Pof p308

[tipper]

I bought two of POF P308 16" & 20" in Dec. 2013, took them to the range an put about 60rds through both it was a long day. Both rifles FTE, tried 3 diff. mags A.S.C. , DPMS, & G3 Pmag. After damaging 20 live rounds went with finger feed & the dam spring tail drew blood it came off both rifles. Anyway it was not a good day, the targets went in the trash because I did not want any one to see them. Maybe the rifles should of went in the trash or came out of the trash. Was not happy. To much money spent to just give up. Took them home to check if I could find some thing wrong other than they both have way to much free bore & the free bore is over sized or you can say hogged out, but I'm just a dumb consumer what the hell do I know. I called pof "that right no more caps it's lower case now" & told them the bad news, they said them an email & they would send shipping return, they also wanted some targets sent with the rifles. I sent them to them & got them back today, The repair order says they "cleaned both upper and polished chamber. checked head space on both and checked free bore in both barrels compared to pof's 7.62 reamer print "that they did not supply". Jeremy and Cody took the uppers to the range and shot both for accuracy. Both uppers were shot from the prone position with a bi-pod and sand bag. A6.5-20 Mark IV Leupold scope was used on both uppers for testing. Lower used had a Magpul PRS adjustable stock to insure proper check weld "WTF is this I'm just a dumb consumer". Ammo used was Atomic 175gr Sierra BTHP." this is their reply I retyped, an their reply was in all caps, does that mean they are yelling at me the dumb consumer. I will post their targets after I reshoot the rifles, but here are the targets that I sent them, there were more but they were not returned.
16"

20"

 

[Rda1911]

I shoot nothing but milspec ammo in my POF and it performs very well. Perhaps not as accurate as it might be with some load development but 100% reliable. Also despite being assured lubrication should be minimized on this unit I keep things lightly oiled with FP10. I have had failures to lock the bolt back on DPMS/Bushmaster branded mags

 

[RyeDaddy]

I'd be interested to see what you get next time out, and also to see POF's targets they sent back with the uppers.

 

[19Scout77]

Maybe you have absolutely no idea what you are doing? Judging by the lead sled and abnormally low ring height for an ar, either you have a concave face or need to find a clue.

 

[alpha6164]

Please do not take this as offense cause i was once there as well but i think it is you. The patters of your shots are just so all over the place. My buddy had a similar issue and ended up his rings had come loose and his scope was moving all over the place. I would say this whether this was the cheapest 308 AR you were posting about. The groups have no rhyme or reason or any pattern to them they are all over the place. Now if you can grab someone elses 308 AR (I dont care what brand) and then shoot tiny little groups then we can focus on the specific rifles. But the chance that two separate high dollar ARs are grouping like that would be extremely low in my opinion. You have to realize 90% of what makes an AR accurate on its own is the barrel and trigger. POF uses Rock barrels and Timney 3lb single stage triggers. The rest is on the shooter.

 

[JFComfort]

I'd be interested to see what you get next time out, and also to see POF's targets they sent back with the uppers.

Same here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tipper]

Maybe you have absolutely no idea what you are doing? Judging by the lead sled and abnormally low ring height for an ar, either you have a concave face or need to find a clue.

I'll start with you, the lead sled stays where it is at, for cleaning & working on rifles. The scope height fits me just fine, though you being a horses ASS & probably with a face to match might want it a lot higher.

 

[19Scout77]

Shoot off the bench much?

 

[tipper]

Please do not take this as offense cause i was once there as well but i think it is you. The patters of your shots are just so all over the place. My buddy had a similar issue and ended up his rings had come loose and his scope was moving all over the place. I would say this whether this was the cheapest 308 AR you were posting about. The groups have no rhyme or reason or any pattern to them they are all over the place. Now if you can grab someone elses 308 AR (I dont care what brand) and then shoot tiny little groups then we can focus on the specific rifles. But the chance that two separate high dollar ARs are grouping like that would be extremely low in my opinion. You have to realize 90% of what makes an AR accurate on its own is the barrel and trigger. POF uses Rock barrels and Timney 3lb single stage triggers. The rest is on the shooter.

Read the fine print on the targets each 5 shot group is with different ammo, of which none of them shot good, nothing is loose I did knot slap them together & run out to the range.

I can shoot, if you can do better than this let me know.

 

[tipper]

I did go to the range Saturday & they were having a NRA High Power match that was going to last most of the day. I did not wait because there would not be enough time left before they closed at 4:00pm. I'll get back this week. Tell them be nice.

 

[tipper]

Shoot off the bench much?

Well with a bad back when I get down on the ground, I might not be able to get back up with out your help OR a lot of pain medication .

 

[TexasMade]

Been there done that. POF AR 10's have been nothing but bad for me. Had 2. Both FTE. Inaccurate 4MOA. Send to POF. They send back saying they shot .5 MOA after they replaced this and that. I go test. 3MOA. I believe you can shoot, just as I know I can shoot.

