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PVA Status Updates: Hancock Rifle & NUCLEUS Barreled Action

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On one hand, Prime did just launch 6.5 SAUM ammo and I'd assume that means someone is going to be announcing brass soon. On the other hand I think the PRC is going to have a greater chance of mainstream acceptance. Hornady backing, nonrebated rim for feeding from box mags, factory ammo available at local stores, cheaper dies (I picked up a Hornady match busing die on Amazon for $21, standard set is $45) and the performance was close enough for me to lean that way.

Looking forward to hunting the #2 barrel in 6.5 PRC I ordered from you after chatting yesterday morning. For my purposes it was the right pick.

That is why I struggle with the change. It's an easy change for us to accommodate on face value because we have the reamers for production barrels already; we just need to use them.

On the other hand it alienates the guys (2 of them) who have 6.5 SAUM JHR's coming, we wouldn't support both of them at this time in the Hancock.

And on top of it PRIME is doing 6.5 SAUM ammo now and we have a collaboration with them on the reamers for 6 Creed and will for the 6.5 SAUM. Plus an ammo discount for Hancock owners on PRIME when they buy a rifle. So I don't want to alienate that aspect either, just sort of thinking out loud and seeing what folks think on it.
 
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After reading this article I don’t see a huge advantage to the 6.5 PRC over the 6.5 Creedmoor. I get the same velocity with 140 and 143’s out of my Creedmoor running RL26. I guess if the extra weight on the bullet is what you’re looking for then go for it. I need to read more about the SAUM.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/new-hornady-6-5-prc-precision-rifle-cartridge/
So take the extra ~200 fps you get reloading and add that to the PRC by reloading

We know hornady factory is slow so if you wanna compare the two with factory velocities at least be fair about it
 
Hornady reloading data shows 3150 with 140/143 as the max for RL26 in the PRC. As said above, factory loads are slower. SAUM is definitely faster,but most stuff I've read says it only gets you 50-75fps. Add a little barrel length to the PRC and you're back in the right neighborhood.
 
Why does it have to be an either-or situation?

I agree with this. If it's just a matter of using a different reamer it seems like a no-brainer to offer both since a lot of people want PRC now and there were certainly be some who want to shoot 6.5 SAUM when Prime starts offering the ammo for it. There isn't a limit to the number of calibers a rifle is offered in for Production division, is there?
 
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So take the extra ~200 fps you get reloading and add that to the PRC by reloading

We know hornady factory is slow so if you wanna compare the two with factory velocities at least be fair about it
Fair enough. I guess I would need to shoot one and see what other factors come into play. Recoil, cost of brass, powder charge cost variance, etc, to see if it’s really better and worth it.
 
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I agree with this. If it's just a matter of using a different reamer it seems like a no-brainer to offer both since a lot of people want PRC now and there were certainly be some who want to shoot 6.5 SAUM when Prime starts offering the ammo for it. There isn't a limit to the number of calibers a rifle is offered in for Production division, is there?

Every varying config has a cost to support it though. We don't know the exact cost for PVA, but I'm sure there is some. And if the JHR is on razor thin margins, even the smaller cost could affect long term profitability or accommodating possible price fluctuations.
 
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Every varying config has a cost to support it though. We don't know the exact cost for PVA, but I'm sure there is some. And if the JHR is on razor thin margins, even the smaller cost could affect long term profitability or accommodating possible price fluctuations.
I fail to see any cost other than swapping out the reamers and lathe profiles (about a 2-5 minute job) and creating a new laser engraver profile to mark the caliber on the barrel. They already have the ability to ream 6.5 PRC barrels. I could be wrong, but that seems to me like a pretty minimal cost if it sells you additional rifles.
 
I’d guess this is what is driving the either/or question.
I’m sure PVA will clarify today, but I'm almost certain it's the PRS rules causing their dilemma.
Otherwise i think we'd have seen them offer a JHR in every reamer they have which is quite a substantial list

I think the short list for the JHR, being common calibers, means they can go through each quicker without having to spend the time to switch reamers and programs, time that could be spent turning barrels. There's a reason they have calibers that cost a little more; they're not common enough and you're essentially paying for the time it takes to switch programs and tooling.

