The 6 MOA dot will not hinder you in shooting small, centered groups. Center the dot in the bullseye, just like you would center the bullseye in a set of aperture sights.
Sidearms & Scatterguns RDS Pistol people, why dont you have a seat right over here......
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
Got the CHPWS plate.
Plus side....
It's thin which is desireable to keep the RMR as low as possible.
It has bottom recoil lugs that fit into the slots for the DPP/Romeo install.
It sounds like metal and appears to show some silvering like it's metal so light though I'm thinking its plastic. The machining marks make me think it's printed or something....it won't attract a magnet.
The down side
Looks like my Vibra-Tite blew up n shipment...
Would have used my own Loc-Tite anyway.
This is disturbing though
The plate is slightly longer than the sight cut. A couple passes over a stone would likely custom fit it. Almost as if the FDE cerakote was not taken into account.
The surfacing feels reasonably smooth enough that a good gasket seal should be obtained on the RMR. As the actual Trijicon moisture seal appears to be of similarly thin material it may not be bad practice to use it with this product.
My other option is the Trijicon part which looks thicker and utilizes a set of screws to secure the plate to the gun, than a set of screws to secure the RMR to the gun.
Any engineer thoughts regard this?
Plus side....
It's thin which is desireable to keep the RMR as low as possible.
It has bottom recoil lugs that fit into the slots for the DPP/Romeo install.
It sounds like metal and appears to show some silvering like it's metal so light though I'm thinking its plastic. The machining marks make me think it's printed or something....it won't attract a magnet.
The down side
Looks like my Vibra-Tite blew up n shipment...
Would have used my own Loc-Tite anyway.
This is disturbing though
The plate is slightly longer than the sight cut. A couple passes over a stone would likely custom fit it. Almost as if the FDE cerakote was not taken into account.
The surfacing feels reasonably smooth enough that a good gasket seal should be obtained on the RMR. As the actual Trijicon moisture seal appears to be of similarly thin material it may not be bad practice to use it with this product.
My other option is the Trijicon part which looks thicker and utilizes a set of screws to secure the plate to the gun, than a set of screws to secure the RMR to the gun.
Any engineer thoughts regard this?
Well, didn't get too deep into that "CHPWS sucks" thread, but think you should call 'em before you take a stone to that plate if you might need a refund... and please be sure to save any entertaining future texts for us.
Truthfully, my sole experience with CHPWS went ok in that they had a suitable plate for my S2/SRO setup when everyone else was sold out, and it's been fine for nearly 2 years and ~10k rounds, so I've got no complaints.
That said, there should really be no need to have to go to CHPWS or anybody else really for optic plates for these guns, you would think the firearm maker's and optic maker's would've had this stuff worked out before their models were released...
But (and this comes from years of actual Sig ownership experience, not just arbitrary Sig-hate)... in typical Sig fashion, as usual we are their beta testers, so...
Edit/aside:
Should've said this before but: don't get all caught up in what back-up sights you run or even worry too much about running any at all if that's what you want to do. In fact, in USPSA circles, many guys including myself actually remove the back-up/alternate sights when we can.
Yes, I know there will always be that segment of guys out there who have to put back-up sights on everything, but IMHO one shouldn't fuck up their primary planned-on sighting system when making concessions for their back-up sights they hope (and more than likely) they will never ever use.
The least distraction for your eyes/brain the better, so JMHO but I'd avoid suppresor-height, fiber optic, and tritium all together. Black irons, just tall enough to get by with in an absolute shit luck emergency. If one needs their back-up sights to reference or help with acquiring their dot (like a crutch), then they need to train more.
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Yes Im not doing anything to the plate and have sent them a picture as posted here.
This is the Trij option...
Will result in a much higher installation but looks like a solid plate.
Sig isnt going to make things easy for its competition I guess and as DPP was spec'd for the mil option they had to accommodate Uncle Sam.
It'll be little higher, but it sure looks a lot more robust. Is it needed? IDK.
If it were me, if that plate wasn't very expensive and won't kill you to chuck it if it doesn't work, if everything looked like it was going to fit up nice once you fit the plate a little, I'd go for it with the CHPWS plate.
Don't think it needs to be said (but a just in case a reminder won't hurt): don't forget to degrease the screws and threads, blue loctite, watch it on torque.