 

[smaw]

I had problems with my POF 308 20" when I got it about 2 years ago. The story I heard at the time was POF was overwhelmed with popularity and demand and was farming out alot of the sub components and they were receiving parts that were a little out of tolerance. POF advertised their rifle as a dry rifle. Well it didn't operate correctly dry due to everything being just a little too tight. I went through about 250 rounds trying to "break it in" dry but it never took. I had so many FTE's that I lost count. Being a former Marine I reverted back to getting it wet with CLP and ran it wet for awhile with no issues. Now I dont even lube it any more and it runs perfect. I have ran it through several LR matches and 16 days of LR classes with no problems. Its had atleast 4k rds through it with no problems.

Also, I once ran into a bad case of bvac remans where the cases were not resized or resized improperly. This was confirmed by me first with a concentricity gage and then later by the manufacturer. The cases were too big and were getting hung up or stuck in the chamber.

Also, I have ran into few AR10 guys with issues like this where they have swapped out the stocks to a PRS and not put in the correct buffer tube, spring, and buffer.

So just bringing up ideas for you. I hope you can sort it out because that POF is very accurate if you do your part. I have got hits with it out to 1250 and it shoots 1/2 moa for me.

 

[alpha6164]

Read the fine print on the targets each 5 shot group is with different ammo, of which none of them shot good, nothing is loose I did knot slap them together & run out to the range.

I can shoot, if you can do better than this let me know.

Wow. So I ask if you are well versed jn shooting a semi and to prove your case you post a pic of you shooting groups with a hand gun? What the fuck does that have to do with shooting a large platform semi AR? At first I though it may be you but now I am 100% sure it's you and not the rifle.

 

[samnev]

I agree being a good pistol shooter does not always translate into being a good rifle shooter. I am at best a mediocre pistol shooter but can shoot my 308 POF, MR 762 and LMT well enough to consistently shoot groups under 1 moa. Not the greatest but not chopped liver either.

 

[alpha6164]

I agree being a good pistol shooter does not always translate into being a good rifle shooter. I am at best a mediocre pistol shooter but can shoot my 308 POF, MR 762 and LMT well enough to consistently shoot groups under 1 moa. Not the greets but not chopped liver either.

Of course not. Those two have nothing to do with each other. Hell people that can shoot tiny little groups with a bolt action that have never shot a semi automatic shoot like shit for a while until they get the hang of it let alone come pairing pistol to a semi automatic rifle lol. And that is when the two systems have many similarities such as scope , stock etc. Coming onto this site when you're shooting a semi automatic off the bench and complaining that you can't shoot tiny groups and posting pictures of your handgun targets to move that you are a master shooter is a recipe for disaster. You might as will post a video of you driving and state that since you know how to drive a car you must be a master in driving a semi AR LOL

 

[19Scout77]

You would be much more persuasive if you posted stories of tongue juggling Chris Costa's kiwis and pictures of your Italian supercar...

 

[alpha6164]

You would be much more persuasive if you posted stories of tongue juggling Chris Costa's kiwis and pictures of your Italian supercar...

So weak. That's the best your dumb ass came up with? Lol and btw I will let your mom, sister and gf for that. I hear they're doing an amazing job

 

[deersniper]

I agree being a good pistol shooter does not always translate into being a good rifle shooter. I am at best a mediocre pistol shooter but can shoot my 308 POF, MR 762 and LMT well enough to consistently shoot groups under 1 moa. Not the greets but not chopped liver either.

This

My POFs shoot we'll under .75 Moa. Shooting a semi rifle accurately is a whole different animal than bolt rifles or pistols. Pistols? Seriously?

POFs do have sticky chambers here and there from the barrel hardening treatment.

 

[samnev]

This

My POFs shoot we'll under .75 Moa. Shooting a semi rifle accurately is a whole different animal than bolt rifles or pistols. Pistols? Seriously?

POFs do have sticky chambers here and there from the barrel hardening treatment.

Yes seriously. I took my POF out today and shot a 0.7 moa 5 shot 100 yard group after zeroing my new Bushnell Elite G2DMR 3.5-21X50 FFP scope. On the other hand I shot pistol afterwards a P210-2/P49 which in my brothers hands can put 10 shots in the 10 ring @ 25 yards. In my hands however I am lucky to keep to shots inside the 8 ring. With a rifle my brother is only an average shot. Most of his groups run 1.5 moa. Then there are some of us that are naturals and are great shooter at whatever weapon they pick up. I have one friend Haak48 who is one of those type of shooters.

 

[deersniper]

Yes seriously. I took my POF out today and shot a 0.7 moa 5 shot 100 yard group after zeroing my new Bushnell G2DMR 3.5-21X50 FFP scope. On the other hand I shot pistol afterwards a P210-2/P49 which in my brothers hands can put 10 shots in the 10 ring @ 25 yards. In my hands however I am lucky to keep to shots inside the 8 ring. With a rifle my brother is only an average shot. Most of his groups run 1.5 moa. Then there are some of us that are naturals and are great shooter at whatever weapon they pick up. I have one friend Haak48 who is one of those type of shooters.

