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Going to try these first lot less labor.
PRS Talk PRS DIY barricades (pics encouraged)
- Thread starter Krazy Korean
- Start date
Going to try these first lot less labor.
Started out with this. Using a metal target stand. Way too wobbly to be of any use
So, I rebuilt to this. Unfortunately the interior props are too small to fit a rifle with a scope. And the top is too tall for a standard sized bench. But at least it works
So, I rebuilt to this. Unfortunately the interior props are too small to fit a rifle with a scope. And the top is too tall for a standard sized bench. But at least it works
I used some i beams and just had them stick out the front so it’s entirely clear in the shooters side and it serves as a counter balance as well so it doesn’t tilt back towards the shooter without putting some intentional effort into doing so. One little cross brace between the two stiffened it up and took any wobble out.
Rocks are just on it for the hell of it, they don’t do anything
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Anyone made a freestanding stair stringer out of wood? Interested in hearing how sturdy it was and ideas for legs.
A bunch of shitty gimic rimfire props is not what this sport needs. In fact, all that garbage needs to go. Shit like swinging platforms and shooting off ropes/straps is absolute retardation.
Good stable props with smaller targets, move movement, or faster par times is how you become a better shooter. Not this shit that is not even close to practical.
Well for once I tend to agree DBD. Now I can’t say enough for the fellows who helped through a stage with a “sailboat.” And I realize that this is a game, not real life. But at least the solid props and movement are more realistic. Being in the Infantry, I know a little, about fire and movement.
So, my point, no one would willingly use a rest that was not stable. Most would either find one or do their best to get in a stable, unsupported position such as sitting or prone.
Finally going back to my Second Sentence. Appreciation for match legal help, and I may also know just a little about fire and movement and supports, But I know one HELL of a LOT about Sailboats and all craft moving on the water. And those movements are neither stead or consistent. Imagine lining up a shot on the deck of AnnaEleise in these moderate seas. Then look at Stars and Stripes at Fremantle on Gage Roads back in 1987
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Well, while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I’m glad it isn’t shared by many folks. We are a small, out of the way club, with no close lodging and one restaurant. That said, the turnout continues to grow with some folks traveling many hours to sample our gimmicky circus, often repeatedly. Not shabby for a one day event, with as much fun and camaraderie as we can muster. It’s not for everyone I guess, as we aren’t training to be under fire, or assaulting a well defended facility, we’re playing a game.
That game has now spread to a sister facility in Suffolk Va. so I guess some folks appreciate a challenge.
Take care
I can see your point, and my statements were in no way meant to degrade the folks who are doing their best to get by. I was trying to say that some of the props being used are intentionally unsteady, adding difficulty to a difficult sport, that also, in no way reflects a shooting situation. These were my thoughts.
So, If I have offended, please accept my apology.
That’s ok, sorry if I get a bit salty. Of those 50 stages/pics I can’t lay claim to any of the cool stuff, in fact I have to own that I have created a bunch of stinkers over the years (Warrens writing the course? Guess there will be some off hand and 4-P
). The day we ran the “urban prone” stage, you never heard such hell being raised, but all in good fun and we learned a bit!I get real defensive of the guys who haven’t just made unique props and courses of fire, but have had their stuff copied, received parts and source lists requested, etc. plus they have both been invited to created championship courses of fire and host at other venues. I’m proud to be associated with such hardworking folks who only want to grow and challenge their fellow shooters, which is a pretty thankless job. At the end of the day, every shooter engages from the same prop, faces the same challenge, and it requires the same skill sets to prevail. This IS shooting. Anyone who has ever cleaned a “boat” stage knows, it ain’t luck. It also ain’t benchrest.
How do the guys that win your matches do at the national finale? Go look up the scores. Not too hot.
They are gimmic stages that good shooters do not take serious, which is what I was trying to politely say earlier. Too many variables out of shooters control that give a massive advantage to those who shot those exact props at that exact venue. Kinda like dudes who setup the cof then compete in their own matches. Ironic.
