I think you are missing my point. I agree the Christian faith is monotheistic. However that term is not used in scripture. Rather we developed that term to convey the theological truths about God we see in scripture. The same is true for the trinity. That specific term isn’t in scripture, but we developed the term to convey the theological truths about the Father, Son, and Spirit we see in scripture. My point is it is a fallacy to deny something like the trinity just because the word isn’t in the Bible. Just like it is a fallacy to deny monotheism just because the word doesn’t appear in scripture
Pope Death Watch... WITH A PRIZE!!! Quart of Maple Syrup to the winner!
- Thread starter sirhrmechanic
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Genesis 18 and 19 drives them nuts.
LORD literally translated YHWH.
Had a body.
Ate with Abraham.
No man hath seen the Father.
It's interesting that so many folks don't understand the word "Bible" actually is a derivative of "a collection of books"
The "book" that is referenced to in that verse is very clearly specially the actual Book of Revelation.
Which was it's own "book" at the time.
There was not this "bible" as we know it until hundreds of years later, rather there was a collection of "Books" or works and then eventually folks discussed and came up with which ones they thought they liked best and some semblance of order (which was NOT chronological for the most part) and then called that "The Bible".
You do realize that the Book of Revelation was stuck at the end of the compiled list of works that became accepted as the Bible, sometime long after it was written and it was not considered the "last book" by any means until some folks got together and decided the order and figured it would fit nicely there.
For example take Deuteronomy 4:2
"2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."
Well right after that we have almost the whole Bible, so obviously it was talking about the specific Book of the Law.
That verse in the Book of Revelation, clearly applies to that specific book.
Yet it's quoted by those who think God who talked to his people for thousands of years decided one day to just shut up and never talk to humans again for some reason.
Say what you want, but that interpretation of that verse is completely laughable if you have even a rudimentary knowledge of how the books of what our modern Bible came to be.
Yeah they don’t know what to do with that or with the Angle of YHWH (LORD). The trinity has its roots even in ancient Judaism. In fact the Jewish teaching of the Two Powers in Heaven was prominent in Judaism until Jesus. The Jewish leaders outlawed it after Jesus since it supported what he said and the Trinitarian view
What is laughable is you would use that to then justify your belief that 1800 years later God decided to give further revelation to a polygamist cult leader. What’s even more laughable is that you would then us that to believe said cult leader found some gold tables and urim and thummim from the OT to translate the Book of Mormon. All the while not being able to produce the tablets because they were taken back up to heaven and only 3 others, who were the polygamist cult leaders family, claim to have seen them.
You know this story line is similar to how the false religion of Islam was founded too. Maybe there is something demonic about such types of special revelation that is designed by the enemy to deceive and lead astray. Paul always said to watch for false teachers
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
Galatians 1:8
Why do you think Paul said that? Didn’t Joseph Smith get a “restored” gospel from an angle? A gospel that was different than what Paul gave and was historically understood? Sounds like that angle should be accursed
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It's the same Gospel as preached by Jesus Christ and his apostles and as understood by the Early Church, until several hundreds of years later when everything was "re-interpreted" to form the basis of the Church of Rome. Founded on the same scriptures they had back then.
The Early Church believed things very differently than how things became some 400 years later.
When essentially all Christians who wouldn't get with obedience to the Church of Rome were hunted down and genocided.
Much like how the Constitution in our country is constantly being "re-interpreted" by various liberal or left wing judges to be very different from what the original writers understood, or in some cases just plain ignored.
Ok first your statement of “When essentially all Christians who wouldn't get with obedience to the Church of Rome were hunted down and genocided” is categorically false. There was the eastern church and Alexandrian and Antiochian theology grew up together. There was no genocide. The churches only split into east and west around 1100 based on the issue of the filioque. Additionally there was the Ethiopian, Coptic, and Oriental Orthodox Church. All of these broke from Rome over very minor and technical theological differences. None of these groups “genocided”. So you are mischaracterizing things.
