Trying to decide on a new lpvo. I had the burris 1-8 ffp but didn't quite like it for whatever reason. Trying to decide between the razor e version, nx8 or bite the bullet and maybe go with a mark 6. I am military so I do I receive the discounts. This is going on my Larue 14.5; used for some plinking, coyote hunting, perhaps 3 guns in the future. Any recs are appreciate, thanks in advance!
Rifle Scopes Razor 1-6, NX8 or.....
- Thread starter fletch1121
- Start date
I had the Kales 1-6. I highly recommend it with one exception: the click adjustments are mushy when returning to zero after dialing a shot. In other words you can’t be sure if you’re zeroed again or one click off. I realize that most don’t dial with these and one click is a small amount, but on a scope of that price I don’t consider that acceptable.
On the positive side, glass was excellent, weight was very reasonable, it’s combat tested, illumination was fantastic (not Aimpoint bright but functionally pretty close).
If I was buying another I’d try the E version of the Vortex. Vortex was the hands down king of 1-6 optics when I chose mine a couple years ago but the weight was ridiculous and the Kahles was very close second. The E version of the vortex helps but is still quite heavy.
On the positive side, glass was excellent, weight was very reasonable, it’s combat tested, illumination was fantastic (not Aimpoint bright but functionally pretty close).
If I was buying another I’d try the E version of the Vortex. Vortex was the hands down king of 1-6 optics when I chose mine a couple years ago but the weight was ridiculous and the Kahles was very close second. The E version of the vortex helps but is still quite heavy.
From experience, a couple things to consider: the Razor is SFP, where the others you are looking at are FFP. That really makes a difference in LPVO. The Razor is a great scope, glass is super clean, and being SFP, the usable “window” of the scope is great. The edges of the scope seem to disappear, and the eye box is not finicky. I had the Razor and liked it fine, until I started messing with the FFP NX8 and ATACR 1-8. When I had the Razor, there weren’t really many FFP LPVO out. If I was going to buy a 1-6 SFP today....ALL DAY the Kahles 1-6. Glass is superb, reticle is super nice. It’s lightweight, IMO, about the best SFP LPVO in the 1-6 range. The illumination could use one or two more clicks up, but it’s not a deal killer.
On to the FFP and 1-8’s. These are what I consider to be the low powered precision scopes. Scopes with FFP reticles that are usable as red dots on 1X, and as precision scopes on 8. You start getting into usable mil reticles and great performance. IMO, the ATACR 1-8 is about the king right now. Here’s why I say that: glass is super good. Very clean, ED glass, usable at max power very well. Reticle is solid. You can dial it or hold, it is usable either way. In fact, I prefer to hold with it because the one issue I have is that the center dot is a bit large. For up close, CQB, it’s super usable, as you get out to 300 or so, it gets a bit big. Solution: hold with the reticle, and you have a smaller, more precise aiming point. Problem solved.
The illumination is solid Aimpoint bright, or better. All in all, the 1-8 is as good as there is right now in that size package. Another usable scope in the FFP1-8 would be the Burris XTR 1-8. The one I had was a BDC type reticle though, and I’ve really gotten away from BDC’s in FFP scopes. Idk if Burris has a straight mil reticle, you’d have to check.
These are just some thoughts and considerations from a guy that has had several of the LPVO in the last 3-4 years. My department approved LPVO for patrol rifles, and in the process we tested SEVERAL that were out there.
On to the FFP and 1-8’s. These are what I consider to be the low powered precision scopes. Scopes with FFP reticles that are usable as red dots on 1X, and as precision scopes on 8. You start getting into usable mil reticles and great performance. IMO, the ATACR 1-8 is about the king right now. Here’s why I say that: glass is super good. Very clean, ED glass, usable at max power very well. Reticle is solid. You can dial it or hold, it is usable either way. In fact, I prefer to hold with it because the one issue I have is that the center dot is a bit large. For up close, CQB, it’s super usable, as you get out to 300 or so, it gets a bit big. Solution: hold with the reticle, and you have a smaller, more precise aiming point. Problem solved.
