It seems that there is some new stuff out there, does anybody have recommendations new or old on scales or techniques
Powder scale recommendations, Newbie here
- Thread starter Boatninja
- Start date
If you dont know what youre after then I agree, an rcbs chargemaster for 200-250 is a fine piece of equipment to get.
If you are not overly interested in precision, then there are a number of reloading scales that will work fine.
If you're interested in precision, get the A&D FX-120i. You can get the reloading version from the same folks that sell the auto throw/trickler for under $500.
If you're interested in precision, get the A&D FX-120i. You can get the reloading version from the same folks that sell the auto throw/trickler for under $500.
I have a chargemaster lite. Which I leave plugged in overnight the zero will sometimes change as much as .2, worries me since I am chasing precision. Hard in confidence. True I don’t know what I want but I can afford to pay for confidence. With suggestions from you others I can research specific scales for something new. And my chargemaster will also soon be for sale.
It seems there are new ones on the market and I guess I should have put that on my post.
I wouldn’t let a little overnight drift bother you, could be caused by your supplied power fluctuating or your homes conditions and not the scale.
Just tare the scale and see if the check weight is correct. If not calibrate and if it reads correct then you know that’s its reading correct.
Just tare the scale and see if the check weight is correct. If not calibrate and if it reads correct then you know that’s its reading correct.
I went from a 40-year-old beam scale to the A&D FX-120i. The 120i does drift - over a period of days, and by maybe 1-2 milligrams (.02-.04 grains). But, as @spife7980 notes, I have found that "short-term" drift is caused by air currents (HVAC vent over table or cold-air current from window in front of table). The thing I found which really surprised me was how much effect vibration from the washing machine way at the other end of the house has on the scale. No reloading while it's running! I can't speak to power fluctuations because ours is rock-solid-steady except during storms.
With mine, I have to cover up the vent in my reloading room while weighing
By the way, the vent is in the floor, so its air currents are rising and wrapping around the bench. This goes to show you the precision of this scale if it can pick that up.I went through a number of scales before finally biting the bullet and getting the A&D FX-120i. It is a magnetic scale which is much more accurate than resistance/arm scales, and it's a lot quicker to settle. Don't make the mistake I did by buying more standard scales. You won't be sorry.
Controlled environment as best you can. Add a Humidifier to help eliminate static. Get rid of as much plastic as you can. Glass and aluminum are much better at eliminating static. Also know the difference in scales, they work differently.
That video is a good representation. The A&D FX120i really is a great value when you factor in BOTH the tangible and non-tangible things like time not wasted waiting for the scale to settle. Significantly less frustration from the scale NOT DRIFTING around 20-30 rounds into your reloading session. Confidence in your loads because you know all your charges are within +/- one kernel of powder (not +/- in the tenths). The extra resolution of the Sartorius Entris would just add more frustration to my anal retention of trying to get everything as close to the same as possible. Plus it costs more.
If you already have a manual powder thrower, combined with the latest AutoTrickler, the A&D scale setup is really a nice way to go all things considered (including cost).
My history:
Everything has always been plugged into a line conditioner. No cell phone close. No HVAC running. Minimal, if any, fluorescent lighting.
I started with the PACT scale/dispenser combo. Wanted more accuracy, added the Acculab VIC-123 to weigh my charges a second time. Got frustrated with the VIC drifting around, sold it. Bought the A&D, loved it in comparison. Realized just how much variation there was in my charges previously. Leased a Gen II Prometheus, really love that thing. I mostly use Varget & 4831SC. Use the A&D when setting up the Prometheus for different charges.
Added the Bluetooth AutoTrickler to my A&D so I don’t have to change up the Prometheus when I want to throw just a few charges of something else. I have a Harrell’s powder thrower from my 6PPC days that I’ll set to throw a couple tenths short. The Harrell’s combined with the A&D/AutoTrickler makes it a pretty fast/accurate powder dispensing setup.
The PACT is a paper weight/dust catcher.
With mid-sized powders (e.g. where each kernel weight roughly .02 grains), it's more like +/- .5 kernels. I match those powders to exactly the load I'm looking for, which means you're getting +/- .01 gr.
On larger powders, the kernels weigh more than .02 gr, so trying to hit an exact # is a fools errand (unless you cut powder, which I'm not going to do). I pick two values and if I hit either one then I'm good. For example, my 300 PRC load is 71.8 gr of RL26. If I get 71.8 or 71.82, then I'm good.
Exactly.
When I’m loading for a match, I set out two loading blocks. In your case, one block would have all the 71.8 charges and the other block would have all the 71.82’s. They go in different Ammo boxes. My Dasher loads are half that size. Even so, I know I can’t shoot the difference between .02 gr loads but, it’s simple to do & one less thing to wonder about when looking at my targets. I shoot Benchrest so, group size matters.
