Rainier Arms agrees to give NYC all info on “ghost gun” buyers

[Lawless]

Saw this on ARFcom

Ghost gun retailers agree to stop selling kits and parts to New York City residents, as new federal rule takes effect

Rainier Arms and Rock Slide reached settlements with New York City, where officials say incidents involving ghost guns have been dangerously escalating.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[hlee]

 

[346ci]

That won't be good for business.

 

[alamo5000]

The story I have heard is the lawyers told Rainier to go ahead and do this on the grounds that if the case wasn't settled the next step in the lawsuit would allow 'discovery' which would include all of this information anyway.

So if they refused and said no, then the lawsuit goes on and 'discovery' would have happened in the coming weeks anyway where they would have been required to hand everything over in either situation.

 

[Dingodog]

So they rolled over on their own. They can suck a dick.

 

[hlee]

Life is much less disappointing once you internalize the fact that the firearms industry exists to take your money, not to defend your rights.

 

[candyx]

Life is much less disappointing once you internalize the fact that the firearms industry exists to take your money, not to defend your rights.

Agree but some of the manufactures don't have billion dollar contracts with the feds so their customer base is John Q Public. So if you turn on your customer base then your sales will plummet.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Px will be flooded with shit next week

 

[Threadcutter308]

Saw this on ARFcom

Ghost gun retailers agree to stop selling kits and parts to New York City residents, as new federal rule takes effect

Rainier Arms and Rock Slide reached settlements with New York City, where officials say incidents involving ghost guns have been dangerously escalating.

www.nbcnews.com

View attachment 7951273

This should come as a surprise to no one. Some “people” have also stated publicly that they’d roll over if approached by uncle federal.

Keep your business to yourself and your mouth shut. And, don’t do anything illegal. Be the grey man (if that’s possible anymore).

 

[Supersubes]

The story I have heard is the lawyers told Rainier to go ahead and do this on the grounds that if the case wasn't settled the next step in the lawsuit would allow 'discovery' which would include all of this information anyway.

So if they refused and said no, then the lawsuit goes on and 'discovery' would have happened in the coming weeks anyway where they would have been required to hand everything over in either situation.

They should have waited for discovery then.

 

[Jsp556]

Doubt Rainier will ever get any more of my money. Fuck companies that fuck their customers.

 

[Redmanss]

Rainer's first mistake was selling and shipping anything to a NYC zip code, especially after NYC passed a law banning their citizenry from buying a chunk of aluminum or plastic. They made hundreds of shipments after that? That was dumb.

Their second mistake they made today. The loss in revenue will likely top the fine they would have taken. Well, maybe not, the vast majority of gun owners won't even hear a thing about this. Still doesn't make it right.

 

[Mwalex]

Well, if this story is true fuck Rainier Arms.

 

[hlee]

Just one more instance of the government using your money to deprive you of your rights...

 

[Mwalex]

I just called Rainier and asked if the article was true and was told yes it was. The person i spoke to told the same story as a previous poster - they would not be able to protect the information regardless of now or later. Still done doing business with them.

 

[7.62willdo]

fuck Those pieces of shit

 

[NoDopes]

Federal district court in Texas just said the ATF doesn't have the authority to declare ghost guns illegal.
So, it doesn't actually matter.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Federal district court in Texas just said the ATF doesn't have the authority to declare ghost guns illegal.
So, it doesn't actually matter.

In “theory”, or in “practice” ?

(Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not arguing your point. The flip side though is that if so inclined, they’ll just do whatever the fuck they want).

 

[Oldloser]

They could delete the data and all it’s backups.

 

[Mwalex]

In “theory”, or in “practice” ?

(Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not arguing your point. The flip side though is that if so inclined, they’ll just do whatever the fuck they want).

The ATF ran into the same type of decision as the EPA just did in the case levied against them by West Virginia. The judge stated that making policy was outside of the what the ATF could do under the NFA which is where Congress defined what a gun was in very succinct terms. The ATF modified that definition to go after frames, receivers and parts kits. At this point I believe there is an injunction against the ATF in this case/decision.

 

[Bradu]

Did any of you really think this wasn't going to happen at some point with all the ghost gun shit?