When you look at boat stages for example, you do not see a correlation with the best shooters and the top boat shooter scores. It's random. In fact I have had high score on boat stages twice at national matches and my overall score was dogshit. It proves its a gimmic.
That shit is getting run out of centerfire and for good reason. It's poor stage design mostly by people who don't actually shoot matches. People need to be direct and honest with match directors instead of trying to not "rock the boat" ( see what I did there). Some people don't know any better but many are scared of confrontation.
The best matches tend to be put on by high level competitors at the national level. Might be worth seeking one or two out and see what their thoughts are.
They are gimmic stages that good shooters do not take serious, which is what I was trying to politely say earlier. Too many variables out of shooters control that give a massive advantage to those who shot those exact props at that exact venue. Kinda like dudes who setup the cof then compete in their own matches. Ironic.
When you look at boat stages for example, you do not see a correlation with the best shooters and the top boat shooter scores. It's random. In fact I have had high score on boat stages twice at national matches and my overall score was dogshit. It proves its a gimmic.
That shit is getting run out of centerfire and for good reason. It's poor stage design mostly by people who don't actually shoot matches. People need to be direct and honest with match directors instead of trying to not "rock the boat" ( see what I did there). Some people don't know any better but many are scared of confrontation.
The best matches tend to be put on by high level competitors at the national level. Might be worth seeking one or two out and see what their thoughts are.
I could address this point by point, but at this stage of the conversation it would simply be argumentative, your statement explains your firm mindset.
I hope the growing trends for more challenging barricades does not deter you from competing.
Give your shooters what they want. I’m personally not a fan of swinging stuff and such. You used to see a lot of that out this way. But it proved to not be popular around here in the long run.
And yea, it will add variability to scores. Which is why you won’t see it much at national level matches.
But, if your local shooters like or, so be it. Matches exist for the shooters. They will vote with their wallets if they don’t like your props.
If you get 50 shooters with 8 swinging props and 30 with less “gimmicky”, then swing away. (As long as the props aren’t causing people to launch rounds out of the impact area).
One of the most abrasive things in match organizing is the few voices of dissension, subtle implications of cheating, match proofing, etc. Of unfairness due to perceived access of a prop (many which require multiple people just to set-up), or of R.O.s or match organizers/course writers shooting their own events having some “advantage”.
Even worse when it comes from those who imply good intentions of growing the sport or numbers of shooters, at the cost of making all matches the same, boring barricades, yet they never once travel down to shoot the events.
As I’m concerned with getting tunnel vision in my opinions, I’ve reached out to a couple of other shooters to review the recent parts of this gent’s thread.
Here’s one reply:
“Well I’ve seen many people go shoot positional punisher matches that have unrealistic times for cof and targets and the winners are hitting less than 50% the match score.
But then everyone raves that that was fun even with most the stages being undoable.
Same thing the best shooters can adapt and shoot off of stable or wonky props it’s called being a well rounded shooter.
Before long everyone will want to shoot all the stages prone just to avoid props.
To each their own”
Even worse when it comes from those who imply good intentions of growing the sport or numbers of shooters, at the cost of making all matches the same, boring barricades, yet they never once travel down to shoot the events.
As I’m concerned with getting tunnel vision in my opinions, I’ve reached out to a couple of other shooters to review the recent parts of this gent’s thread.
Here’s one reply:
“Well I’ve seen many people go shoot positional punisher matches that have unrealistic times for cof and targets and the winners are hitting less than 50% the match score.
But then everyone raves that that was fun even with most the stages being undoable.
Same thing the best shooters can adapt and shoot off of stable or wonky props it’s called being a well rounded shooter.
Before long everyone will want to shoot all the stages prone just to avoid props.
To each their own”
Thats a pretty lazy and defensive position to take.
