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Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Vectors, Vipers and Theodolite
Vectors, Vipers and Theodolite
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Are they all available to civilians?
Which one is the best?
Is there a recommended place to buy one?
Are they all available to civilians?
Which one is the best?
Is there a recommended place to buy one?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Putting your spotter alongside on a 20yd baseline allows completely passive optical/compass-heading triangulation. A little trig, and you're in the ballpark. Perfect, no, ballpark, very probably. If you hold center mass and miss by 3-5MOA vertically, is it really a miss?
Greg
Putting your spotter alongside on a 20yd baseline allows completely passive optical/compass-heading triangulation. A little trig, and you're in the ballpark. Perfect, no, ballpark, very probably. If you hold center mass and miss by 3-5MOA vertically, is it really a miss?
Greg
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Putting your spotter alongside on a 20yd baseline allows completely passive optical/compass-heading triangulation.</div></div>
Anyone who believes that they can get an adequate range at ELR using a compass and/or a 20-yard baseline is smoking crack. Do a danger space calculation on any cartridge at ELR, and you'll quickly learn that.
As an example, consider only a thousand yard shot. Few compasses can be read to an accuracy of 1 degree, yet a one degree angle at 1000 yards is 17.45 yards.
If optical ranging is desired, you're going to need a theodolite, as Boltripper mentioned, and a much longer baseline.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Putting your spotter alongside on a 20yd baseline allows completely passive optical/compass-heading triangulation.</div></div>
Anyone who believes that they can get an adequate range at ELR using a compass and/or a 20-yard baseline is smoking crack. Do a danger space calculation on any cartridge at ELR, and you'll quickly learn that.
As an example, consider only a thousand yard shot. Few compasses can be read to an accuracy of 1 degree, yet a one degree angle at 1000 yards is 17.45 yards.
If optical ranging is desired, you're going to need a theodolite, as Boltripper mentioned, and a much longer baseline.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
have used the swarovski to over 2k hand held laser seems much stronger than other common rangefinders .
have used the swarovski to over 2k hand held laser seems much stronger than other common rangefinders .
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Newcon makes a 2500 range finder, that looks like it is the next step past the Swarovski. It is expensive. Other than this, GPS is being used as well, typically speaking at ELR range, the targets are going to be more stationary (HTI) and GPS may be a viable technique. Hopefully Later will weigh in with what he is using.
Newcon makes a 2500 range finder, that looks like it is the next step past the Swarovski. It is expensive. Other than this, GPS is being used as well, typically speaking at ELR range, the targets are going to be more stationary (HTI) and GPS may be a viable technique. Hopefully Later will weigh in with what he is using.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
A GPS coordinate requires that the GPS be where the target is. That's feasible in some situations, as in a sniper team getting coordinates at likely spots before setting up in a hide, but not in others.
Map coordinates are also usable in some situations, but the danger space limitations of most cartridges for ELR will mean that the target better be pretty big.
A GPS coordinate requires that the GPS be where the target is. That's feasible in some situations, as in a sniper team getting coordinates at likely spots before setting up in a hide, but not in others.
Map coordinates are also usable in some situations, but the danger space limitations of most cartridges for ELR will mean that the target better be pretty big.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
if we are speaking real world use of ranging, and not just a field day out at the range, then GPS is viable considering at these ranges, the cartridges are typically used for Hard Targets. I am just assuming here at great risk of looking like an idiot, but I would think that finding target coordinates would be similar to using artillery, but without the necessity of such a large response to the target. If you can get accurate coordinates through intelligence, then a GPS solution is viable.
if we are speaking real world use of ranging, and not just a field day out at the range, then GPS is viable considering at these ranges, the cartridges are typically used for Hard Targets. I am just assuming here at great risk of looking like an idiot, but I would think that finding target coordinates would be similar to using artillery, but without the necessity of such a large response to the target. If you can get accurate coordinates through intelligence, then a GPS solution is viable.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who believes that they can get an adequate range at ELR using a compass and/or a 20-yard baseline is smoking crack. Do a danger space calculation on any cartridge at ELR, and you'll quickly learn that.
</div></div>
Agreed, but for distances considerably less than 1Kyd, the reliability improves...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who believes that they can get an adequate range at ELR using a compass and/or a 20-yard baseline is smoking crack. Do a danger space calculation on any cartridge at ELR, and you'll quickly learn that.
