Reloading .308 with a Lee classic loader without a powder scale

Tanman

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Minuteman
Jul 23, 2009
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Richmond, VA
So, like many people these days, I'm new to reloading. The first thing I acquired was a Lee classic loader to hand load for my Remington 700p.
I'm using Varget, CCI no.200 large rifle primers and Sierra 168 gr. hpbt bullets.
Question is, can I use the 3.1 cc scoop that came with the loader kit, or do I need to go get a powder scale?
The recommended charge on the container is 46.0 gr, I think the scoop is equal to 43. something.
Is it worth even trying with just the scoop?
 
No.......................you want a scale AND a reloading manual. The scoop is by volume and unless your optimum charge is exactly at the volume/weight of a level scoop you will never be able to deviate from it (other than guesswork.) A well read handloading manual is.................priceless!
 
The lee chart shows the 3.1cc scoop of varget @ 42.4gr. Your loads may be mild, but I'd go ahead and use it. You can get a throw and a scale later when you're ready to load with some more oomph.
 
That loader has limitations, but for an entry level device, I can't find fault. The scoop method works for relatively mild loads, you shouldn't have a problem as long as you just make one pass through as stated in the instructions. After several reloads, you will either need to invest in a trimer and a scale, or buy more brass, or get a conventional press and dies, but at least you will have a basic foundation and understanding of how it works. That's how I started many years ago. BB
 
Forgot to mention, I have the hornady reloading manual, and have been reading about reloading for a while, but this would be my first actual attempt.
The scale is the next item I plan on buying (I hear I may be better off with a beam scale opposed to a digital).
A friend cleaned and chamfered my brass for me.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't loading too hot for that bullet with the scoop.
Sounds like it's ok to load a few and see how they do.
 
. . . The scale is the next item I plan on buying (I hear I may be better off with a beam scale opposed to a digital). . . . Sounds like it's ok to load a few and see how they do.
As said above, the Lee scoop is ok for light loads, and I'm sure you can appreciate those loads will not be as consistent as a good scale might deliver. So cut your rifle some slack if things don't work out in the "tight group" department :)

As for which scale . . . IMO the bottom line is a GOOD beam scale is the best approach. I think my scale story is all too familiar to many . . .

I started with the Lee scale (~$25) which does not come with a calibration weight, so the only calibration is to "0". This scale WORKS, but the ergonomics are painful . . . the gradations are hard to read, the pin used to hold the scale at a set point is hard to use and often changes the set point, and the calibration dial is so loose it tends to spin out of calibration on it's own :(

So I bought a Hornady GS1500 digital scale (~$34). it comes with a 100g check weight, so you can calibrate the scale at "0" and at 1,543gr . . . leaving you somewhat in doubt everywhere in between :( It does not consistently give the same weight for the same load . . . and the reading often flutters, despite running only on batteries. Finally, in order to save battery life, it shuts itself off very quickly, so if I "tare" a case, fill it with powder, and come back to the scale to weigh the powder . . . the scale is often shut off.

Next stop was a Pact dispenser/scale (~$300 IIRC). Long story short . . . too much fluttering, inconsistent readings for the same load, frequent overshooting/undershooting.

Next came the RCBS 5-0-5 ($93) and a set of RCBS check weights (~$31) :). Now I could zero the scale, and see what it said at a load very close if not exactly the load I actually wanted :) (BTW, this is the setup - or the Lee scale + check weights if budget requires - that I would recommend to start with.) Not perfectly consistent, but boy it "guessed" the weight of each of my check weights very very well.

As a digital die-hard I couldn't resist a GemPro 250 (~$125) after reading several glowing reviews. With one exception, it works very very well on batteries, again guessing correctly at each and every check weight I threw at it. Turned the scale off after a 2 hour loading session and came back the next day to a "low battery" signal. Turns out the thing eats batteries like candy! When used on its wall-wart transformer, the scale often but not always exhibits all the fluttering and inconsistencies of other digital scales. The one exception? It does not trickle well, taking long to respond and often building in a cumulative error that you have to be on guard for. But it is very useful in non-trickle situations . . . like "how much does this weigh?" . . . where a beam scale is tedious at best.

So when I want exact charges, I use the Pact to throw 0.1gr low (so it does not overshoot), throw the powder into the RCBS 5-0-5 and use a Redding hand trickler to top it off, then throw it on my GemPro for a final opinion. If/when the scales start to disagree, I re-calibrate and continue on.