 

[Threadcutter308]

They could delete the data and all it’s backups.

Contempt of court and probably conspiracy to commit “yada, yada, yada”……..

Seeing why the powers that be want to eliminate cash yet ?

 

[hkmp5s]

Why do they keep this information to begin with?

 

[Smitty192]

This is just the beginning. The line between businesses and government is becoming more and more blurry by the minute. You let uncle sugar stick the tip in, you'll end up with monkey pox.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Why do they keep this information to begin with?

Credit card/online sales information. Not sure why that’s even a question……

 

[Supersubes]

Why do they keep this information to begin with?

The same reason any company keeps records of sales. Its called “accounting”

 

[91Eunozs]

If they’d have waited to be forced to produce the information, they could have made a mint selling stuff in/to free states badged as “Rainer Arms Legal Defense Fund” along with a press release enumerating their rights and then stating “help us fight an unjust, corrupt, and unconstitutional bureaucracy…”

Hell, I’d go out of my way to support them financially if they’d just stand firm!

I’ve bought a fair amount from them over the years…. That’s over now.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Definitely will NEVER buy from them again. If conservatives would just use their wallets they could have so much more power

 

[JLP83]

Federal district court in Texas just said the ATF doesn't have the authority to declare ghost guns illegal.
So, it doesn't actually matter.

Since when does the ATF give a fuck about laws? They do as they please.

 

[Redmanss]

Federal district court in Texas just said the ATF doesn't have the authority to declare ghost guns illegal.
So, it doesn't actually matter.

This has nothing to do with ATF changing their minds concerning 80% receivers rules, so those proceedings are completely irrelevant in this case. NYC has their own law banning the sale of the kits, Rainier violated that law by selling and shipping the kits to NYC residents, and made a plea bargain deal to reveal who they illegally sold the kits to so they don't face further prosecution. This is strictly a city to retailer case, one the city happily publicized to show how they took down another gun dealer.

Perhaps, and this is all speculation, but perhaps Rainier didn't know about the NYC law. Pretty reckless for an online firearm dealer to not know the laws of all their markets, especially one the size of NYC and also one the size of Rainier Arms, I mean it isn't like this is some obscure city we're talking about here or Bubba Joe with his garage based firearm accessory business. All the more reason I strongly support ALL firearm manufacturers to withdraw ALL business to ALL customers in these firearm restricting states, especially to every government agency (or at least them as a minimum). It's a set-up and a bear trap for any of them to continue to do business with any of them, not to mention a hypocrisy and unethical to support an anti-2A state while seemingly proclaiming to be pro-2A. Et tu, Judas?

Rainier isn't losing my business over this, they already lost it years ago when they sold me a tomato stake disguised as a shop brand ultra match .308 barrel with the barrel extension clocked out of time. I only have to learn a lesson once.

 

[GUN NUT in IA]

Do they sell coffee too?

 

[Im2bent]

So what happens if you tell the popo, when they show up and ask you for the ghost gun, "I decided it wasn't worth the trouble and threw it away". Its not a gun if it was not finished. There is no law against throwing away some scraps of metal......

 

[Im2bent]

Also if you are into the ghost gun thing you should have bought with ghost cash not online with a credit card. The whole ghost gun thing is kinda stupid. I mean how many unregistered guns are already out there? Shit tons.

 

[Marinevet1]

walk into any large gun show, throw down some cash...........walk away.........

 

[hlee]

walk into any large gun show, throw down some cash...........walk away.........

But, make sure you only buy from the guys wearing the ‘Not AFT’ hats.

 

[chevy_man]

Why do they keep this information to begin with?

This is my question.

They sold a hunk of metal. All data should be deleted within a few weeks of shipment, only delay being to insure customers got product they actually ordered.


As soon as they were approached with a lawsuit, they simply let the daily delete run and by discovery they have zero records.

"Oops, didn't know we had to change our sales operation" is a hell of a lot better look to a judge and jury than "I just deleted everything, fuck you!"

 

[TXAZ]

Since they’re bending the heck out of the law anyway, I’m just guessing that the NYC buyers don’t know about various cutouts available in friendlier states who will repackage / reship 80%’ers.
Or maybe they’re just not that smart.
Or they don’t read the news about gang and narco gun procurement.