Sorry but the Mormon gospel is not the gospel taught by Jesus Christ and his apostles and as understood by the Early Church. In fact it looks more like the Catholic faith and practice of faith +works than it does the gospel taught by Jesus Christ and his apostles and as understood by the Early Church. This can easily be shown by going and reading the writings of the early church prior to the 400s. There is zero, nada in any of it that sounds remotely like Mormon theology. Just like there the Bible shows nothing of the Mormon gospel, in fact it runs counter to what Paul wrote in Galatians and many other letters. This includes the apostolic fathers who are the generation right after the apostles who learned from the apostles. While the Catholic Church did go astray with its teachings after the first few councils, you are taking that bit of truth and warping it to try and fit your view.
What Joseph Smith taught and the gospel he supposedly received does not look anything like early Christianity. Nor were the biblical text corrupted as he says (we can prove this). The Mormon gospel is faith plus works, the thing the Catholics did and to which you admitted went wrong
I did not write what is below, but it further shows how the Mormon gospel is faith+works and not biblical:
First of all, the Book of Mormons says,
“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins” (The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37). (All underlines in these quotes have been added for emphasis.)
This is reasonable since God does not want us to sin against him, and we cannot ignore God’s warnings against sin.
Second, the Book of Mormon says, “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).
Now, this is where we run into a problem. According to the gospel of Mormonism, we have to ask what it means to be “saved after all we can do?” How much must we do in order to become saved? The representatives of the Mormon Church give us the answer.
“On the same basis men cannot be saved in their sins (Alma 11:37); the Lord has ordained the laws by which salvation and all good things come, and until obedience prepares the way, the promised blessings are withheld (D&C 88:21-24; 130:20-21; 132:5.). Men can no more be saved without obedience than they can be healed without faith. All things operate by law; blessings result from obedience to law and are withheld when there is no obedience” (BYU Professor Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the New Testament, p.222).
The 13th President of the Mormon Church, Ezra Taft Benson, said, “What is meant by ‘after all we can do’? ‘After all we can do’ includes extending our best effort. ‘After all we can do’ includes living His commandments. ‘After all we can do’ includes loving our fellowmenand praying for those who regard us as their adversary. ‘After all we can do’ means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and giving ‘succor [to] those who stand in need of [our] succor’ (Mosiah 4:15)-remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God’s children, we do unto Him (see Matthew 25:34-40; D&C 42:38). ‘After all we can do’ means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealingsand treating others the way we would want to be treated” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354. Brackets in original).
“But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi, when he said: For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, [but mark you this condition,] after all we can do” (Harold B. Lee, Conference Reports, April 1956, p.111. Brackets and italics in original).
So, according to the gospel of Mormonism to be “saved after all we can do” means to extend your best effort, live his commandments, love fellow men, pray for adversaries, cloth the naked, feed the hungry, visit the sick, lead chaste, clean lives, and be honest.
This is a tall order, but does it really mean that you have to do all these things and others to be saved in Mormonism? Sure it does. But, is it possible for Mormons to do all of this? According to the Book of Mormon, it is.
“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them” (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 3:7).
Okay, so the Mormon has to keep the commandments to be saved and has no excuse for not doing them. In other words, Mormonism teaches that the Mormon must keep all the commandments all the time to be saved. But that isn’t all. The Mormon must also deny himself of all ungodliness in order for God’s grace to be sufficient.
“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God” (The Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:32).
Notice that God’s grace is sufficient for you after you deny yourself of all ungodliness. That is a tremendously tall order–that is impossible. Who do you know, including yourself, who has denied himself of all ungodliness? Not most ungodliness, not some ungodliness, ALL! Remember, you must “deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you.” This is a hopelessly impossible command. No one can deny himself of all ungodliness. But, just in case you believe you can deny yourself of all ungodliness, then that means you aren’t sinning anymore. But, according to the Bible, if you say you aren’t sinning anymore, then you are self-deceived. 1 John 1:8 says, “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
This is a difficult teaching. But there’s more. In Mormonism, repentance from sin must be complete and permanent. The Fourth President of the Mormon Church, Wilford Woodruff, said…
“And what is repentance? The forsaking of sin. The man who repents, if he be a swearer, swears no more; or a thief, steal no more; he turns away from all former sins and commits them no more. It is not repentance to say, I repent today, and then steal tomorrow; that is the repentance of the world, which is displeasing in the sight of God” (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72).