(Also, wasn't BSing about no back-ups, here's my S2/SRO with my custom "no-front-sight front sight"):
I chimed in on the other thread that trashes CHPWS, to report my apparent anomaly good experience installing their plate for
a S&W M2.0 PC CORE, as the existing Leupold plate was not designed for the 2.0 PC CORE. I think I took some dings on that that for
disclosing I had to "lightly tap" the plate into position, since it looked a little like your situation. Nonetheless, the final result was a very snug and satisfactory fit for the Leupold DPP.
a S&W M2.0 PC CORE, as the existing Leupold plate was not designed for the 2.0 PC CORE. I think I took some dings on that that for
disclosing I had to "lightly tap" the plate into position, since it looked a little like your situation. Nonetheless, the final result was a very snug and satisfactory fit for the Leupold DPP.
@ Pmclaine.."all in the just exactly right places to give it that pugnaciously forward-leaning, eager look"
My 9th grade Latin teacher, Ms. Crofton, always said I was "pugnacious" , usually when I was leaning forward on my desk wildly shaking my hand to answer her questions, however she conceded to change her opinion IF I could properly conjugate "pugnacious" in all five derivatives.
My 9th grade Latin teacher, Ms. Crofton, always said I was "pugnacious" , usually when I was leaning forward on my desk wildly shaking my hand to answer her questions, however she conceded to change her opinion IF I could properly conjugate "pugnacious" in all five derivatives.
FYI/PSA - since it hasn't been mentioned yet, and is never really mentioned enough when talking about these things: an RDS equipped pistol makes an amazing torture training tool for dry-fire practice. It provides instant cruel and relentless feedback on one's shit trigger press, if the dot moved, you suck, try again...
Man she was trying to make you the next James Jones......Im guessing there was some Teacher/Student sex desire going on too that went right over your head.
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Their design is absolutely the best in looks. could be a hair heavier in construction but the attraction is its thin nature allowing the lowest optic mount. Its only purpose is to seal the open base of the RMR and provide a small amount of gap fill to secure the sight fore and aft during recoil.
I wont run them down here.
Lets see how he responds to my question regards the part.
Im not doing any work on it until they say "Go".
A light hit with the file/stone may be all its needs but it shouldnt need that.
The plate is more like a steel gasket. Im loathe to pressure it into place in case it bends.
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Stone it to fit and screw everything up together. Throw the VibraTite in the trash and use a proper threadlocker.
The plate is aluminum. Yeah, aluminum that thin weighs nothing. It's not printed, those are end mill marks. Don't even need to "refinish" the edge that you stone to fit it. Bare aluminum turns to aluminum oxide fairly quickly. Unlike iron oxide (aka rust), aluminum oxide is passive and once it forms a layer over bare aluminum the corrosion stops.
Been following that and Im in agreement something is amiss with that company.
They do seem to have an attractive solution for mounting to my specific gun.
Their plate incorporates a small filler to ensure the optic is secure against steel fore and aft.
Because the filler also follows the contour of the optic at the filler there is also some lateral security, perhaps 1%, but the screws will be doing the heavy work if there is any side impact. They also have the "teeth" that fit into the recess at the front of the slide optic cut - a little more security.
And.....their solution includes lugs to fit into the recoil recesses on the RMR.
View attachment 7668435
View attachment 7668434
I think this is Trijicons solution for mounting on my pistol....
AC32105 | Trijicon®
Trijicon® products are known for offering legendary reliability, absolute accuracy and industry-leading technology to shooting enthusiasts, law enforcement agencies and the U.S. military and its allies.www.trijicon.com
View attachment 7668432
The good is that Trijicon is not the shitshow CPHWS seems to be, their design incorporates recoil lugs for the RMR, The plate is bolted to the pistol using the DPP bores in the slide, than the RMR is secured, I assume, through the plate into the slide. They incorporate the "teeth" to bite into the front of the slide cut.
Searching through the internet I have seen reference that Sig and Trijicon reps (ie the guy at the counter) have recommended CPHWS in my application.
Sig/Trijicon need to come together develope a solid solution but I guess they are competitors with different concerns regards what optic to use.
Maybe I could be the guy that uses CPHWS and doesnt get screwed.
Im not like other guys........they would have just bought their shit and had a few thousand rounds on their guns by now.
I've had that plate on my AXG with RMR for a few months now. I didn't know they had issues till reading about it here. So far, mine has been great. At the time, it was the only option I could find in stock.
Mine was tight...but I got it to "snap" in with a little love tapping. I thought it was designed to be snug in the recess.
Front part has "teeth" that fit into a recess at the front of the cut. Front has to go in first.
I've fit worse fitting parts.
Only waiting/mentioning based on other concerns regarding others experiences.
@Mauser06 experience is where I will be.
Reply from CPHWS....