</div></div>
Agreed, but for distances considerably less than 1Kyd, the reliability improves...
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
For less than 1K (not really ELR), we have highly trained individuals that can do the job already with 'standard' practices without the necessity for ELR tactics.
For less than 1K (not really ELR), we have highly trained individuals that can do the job already with 'standard' practices without the necessity for ELR tactics.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what are people using for rangefinders out to 2500 yards. I have a Leica that goes to 1K.
I heard Cheytac uses this
Vector IV
I can't see where to buy them. Are they military sales only? Do they cost more than my house?
So, what is the way to do this? </div></div>
I have a Newcon 3000 LRB, and it works good out to 1500 - 2000 meters.
In very good conditions, you can be able to mesure out to 2500 meters.
I've had a chance to use the Vector IV, and it's a very very good rangefinder. I've mesured out to 3500 meters without any problem on small non reflectives targets ( trees ) !
But it cost approximatively 12 000 US $...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what are people using for rangefinders out to 2500 yards. I have a Leica that goes to 1K.
I heard Cheytac uses this
Vector IV
I can't see where to buy them. Are they military sales only? Do they cost more than my house?
So, what is the way to do this? </div></div>
I have a Newcon 3000 LRB, and it works good out to 1500 - 2000 meters.
In very good conditions, you can be able to mesure out to 2500 meters.
I've had a chance to use the Vector IV, and it's a very very good rangefinder. I've mesured out to 3500 meters without any problem on small non reflectives targets ( trees ) !
But it cost approximatively 12 000 US $...
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
+1 for the Vector IV...probably the the best ranging device currently made. On the downside they are extremely expensive. The device does a lot...yards, meters, feet, slope angle, cosine, point to point distance along with the very best optics you will ever look through.
Check out the Vectronics PLRF10 or the PLRF15. Made by the same company they have near the same distance capabilities for about 1/3 the cost.
+1 for the Vector IV...probably the the best ranging device currently made. On the downside they are extremely expensive. The device does a lot...yards, meters, feet, slope angle, cosine, point to point distance along with the very best optics you will ever look through.
Check out the Vectronics PLRF10 or the PLRF15. Made by the same company they have near the same distance capabilities for about 1/3 the cost.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
newcon, used one past 2000. Better than my swaro by far. The one I used is about $1700. Don't remeber model but I will look into it now.
newcon, used one past 2000. Better than my swaro by far. The one I used is about $1700. Don't remeber model but I will look into it now.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
http://www.hawkee.com/shop/prod/261520/
I think this is similar to the one I tried. They make them out to or past 4000yards.
Joe Starnes is a dealer for newcon. He is a hide member, can't remeber his name on here now. He is rather busy building rifles and doesn't make much time to get on here anymore.
406-278-5138 is his #
longshotrifles at aol.com is his email last I knew of
http://www.hawkee.com/shop/prod/261520/
I think this is similar to the one I tried. They make them out to or past 4000yards.
Joe Starnes is a dealer for newcon. He is a hide member, can't remeber his name on here now. He is rather busy building rifles and doesn't make much time to get on here anymore.
406-278-5138 is his #
longshotrifles at aol.com is his email last I knew of
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Vectronics PLRF10 on the left, Vectronics Vector on the right.
Weight is 1lb 7oz and 3lbs 11oz.
Vectronics PLRF10 on the left, Vectronics Vector on the right.
Weight is 1lb 7oz and 3lbs 11oz.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
The cheap way out, http://www.deutscheoptik.com/rangefinderinstruction.htm
Definately won't hang with the 5K PLR or the 10K+ vector, but one can be found for <$500 in good shape.
The cheap way out, http://www.deutscheoptik.com/rangefinderinstruction.htm
Definately won't hang with the 5K PLR or the 10K+ vector, but one can be found for <$500 in good shape.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Are Vectronics for sale to the public?
Are Vectronics for sale to the public?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Vectronics PLRF10 on the left, Vectronics Vector on the right.
Weight is 1lb 7oz and 3lbs 11oz. </div></div>
do you get cancer from using that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Vectronics PLRF10 on the left, Vectronics Vector on the right.
Weight is 1lb 7oz and 3lbs 11oz. </div></div>
do you get cancer from using that?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Hope not.
