Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

[JelloStorm]

I just read an awesome sticky about bedding and noticed that he was using pillars. I'm also looking at a MCM HTG stock that has the pillars installed for my new R700 308 Varmint barreled action.

Now, this may sound dumb, but we're all here to learn right?

The only bolt action rifle I've ever dissembled totally would be a Savage 93r17 rimfire, so I'm not entirely sure what Remington barreled actions look like when not attached to a stock.

In the tutorial on bedding the OP actually mills out the stock to fit the pillars. See first picture on thread:

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1167022#Post1167022

Now, I'm guessing there would normally be screws that attach the action to the stock, and the pillars fit onto the screws?

And if he's milling his stock out for the pillars, wouldn't that give less strength to the action/stock assembly since there's only bedding holding them in?

I hope someone can clue me in here...

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

Screws go through BM and then through pillars into action. Where the pillar going to go? It's trapped between bottom metal and the action, which is all screwed together.

Pillars prevent the Fiberglass from being compressed, and give the action/BM metal to metal contact.

Bob

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

So the bottom metal would have area drilled out to accommodate the extra width of the pillars vs. just the screws?

If the stock has pillars built in (McMillan specifically) the screw would go through the bottom metal and then through the stock with pillars molded into it, and then into the action?

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

If someone could show me a picture of the assembly, I think that may help...

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

Here you go: A wood stock without pillars and McMillan stock w/pillars

The pillars are flush with the edges, so the BM fits on top of the pillars, just like the action sits on top of them.

Bob

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the bottom metal would have area drilled out to accommodate the extra width of the pillars vs. just the screws?

If the stock has pillars built in (McMillan specifically) the screw would go through the bottom metal and then through the stock with pillars molded into it, and then into the action? </div></div>

No, to the first part, and yes to the second....

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

I run a super high resolution so they are hard to see. Wouldn't the pillars protrude out from the "top" of the stock so the barreled action has something to sit on?

Here is what I'm used to...

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The pillars are flush with the edges, so the BM fits on top of the pillars, just like the action sits on top of them.

Bob

</div></div>


OOOHHHHHHH.... shit just clicked in my head! So in that bedding sticky, he was basically "installing" the pillars into the stock using the bedding since they weren't molded in first?

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JelloStorm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OOOHHHHHHH.... shit just clicked in my head! So in that bedding sticky, he was basically "installing" the pillars into the stock using the bedding since they weren't molded in first? </div></div>

That’s exactly what I was doing. The pillars are there to help prevent stock compression between the receiver and DBM or bottom metal. Basically, once finished, the pillars are part of the stock and will never move under normal circumstances.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

Its always fun to watch the light bulb go off above someone's head.

 

[Widowmaker0001]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

FYI,the pillars being made of aluminum or steel,either way, take about 65in/lbs of torque to tighten to spec for the action bolts,where the wood for instance is recommended to be tightened to 25in/lbs for the action bolts to prevent compression of the wood.

~R

 

[Dick D]

Re: Pillars in stocks... I'm not grasping the use.

Actually, metal pillars into gunstocks has been an old practice for about 110+ years now since Paul Mauser starting putting them in his military rifles about 1895 or so. Wood stocks change dimensions with humidity changes in the air. On some of the early rifles going into desert climates the wood would shrink down so much that the actions would get loose in the stocks and litterally rattle up and down and the guard screws would work loose. So he put a protusion on the front of the trigger guard that touched the bottom of the action and put a steel pillar around the rear guard screw so that at least the guard screws would stay tight I've seen 100 year old mausers where the wood has shrank and worn down to where the action will move up and down in the stock 1/10" or so but all the metal is held tight together with this metal to metal to metal contact.
Anyway, custom gun builders started putting pillars into wood stocks for this purpose. In synthetic stocks pillars are installed in the stocks to keep excessive guard screw tension from compressing the stock material. Wheather they are necessary depends on the material and the G.S. tension. I don't know of anyone who has ever give a recommended G.S. torque setting for a stock except H.S. Precision. Normally suggested G.S. torque recommendations are made by the barreled action makers and Remington, Savage and most others set their factory guns about 30-35" lbs at the factory. The USMC set the M40A1's at 65 in. lbs. but they used steel bottom metal, pillars and grade 5 scoket head cap screws. I personally have seen the heads pop off factory G.S.'s or the threads strech at this level. We set this about 35 in. lbs. in our shop.
Also, pillars have nothing to do with bedding an action to a stock. Pillars are to compensate for stock shrinkage or compression, and bedding is to reduce all the manufacturing tolerances which all items have to basically zero. You can put pillars in a stock without bedding it, and you can bed an action to a stock without pillars, as they each serve totally different functions.
All the about is just my humble opinion, yours may vary.