Phillip,
It looks like the plate is just a hair too long. If you are able to file the plate down, that should work perfectly fine. If not please let me know and I can send you a return label to send that back to us for an exchange
Response...
I agree it is a hair too long and not a fatal error.
I will stone it slightly to fit on a fine diamond sharpener.
The part is so thin I did not want to force it unless you were to reply "That's normal. Flex it slightly and let it "snap in""
Thin is a desirable feature for this product but in this case I would make the plate a couple hairs thicker.
I really like that your design is unique in including a filler piece forward of the RMR and that it incorporates recoil lugs top and bottom.
A bit thicker than a double edge razor blade and some cleanup of machining marks it would be spectacular.
Thank you,
Phillip,
It looks like the plate is just a hair too long. If you are able to file the plate down, that should work perfectly fine. If not please let me know and I can send you a return label to send that back to us for an exchange
Response...
I agree it is a hair too long and not a fatal error.
I will stone it slightly to fit on a fine diamond sharpener.
The part is so thin I did not want to force it unless you were to reply "That's normal. Flex it slightly and let it "snap in""
Thin is a desirable feature for this product but in this case I would make the plate a couple hairs thicker.
I really like that your design is unique in including a filler piece forward of the RMR and that it incorporates recoil lugs top and bottom.
A bit thicker than a double edge razor blade and some cleanup of machining marks it would be spectacular.
Thank you,
i just ordered a 2.5moa SRO, although looks like it will be a month before i get it.
seems to me there is enough bloom on a bright setting to make the dot plenty visible and then i can turn it down for more precision
this is entirely based upon other people's experience, so take that with a grain of salt.
seems to me there is enough bloom on a bright setting to make the dot plenty visible and then i can turn it down for more precision
this is entirely based upon other people's experience, so take that with a grain of salt.
6.5moa
Same on the holosun on my 43x for off duty
Bigger is better...ask the wife!
ETA: I marked the 50 and 100yd shots the rest were at 25, was trying out the threaded KKM barrel.
The FBI is going with the CHPWS plate, if it makes you feel any better, or worse, or whatever. Guaranteed they tested the shiznit out of every plate they could get their paws on.
I have the CHPWS plate on my G43X, no complaints.
I wanted an RMRcc but you have to mount it above slide level cause Trijicon had their heads up their asses.
They should have gone to a smaller battery and the smaller rds footprint instead of keeping the 2032 and making it longer back to front. It doesn't fit the MOS cut slides so you wind up with a retarded high mount if you go with the RMRcc.
It looks ridiculously high so I went with the Holosun 407k x2 on the g43x much better fit.
I wanted an RMRcc but you have to mount it above slide level cause Trijicon had their heads up their asses.
They should have gone to a smaller battery and the smaller rds footprint instead of keeping the 2032 and making it longer back to front. It doesn't fit the MOS cut slides so you wind up with a retarded high mount if you go with the RMRcc.
It looks ridiculously high so I went with the Holosun 407k x2 on the g43x much better fit.
Its a great design for including that little wedge to fill the open slot at the front of the cut to secure the optic front and rear.
Trijicons block is thick, probably would occlude the sights I plan on using and it puts all the force on the little hockey pucks and the screws.
If you get your hands on one though, seriously, a double edge razor might feel stronger.....
PS........just measured .024 thick. Half the thickness of strikeeagle1 s plate pictured above. Like I mentioned I consider it more of a steel weather gasket to mate with the rubber O-ring under the RMR. The hockey puck recoil knobs may be a little taller than .05 but not much. The bottom recoil lugs similar maybe smaller.
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I've had 2 of the adjustable trijicons shit the bed... they would not fix them and told me it was an electronics issue not covered by warranty. Fuck them lol. Those dots had no excuse to fail on range guns so fast. Ridiculous. Hell I bet the holosun could have done it easily lol.
Definitely go for cowitness sights as a backup if this gun is more than a range toy. I like to use the lower 1/3 cowitness ones.
All that said... I have had good luck with the non battery version and the non adjustable ones. I have beaten the piss out of those, keep going. Good stuff. Id buy more if they stood behind their gear when i needed them to. Never another adjustable one here, and again, fuck their customer service.
Definitely go for cowitness sights as a backup if this gun is more than a range toy. I like to use the lower 1/3 cowitness ones.
All that said... I have had good luck with the non battery version and the non adjustable ones. I have beaten the piss out of those, keep going. Good stuff. Id buy more if they stood behind their gear when i needed them to. Never another adjustable one here, and again, fuck their customer service.