Okay, so true repentance means that you don’t commit any of the sins that you have repented of. What would happen if you did commit one of the sins from which you repented? What does Mormonism have to say about that?
“The miracle of forgiveness is available to all of those who turn from their evil doings and return no more, because the Lord has said in a revelation to us in our day: ‘Go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth [meaning again] shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God’ (D&C 82:7). Have that in mind, all of you who may be troubled with a burden of sin” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p.120. Harold B. Lee was the 11th President of the LDS Church. Brackets in original.)
“Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p.253).
“20. In order to remain forgiven we must never commit the sin again” (Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).
So, in the Mormon view of repentance, once you have repented of the sin, if you commit it again, all of your former sins return to you. In other words, you have to be perfect. Is this a gospel of good news or of impossible expectations?
Synopsis of Salvation According to LDS Sources
- You cannot be saved in your sins, (The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37).
- By grace you are saved, after all you can do, (2 Nephi 25:23).
- You must give your best, (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354.)
- You must deny yourselves of all ungodliness, (Moroni 10:32).
- Turn from all former sins and commit them no more, (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72).
- If you commit any past sin again, the former sins return, (D&C 82:7).
- Therefore, in order to remain forgiven you must never commit the sin again, (Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).
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Negative!!
But I will play...What is the Name they are referring too?
What is the Name of the Father?
What is the Name of the Son?
What is the Name of the Holy ghost?
You can't do that.
Not supposed to mix the Old with the New.
The New is the Real Word, the Old is just there for reference and not supposed to be literal.
It's like the relationship between a cell phone the old hand crank wall phone.
The old Testament is there to Bring us to Christ.... Follow the Blood. Adam. What does it represent? His Sin is passed to every man when they are Conceived ( Spare me).
Still looking for scripture based Discussions. Should be easy for the Scholars
Want to address my original post below? Or how about anything that came two pages prior
Let me preface this with the fact I am not a Catholic, but a Bible believing Christian.
He is probably a Oneness Pentecostal or Apostolic. Either way his heresy is modalism and was condemned at Nicaea in 325 and outright rejected at Constantinople in 381. There are several wrong things have been said so here we go:
First, you are appealing to the fallacy of specificity. Yes the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible, but you know what other word doesn’t? Monotheism. Does that mean that the Christian faith isn’t monotheistic? Absolutely not. What it means is we sometimes give categorical names to theological truths we see in scripture.
Next Nicaea was not called to establish the doctrine of the Trinity, as it has its roots in ancient Judaism and the New Testament. Even the patristic fathers spoke of the Trinity. The counsel was called to address heresies that had popped up, mainly Arianism but also this heresy of modalism. The Nicene Creed was produced to officially codify into writing the long held belief of the Trinity. Ask yourself why would non-trinitarian heresies exist prior to Nicaea if the Trinity was invented at Nicaea? The fact is it goes all the way back to Jesus and had its roots in the Jewish understanding of the “Two powers in heaven” doctrine (go read up on that). Example Gen 19:24 “YHWH God rains down fire from YHWH out of heaven”
This leads to the next point you bring up, the name of Jesus. God already was named in the Old Testament and his name is YHWH (I am that I am). Since I am guessing you are a KJV only person too, everywhere in the OT where it says LORD in all capitals, that is be used in Hebrew it is the Devine name YHWH.
What’s funny is Jesus in Hebrew is actually Yeshua (יֵשׁוּעַ) or sometimes Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ) which literally means YHWH is salvation. So sorry Jesus isn’t somehow the revealed name of God.
Next let’s touch on some trinitarian Bible verses. Aside from the aforementioned great commission verse in Matthew 28:19, here are some more.
2 Corinthians 13:14. This verse includes a blessing that mentions the "grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit," again explicitly mentioning all three persons.