The illumination is solid Aimpoint bright, or better. All in all, the 1-8 is as good as there is right now in that size package. Another usable scope in the FFP1-8 would be the Burris XTR 1-8. The one I had was a BDC type reticle though, and I’ve really gotten away from BDC’s in FFP scopes. Idk if Burris has a straight mil reticle, you’d have to check.
These are just some thoughts and considerations from a guy that has had several of the LPVO in the last 3-4 years. My department approved LPVO for patrol rifles, and in the process we tested SEVERAL that were out there.
I currently own a mk6, nx8, and a G2R. They're all exceptional optics but If I were to pick only one I'd literally have to flip a coin between the mk6 and NX8. (Full disclaimer I have the NX8 with capped turrets) If I could mash up their features this is what I'd take:
-NX8 Mag range
-NX8 Mag Ring/PTL
-NX8 Size/Weight
-NX8 Illumination brightness. (Just as bright as any aimpoint)
-Mk6 Elevation Turret, capped wind. (exposed non-locking turrets are a no-go on LPVO IMO)
-Mk6 Reticle (NX8 reticle options suck...not sure what they were thinking with the big ass center dot)
-G2 Illum Controls
You can't go wrong with any of the 3. Would I pay more than $850 for a G2R? No. Would I pay the premium for the E version? No. Both the nx8 and mk6 can be had used for less than $1400.
I would not hesitate to buy any of these three used. They're all built to take a beating.
-NX8 Mag range
-NX8 Mag Ring/PTL
-NX8 Size/Weight
-NX8 Illumination brightness. (Just as bright as any aimpoint)
-Mk6 Elevation Turret, capped wind. (exposed non-locking turrets are a no-go on LPVO IMO)
-Mk6 Reticle (NX8 reticle options suck...not sure what they were thinking with the big ass center dot)
-G2 Illum Controls
You can't go wrong with any of the 3. Would I pay more than $850 for a G2R? No. Would I pay the premium for the E version? No. Both the nx8 and mk6 can be had used for less than $1400.
I would not hesitate to buy any of these three used. They're all built to take a beating.
Dont forget the Trijicon line. I have the Accupower on my rifle and love it. I really wanted the VCOG, but it was a lot of dough for the reliability I did not need. The one like I like is the glass is really clear in comparison to the other scopes I looked at. It is also a FFP 1-8 power, which doesn't hurt when comparing it to the SFP vortex 1-6.
Another benefit is the Trijicon has locking turrets rather than the covered turrets on the Vortex. If you plan on doing any dialing, this was my personal preference.
Another benefit is the Trijicon has locking turrets rather than the covered turrets on the Vortex. If you plan on doing any dialing, this was my personal preference.
I appreciate the advice. I felt as if the reticle on the burris 1-8 was a little thick on the top end which is why I didn't like it. I've read the whole thread about the NX8 and it seems some people are bothered about how large the center dot becomes.
I like how clean the reticle is on the g2r but I like the leupold even more. My only reservation on the leupold is if it's worth paying an extra ~$300-400. SFP vs FFP doesn't really matter to me, I can use either for my purposes with the scope. Weight isn't really a factor either; the larue stealth barrel even at 14.5 inches is not light.
I wish deciding on a scope was as easy as deciding what gun to buy....
I like how clean the reticle is on the g2r but I like the leupold even more. My only reservation on the leupold is if it's worth paying an extra ~$300-400. SFP vs FFP doesn't really matter to me, I can use either for my purposes with the scope. Weight isn't really a factor either; the larue stealth barrel even at 14.5 inches is not light.
I wish deciding on a scope was as easy as deciding what gun to buy....
I have the Razor 1-6 and the Burris FFP 1-8, from a performance standpoint, I like the Burris better, hands down. And that's not Burris fanboy talking. I've used these optics pretty hard in 3 Gun. I perform a lot better with the Burris.
But if it doesn't float your boat, I think the Nightforce is the obvious step up. I love the ATACR, hate the price. But it's an amazing optic. The NX8 doesn't thrill me, I dont think it's a significant step up in glass quality to some of the lesser priced 8x optics coming from LOW, but its amazingly compact and lightweight.
