So you want to score low (<4) on phase 2 and score high (4+) on phase 3 to be a SBR and then be able to get the free registration?
Am I reading that right??
- Thread starter Conrad101st
- Start date
Am I reading that right??
I thought the point system was now done away with. Ugh. Gonna have to read all this crap. Or you could just be free lol.
They did not use the worksheet and points system in the final rule.
That’s what I thought but people having me second guessing asking all these questions. It’s really quite simple, stupid, but simple. Dont register and face the consequences if ever caught or register during the 120 days and put a stock on it.
There's also option 3, don't be a bitch and wait for them to get spanked in court... AGAIN.
That makes no sense, but....I reckon thats the ATF for ya.
So you can't have sights on it at all? Am I reading that correct?
I'm trying hard to quit cussing but these cocksuckers can fuck right off.
Official new rule now says essentially if you could use the optic or sights with the gun held at arm's length like a pistol then fine.
But if you have to have it up close to your face to work, then that makes it an SBR
Thank you for the clarity
Groovy!!
Aren't SBRs hard to move across State lines? Like requiring a “mother-may-I” from ATF that never comes?
Yes Sir, you are correct. You need the kings permission to cross a state line......
Doc
Yes. They’ll grant approval but it’s a pain in the ass that now all registered brace owners will have to deal with whereas there was no issue for the brace owner beforehand.
If it hasn't been mentioned already.
The wording of the ATF rule allows for (possible) collection of tax after the fact. Since this is worded as a tax forbearance.
So those thinking about registering hundreds of SBRs for free... There is no free lunch.
The wording of the ATF rule allows for (possible) collection of tax after the fact. Since this is worded as a tax forbearance.
So those thinking about registering hundreds of SBRs for free... There is no free lunch.
And...
To add even more confusing questions, that no one can provide definitive answers to, this all seems to be based on ARs. What about all the other pistols or AOWs that people have put them on like shockwaves and Black Aces Tactical, MCX, Ruger chargers & PC chargers, Draco's, micro-roni ect...
Those don't need a buffer tube, so those folks seem pretty much screwed. My understanding is to form 1, you have to provide pics anyway?? Folks could just send pics of stripped AR lowers with a short upper attached to get stamp "free" SBRs. I think what the ATF put out raises more questions, than providing any semblance of clarity. But what do I know??
To add even more confusing questions, that no one can provide definitive answers to, this all seems to be based on ARs. What about all the other pistols or AOWs that people have put them on like shockwaves and Black Aces Tactical, MCX, Ruger chargers & PC chargers, Draco's, micro-roni ect...
Those don't need a buffer tube, so those folks seem pretty much screwed. My understanding is to form 1, you have to provide pics anyway?? Folks could just send pics of stripped AR lowers with a short upper attached to get stamp "free" SBRs. I think what the ATF put out raises more questions, than providing any semblance of clarity. But what do I know??
No pictures needed when submitting a form 1. Only dimensions.
Yeah....even more ambiguous.
I shot IHMSA for several years. Quite successful in a category called Unlimited Standing.
Not me but this is how I did it along with many others. This is a version of the "Taco hold". Lot of these guns would weigh upward of 7lbs.
An AR pistol is simply a "specialty pistol".
Lots of specialty pistols wear rifle scopes. Yet more evidence that the ATF is simply clueless and trying to "legislate" or "define" a class of weapon that they don't like. They hate ingenuity, especially when it outsmart them.
They are fucking morons that can fuck right off.
Oh and by the way. We shot those pistols like that at 200m on full size ram silhouettes, completely unsupported standing.
I dont need to shoulder a pistol to fuck something up from a fucking long way off.
Before SIG came out with their brace in 2013 (IIRC), AR pistols all had round tubes with foam sleeves. I, for one, found the round tube/ foam sleeve very comfortable and natural to shoot with a cheekBONE weld. As braces evolved I kept thinking, “Wow, these look cool but none of them work as well as the old foam sleeve.” I will admit that when the SBA3 came to market I started using this telescoping brace exclusively but as far as fixed braces go I will always prefer a foam sleeve for shootability. Call me crazy, and I think all this ATF fuckery is tyranny, but for now I’m keeping my pistols as pistols in that way. At least till the dust settles.
To be fair, if you read the entire vomitous document, they do kind of openly state that they don't have a clue how to stop people from having fun, so they went on YouTube and looked for videos of people doing things they thought were naughty and got offended and said we have to stop people from doing stuff that's not FUDD approved. Then used that pretty much as their entire justification for their actions.