John 1:1-5 This passage describes Jesus as the Word, stating that "the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This verse emphasizes Jesus's divine nature and his co-equality with the Father
John 10:30 Jesus declares, "I and the Father are one," further reinforcing the unity of the Godhead and the divine nature of Jesus
Hebrews 1:1-4 This passage emphasizes the supremacy of Jesus, who is the "bright reflection of God's glory and the exact representation of his being
1 Corinthians 8:6 this says there “one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.” showing the diversity and unique personhood in the Godhead
And the list goes on and on
Old Testament= Spirit (of God)
New Testament = The Body (that the Spirit of GOD moved into when he was born)
Antiochus Epiphanes is not the antichrist of the last days. He was AN antichrist, but not the last. The last antichrist will be revealed shortly.
And where are you getting this from? I do not see this anywhere in scripture
The name was Secret in the old testament.. Whispered to the High Priest before his Death to the next in line and so on... About 400 years before Jesus was Born the High Priest Fell off the wall when he heard the Ark was Captured. No name
Judges 13:17-19
King James Version
17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
I believe it's a perspective ... not written anywhere.
In the Old Testament man (in general) interacted with the Spirit of God ... energy, angels ...
In the New Testament man (again, in general) interacted with and became part of the Body of God ... The Jebus ... the spirit is in us all ...
But I could easily be wrong.
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Scripture interprets scripture.You can't do that.
Not supposed to mix the Old with the New.
The New is the Real Word, the Old is just there for reference and not supposed to be literal.
It's like the relationship between a cell phone the old hand crank wall phone.
Sorry but this is wrong and it can be shown easily. The one true God is named in the OT and his name is YHWH. The angle of the LORD is actually the angle of YHWH (we render it as LORD in English)
Hmm interesting that someone would make a theological claim that is not anywhere in scripture and call it a perspective, yet aggressively deny the trinity which is a theological term that came about to convey the truths we see in scripture. You are not being theologically consistent
In addition to God’s name being YHWH, the KJV version you used renders that word secret incorrectly . פִּלְאִי The Hebrew word is actually rendered wonderful, incomprehensible, extraordinary.
I had to amend my original post because I left out the part about the spirit living permanently in everyone. Not totally clear if this is entirely accurate, I've had it explained to me multiple ways that do not always agree.
I am not a theologian nor have I accepted the Jebus as my savior or that everything was created by god. I do not perceive solid consistency when I read the bible and I have a hard time following the contradictory logic some people use to explain it.
Full disclosure, I also haven't accepted everything was created by a big bang.
I'm waiting for one team or the other to produce a proof.
No
Genesis 18 and 19
And of course lets not forget what happened to Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego.
I would reference the book chapter and verse but....we all have read ALL the scriptures...right?
Some inconvenient truth:
Thank you for your truth and candor. What I will say is that you need to stop trying to read especially the OT as a modern and read it in its ancient context. Often we think there is contradiction because we do not know the original languages and do not understand the literary genre of biblical narrative.
Where do you see people? Not enough material to make 3 people... where are they? Bible says we are Made in the Image of God? How is that?
There is only 1 Spirit (God) and 1 Flesh Jesus Christ (Fits the One body 1 spirit as a Normal Man and not this new Math)
What does the 15th Verse say?
Gen 1:1 In the Beginning God Created the Heavens and Earth
He has been given all sorts of names by man... What does the bible say about it? Mathew says to call him Jesus
Acts 20:28
King James Version
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.How did God Purchase The Church? If God didnt have a body then how did he Purchase it with His Own Blood?
Deuteronomy 6:4-9
King James Version
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
So which God do we Pray too and how do we know the others are jealous?
You do know Jesus in Hebrew is actually Yeshua (יֵשׁוּעַ) or sometimes Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ) which literally means YHWH is salvation. So sorry Jesus isn’t somehow the revealed name of God.
You need to go back and read what was previously posted. Your statement about personhood shows that you do not understand the trinity. There is one divine nature/substance of God, in three co-equal, co-eternal persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons share one essence or nature/substance but are distinct in their roles and relationships.
These roles and relationships are what we see directly in the scriptures.
The Father Initiates and directs the plan of salvation, sends the Son and the Holy Spirit, is the source of all things
The Son (Jesus) becomes incarnate and redeems humanity through his life, death, and resurrection, is the Word of God and the means by which creation was made, and Intercedes for humanity.