Not sure if this is the place for it but being as there are numerous participant in this thread with a lot of apparent RDS experience I would like to ask how well they perform in rain,snow, dust etc...I work in a myriad of environments on everything from boats to horses etc...I have been thinking heavily about going with one for a duty gun but don’t know anyone that runs one who doesn’t work primarily in town/etc...
Thanks
Thanks
You don’t need to be able to see through the red dot to use it well - put a bright orange dot on an index card, look at something with both eyes, and hold the dot over that something. You’ll succeed every time.
Any good red dot will be sufficiently impervious to the elements; if it gets packed full of horse manure use your finger or some running water to scrape it out enough to see the lens.
I think, in no time, you won’t be able to find a decent agency NOT issuing them, they’re that big of a deal IMHO.
As a former LEO firearms trainer, it would be a zillion times easier teaching newbies target focus over the usual “front sight press” it’s been for years now. Lots of cadets have only seen guns in movies, so in many ways the dot is way better for an individual who’s new and doesn’t already have any bad habits.
That said, an enclosed emitter is probably better, I’ve shot USPSA a couple times in the rain, and all it takes is one drop on your emitter and it becomes not so great quick...
Maybe slightly off topic, but am I the only one having problems changing the battery on the Trijicon SRO? The design where you have to exert pressure on it to get past the O ring and then rotate it, despite the top being mostly covered, seems very poorly thought out.
It's not easy but it's doable.
How often are you changing it? I have an RMR that has been on for almost 18 months continuously.
I use an RMR for daily CC. So it's not exposed to rain but it's exposed to a ton of lint since I almost always wear a cotton undershirt. It has to be a shit ton of dust before the lens becomes impaired to the point that the reflected dot is deformed.
Pay close attention to what @gnochi has to say. A lot of people make the mistake of focusing on the dot as it if were a front sight and/or trying to see the world through the RDS lens. The best analogy I can give you is how you use your vision as you drive. Imagine driving a car with a HUD display. Do you drive with your vision soft focused on the road and surroundings ahead and the HUD display in your peripheral vision or do you stare are the HUD display on the glass as you try to stay within the lane? Same exact thing with an RDS.
The correct way to use one is to soft focus on the target with both eyes and let the dot just appear there through hand eye coordination. Focusing on the dot will make you extremely slow in target acquisition, follow up shots, and target transitions. How do you know you're doing it right? Put a piece of opaque tape (masking tape works well) over the front of the RDS lens and shoot the pistol. If all you see is a red dot and no targets, you're trying to see the world through the sight with both eyes. If your eyes are working correctly, the tape will be invisible and the dot will appear right on target even though you can't see through the sight itself. What is happening is binocular vision: your strong eye sees the dot, your weak eye sees the target, the brain superimposes both images into one.
I use an SRO for USPSA competition and training and have had to shoot in the rain a few times. It did fine. Water on the glass can distort the dot somewhat but it's still right where it needs to be and you can make hits just fine. Once you fire, the g forces will clear off a lot of the water off the lens. I've never had water get on the emitter, mostly because the emitter is facing down at the ground (and protected from rain) when the pistol is in the holster. Trijicon RDS have drain holes on the housing to either side of the emitter as well.
This is a good demo, I think
BTW, even thought the emitter is not exposed to the elements in a closed RDS like the Aimpoint ACRO or Holosun 509, they still have lenses and you will still have the same issues with water on the lenses with a closed emitter RDS unless your holster has some flap to cover the optic.
Just talking to someone today and if you develop the muscle memory and in the context of defensive pistol at self defense ranges, you probably dont need any sights
That and framing the target in the optic's window. A smaller window (RMR) provides better accuracy than a large one (SRO).
But again, context is everything. At the distances where a self defense shooting would be justifiable I can land effective hits with the dot off, though I will be slower. How much slower depends in part on the size of the RDS lens. If I were a cop, I would definitely have BUIS on the gun.
We also did a test in class to try parallax effect at 25 yards. It is negligible.
This is the first time I've tried. I may have cross threaded it. Will probably send in and then sell to get another RMR.
This. Change the battery just before a range trip so you can confirm the zero on paper, but a quick verification of the dot to the iron sights will temporarily suffice if one finds themselves in a pinch. If the mounting system has good mechanical registration, the alignment after the battery swap will likely be "good enough" for practical purposes. I've put a click or two on the adjustments after R&R, but that might have just been to make me feel good about doing something.
I think my record for an RMR battery was around 3 years for a pistol that got neglected during a dry spell. I know everyone says something like "replace the batteries on your birthday" (or substitute your own significant date), but I'll tell you what - if the wife is dressing up in something for my eyes only on that particular day, I'd have absolutely zero concern if I had to push back the battery swap by a week or month or whatever.