Hope not.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
from my experience up to 2500 meter the PLRF-10 is the lightest most economical solution that will give you positive and real readings the Vector is much more expensive and heavy but will give further readings for shooting I will take (and have) the PLRF-10
You can buy them with no problem do a search in the SH and you will find the contact name in Vectronix USA
Good Luck
from my experience up to 2500 meter the PLRF-10 is the lightest most economical solution that will give you positive and real readings the Vector is much more expensive and heavy but will give further readings for shooting I will take (and have) the PLRF-10
You can buy them with no problem do a search in the SH and you will find the contact name in Vectronix USA
Good Luck
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
I have managed to scrounge up 2 extra Swiss made military Wild rangefinders which are capable of 20,000 meters. They are not compact (3" X 25" tube plus a tripod) but if you are setting up 1500 to 2000 yards from a target, presumably you aren't sneaking in in your underwear, you rode in on a quad.
These things would cost several thousand to produce today and the optics are really world class. I think for the money ($500), and considering it has none of the laser limitations, it is a a really valuable tool. Put it on a modern tripod (pretty easy) and it is very useable. Made to drag into the field during war so these things appear to be bulletproof. They have lasted the last 60 years, I imagine they will make it another 60. They show up in batches from time to time and one of these days they are going to run out.
If anyone is interested in buying one of these let me know. I just bought them because they got so hard to find I keep buying every one I find just to pass them along to ELR shooters.
I have managed to scrounge up 2 extra Swiss made military Wild rangefinders which are capable of 20,000 meters. They are not compact (3" X 25" tube plus a tripod) but if you are setting up 1500 to 2000 yards from a target, presumably you aren't sneaking in in your underwear, you rode in on a quad.
These things would cost several thousand to produce today and the optics are really world class. I think for the money ($500), and considering it has none of the laser limitations, it is a a really valuable tool. Put it on a modern tripod (pretty easy) and it is very useable. Made to drag into the field during war so these things appear to be bulletproof. They have lasted the last 60 years, I imagine they will make it another 60. They show up in batches from time to time and one of these days they are going to run out.
If anyone is interested in buying one of these let me know. I just bought them because they got so hard to find I keep buying every one I find just to pass them along to ELR shooters.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Whats the price on a PLRF-10?
Whats the price on a PLRF-10?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
In here its very very very expensive but I believe that you can contact Vectronix USA and get the best price for it,
Remember it's a specialized precision Electro optical device with a MIL spec so don't expect it to cost like a Newcon or Leica but it's a device you can always count on.
I really think that any serious LR shooter should buy a good range finder if he can afford and skip the cheap ones
Good Luck
In here its very very very expensive but I believe that you can contact Vectronix USA and get the best price for it,
Remember it's a specialized precision Electro optical device with a MIL spec so don't expect it to cost like a Newcon or Leica but it's a device you can always count on.
I really think that any serious LR shooter should buy a good range finder if he can afford and skip the cheap ones
Good Luck
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gol1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from my experience up to 2500 meter the PLRF-10 is the lightest most economical solution that will give you positive and real readings the Vector is much more expensive and heavy but will give further readings for shooting I will take (and have) the PLRF-10 </div></div>
+1
I have one Vectronix PLRF10 too , that's the heat indeed , its price in Italy is about € 2.750,00
PP out
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gol1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from my experience up to 2500 meter the PLRF-10 is the lightest most economical solution that will give you positive and real readings the Vector is much more expensive and heavy but will give further readings for shooting I will take (and have) the PLRF-10 </div></div>
+1
I have one Vectronix PLRF10 too , that's the heat indeed , its price in Italy is about € 2.750,00
PP out
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
I have been able to range pretty well with my Magellan platinum handheld. It is an old model but I have topo maps loaded and have been able to predict ranges with the plotter out to about 1500 yards and have been accurate to within 20 yards. with a higher res (better) GPS I know my accuracy would improve. You should see how accurate google is with their tape measure function. I don't have a smart phone but I would imagine an iPhone would kick ass in that dept.
I have been able to range pretty well with my Magellan platinum handheld. It is an old model but I have topo maps loaded and have been able to predict ranges with the plotter out to about 1500 yards and have been accurate to within 20 yards. with a higher res (better) GPS I know my accuracy would improve. You should see how accurate google is with their tape measure function. I don't have a smart phone but I would imagine an iPhone would kick ass in that dept.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
I have google earth on my ipod, but no clue how to measure anything, don't think you can.