The Holy Spirit empowers believers to live according to God's will, convicts, teaches, and leads, and sanctifies and dwells within believers.
Additionally in the scriptures we see each person of the trinity is individually given the honors, attributes, names, deeds and seat of God.
Now we as limited humans do not fully understand how this works. We in no way could fully understand how the inner workings of the eternal relationship of the God head. It is rather arrogant to assume that you could fully understand God in that way. There is no logical contradiction that exists and we see the tenants of the Trinity in scripture, so we embrace the mystery
There is ONE Gospel.
ONE church.
And ONE Savior/Messiah/God.
I will say it again.
I am glad Jesus got to me before the Baptists and pentecostals did.
"Wait....i thought you were a Baptist? Didn't you say you grew up in a pentecostal church?"
Indeed, and I don't follow men, or movements, or dogma.
ONE church.
And ONE Savior/Messiah/God.
I will say it again.
I am glad Jesus got to me before the Baptists and pentecostals did.
"Wait....i thought you were a Baptist? Didn't you say you grew up in a pentecostal church?"
Indeed, and I don't follow men, or movements, or dogma.
I said he has many Names and Titles given to him.. I didnt respond to the Yeshua or YHVH as you might be wrong on the interpretation but again... Doesnt mean anything to the Discussion unless it does?D
Isaiah 44:23-25
King James Version
23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the Lord hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Pretty plain to me....Where was Jesus and the Holy Ghost? Remember there wasnt a body prepared yet.
and the HOLY GHOST Overshadowed Mary and she Conceived.... The Father is the Holy Ghost so we can Drop the Spirit part now because GOD is a Spirit and he alone rules...
So again Where is the Father?
First the discussion of the name is very important. People like to appeal to names for their argument. You yourself did this saying Jesus is the revealed name of God that was somehow kept secret as you mentioned Judges (again the Hebrew word there is not secret as the KJV says, the Hebrew word mean wonderful, so now there was not some name of God held in secret). It is an indisputable Hebrew linguistic fact that the name of the God of Israel in the OT is YHWH (no it’s not YHVH as there is no V sound in ancient Hebrew, V’s are only in modern Hebrew. A minor point but illustrates an unfamiliarity with the original Hebrew) Also it is an indisputable linguistic fact that Jesus means YHWH saves. You can’t make an appeal to some kind of linguistic argument about the name of God, then just ignore it when it has been refuted. God has a name in the OT, it is YHWH and it is made very clear because he is set up as superior to the other gods of the nations in the OT. Also there is zero linguistic evidence that God’s name was held in secret. The KJV is wrong there in Judges and does not translate the Hebrew correctly. Also everywhere in the KJV it says all capital LORD, that means the Hebrew is YHWH the divine name
Second your selection and interpretation of the passage of Isaiah is cherry picked, incorrect, and ignores numerous other passages. But that is common in false teaching, pulling one verse completely out of context and using it to try and justify your theological position. This is eisegesis and a perversion of the text
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Further let’s address your claims about the Spirit being the Father or his force. First of all, the Holy Spirit is a person, not a force. Not power. John 15:26–27says, “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.” This is important to grasp. Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit is a he. “He” is a personal pronoun. The Holy Spirit is a person. He also does something in this verse that only persons can do. He testifies. When was the last time a power source like electricity or gravity testified?
Acts 13:2 says, “While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.’“ Did you notice what that said? According to this passage, the Holy Spirit speaks. He talks. He says something and gives instructions for what he wants to be done with Saul and with Barnabas.
In 1 Corinthians 2:10–11, it tells us, “For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.” The Holy Spirit knows things. Did you notice that? He has a mind.
Ephesians 4:30. “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” This passage tells us that the Holy Spirit can be grieved, which is an emotion. So, the Holy Spirit has emotions.
1 Corinthians 12:11. “But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.” Now, this term for “will” is the Greek term “boulomai.” It’s only used of persons in the entire New Testament, and, interestingly enough, in Matthew 11:27, it tells us that Jesus has a “boulomai,” a will, and in Hebrews 6:17, it tells us that the Father has a “boulomai.” The Father has a will.