I was agreeing with you and questioning why the OP posted pistol targets when people asked him about his semi auto rifle ability. I know POFs are very accurate.

 

[BCP]

Well with a bad back when I get down on the ground, I might not be able to get back up with out your help OR a lot of pain medication .

Where are you in CA i can take a look at them if you like. I shoot at sac valley sometimes.

 

[tipper]

I've got more, I built this rifle first 25 rounds in 5 shot groups

 

[tipper]

I've got more, I built this rifle first 25 rounds in 5 shot groups

 

[alpha6164]

I've got more, I built this rifle first 25 rounds in 5 shot groups

That's what i am talking about. That looks way better. I was just thrown back by the targets shot by a pistol. But hope you figure out what the issues you are having.

 

[smaw]

Back to the FTE issue which is the most important. ARs can have timing issues when not using the correct buffer tube, buffer length, buffer weight, and spring. What kind of stocks, buffer tube lengths, buffer weights, and springs are you using? On my POF308 with PRS stock, my buffer tube oal is 10-1/8, spring oal is 12-1/2, buffer oal is 5-3/8.

 

[BCP]

The gas system has different settings too, if you are using hotter loads you might want to try the suppressed setting.

 

[smaw]

Bolt guns are easy to get good groups with. Gas guns like the POF or any other AR are much harder to get good groups. You have to learn how to manage the recoil. Think about it. There is the large mass of the bolt carrier group and buffer that starts moving aft as soon as you pull the trigger and it is extracting at the same time. Then it bottoms out in your buffer tube. Then it starts moving forward and is stripping off a round out of your mag. All of that mass moving back and forth during your shot will affect your accuracy. It just takes alot more practice to learn how to shoot gas guns consistently. I took a class where the instructor taught me how to deal with it.

 

[Manny2_0]

Bolt guns are easy to get good groups with. Gas guns like the POF or any other AR are much harder to get good groups. You have to learn how to manage the recoil. Think about it. There is the large mass of the bolt carrier group and buffer that starts moving aft as soon as you pull the trigger and it is extracting at the same time. Then it bottoms out in your buffer tube. Then it starts moving forward and is stripping off a round out of your mag. All of that mass moving back and forth during your shot will affect your accuracy. It just takes alot more practice to learn how to shoot gas guns consistently. I took a class where the instructor taught me how to deal with it.

Really

I don't post too much on here because everyone is so much more knowledgeable than me

I would have thought that the bullet would have left the muzzle before the gas/piston system starts the process with the bolt and carrier

well that's how I thought it would have worked

my semi p308 14.5 has the piston @ about ten inches along the bbl,
with only another 5 or so to travel before it exits

 

[smaw]

I would have thought that the bullet would have left the muzzle before the gas/piston system starts the process with the bolt and carrier

Thats how it was taught to me that there is some movement. I would be interested in knowing how far the BCG actually moved by the time the bullet exits my 20" barrel. I was told it moves some amount and requires some additional follow through and maintaining your NPA a little longer and alot more practice. I forgot that the op rod is also part of that mass that moves too.

Also, I dont like to comment on here either because I know I am still considered a new shooter when compared to alot of the members on here. They have reached levels that I can only dream about. All I can do is keep practicing so I get my hits.

The only reason I commented here was because I went through the same FTE and accuracy issues as the OP and I remember how frustrating that was for me at the time so I thought I could help.

 

[tipper]

Yes seriously. I took my POF out today and shot a 0.7 moa 5 shot 100 yard group after zeroing my new Bushnell Elite G2DMR 3.5-21X50 FFP scope. On the other hand I shot pistol afterwards a P210-2/P49 which in my brothers hands can put 10 shots in the 10 ring @ 25 yards. In my hands however I am lucky to keep to shots inside the 8 ring. With a rifle my brother is only an average shot. Most of his groups run 1.5 moa. Then there are some of us that are naturals and are great shooter at whatever weapon they pick up. I have one friend Haak48 who is one of those type of shooters.

I just don't see any proof here.

 

[tipper]

This is just a guess, muzzle velocity 2604,max chamber 57301psi, bullet barrel time 1.060ms, & psi at muzzle 9529,

 

[samnev]

I just don't see any proof here.

I took thePOF P-308 & MR 762 to sight in their new scopes. targets 1 & 3 for the MR 762 and 4 & 6 for the POF were the 25 and 100 yard final zero. I had trouble with the POF zero because I had not tightened the nut on the Larue mount enough and it took me 10 shots before it dawned on me to tightened them. At that point I only had 10 rounds left so I fired only 1 5 shot group from each. The POF still needs about .2 mils of left windage to be completely zeroed. That will be on my next outing.

 

[BCP]

So what happened?