Re: Purchased a mil/mil Nightforce. I need help
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popeye089</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is most inexperienced people run right to ranging once they buy this stuff never understanding ranging with a reticle should be one of the last things you do, not the first.
It's 2010, get a range finder, ranging is sloppy, it's a legacy skill that takes hours of practice and requires you to maintain the skill in order to be proficient . The reticle does much more than just range. A skilled operator can look at a target first and be closer in less time than a novice with a mil reticle. You'd be better off walking around town estimating distances to objects everyday afterwards tapping it with a laser than thinking about mil ranging. </div></div>
With the risk of being castrated here, I have to disagree With you LL. Ranging is not sloppy if practiced. You are correct it is a perishable skill that has to be practiced. The problem is that some people are too lazy to become proficient at this valuable skill. Do we have LRFs? Of course....Are they accurate?........of course..... Can I look at something and judge distance accurately yes because of my expierence but.......LRFs are electronic, batteries die, they break sometimes but I can guarantee you my M3A, spotting scope, or even need be the 24 or 22s will always be handy. Yes not all can be or need to be skilled in this field craft but once you are it is an invaluable skill to have. And yes for all of you that want to rebuttal me, the reticle does do more than range, it is great because if you know your dope and practice hold off and become proficient in that skill, engagements of multiple targets at varying distances becomes a reality and your skills will be that much greater for mastering your equipment.......THOSE RETICLES JUST DON'T LOOK COOL PEOPLE!!!!!!!! LEARN TO USE THEM</div></div>
It absolutely is sloppy, how much Mil ranging do you do past 600m ?
Mil ranging is dependent on light conditions, target, angle to target, known size of target, a mistake in any of it can mean a huge miss, especially past 600m, where the danger space of a 7.62 is reduced. Not to mention ranging a moving man -- most just figure 36" hips to head and ranging full value targets, try it on a target that is only partially exposed.
Military guys have the benefit of maps, which tell them key points to help reference the range, and most are not mil ranging past 600m.
Batteries die... really news to me. If you have a mission you change them, if the batteries die I would blame you before the batteries. We're not using Rayovac batteries from the 1970's. Chances are of they die when you need them it's because you didn't replace them. Batteries are free in the military and there is no reason not to change them.
Now, you're laser will get broken, that is a reality. But again you have a map to note points in your AO to reference off of. The average US shooter has no map and unknown distance targets are truly unknown in many other ways.
Yes, you can become proficient, I spend hours behind a reticle everyday, and mil to within the nearest 100th of a mil, because really past 600 a 10th of a mil isn't going to cut it. When you'r e shooting inside there, minute of man, you can be off a whole lot and still get a solid kill without ever knowing your mil range was off.
I contend it sloppy, for too many reasons to list. </div></div>
To disect your argument standing piece by piece by piece, yes if not practiced, yes it can be sloppy very sloppy indeed didn't diagree with you as you can see from above.
"Mil ranging is dependent on light conditions, target, angle to target, known size of target, a mistake in any of it can mean a huge miss, especially past 600m, where the danger space of a 7.62 is reduced. Not to mention ranging a moving man -- most just figure 36" hips to head and ranging full value targets, try it on a target that is only partially exposed."
Agree with you completely but a any experienced military shooter should know you have more than an average man in your AO for ranging, signs vehicles, buildings, doorways, overpassses, pole, etc.... YOU CAN RANGE ANYTHING. When you get in any theater you should create a constants list and study it to become knowledgable of your AO. Not being a smartass but I am sure many here can vouch that that is SOP for many of us military guys.
"Military guys have the benefit of maps, which tell them key points to help reference the range, and most are not mil ranging past 600m."
I can agree epecially since most FOVs in my experiences in urban are maybe 600m at most because of the building skylines
"Batteries die... really news to me. If you have a mission you change them, if the batteries die I would blame you before the batteries. We're not using Rayovac batteries from the 1970's. Chances are of they die when you need them it's because you didn't replace them. Batteries are free in the military and there is no reason not to change them."
Yes i use the isue lithium batteries like many here but LL people here will vouch as I am sure you can too, fluxuating temperatures can kill batteries not saying it happens all the tim but even if it happens just once isn't being proficient in a field craft important for taking that one shot?
"Yes, you can become proficient, I spend hours behind a reticle everyday, and mil to within the nearest 100th of a mil, because really past 600 a 10th of a mil isn't going to cut it. When you'r e shooting inside there, minute of man, you can be off a whole lot and still get a solid kill without ever knowing your mil range was off."
Like you I also got to the 100ths place becauese like you I know the importance of say .9 to .95 I don't spend hours everyday not that lucky but I run ranging at 2 ranges every week while i shoot. Our range are from 50m -1000m We have a LRF but we range with reticles first then get a confirmation from the LRF....Why some may ask, just good practice for any professional to stay on their game.......Also dude relax you came so crazy LOL it's all good we all have opinions