Sorry OP, I digress.
That's a good point. The FX-120i does NOT come with a calibration weight - and certified weights are not cheap. My ASTM Class 1 100-gram weight was over $90 shipped from scalesoutlet.com. Can you get cheaper weights? Yes. But if you have a scale capable of 1 milligram accuracy, why would I want a cheap calibration weight? To me, that's like paying four figures for a scope and mounting it in $50 rings. The calibration weight is a one-time expense, and I like knowing the weights my scale provides are accurate.
Interestingly, my Lyman check weights that I used with my beam scale were a few tenths of a grain off when weighed on the calibrated -120i.
Because I don’t care if it’s perfect for nasa. I just want it to be consistent and close enough to function. And for that a 10 buck weight is fine.
Don’t get me wrong here, I did shell out the money for the expensive, certified 100 gr. calibration weight. I had a pharmacist at work weigh it on the hospitals certified & calibrated pharmacy scale. Came back 99.99...grams. She ran it out to some 4 or 5 digit resolution as I recall.
Then I saw a video somewhere, the guy bought a Chinese certified check weight for like $20 off EBay I think. Claims to have had it checked out and came back very close to 100 grams as well. Got me thinking ?...
Somewhat rhetorical question here:
For our reloading purposes, as long as your using the same calibration weight each time, developed your loads using the same scale...how much does it really matter if your calibration weight is off .01 grams? So you’re actually shooting 33.31 grains of Varget in your Dasher instead of 33.32 you think you’re shooting. You developed the load with your scale calibrated with the same weight each time. Isn’t being consistent more important (as long as your calibration weight is close to spec, ie, within a hundredth or two. Not off by tenths)? I’m assuming you didn’t develop a max pressure load here with another setup and then load it here to the same level untested. That would be stupid.
Remember, I bought the expensive Troemner calibration weight (NASA) ?
-Rick
Then I saw a video somewhere, the guy bought a Chinese certified check weight for like $20 off EBay I think. Claims to have had it checked out and came back very close to 100 grams as well. Got me thinking ?...
Somewhat rhetorical question here:
For our reloading purposes, as long as your using the same calibration weight each time, developed your loads using the same scale...how much does it really matter if your calibration weight is off .01 grams? So you’re actually shooting 33.31 grains of Varget in your Dasher instead of 33.32 you think you’re shooting. You developed the load with your scale calibrated with the same weight each time. Isn’t being consistent more important (as long as your calibration weight is close to spec, ie, within a hundredth or two. Not off by tenths)? I’m assuming you didn’t develop a max pressure load here with another setup and then load it here to the same level untested. That would be stupid.
Remember, I bought the expensive Troemner calibration weight (NASA) ?
-Rick
Honestly, it doesn't unless you lose the weight. If you're calibrating the same every time, then you'll get consistent results. I have an expensive 50g calibration weight and one that came in a relatively inexpensive set. They weigh in identically - though it doesn't mean that all cheap weights will weigh in the same.
^^^ Agree. It is not completely necessary to have an expensive, certified, etc. calibration weight. Stepping back a bit, do we not build OCW loads in order to have accurate handloads with some tolerance to charge weight?
For me personally, it made sense to make the one-time investment in the expensive weight. I still use the quality tools my father used when I was a kid. I don't consider myself terribly OCD-afflicted any more than anyone who plays our game, but - and this is my view which I don't insist anyone share - if I invest in a device with 0.001-gram (milligram) accuracy, I want to take best advantage of the capability that I can.
The rifle, the cartridge, the target - none of them know or care, and, as has been rightfully pointed out, consistency is the primary priority. We all just have to be aware that Billy Bob's super-duper load may be have a consistent round-to-round weight, but his stated weight may not be accurate.
Heh. If we who do this rifle silliness are not somewhat obsessive, would we be contributing to this thread? Happy Thanksgiving y'all.
For me personally, it made sense to make the one-time investment in the expensive weight. I still use the quality tools my father used when I was a kid. I don't consider myself terribly OCD-afflicted any more than anyone who plays our game, but - and this is my view which I don't insist anyone share - if I invest in a device with 0.001-gram (milligram) accuracy, I want to take best advantage of the capability that I can.
The rifle, the cartridge, the target - none of them know or care, and, as has been rightfully pointed out, consistency is the primary priority. We all just have to be aware that Billy Bob's super-duper load may be have a consistent round-to-round weight, but his stated weight may not be accurate.
Heh. If we who do this rifle silliness are not somewhat obsessive, would we be contributing to this thread? Happy Thanksgiving y'all.
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