This is how far our government has fallen. Watching YouTube videos made by view hungry folks, to decide on important regulations.
Much like how all the stupid idiots on YouTube were busy showing off how their "bump stock turned their AR into a machine gun".
The same thing with all stupid folks saying look, this brace gives you an SBR and showing it off on YouTube to try to get clicks and views.
So our unelected bureaucrats are using "YouTube influencer" videos as their justification for oppressing the law abiding citizens.
Great country we have going on about now...
Drive a couple nails or a small blade thru the back end of your brace so the rear portion is clearly not intended to touch any flesh.
Oh wait, did I just re-design the firearm to comply yet be more "assulty".
Oh wait, did I just re-design the firearm to comply yet be more "assulty".
How bout tennis balls on the buffer tube?
Have they mentioned that in their retarded rantings?
Yeah...I know, "Read what they wrote."
Nah, I'm not reading it, I've got no patience for it, and I dont really give a fuck.
How about a Nerf football on the buffer?
Hollow it out, stick it on the tube, then while I'm "out in the rice fields it can double as a pocket pussy.
This shit is coming to a head, I guarantee you that.
Have they mentioned that in their retarded rantings?
Yeah...I know, "Read what they wrote."
Nah, I'm not reading it, I've got no patience for it, and I dont really give a fuck.
How about a Nerf football on the buffer?
Hollow it out, stick it on the tube, then while I'm "out in the rice fields it can double as a pocket pussy.
This shit is coming to a head, I guarantee you that.
Their new standard is essentially "we'll know an SBR when we see one, and we reserve the right to change our mind at any time."
The final rule says they will be using completely subjective and fluid things like "is it intended to be fired from the shoulder," "does it look like a rifle," "are there people shooting similar guns to this one like a rifle," "has it been advertised like a rifle" to decide if you get charged with a felony.
Subjective and ambiguous rules that they won't tell you about until after you've broken them are not designed to be easy to follow. They're designed to be used as weapons against otherwise law abiding people. Citizens who by nature would comply if given an objective and unambiguous set of guidelines to follow.
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Make a list of all the rights one should pay for?...
R
R
Put a fleshlight on the end of the adjustable buttstock.
I'm pretty sure their new rules say nothing about intended to be fired from the groin...
That would make for an epic court case complete with demonstrations for the jury.
ATF: That's an illegal SBR
Citizen: no it's a gunpowder powered masturbation device because electrical ones wen't getting it done for me.
Or maybe most if us will do nothing. That's my hope. Become ungovernable. I will.
Many people have gone along with the laws and played the games but the sentiment seems to be that people are growing tired of playing the stupid games.
Between “bump stocks are machine guns because we say so” and “sorry those pistol braces we said were ok for a decade are now stocks and your pistols are SBRs, so register them or else” it’s not hard to see how, without a few Liberty friendly federal court rulings, ATF could easily get to “all semi-autos are post ‘86 machine guns because we say so, register them during this amnesty or else, and you can’t buy anymore.”
Just to through a little more shade on how asinine this is.
In Maryland, everyone with MP5 clones & many others. If you went the form 1 route the gun is then no longer a pistol. Per MD law an SBR must be no shorter than 29". So pick your poison. Becomes ATF legal & instantly illegal in MD.
Per decade old ATF rule your braced pistol must be under 26". Per new rule that pistol becomes a rifle making it illegal in MD that requires over 29" for SBR's.
So how is this new rule any different than legalized marijuana (federally illegal), Or amnesty for illegals (also federally illegal)?????
In Maryland, everyone with MP5 clones & many others. If you went the form 1 route the gun is then no longer a pistol. Per MD law an SBR must be no shorter than 29". So pick your poison. Becomes ATF legal & instantly illegal in MD.
Per decade old ATF rule your braced pistol must be under 26". Per new rule that pistol becomes a rifle making it illegal in MD that requires over 29" for SBR's.
So how is this new rule any different than legalized marijuana (federally illegal), Or amnesty for illegals (also federally illegal)?????
Don't forget that an imported pistol becomes subject to 922r once it's been made into an SBR via Form 1. So your MP5 is also now federally illegal unless you swap out enough parts to make it 922r complaint.