If you want to stay at 6x, I like the Kahles over the Razor.
Just my two bits.
But if it doesn't float your boat, I think the Nightforce is the obvious step up. I love the ATACR, hate the price. But it's an amazing optic. The NX8 doesn't thrill me, I dont think it's a significant step up in glass quality to some of the lesser priced 8x optics coming from LOW, but its amazingly compact and lightweight.
If you want to stay at 6x, I like the Kahles over the Razor.
Just my two bits.
I have the Kahles 1-6, Hawke Frontier 1-6, and Minox 1-8. The first two are on my SBRs; the Minox is on my 14.5 PWS. The Kahles is outstanding if you want a SFP 1-6. None better. The Hawke compares favorably, however, for about one-third of the price.
For 1-8 FFPs, I haven't tried the ATACR, but I'm very happy with the Minox. Top-of-the-line glass, superb reticle. It has a dual parallax feature. The parallax is 50m @ 1-2.5x, 200m @ 2.5-8x. It's also SFP for the dot and FFP for the reticle.
Check out this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/minox-zp8-1-8-vs-nightforce-atacr-1-8.6912734/
For 1-8 FFPs, I haven't tried the ATACR, but I'm very happy with the Minox. Top-of-the-line glass, superb reticle. It has a dual parallax feature. The parallax is 50m @ 1-2.5x, 200m @ 2.5-8x. It's also SFP for the dot and FFP for the reticle.
Check out this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/minox-zp8-1-8-vs-nightforce-atacr-1-8.6912734/
Atacr>Cqbss>nx8>s&b shortdot>eotech 1-6>razor gen 2 all things being equal.
The eotech is the best value but is not a bright as the razor. You need to decide what features are more important. The atatcr and cqbss with h27 are still king.
The eotech is the best value but is not a bright as the razor. You need to decide what features are more important. The atatcr and cqbss with h27 are still king.
2012 called and said not daylight bright.
2002 called and wonders why s&b figured it out back then but everyone has so much trouble with a daylight bright ffp.
And none are daylight bright which defeats the entire purpose of a lpv.
+1 on the Trijicon. I have the 1-6 on a .375 Ruger and love it. Bright class, crisp reticle ... all in all a very nice scope for the money.
Seconding this - I made the same decision on a gas gun opting for a NX8. The 1.25 MOA center dot is a drawback on a 1x8, especially since it's not required given the design of the reticle, but I was ultimately sold on weight and illumination.
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I bought the NX8 too, the dot is way too big, not sure if I will mount the thing. I guess for shooting 2/3 or reg IPSC's it would be perfect.
It’s designed for shooting people which I think we all understand. It’s just too bad a guy can’t grab it to smack a gopher at 100yds.
Given the illum’s design I’d really like to hear NF’s justification for that big ass dot.
On lower power, dot shrinks, pretty sure hitting a pdog at 100 would be easy, even on 8 power. 1.25 moa dot would cover a 5" plate at 400. I need to try it, looks fun. I need all of 8 power at 400 though, lol
I said gopher not pdog
Striped gophers are about 1” on a healthy diet. Prairie dogs....they fat as hell haha.
I know and understand what you were talking about, not many gophers here. My hit ratio goes up with fat targets.I said gopher not pdog
Prairie dogs....they fat as hell haha.
I used to think mine was a decent optic until I got a Razor. Not even close. Much better glass, much better FOV. And there are several other optics I would take over the Razor. The SWFA does not belong in this group.
I got rid of both of mine as soon as I used a razor.
Maybe look at the VCOG 1-8?
This...
I finally cleaned my JP after slugging it up running a can, mounted NX8. I can see getting a 100 zero will be a chore, maybe do 50 yards. I smacked center plate at 300 and reversed my dope for a temporary zero.
Hitting 5" plate at 400 was not tough, and easy work on a 14" diamond at 500 with a 68gr load.
It is not the dot, yeah it is big, it's that stupid shroud, for lack of a term, it obscures everything.