I have google earth on my ipod, but no clue how to measure anything, don't think you can.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tyler Kemp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have google earth on my ipod, but no clue how to measure anything, don't think you can. </div></div>
On the regular google earth, there is an ruler icon to use. Not sure if it carried over to an Ipod.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tyler Kemp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have google earth on my ipod, but no clue how to measure anything, don't think you can.
On the regular google earth, there is an ruler icon to use. Not sure if it carried over to an Ipod.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Distantfoe, Contact me via e-mail. Thanks
Distantfoe, Contact me via e-mail. Thanks
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
How large a target do the Vectronix rangefinders need at 2500 yards? I know that it is a V shaped beam needing a larger target the farther you go.
Do you have to have an object the size of a bus to range off? Smaller, Larger?
thanks
How large a target do the Vectronix rangefinders need at 2500 yards? I know that it is a V shaped beam needing a larger target the farther you go.
Do you have to have an object the size of a bus to range off? Smaller, Larger?
thanks
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Well, I pinged a 1.5 x .5 meter plate at 2000 meters this AM with the Vector IV. Now, it's vertical and painted white, so reflectance enters into it. IIRC, the beam on the IV is 2 Mrad's, the PRLF-10 is 1.5, but you'd have to check the manual to be sure.
Well, I pinged a 1.5 x .5 meter plate at 2000 meters this AM with the Vector IV. Now, it's vertical and painted white, so reflectance enters into it. IIRC, the beam on the IV is 2 Mrad's, the PRLF-10 is 1.5, but you'd have to check the manual to be sure.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Where can I buy a PRLF-10?
Where can I buy a PRLF-10?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Contact them directly they are very helpfull see details below:
USA VECTRONIX
801 Sycolin Road SE
Suite 206
Leesburg, VA 20175
Phone: +1 703 777 3900
Fax: +1 703 777 3940
[email protected]
Contact them directly they are very helpfull see details below:
USA VECTRONIX
801 Sycolin Road SE
Suite 206
Leesburg, VA 20175
Phone: +1 703 777 3900
Fax: +1 703 777 3940
[email protected]
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
.
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Re: Rangefinder for ELR
i have a newcon 2000 pro that my wife bought for me for $550. i have ranged 1210 meters so far the target was trees. hope to range farther in a few weeks.
i have a newcon 2000 pro that my wife bought for me for $550. i have ranged 1210 meters so far the target was trees. hope to range farther in a few weeks.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
I called them today and the price for a PLRF10 was $3500. What makes it so much better? Is it much more rugged etc? Or is it mainly that it can range to 2500 meters?
What would the next best choice be?
They say the beam is .3X1.5 mils. How large is that at 2500 meters?
I called them today and the price for a PLRF10 was $3500. What makes it so much better? Is it much more rugged etc? Or is it mainly that it can range to 2500 meters?
What would the next best choice be?
They say the beam is .3X1.5 mils. How large is that at 2500 meters?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
29.5 inches by 147.6 inches. I'd round that off to 30 inches by 150 inches, or 2.5 feet by 12 feet.
29.5 inches by 147.6 inches. I'd round that off to 30 inches by 150 inches, or 2.5 feet by 12 feet.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called them today and the price for a PLRF10 was $3500. What makes it so much better? Is it much more rugged etc? Or is it mainly that it can range to 2500 meters? </div></div>
The PLRF10 is a rock solid , rugged , <span style="font-weight: bold">really mil-specs</span> ELR range finder , it has a lot of functions that you can select , it's NVD compatible , it's compact , it's lightweight and very reliable , also it can really range to 2.500 meters .
Looking at its performances its price is quite fair IMHO , but if you do not need to range so far , well , I understand that can be considered pricey .
PP out
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1a convert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called them today and the price for a PLRF10 was $3500. What makes it so much better? Is it much more rugged etc? Or is it mainly that it can range to 2500 meters? </div></div>
The PLRF10 is a rock solid , rugged , <span style="font-weight: bold">really mil-specs</span> ELR range finder , it has a lot of functions that you can select , it's NVD compatible , it's compact , it's lightweight and very reliable , also it can really range to 2.500 meters .
Looking at its performances its price is quite fair IMHO , but if you do not need to range so far , well , I understand that can be considered pricey .
