Pm2 3-27x56 P4f vs kahles k525i msr2

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
Thinking about trading the kahles for the pm2 3-27x56. Have had the 5-25x56 with the same turrets dt mtc which I liked. Mainly going to compete in prs. Would I be an idiot to trade? Will the p4f be a big handicap compared to msr2?
 

charnicus

Padawan
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 29, 2018
726
277
69
Kahles does reticle changes if you didn’t know. If you like the P4F the Mil4 is similar but with a floating dot. I don’t shoot PRS but the SKMR3 is a popular reticle with that crowd. I had it in a 624i and it’s an excellent reticle regardless of use. Without having experience with the 3-27 I can’t say you’d be an idiot to trade. Keep in mind the S&B is a way more expensive scope. I might question why one would want to trade me a more expensive scope for a cheaper one when they could sell said scope and have money left over still after buying a 525i. Especially at used prices. Reticles only considered I’d stay with the MSR2 over the P4F any day of the millennia.
 

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
both Scopes are pristine (the pm2 is 2 year old, kahles is 1). The guy has kahles for all his other rifles, and the pm2 is hard to move because of the reticle being old design. I know the reticle is a step down, but wonder if it still is a great deal.
 

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
Regarding the p4f vs msr2, I wonder how much of a handicap the lack of fine hash marks in the centre of the p4f is for holdovers...for PRS. Otherwise i find the reticles comparable for my use.
 

TangoSierra916

Major Hide Member
Hessian
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 11, 2017
1,045
310
89
Madison, WI
If you're talking an even trade for the SB I would do it all day. To @charnicus point the value of each scope is a bit different so maybe the SB owner just doesnt want to mess with selling it? I really like the 3-27 but it is a different optical design a bit different from the 5-25. Cant speak to the usage in PRS but I wouldnt hesitate to get the 3-27. Reticles like the MSR2, H2CMR and others with more data and holds in the reticle seem to be advantageous in the PRS world, p4f may still work if you are comfortable with it in that application, really is up to you as to the reticle and which you feel confident with.
 
Last edited:

charnicus

Padawan
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 29, 2018
726
277
69
From a value standpoint yeah it’s a great deal and unless you want to change the reticle in the S&B. The P4F isn’t a bad reticle but like @TangoSierra916 eluded to, there’s more data available in other reticles. The ranging bars across the whole bottom of the reticle are pretty neat and you’ll just have to efficient with dialing. If you’re a FOV nut the S&B is going to tickle the fancy more.

You got any pictures of this other scope?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TangoSierra916

charnicus

Padawan
Online Training Access
Belligerents
Minuteman
Oct 29, 2018
726
277
69
Can’t argue about the condition on it. Looks brand new.
 

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
My only concern is downgrading from msr2 to the p4f for prs but that may not matter a lot?
 

Eric32

USAF
Belligerents
Aug 14, 2011
751
179
49
Clarksville, TN
Its about 900$ for a horus reticle swap, and a little less for a grid.

I was in the same boat and traded my pair khales 624i for a 3-20 and a 5-25 it was the best choice i ever made.

I was annoyed with the Kahles, i felt that i had no eye relief with it. It was weird. But anyways i traded them stright up and it was by far an improvement.

The P4FL is a great reticle but you have to cut the reticle cross hairs in your mind. The cross hair is .8 mils from center to open space. So for me shooting in the east coast its works since i dont see much wind with a 6mm and 105 rdfs.

But also dialing and holding the gusts also works to but the reticle isnt going to hurt you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Adapt

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
does
Its about 900$ for a horus reticle swap, and a little less for a grid.

I was in the same boat and traded my pair khales 624i for a 3-20 and a 5-25 it was the best choice i ever made.

I was annoyed with the Kahles, i felt that i had no eye relief with it. It was weird. But anyways i traded them stright up and it was by far an improvement.

The P4FL is a great reticle but you have to cut the reticle cross hairs in your mind. The cross hair is .8 mils from center to open space. So for me shooting in the east coast its works since i dont see much wind with a 6mm and 105 rdfs.

But also dialing and holding the gusts also works to but the reticle isnt going to hurt you.
Do they fit the 3-27 with the new grid?
 

Claluja

Private
Minuteman
Aug 25, 2019
49
17
12
Have a 3-27 SB with a "fine" p4lf - great optic, but even with the "fine" I wish it was a floating dot.

Have a regular p4l in another SB, and am thinking about switching reticle for a floating dot. Too thick.

I'd get the 3-27, and switch reticles. Or buy it new with a better reticle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Adapt and charnicus

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
Got a reply from Germany. Around 700 euro for Gr2id or MSR2 reticle (horus is 100 more). 250 for change from DT LT turrets to DT2 or MT2.
 

Baner

Private
Belligerents
Feb 23, 2017
134
80
34
Got a reply from Germany. Around 700 euro for Gr2id or MSR2 reticle (horus is 100 more). 250 for change from DT LT turrets to DT2 or MT2.
The P4LF is an okay reticle, quite clean and simple but it works. Id take PMII over the k525i if it's a straight trade.

Asked about a reticle(Grid) swap too a month or so ago, they wanted 680€ + tax(25%) + shipping both ways, would be about 1000€ or so... and that's from here in Europe.

Most others takes around 350-450€ for a swap including tax. So wonder wth makes the PMII so special?...
 
Last edited:

Claluja

Private
Minuteman
Aug 25, 2019
49
17
12
The SB guy who does the reticle swaps we've been talking about is in Winchester, VA. Call him, before Germany.
 
Last edited:

clubsportmark

Private
Belligerents
Sep 1, 2017
54
58
24
I had emailed asking about turret swaps to gen2. Yet to have received a reply. But thank you for letting us know it’s an option. Some serious consideration needed
 

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
The P4LF is an okay reticle, quite clean and simple but it works. Id take PMII over the k525i if it's a straight trade.

Asked about a reticle(Grid) swap too a month or so ago, they wanted 680€ + tax(25%) + shipping both ways, would be about 1000€ or so... and that's from here in Europe.

Most others takes around 350-450€ for a swap including tax. So wonder wth makes the PMII so special?...
Not sure I will have to pay tax? Live in a non eu country. Still, it is expensive
 

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
Will try competing with the p4f and see how goes first :)
 

Wyfox

Gun Snob
Belligerents
May 24, 2012
1,325
565
219
Wyoming
I had the exact same scope on my 338 norma, great optic and the P4f is very usable and similar to an MSR which I have too. I much prefer the P4F and MSR to a Horus. I prefer to dial rather than do hold overs which can make a difference. It's a pretty large optic and extra long behind the turret housing, if mounted on a short action rail you may need a cantilevered mount to get it further forward

That scope appears to be CW if you didn't notice, I actually prefer CW turrets. It feels more natural to turn for me.
 

Adapt

Sergeant of the Hide
Belligerents
Minuteman
Mar 24, 2018
184
48
34
I had the exact same scope on my 338 norma, great optic and the P4f is very usable and similar to an MSR which I have too. I much prefer the P4F and MSR to a Horus. I prefer to dial rather than do hold overs which can make a difference. It's a pretty large optic and extra long behind the turret housing, if mounted on a short action rail you may need a cantilevered mount to get it further forward

That scope appears to be CW if you didn't notice, I actually prefer CW turrets. It feels more natural to turn for me.
yes, its CW which I prefer, and it does protrude some way back. much prefer it to my kahles k525 so far. Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wyfox