Had an older Razor HD Gen II in 1-6x, loved the glass (have yet to see better), but I ultimately sold it because of the weight (25 oz) a few years back. A couple weeks ago I went to my preferred local store to buy the new lighter weight Razor HD Gen II-E (21 oz), and ended up coming home with an EOTech Vudu 1-6x instead.
I almost didn't ask to look at the EOTech, but when I looked through it I was instantly smitten with the glass and the reticle. I don't know what it is, but I just love it...it's FFP, which I really like with this reticle, the way the reticle is illuminated as crisp as anything I've ever seen, and the quality of the glass is outstanding for the price point. Light transmission and color definition is also really impressive.
There are a lot of intriguing options at this price point now days. The NX8 looks great with it's size/weight and price...might be my next buy. The US Optics SVS 1-6x looks like one I'd love to have too...also interested in US Optics new TS line, which are relatively cheap at $699 for the 1-6x and $799 for the 1-8x. I'm going to need some new rifles to go on these scopes.
I almost didn't ask to look at the EOTech, but when I looked through it I was instantly smitten with the glass and the reticle. I don't know what it is, but I just love it...it's FFP, which I really like with this reticle, the way the reticle is illuminated as crisp as anything I've ever seen, and the quality of the glass is outstanding for the price point. Light transmission and color definition is also really impressive.
There are a lot of intriguing options at this price point now days. The NX8 looks great with it's size/weight and price...might be my next buy. The US Optics SVS 1-6x looks like one I'd love to have too...also interested in US Optics new TS line, which are relatively cheap at $699 for the 1-6x and $799 for the 1-8x. I'm going to need some new rifles to go on these scopes.
Had an older Razor HD Gen II in 1-6x, loved the glass (have yet to see better), but I ultimately sold it because of the weight (25 oz) a few years back. A couple weeks ago I went to my preferred local store to buy the new lighter weight Razor HD Gen II-E (21 oz), and ended up coming home with an EOTech Vudu 1-6x instead.
I almost didn't ask to look at the EOTech, but when I looked through it I was instantly smitten with the glass and the reticle. I don't know what it is, but I just love it...it's FFP, which I really like with this reticle, the way the reticle is illuminated as crisp as anything I've ever seen, and the quality of the glass is outstanding for the price point. Light transmission and color definition is also really impressive.
There are a lot of intriguing options at this price point now days. The NX8 looks great with it's size/weight and price...might be my next buy. The US Optics SVS 1-6x looks like one I'd love to have too...also interested in US Optics new TS line, which are relatively cheap at $699 for the 1-6x and $799 for the 1-8x. I'm going to need some new rifles to go on these scopes.
Which reticle did you choose? I’ve been looking at the Vudu and trying to decide which reticle is better out to 200/300 yards
SR-1 I believe...it's non caliber specific. I can check when I get back to the house. (Just looked online - it's indeed the SR-1).
I think it would work great for 200-300 yards, but it's obviously not going to be your best optic for punching paper.
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Thanks. I’m trying to decide between the Vudu with the SR1 or the Trijicon Accupower at the moment
I bet their justification is that some form of these were submitted for S-VPS, which would mean it was built for a gun with a 4MOA accuracy standard.
Lucky for you Vudu 1-8 is on the way.
I've been looking at the Primary Arms Platinum Series 1-8x24mm FFP with the illuminated ACSS Griffin MIL reticle. It and the 1-8x ATACR seem to be the only ones out there that check all of the boxes I want. Unfortunately, the ATACR is out of the budget for now...
I’ve compared side by side the Platinum 1-8 and my Razor HD-E 1-6. They are VERY similar glass wise and 1x is pretty true on the Platinum as well. Overall quality is not up to snuff to the Vortex but I expected that.
If Vortex offered theirs in 1-8x with FFP and a good reticle, I'd be all over it. The 1-6s and 1-8s are where the higher power scopes were in the early 2000s feature-wise...
My 1-8x Accupower showed up yesterday and I’m pretty impressed. The glass is super clear and the reticle seems really easy work with. My only “complaint” is that the turrets are not as “clicky” as I’m used to coming from my other scopes (NF, Steiner, Leupold). They’re not mushy in any but they just have different tactile feel. I’ve got it mounted up on my AR and I’m heading out to the range in a couple hours to zero it
No it's going to be a piece of shit SFP. L3 needs to stop letting retards make decisions.