It’s clear from these verses that the Holy spirit is described as a person, not as an impersonal force. But Scripture has more to say about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Not only is the Holy Spirit a person, but we learn something important from his abilities. According to Scripture, the Holy Spirit has the attributes of God. Romans 8:2: “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.” The Spirit is a Spirit of life. Only God is the giver of spiritual life, abundant life, eternal life. That comes from God, and the Spirit is said to be a Spirit of life.
Isaiah 40:13–14. “Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, or as His counselor has informed Him? With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding? And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge and informed Him of the way of understanding?” According to this passage, the Holy Spirit is omniscient, all-knowing, just like the Father and the Son.
Psalm 139:7–8. “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.” The Holy Spirit, according to the psalmist, is omnipresent. He’s everywhere at once. The psalmist cannot escape the Spirit no matter where he goes.
Nehemiah 9:20 says, “You gave your good Spirit to instruct them.” And Psalm 143:10 says, “Teach me to do Your will, for You are my God; let your good Spirit lead me on level ground.” According to these two passages, the Holy Spirit is good. Now, Jesus had something specific to say about this in Mark 10:18. “Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’” So, according to Jesus, only God is good. The Spirit is called “good.” Thus, the Spirit is God.
In Hebrews 9:14, we read, “How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” The Holy Spirit is said to be eternal. Now, nothing is eternal except for God.
In 1 Samuel 2:2, we read, “There is no one holy like the Lord, indeed, there is no one besides You.” The Holy Spirit is often described as being holy. This is one important attribute of God that is given to the Spirit—that he is holy. Now, “holiness” means God is entirely set apart. He’s distinct from his creation. It’s human sin that actually separates us from God because he is holy. The descriptor most often given to the Spirit is “holy.” This description of holiness sets the Spirit apart and signifies his divine nature.
In John 14:16–17, Jesus says, “I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth.” The Holy Spirit is and only speaks truth, just like Jesus—who is the way, the truth, and the life—and just like the Father—who cannot lie, according to Hebrews 6:18. So, the Spirit is truth.
Not only is the Spirit described as a person who shares in the attributes of God, but the Spirit is also identified with God and specifically called God by the New Testament writers. The Holy Spirit is identified and called “God” in multiple places throughout the New Testament. 2 Peter 1:21 says, “For no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” Notice that the Holy Spirit is identified with God. It is the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who gave the authors of the Bible the words of God.
2 Corinthians 3:17–18 says, “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.” Multiple times in this passage, the Holy Spirit is called “the Lord.” In the Septuagint, which was translated by Jewish scholars even before the time of Jesus, the word “Yahweh,” which is the name God used of himself with Moses at the burning bush, was translated with the Greek word “kyrios.” The New Testament writers identified Jesus as “kyrios” in multiple places, but in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, the word “kyrios” is used of the Holy Spirit. This signifies that the Holy Spirit is Lord, is “kyrios,” is Yahweh, is God.
1 Corinthians 3:16. “Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” Did you notice this says that the Spirit is God? It defined the Spirit as God. The Spirit indwells you. God is in you. “Spirit” is defined as “God.”
Now, the most clear passage where the Spirit is called God comes from Acts 5:3–5. Ananias and Sapphira come and they lie to the church about how much they’re giving. They say, “We’ve sold everything, and we’re giving it all to you.” But they were keeping a portion back for themselves. So, Acts 5:3–5 tells us this: “But Peter said, ‘Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” You see, the Holy Spirit is called “God” by Peter in this passage. Peter said that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit and thus lied to God. Peter equates the Spirit with God himself. This is probably the clearest passage in Scripture where the Holy Spirit is identified as God.
So, let’s sum it all up. The Holy Spirit is described as a person, a “he.” He’s complete with a mind, a will, emotions, and communication abilities. He’s also described as having the attributes of God: life in himself, omniscience, omnipresence, goodness, eternity, holiness, and truth. Some passages identify the Spirit with God, and one specifically calls him “God.” From the brief list of verses that we’ve investigated, it’s clear that Scripture teaches the Holy Spirit is God. He’s not merely the force or power of God. He is a person distinct from the Father and the Son who exhibits the attributes of God and is called “God.”
seems in context to me... I have narrowed this down for you already... Name is Important if not then You Think Trump Doesnt mean anything? Or Heinze Ketchup or Gates and so on...