Then in theory, person A buys a lower and makes a rifle. He sells it to person B at a gunshow cause they really dont like it. Person B converts it to an AR pistol configuration and installs a brace. In turn He gets tired of it and sells it to person C. Now He’s gonna paper SBR it cause its a “pistol”. See where this is going. ATF will have to let you paper any Lower. Write your US Representative like I am going to do
If everyone would just hold and not do anything this would all go away. It’s one thing to go after a few dozen or maybe even a hundred but to go after 40+million people because of someone’s loose interpretation about something they know nothing about is insanity. It’s clear the ATF isn’t being truthful for to what this is about because many bullpups are actually shorter than most ARs with braces etc. and would therefore be more concealable, yet one we got to make stupid rules about and the other we do not. Complete clown gov we have going on. I mean if you are going to make stupid laws then I feel like you at least need to have someone that knows what the fuck they are talking about or doing on the decision making panel.
Oh I think all of us clearly see lol...but most of us are not under any impression that writing people, even if they would listen, is actually going to do anything.
It will get shot down. Supreme Court has already ruled on this type of thing. Look at "Major Questions" cases, most recently involving the EPA. Basically they said these type of administrative actions are far too sweeping and go beyond their scope / autority provided by Congress. Thus Congress needs to make these types of legal changes.
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Mech Tech
Legal carbine. If you get the wire stock, there isn't a shorter carbine made. Fits right in a backpack. Built like a tank, reliable.
The Tavor is also another .223 rifle that just barely clears the Federal 26" limit.
Yeah, and the ATF said that, once you register the SBR, you can change the stock out. But they also said that leaving the stock off and not registering would leave you out of compliance. So if I have a pistol and the newly registered SBR can I still take the brace off?
In short, there is a problem with registering the lower, but the brace is really the issue. The brace having a serial/registration number seems like the logical solution.
Hey @ToddM did you notice these YouTube references in your reading?
Doesn't the new rule say putting an optic on it makes it an SBR? L O L motherfucker my SIG 320 pistol has an optic on it, is that an SBR too now? Fuck off.
Can anyone show me a link/graph of all the braced pistols used in crime?
Something tells me I already know the answer.
This is a clue ^^^.
R
Something tells me I already know the answer.
This is a clue ^^^.
R
Step one. Set 3d printer to pistol brace mode.
Step two. Have 10 million of your buddies also set 3d printer to pistol brace mode.
Step 3. Print
Step 4. Be the upstanding, law abiding citizens that we all are and relinquish all those freshly printed braces to your local field office.
Step 5. Repeat steps 3 and 4.
Step two. Have 10 million of your buddies also set 3d printer to pistol brace mode.
Step 3. Print
Step 4. Be the upstanding, law abiding citizens that we all are and relinquish all those freshly printed braces to your local field office.
Step 5. Repeat steps 3 and 4.
It no longer matters. Supreme court has changed the rules. Public good is no longer a valid reason to ban. ATF can't creat laws, can create unconstitutional laws, can't change their definitions, and must interpret ambiguity from congressional laws in favor of the public. All gun laws must have strict historical precident from around 1791.
Bump stock took awhile, but new cases seem to be clearing quickly now.
Shit, they overturned Roe v Wade. They need to just drop NFA.
I think it says an optic with eye relief that is only functional if the weapon is shouldered, indicating intent to be shouldered.
what happens with all the “pistols” sitting in some FFL’s inventory now?
if no one buys them are those guys felons now?
if no one buys them are those guys felons now?
acog, lpvo….
And it's implied that they may determine even a bare buffer tube can be intended to be shouldered, if they think other characteristics of the firearm suggests intent to shoulder (meaning things like a magnified optic). So apparently even a pistol with a plain buffer tube with no attachment might be an SBR now:
The assertion that the presence of a rearward component like a buffer tube coupled with the use of phrases like "may not be designed, made, or intended," and "could indicate that a firearm is not designed and intended" means other factors can be considered in determining intent and leaves them a ton of room for interpretation.
If an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube "may not be" an SBR because of how it's set up, in stands to reason that there are cases where it might absolutely be considered an SBR by ATF under their new rule.
And they've said they are not giving out blanket interpretations, or determinations based on photographs, but instead will only give determinations on individual firearms if you send them to ATF for evaluation.
I'm sure some will read the above quoted passage, give ATF the benefit of the doubt, and assume they would never charge someone for pistol with a bare pistol buffer tube, but to me it seems that they are intentionally leaving themselves room to do exactly that.