Just handled my co-workers gun.......er pistol......
He had three pistols, three dots....SRO in a 5MOA, and two Romeo 1s, one in 3.25MOA and one in 6.25MOA.
Toss up for me between the 3 and 6 but I decided to go with the 6.
RMR in 6 ordered.
Thinking is the only thing I want from an RMR is speed at realistic pistol distances.
A 6 MOA may cover a target at 100 yards for should I ever want to show off but I really hope at those distances I have a rifle.
I will carry the AXG on occasion and the more identifiable, stable dot at 10 yards and in is to my thinking an advantage.
Should arrive by Thursday according to B&H. Ill see how it fits up with the CPHWS plate.
Thinking in the back of my mind I may still want the sealing plate and Trij hardware Sig sells. I have a class up there next week so if I run into issues with what I have now I can buy parts.
Everyone start calling Suarez and ask them to make some more plain black Sig cowitness height sites please.
He had three pistols, three dots....SRO in a 5MOA, and two Romeo 1s, one in 3.25MOA and one in 6.25MOA.
Toss up for me between the 3 and 6 but I decided to go with the 6.
RMR in 6 ordered.
Thinking is the only thing I want from an RMR is speed at realistic pistol distances.
A 6 MOA may cover a target at 100 yards for should I ever want to show off but I really hope at those distances I have a rifle.
I will carry the AXG on occasion and the more identifiable, stable dot at 10 yards and in is to my thinking an advantage.
Should arrive by Thursday according to B&H. Ill see how it fits up with the CPHWS plate.
Thinking in the back of my mind I may still want the sealing plate and Trij hardware Sig sells. I have a class up there next week so if I run into issues with what I have now I can buy parts.
Everyone start calling Suarez and ask them to make some more plain black Sig cowitness height sites please.
We all hear this all the time... but thing is, with something like 9mm at 100 yards, we won't really be covering up shit, because most of us will need ~6"-7" or more of hold-over due to the bullet drop and will have to guess a little anyways.
Also, not really a "rifle" but: for a while, when I was shooting a lot of USPSA, I was running a 5moa dot on my CO Shadow and a 2moa dot on my PCC MPX. Everything was fine, but one day I tried my spare/back-up 5moa SRO on the MPX. Nothing felt any different to me at all really going from the 2moa to the 5moa dot, but according to the timer, I was faster with the 5moa dot pretty much each and every time, shooting just as accurately (or inaccurately) regardless of dot size, just easier to be fast with the bigger one.
These days, even if I was putting together something in a small rifle caliber like another AR or something, unless I was planning to run a magnifier behind it sometimes, I'd go 5-6moa vs the smaller dots for that too.
Delivered
2 products in this order
FedEx Home Delivery
Enjoy Your Purchase
Delivered: Wednesday, Jul 28
Hasnt even been 24 hours since I ordered.
If that RMR is at my house when I get home I will be impressed.
2 products in this order
Enjoy Your Purchase
Delivered: Wednesday, Jul 28
Hasnt even been 24 hours since I ordered.
If that RMR is at my house when I get home I will be impressed.
Havent mofified it yet. Wanted to place it under the RMR before I make it "non returnable".
Ill expect it to show an ability to properly seal the gasket, recoil bosses fit reasonably tight, has a general ability to help rather than hinder what I expect it to do.
You buy the extra $15 gasket? I just don’t see needing it.
Nope.
If I dont think the CPHWS plate will be substantial enough I will buy one while at Sig next weekend.
Ideal install is that CPHWS is all that is needed. RMR will be low as possible on slide.
Next best will be sealing plate over CPHWS. Probably be .05 inches with both plates.
Best engineered but highest install will be if I have to scrap the CPHWS entirely and go with the Trijicon plate.
What target do you think you're going to cover at 100yds with a 6moa dot?
A full size ipsc you'll have plenty of real estate to work with. If you're thinking: "it'll cover a 6" plate" you're right, you're also not hitting a six inch plate at 100yds with a pistol so it's moot
A full size ipsc you'll have plenty of real estate to work with. If you're thinking: "it'll cover a 6" plate" you're right, you're also not hitting a six inch plate at 100yds with a pistol so it's moot
Correct......nor do I ever see myself being in a moment where I say to someone "Watch this...." and take a 100 yard shot.
Besides as noted earlier the dot isnt going to be on intended point of impact. If anything the dot will be giving the silhouette/target a red hairdo and you will be happy to create nipples and belly buttons.
Had to work the screws to break the CeraKote in the mount bores..