PP out
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Are there any other rangefinders that can range to 2k that are less expensive?
Are there any other rangefinders that can range to 2k that are less expensive?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
None that would be considered very reliable. The Vectronix products (PLRF, Vector) are quite reasonable for what they provide. If you NEED that cabability, they are pretty much a deal. If you only WANT that capability, then you need to decide if it's worth that to get it.
None that would be considered very reliable. The Vectronix products (PLRF, Vector) are quite reasonable for what they provide. If you NEED that cabability, they are pretty much a deal. If you only WANT that capability, then you need to decide if it's worth that to get it.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
I ping trees and rocks all the time. Using the Vector IV, I can range the side of a rock face from my back deck at 5123m. A plain unpainted sheet of plywood is good to 3K.
I ping trees and rocks all the time. Using the Vector IV, I can range the side of a rock face from my back deck at 5123m. A plain unpainted sheet of plywood is good to 3K.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Using a PLRF10, I ranged a cow at 1800 yards.
Using a PLRF10, I ranged a cow at 1800 yards.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
not sure what weapon your using to 2500 but try mildot if its a hurry and check google earth if it aint.
not sure what weapon your using to 2500 but try mildot if its a hurry and check google earth if it aint.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
You can't range things at much past 1000 using a mil reticle and get a useful range. Maps and Google Earth and the like are fine, if you can precisely locate the shooting position and the target position. GPS is also an option, if you can go to the target location. Absent that, the LRF is the solution.
You can't range things at much past 1000 using a mil reticle and get a useful range. Maps and Google Earth and the like are fine, if you can precisely locate the shooting position and the target position. GPS is also an option, if you can go to the target location. Absent that, the LRF is the solution.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
Now I’m no expert on this extreme long-range rifle thing but I’ve dabbled in it some.
As already mentioned the use of a graduated reticle (Mil-Dot) at ranges in excess of one kiloyard is pretty futile in my experience. Below is an example.
It would appear that the 48-inch tall target subtends 0.9 milradians.
(With mirage and target obscuration getting the measure any closer is beyond me.)
Using the WORM formula the range appears to be 1,481 yards.
The actual range is 1,500 yards.
Now the range determined is almost 99% accurate.
(Pretty good for an amateur I’d say.)
It still represents a 20-yard error in range.
This would result in the center of my 20” diameter shot-group being placed 19” below my point of aim.
The odds here favor a miss.
If you want to hit at extreme ranges you’ve got to use a good (expensive) laser to determine range.
I use the PLRF-10.
Please keep in mind that I’m just a hobbyist and my opinions are based upon limited experience and training.
Now I’m no expert on this extreme long-range rifle thing but I’ve dabbled in it some.
As already mentioned the use of a graduated reticle (Mil-Dot) at ranges in excess of one kiloyard is pretty futile in my experience. Below is an example.
It would appear that the 48-inch tall target subtends 0.9 milradians.
(With mirage and target obscuration getting the measure any closer is beyond me.)
Using the WORM formula the range appears to be 1,481 yards.
The actual range is 1,500 yards.
Now the range determined is almost 99% accurate.
(Pretty good for an amateur I’d say.)
It still represents a 20-yard error in range.
This would result in the center of my 20” diameter shot-group being placed 19” below my point of aim.
The odds here favor a miss.
If you want to hit at extreme ranges you’ve got to use a good (expensive) laser to determine range.
I use the PLRF-10.
Please keep in mind that I’m just a hobbyist and my opinions are based upon limited experience and training.
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
DAMN Mussack, what rock did you crawl out from under? It's nice to see you around again.
Hobbyist my ass!
By the way, how's that no shooting son of yours doing lately?
DAMN Mussack, what rock did you crawl out from under? It's nice to see you around again.
Hobbyist my ass!
By the way, how's that no shooting son of yours doing lately?
Re: Rangefinder for ELR
I just called Vectronix USA and was quoted a price of $3500 for a PLRF 10. If anyone knows how to get them cheaper I would appreciate that information. I know of a few guys who have purchased them for less than the $3500 quoted price tag.
I just called Vectronix USA and was quoted a price of $3500 for a PLRF 10. If anyone knows how to get them cheaper I would appreciate that information. I know of a few guys who have purchased them for less than the $3500 quoted price tag.
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