Website updated to 6.5 PRC, saum removed
 
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Received my Nucleus Group Buy barrel yesterday! Hopefully my action will be delivered Tuesday to my FFL.

jRqh8e.jpg
 
Why does it have to be an either-or situation?
For a place our size, doing production, yeah it kinda does. The Hancock has a somewhat short list of calibers to keep on the shelf. Right now we are making them to order but the goal is to have parts on the shelf, barrels ready to screw on and assemble. Having 2 calibers that are very near the same performance makes for a bunch of cost that sits on the shelf. Especially considering we sold less than 2% of the currently pre-ordered hancocks on 1 of those calibers.

If the 2 Dashers are any clue I am hesitant to say we're going to see a big jump in rifles sold from adding the PRC alone. The Dashers combined sold fewer than the 6mm BR did and all 3 of those sold less than the 6 Creed; everything combined was less than what the 6.5 Creed did alone. So there's a clear winner there.

I was really hoping to see that someone would bring factory Dasher to the party, which is why we were doing both flavors of Dasher brass. I'd had some conversations with an ammo company that was looking to use the Norma brass to make factory Dasher for about $28/box retail but when the brass supplied dried up with Bullets.com closing that was the end of that idea.


I fail to see any cost other than swapping out the reamers and lathe profiles (about a 2-5 minute job) and creating a new laser engraver profile to mark the caliber on the barrel. They already have the ability to ream 6.5 PRC barrels. I could be wrong, but that seems to me like a pretty minimal cost if it sells you additional rifles.

I'd love to have someone come over and swap reamers on a turning center in 2-3 minutes without having a major risk of at least 2 problems

First time the reamer enters the bore it misses and explodes ($350 reamer toast, barrel rework needed, plus down time on the caliber to get another)
Second the headspace is way off and blows the hole too deep... more barrel rework needed.

Switching a reamer, dialing it in on the holder to get a true chamber, and making sure the headspace isn't blown on teh first cycle is about a 30 minute job.

We do offer the 6.5 PRC already, it goes in the Nucleus barreled action or anything else that's not the Hancock. But to make the Hancock profitable in any way we have to be very careful about the amount of configuration changes and options are there. There isn't much meat on the bone to begin with, adding cook time without adding meat to the pot isn't a recipe for more food.


I guess here's the final question posed directly:

If we add the 6.5 PRC to the lineup right now, who's ready to put a deposit on one of the rifles in response to it?
 
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Otherwise i think we'd have seen them offer a JHR in every reamer they have which is quite a substantial list

I think the short list for the JHR, being common calibers, means they can go through each quicker without having to spend the time to switch reamers and programs, time that could be spent turning barrels. There's a reason they have calibers that cost a little more; they're not common enough and you're essentially paying for the time it takes to switch programs and tooling.

Website updated to 6.5 PRC, saum removed

Yessir, you hit it on the head.

We're going to offer the 6.5 PRC; the 6.5 SAUM orders will be honored as they stand but unless there's a compelling reason we'll just run the 6.5 PRC.

In fact I'm probably going to build a PRC for a hunting barrel this year because it intrigues me... I'm very tempted to make it a 6mm PRC instead; the reamer should be here right before the season comes in.
 
Saw this on Facebook this morning;

Tuesday Morning Status:

John Hancock Rifles:
We confirmed with ATF that our application for Marking Variance is under review. There have been some changes required by the oversight agency which we have responded to and updated the documentation and process flow to comply.

We do not have a date for expected approval at this time. If we get an expected approval date or an approval we will put up a post about it.
In the mean time the JHR project is moving forward as we are cutting more barrels for it in the time we are awaiting approval so that customers can be notified for final payment and FFL info.


Tripods:
The first batch of tripods went out on July 17/18 (anything that had custom engraving went out on 18th). Reports back from customers have been extremely positive and we've placed a PO for a 3rd batch.


The second batch, estimated to ship Aug 6th is due here appx Aug 30th. There was a delay in 1 component that held up assembly. The delay was due to anodizing quality being rejected on the latches for the legs. The parts have been replaced with properly plated ones. We have updated the website accordingly.

The 3rd batch of tripods is slightly smaller than the first 2 due to parts availability. Those are due the 3rd week of September. Once we have a hard date of arrival to us we will open up orders for the next set.

Nucleus barreled action orders are in process for barrel work currently. We have not received the receivers yet but are expecting them sometime in the next 10 days based on status from ARC.

Muzzle brakes, Dasher conversion kits, barrel nuts, barrel tenon caps, and muzzle caps are all in stock and ready to ship.