 

[TurboTrout]

I don’t know why they keep these damn records like this, there has to be a way to still keep what they need to spam you without a record of non 4473 things you bought

Lone wolf is also VERY bad at their extensive non required record keeping, when asked about it you’d think Hillary was their manager

 

[TurboTrout]

Since they’re bending the heck out of the law anyway, I’m just guessing that the NYC buyers don’t know about various cutouts available in friendlier states who will repackage / reship 80%’ers.
Or maybe they’re just not that smart.
Or they don’t read the news about gang and narco gun procurement.

Gang and narco? You talking fast and the furious?

I also believe the majority of weapons used by private sector gangs and crime have historically just been stolen

 

[hkmp5s]

Credit card/online sales information. Not sure why that’s even a question……

The same reason any company keeps records of sales. Its called “accounting”

So an accountant needs to know that Bob Smith bought a p80 in Feb 2020 so he can keep the books straight, credit cards seldom list the specific items bought only the total of the sale. Considering how states weaponize this info to prosecute people keeping this info longer than what is necessary is stupid.

 

[Supersubes]

So an accountant needs to know that Bob Smith bought a p80 in Feb 2020 so he can keep the books straight, credit cards seldom list the specific items bought only the total of the sale. Considering how states weaponize this info to prosecute people keeping this info longer than what is necessary is stupid.

You can rest assured that every online purchase Bob ever made, including the build your own custom Fleshlight he bought in 2020 at the height of the pandemic, is recorded on a sales receipt.

 

[Redmanss]

So an accountant needs to know that Bob Smith bought a p80 in Feb 2020 so he can keep the books straight, credit cards seldom list the specific items bought only the total of the sale. Considering how states weaponize this info to prosecute people keeping this info longer than what is necessary is stupid.

Businesses that don’t keep records like that will be targeted by the IRS for money laundering or falsifying tax filings. Start up an 80% receiver business, keep no financial records of how you made your money, and let us know how it works out.

 

[BigPrince]

and one less retailer to shop from.

 

[TurboTrout]

Businesses that don’t keep records like that will be targeted by the IRS for money laundering or falsifying tax filings. Start up an 80% receiver business, keep no financial records of how you made your money, and let us know how it works out.

No

You have all the records from your merchant processor to prove what came in, you do NOT need to keep every single detail of what they bought

The only reason they keep that data is to try to sell you more shit via annoying spam emails, every time I get one I always hit unsubscribe, but worse than keeping my data to pester me all too often that personal data is weaponized by gov or private sector, or just get leaked.

 

[Romeo458]

They could delete the data and all it’s backups.

You mean the "What difference does it make now" defense

 

[MtnCreek]

I guess I'm ignorant of how things work. I assumed I could break nyc law without stepping foot in nyc and all they could do about it was bitch.

 

[hlee]

I guess I'm ignorant of how things work. I assumed I could break nyc law without stepping foot in nyc and all they could do about it was bitch.

I'm assuming that NYC weaponized interstate commerce law to bring suit this in federal court. Note that Rainer Arms is being sued, not criminally charged.

 

[hlee]

Retailers keep records as a 'customer service' because they know that retaining receipts is an art in and of itself. Does anyone remember having to show a receipt before being able to return or exchange an item at a store? I can barely get home with a receipt, let alone file it somewhere. What the retailers need is an "opt out" for record retention with a disclaimer that no return/exchange can be honored without proof of purchase.

 

[NoDopes]

If you want to get really fancy, you could encrypt the user password or something and store that with a public key.
In the future, only that user with his password would be able to verify it was actually his order.
To everybody else, it's just a bunch of random bits....

or... yeah, just delete the info

 

[Redmanss]

No

You have all the records from your merchant processor to prove what came in, you do NOT need to keep every single detail of what they bought

The only reason they keep that data is to try to sell you more shit via annoying spam emails, every time I get one I always hit unsubscribe, but worse than keeping my data to pester me all too often that personal data is weaponized by gov or private sector, or just get leaked.

You think a firearm business won’t be targeted by the IRS in any way they possibly can be?

That’s cute. And foolishly optimistic. Think Lois Lerner…