IF another job is available take it, otherwise a paycheck is required...

Luckily as a DOD contractor we don't get this crap, although the DOD employees do.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Info
•Brian Gallagher is still President and CEO of United Way, and currently earns $1,037,140.00 a year, according to a December 2010 report from the American Institute of Philanthropy.

No Charity there!
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

Reminds me of when the CFC would come around every year in the Corps. The Bn. SgtMaj would be pumping everyone for donations so he could hit his 100% participation. Don't give and you would find yourself on every shit detail for the next month. Total bullshit.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

There was a time when those in the military and civilians in government service were similarly pressured to donate to United Way, failure to donate could impact performance appraisals, promotions etc...a class action suit fixed that issue..Now they can give you the donation form but that's about as far as they can legally go...
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Duc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> earns $1,037,140.00 a year, </div></div>

Note to self: Start bullshit charity.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

IMO united way is liberal anti-family, that doesn't sound lawful to fire you over such an incident! I would record it with a date and time for further instances. It could go a long way in court if you have documentation. Write it down while it is still fresh in your mind!
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

If it's legal in your area (it is here) I too would record it even if I didn't plan on suing, or anything else with it. You can never cover your ass too much, and if anything does come of it down the road, you will have the audio recordings to back up your side of the story. IMO this is definitely the way to go even if you aren't planning to do anything about it now. You never know what they may do to you in the long run.
 
Re: Paycheck Vs Principles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Duc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> earns $1,037,140.00 a year, </div></div>

Note to self: Start bullshit charity.</div></div>

No shit! I was thinking the exact same thing!
 
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