We have come to the discussion that the Holy Ghost is the Father so now we have a Spirit and a Body (Jesus) which happens to make a Person (unless you use new math).
Now ask a Jew if there are more than one God and see what he says? He will Quote Dued 6:4 Hear O Israel the Lord our God is One. Pretty simple? and right on point no?
Are you stating that Yeshua or Yahweh is the Name of Jesus or ? Revelations says there was One Throne and One that sat upon it... Where is everyone?
Old Testament is the New Testament concealed the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
The helper Is Called the Holy Ghost in the New Testament. The Holy Ghost will discern other spirits and Believe it or not he fills you with it.
Yes the Holy Ghost is God and the Father and the Son wrapped up in one package called Jesus. Holty Ghost Giving Guidance
Negative again.. God Talked through a whirlwind and a donkey... All hail Whirlwinds and Donkeys? I think not.
Back up to ACTS 2:36-39
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Setting you Free from Sin and Death.
Thats because the Spirit (back to 1 and 1) is God and that God was in Jesus Christ
First yea names are import and you fail to realize that your assessment of names and how they relate in the NT and OT is flawed. You did not address one thing that was said above regarding that.
Incorrect the Spirit is a different person from the Father but the same God, read my post above and the litany of scriptural references. Second your statement about asking a Jew if there is 3 Gods shows you do not understand what the trinity is saying (again go read what was posted before). There is one God in 3 persons, not three gods.
You Continue to ignore and sidestep the claims that are made in scripture and what I said above. Just restating your view over mine is not interacting with what was said, does not refute what was said, and in no way address what was said. In order to do that, you must say why what I said was false. For example you do not even try to address the linguistic evidence that shows the Holy Spirt is addressed as a unique person and is given attributes of a unique person. All you do is restate the same heretical trope that all oneness Pentecostals do, and you all do it in the same way thinking if you just shout your talking points louder and ignore the scriptural references the other side says that that will somehow make you right. There are several massive errors with your position (as stated above) and you do not address them, you just shout louder your talking points.
You obviously do not understand how discourse works and are not interested in seeking truth. At this point it is throwing pearls before swine
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Reconcile this
John 10:30-33
King James Version
30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
The Jews Seen it.
I have addressed it with Scripture. Agian the Holy Ghost overshaddowed Mary and she Conceived (which by chance makes him the Father) So God is Holy so that makes God the HolyGhost (which again makes him the Father)
When you seen me (Jesus said) you have seen the Father , how is it (insert disbelief (which I am seeing in this discussion))
Now do you understand the importance of the Name? (only a part of the discussion) and Baptism and the name and the importance of the Blood (which is why and how the blood works through the death of Jesus but not only that but his birth also)
The Blood Comes from the Father .....Hello? you are trying to mess up one of Gods Greatest works? If the Blood Comes from the Father and the Father which is the Holy ghost!!! The Blood is pure from Jesus and Baptism works through the Name of Jesus and now you have been buried with Christ (God).
So this is Vitally important for the washing of Sins.
So where is the redemption in your story?
Matt 3:17
Mark 1:11
But.....i am sure, somehow, that is ignored or twisted by modalists as well.
Mark 1:11
But.....i am sure, somehow, that is ignored or twisted by modalists as well.
Jesus was the Law
He Paid it as he did the others in the old testament
Funny.. I havnt Twisted anything... Posted scriptures to back it up.
Yes A Spirit Spoke.
Ok I will try and make this as easy as possible.
Old testament = God in the Spirit
New Testament = God (made a Body for his Spirit ^^^ above^^^ )
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
.
Where are the Jews in this understanding? They belive in 3 people ?
Ephesians 4:4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Cant Argue with God can you?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
There you go.... I wouldnt argue too much with God and this One Body and One Spirit....Its a losing battle to begin with
Ephesians 4:4
King James Version
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;Cant Argue with God can you?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
There you go.... I wouldnt argue too much with God and this One Body and One Spirit....Its a losing battle to begin with