If you don't want people to question the integrity of the match, eliminate the possibility or appearance of it. This includes people who setup the COF, not also shooting the matches, taking trophies, ect. There is a MASSIVE advantage to having written and proofed a stage, so much so that its outlawed in center fire. Some MD's may shoot their matches at 1 days, but they don't score themselves. If you cannot understand WHY this is such a huge conflict of interest, you have no business running matches.
Growing the sport is not just about being fun, but also being fair and equitable. Just about every sport has standards. Oh this football field is 120 yards and this one is 80. The batters box at this stadium is 36" wide but at this one its only 12". There is MORE than enough latitude to change things up and keep them interesting, without having a bunch of unstable shitty props that are nothing but a gimmick and have zero to do with shooter ability or skill. When you need to have a 4 or 5 MOA target in order for someone to get a 50% hit chance, then your props are garbage.
There are hundreds of different props and variations than can and are used, and they are rock solid. This is not 2012 or some shitty NRL22 bullshit where you need to shoot off a bucket and a chair and ladder.
For example, Something like a cattle gate can be welded solid and concreted into the ground, and its still not going to be like shooting prone. Shooter skill will determine how stable someone can shoot off of it. Now take that same prop and let it swing free now you introduced unnecessary wobble and instability that even the best shooter will not be able to over come without something like rear tripod. Not saying rear tripod stages are bad , but there is no reason the prop needs to be wobbly/unstable.
We just had a 2 day national match last weekend. 2 out of 20 stages were prone. A few stages had a part of them as prone and part as positional so you had to setup, move and resetup the gun. Almost every stage was positional off a prop. Not one prop was unstable or wobbling, but it sure as hell was not like shooting prone/modified prone. Best shooters in the world still dropped 20 shots over 2 days, which is more than alot of matches.
I doubt you will even read this or pick up what I'm putting down, but if you want good shooters to come and help grow the sport in your area, instead of placating the same small group of not great shooters, it would be worth trying to emulate what the other high end matches are doing. That is where the sport is growing, that is where the money is (if there is any). People would be willing to drive very long distances for the chance at points, if they feel like they have a fair shake at winning the match. This means the gimmick shit that can blow your day, needs to go. Or not and keep doing the same shit in your own little rice bowl.
Let’s get back to props and barricades.
Tires are great to shoot off of but they do present a problem. When shooting off tires that had been in the sun for several years, a very nice and favorite vest as well as the pants I was wearing were covered with black worn rubber. They do get old and consideration should be given to replacing them.
(I know, at times we all get in the dirt and mud when shooting matches and getting down and dirty is fun, but covered in black junk, maybe not so much fun.)
Tires are great to shoot off of but they do present a problem. When shooting off tires that had been in the sun for several years, a very nice and favorite vest as well as the pants I was wearing were covered with black worn rubber. They do get old and consideration should be given to replacing them.
(I know, at times we all get in the dirt and mud when shooting matches and getting down and dirty is fun, but covered in black junk, maybe not so much fun.)
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MDs can just spray paint the exterior once a year... I have match clothes for a reason though
Designed this complex barricade this weekend, happy to share the CAD files with any serious shooters
Wanted something that didn't take up a bunch of room but that I could test out different bag combo's etc. Here's what I came up with. It incorporates a saw horse, the center and two tips of a tank trap, the top of a 55 gallon drum and the 2 bottom rungs of a pyramid. The tank trap tines and the barrel lid are removeable to give more room on the saw horse.
AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!! and while we are at it.......ban rear tripod!!!
game has become an equipment race....rear tripod....PUMP pillow, 3 bags, etc.....how about we test skill not how many gadgets I need.... agree 110%. smaller targets, more movement, shorter par times...PHUK trying to time a shot off a swinging sex chair!!!!
U know what would really make us all better shooters. Making one qualify to shoot a match. Qualifying round, put a bullet through the hole of a swinging 1/2 inch washer at 2000 yards. Make that shot and you will be considered good enough to participate. A thin piece of tape over the washer’s hole that is penetrated verifies a hit.
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