It's SFP because Daniel Horner wanted it to be. Personally I would say he is far from retarded. He won the multi gun championship with that exact scope, blacked out. 3- gunners prefer the improved 1x performance. We are all aware of your love for FFP regardless of the use case.
Like I said L3 is retarded. Who gives a flying fuck what some homo 3 guner uses or wants It has as much relevence to combat as Nascar does to street vechicles. L3 is a defense contractor not homo contractor catering to game queens.
He's only the best in the world. And he was on the AMU marksman team, so he's got your DOD covered so there's that. You do know that DOD has requirements for both FFP and SFP LPVO's right? To be used in combat....in case you are wondering.
The AMU shooters are as much soldiers as the Army band and direct commission medical officers. They may wear the uniform but soldiers they are not. Let me know when he's humping ruck, breaking track or spending 15 months in a combat zone dodging IEDs and saf.
If he was the best in the world he would compete with a rack grade m4, ta31 & m855. Not some hand built race gun with a muzzle break the size of an artilery piece and handloaded ammo.Maybe a better example would be to use general issue gear and actually focus on the origional mission if the AMU....ya know to train soldiers to shoot better, not shoot international trap and 3 gun.
And show me where I said dod requirements are the end all be all.....
If he was the best in the world he would compete with a rack grade m4, ta31 & m855. Not some hand built race gun with a muzzle break the size of an artilery piece and handloaded ammo.Maybe a better example would be to use general issue gear and actually focus on the origional mission if the AMU....ya know to train soldiers to shoot better, not shoot international trap and 3 gun.
And show me where I said dod requirements are the end all be all.....
So what do you say to all the SF guys running Razors? That's probably the most popular lpvo with them and it's SFP.
What about it? What we're their options? The only viable ffp at the time was the cqbss. Now we have the ATACR and nx8.
What you fail to understand is relevence. Compared to an acog or a elcan, the vortex is superior. The qualiity ffp lpvs are superior to the razor. Eotech already has a winner in the 1-6ffp, it is better than the razor. Going to SFP in a 1-8 is taking 2 steps back.
And lasty guys run what they are issued. SMUs are still running eotechs. White side sof runs whatever the shitbag careerist officers procure for them.
If your going to argue at least bring the knowledge to debate this intelligently.
What you fail to understand is relevence. Compared to an acog or a elcan, the vortex is superior. The qualiity ffp lpvs are superior to the razor. Eotech already has a winner in the 1-6ffp, it is better than the razor. Going to SFP in a 1-8 is taking 2 steps back.
And lasty guys run what they are issued. SMUs are still running eotechs. White side sof runs whatever the shitbag careerist officers procure for them.
If your going to argue at least bring the knowledge to debate this intelligently.
I have more Vudu 1-6s than any other optic so I am not sure what point you are trying to prove. I can assure you, I know that optic inside out. In fact, I was running one before it was available commercially.
The main issue I have with your stance is that you believe SFP has no place regardless of use case. The Vudu is workable as a FFP because of the reticle design, many other FFP's have issues at low power with visibility, especially those that do not have a daylight bright dot that can be used in lieu of the tiny etched glass.
The ATACR is an exception. The NX8 shows the compromises of FFP optics in small packages and I would choose the Razor or Kahles or a SFP 1-8 over it given those compromises. 1-8 power optics, I lean your way, prefer to have FFP. For 1-6, a good SFP is better in almost any of the current available options than FFP.
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I ended up pulling the trigger on the Platinum with the Griffin Mil reticle. Mounted it tonight and it's really nice! I like the reticle a lot. It's great at 1x and at 8x. The ATACR 1-8 will probably replace it at some point down the road, but as a stepping stone to that, I don't think there is anything else that compares in the same price range.
Take a look at the new US Optics line up!!
They are awesome!!!
They are awesome!!!
But it's US optics. That supersedes pretty much anything it could have going for it.
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