Keep your eyes open for several new products coming for the discerning rifle shooter!
 
I keep finding myself wondering if I should have gone with a Tikka... Then I take a look at the groups others are getting with ARC / PVA gear and the desire to have anything else fades....quickly.

Yes, I think our patience will be rewarded handsomely.
 
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I keep finding myself wondering if I should have gone with a Tikka... Then I take a look at the groups others are getting with ARC / PVA gear and the desire to have anything else fades....quickly.
Haven't seen the groups - I'd be interested if you had a link? I've only read through the last page of this thread.

My Tikka CTR 6.5 CM shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA. I've had some 1-hole groups down at .1-.2, but that's definitely not the norm. All this is me handloading cheap hornady brass on my cheap RCBS rock chucker with beam scale, FL sizer to bump the shoulder, cheap hornady trimmer, etc. I've seen some Tikkas that will consistently do 1/2 MOA or a little better. Of course mine was $800 new when Whittaker's was selling them cheap. I'd be very interested to know what the PVA JH will do - when I shoot out my factory barrel, it's goinig to be a tough call between getting a PVA pre-fit or selling the whole thing and getting a JH.
 
I keep finding myself wondering if I should have gone with a Tikka... Then I take a look at the groups others are getting with ARC / PVA gear and the desire to have anything else fades....quickly.

I did go get a Tikka TAC A1 and I'm happy I did instead of waiting on the Nucleus BA that I pre-ordered. I still plan to take delivery of the Nucleus when it finally is ready, likely early next year. But I'm glad I've had a great rifle to shoot and use instead of waiting and having nothing.
 
I did go get a Tikka TAC A1 and I'm happy I did instead of waiting on the Nucleus BA that I pre-ordered. I still plan to take delivery of the Nucleus when it finally is ready, likely early next year. But I'm glad I've had a great rifle to shoot and use instead of waiting and having nothing.

Man I hope the JHRs are sooner than “early next year”.
 
Man I hope the JHRs are sooner than “early next year”.
Not sure where the “early next year” info came from but I know Josh and Jeremy are busting their asses to get all these components ready so when they get their ok from ATF for the JH it will be ready to go. As for the Nucleus barreled action I believe you will see them sooner rather than later. As Josh stated above they were expected to receive the Nucleus Action in “10 days!”
 
Not sure where the “early next year” info came from but I know Josh and Jeremy are busting their asses to get all these components ready so when they get their ok from ATF for the JH it will be ready to go. As for the Nucleus barreled action I believe you will see them sooner rather than later. As Josh stated above they were expected to receive the Nucleus Action in “10 days!”

It was not referring to the JHRs, but rather the nucleus barreled actions. There was a post from ARC that they were looking to get the Nucleus orders from January filled by the end of the calendar year. As my order was in Feb I figure I'm in to next calendar year.
 
Had it been explained to me when I changed my initial order from a JHR to a BA that I would be placed in the back of the line, I would have just ordered the JHR and added the barloc later. It is very disappointing to read from the man himself. But, I suppose, like the wait for suppressors (although longer now), it'll all be worth it the first time you pull the trigger.
 
So a buddy of mine brought his ARC Nucleus over tonight and we threw it into my KRG Bravo and man it was a sweet. The ergos of the bravo fit the nucleus really well. Those of you who are waiting for a Hancock, you are waiting for an unbelievable value in a rifle. Hopefully the ATF can get things moving soon. I can’t wait for my nucleus and PVA barrel.
 
Like I've said before. I've got a JH coming but I've already got a nuke with a PVA barrel. It's a blast to shoot and feels great. Those who haven't had the opportunity to feel one yet, you won't be dissapointed. The wait will be well worth it
 
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So a buddy of mine brought his ARC Nucleus over tonight and we threw it into my KRG Bravo and man it was a sweet. The ergos of the bravo fit the nucleus really well. Those of you who are waiting for a Hancock, you are waiting for an unbelievable value in a rifle. Hopefully the ATF can get things moving soon. I can’t wait for my nucleus and PVA barrel.

Did you try putting upwards pressure on the mag to see if the bolt catches the feed lips? I have not tried this yet with my bravo but experience it with another chassis I have. I am just curious if the mag catch will need to be filed down on the bravo as well.
 
Did you try putting upwards pressure on the mag to see if the bolt catches the feed lips? I have not tried this yet with my bravo but experience it with another chassis I have. I am just curious if the mag catch will need to be filed down on the bravo as well.
We really didn't mess with magazines much, I just threw a pmag aics in it and ran with it. We didn't have any issue with the pmag.
 
Did you try putting upwards pressure on the mag to see if the bolt catches the feed lips? I have not tried this yet with my bravo but experience it with another chassis I have. I am just curious if the mag catch will need to be filed down on the bravo as well.


What did I miss? What’s wrong with mags / feeding?
 
I was just curious if with upward pressure on the mag, if the bolt hit the feed lips on the mag. I have a Nucleus in a different chassis and was curious if anyone tried it in the Bravo. This is minor fitting and modifications to the feed lips or mag release at best. I was just curious and have not put my Nucleus in the Bravo i have as well. Pardon me if this should have gone in the Nucleus thread.
 
But may not be bad to have here since the JHRs are in Bravos
The issue that I heard with the Bravo as I understand it was not from pressure on the bottom but from pressure being applied on the front of the mag while trying to stabilize and steady the rifle. Thus it canted the mag up in the rear. KRG, makes a accessory to prevent this from happening. It’s also been determined that some of the lips on the mags are preventing positive feed and they require trimming in order to work positive feed and not push feed.



1534481139316.png
 
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i might've missed this, but are the JH rifle's have Button or Cut rifling?

thanks!
 
Anyone get a barreled action yet?
PVA has been great about keeping everyone in the loop along the way. Id assume since they haven't provided an update in 3 weeks they are still waiting on actions to arrive.
 
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We recieved our first Nucleus actions last week however they were mistakenly shipped with incorrect main springs and old extractors.
We are awaiting replacement parts prior to contacting the first 12 folks in line and telling them to pay the balances due. We're waiting because it would be unreasonable (in my opinion) to tell someone "We got your stuff almost done, pay us now... oh btw we still need to replace a couple parts and I don't know when they're coming in."

Barrels are being cut or have been cut for pretty much every Nucleus action we have in hand.

The JHR's are waiting on the ATF still. We are at 5 weeks since last I was able to communicate with anyone other than a VM box.


On other projects we are catching up the backlog with the oddball things here and there and have been getting more common orders like 6/6.5 Creed 6.5x47, etc out the door generally ahead of quote unless there is an atypical requirement. Our Cerakote guy said yesterday "You guys might need to start going to a weekly crate delivery, I'm getting a box from you every single day almost!"

Machines are doing what they're built to do, cut chips.

The results pretty much speak for themselves on our products... shooters are regularly placing well with the barrels and the brakes don't stay on the shelf long at all. Clearly we're doing something right there.

Stay tuned for more. As soon as I have any info on the Nucleus springs or the Marking Variance I will update immediately.
 
Thanks for the update Bohem. just ordered a barreled action (6.5 PRC) today. possible to get a ball park ETA? thanks!
 
We recieved our first Nucleus actions last week however they were mistakenly shipped with incorrect main springs and old extractors.
We are awaiting replacement parts prior to contacting the first 12 folks in line and telling them to pay the balances due. We're waiting because it would be unreasonable (in my opinion) to tell someone "We got your stuff almost done, pay us now... oh btw we still need to replace a couple parts and I don't know when they're coming in."

Barrels are being cut or have been cut for pretty much every Nucleus action we have in hand.

The JHR's are waiting on the ATF still. We are at 5 weeks since last I was able to communicate with anyone other than a VM box.


On other projects we are catching up the backlog with the oddball things here and there and have been getting more common orders like 6/6.5 Creed 6.5x47, etc out the door generally ahead of quote unless there is an atypical requirement. Our Cerakote guy said yesterday "You guys might need to start going to a weekly crate delivery, I'm getting a box from you every single day almost!"

Machines are doing what they're built to do, cut chips.

The results pretty much speak for themselves on our products... shooters are regularly placing well with the barrels and the brakes don't stay on the shelf long at all. Clearly we're doing something right there.

Stay tuned for more. As soon as I have any info on the Nucleus springs or the Marking Variance I will update immediately.
If my action was one of the actions in your shop waiting on parts, I’d be excited to hear so. Just saying, haha. Thanks for the update Josh!
 
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Machines are doing what they're built to do, cut chips.
If your machines are cutting chips you might need to up your coolant or feed rates. If on the other hand you are cutting parts and making chips that is what they are made for. ;)
Just messing. I work as an aerospace machinist.
Keep up the good work.
 
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