This sort of thing is a well-trodden path. Some accept the digital issues knowing their charge is close enough for government work (and safety). Some do not. But for me, a beam scale and a set of USEFUL check weights are indispensable tools. YMMV.
 
Interesting narrative above. Lots of options. You are reminded that virtually all competitive benchresters use thrown charges for their one hole groups. With very expensive powder measurers, I might add. I began by weighing my charges and try as I might, can't get out of the habit. My theory; can't hurt. BB
 
I used a lee loader and a $20 digital scale from eBay and got very consistent under 1 moa from a $400 dicks special rem 700. The cheap scales maybe not be ultra accurate, but they are generally very repeatable which is what is important. Do ocw with a cheap digital scale and you'll get decent results even from a cheap rifle.
 
If your friend has a scale borrow his to see what that dipper of Varget weighs. You can make the size that you want with an empty case (45/70), just cut it to the correct length or fill it with epoxy until it holds exactly how much you want to use. Remember the Lee Loader only sizes the necks, you will need to FL size the cases at some point.....or just get new brass.
 
I started with the LEE Loader. But soon bought the scale and Book. it is very limited but i great teaching tool. I use the Lee scale now and have great results with it.
 
Also, does anyone know how you tell you are setting the overall length on the loader without actually loading a round? I was just gonna start longer so if it's wrong, I can just dial it down shorter rather than starting off too short and having to pull bullets...
 
When I started I loaded to the crimp groove. If you want to load to your rifle you will need more tools. A micrometer is around $40 for a basic one.
 
Your consistence will be poor....get a scale, for safety and accuracy. With supplies the way they are on the market, I wouldn't waste time or supplies if I were to know I wasn't going to get the most accuracy from what I have. I'm getting ready to post mine for sale on here if you were going to be looking to buy soon...not to mention there are some on here already. I have a Lyman digital and a Redding #2 beam.
 
If budget is a concern go with the Lee safety scale, its only $25 and is pretty accurate. It doesn't look like much, but you would be surprised. If you can put more money, a RCBS 5-0-2 will do everything you need. It is the one I use and its only $69 at Sportsman's Warehouse.

One other thing, if you decide to use the dipper method, do no tap the powder spoon to pack the powder. You scoop and swish it side to side to remove any excess. Gives you a more consistent throw that way.

Have fun and be safe ...tap..tap...tap...
 
budget digital scale just get a cheap Frankford Arsenol scale. Can find them most any sporting goods store for around 20-25 dollars. Better to be safe then sorry

I have to say that the FA scale is a great bang for the buck, I've had mine for close to a year and have loaded a couple thousand rounds using it with out any issues. The problem with the scoops is that the charge can greatly vary. I would purchase the FA digital scale, it saves a ton of time if you weigh out each charge (I do this with my bolt gun loads) or need to quick check a charge.

OP, a quick bit of advise if you decided to purchase a press is don't waste your money on cheap case prep tools. I'm still using the Lee single stage press out of the Breech Lock Challenger kit I purchased but I have upgraded pretty much everything else that came with the kit. One of the biggest time robbers with the kit was case trimming. I was spending close to an hour per 100 (223/308) using the hand cutter/case length gauge, and that was using the shell holder chucked up in a drill. On top of that my hands hurt bad after a trimming session. While looking at products to upgrade my trimmer I thought that the Worlds Finest Trimmer was too expensive to only trim one caliber, but I smartened up and bought one in 223, it pretty much paid for itself after a few uses. It cut way down on time and no more sore hands. Another product that will really help out is a powered case prep center, it might seem like an expensive purchase, but compared to prepping a couple hundred rounds by hand it saves a ton of time and really cuts down on fatigue.
 
Your consistence will be poor....get a scale, for safety and accuracy. With supplies the way they are on the market, I wouldn't waste time or supplies if I were to know I wasn't going to get the most accuracy from what I have. I'm getting ready to post mine for sale on here if you were going to be looking to buy soon...not to mention there are some on here already. I have a Lyman digital and a Redding #2 beam.

+1 Get a scale wether it be a triple beam or a digital anything is better than the scoop for accurate loads.
 
It is not dangerous. It is limited. It is only dangerous when misused. Just like a firearm.

I have to disagree.

Different types of powders can net different charge weights. Plus, a slightly heaping scoop can be way different than a level/flush scoop. Different bullet weights and seating depths can alter your pressure significantly. For someone who is just getting into reloading, this can be dangerous.

Will it be an issue? Probably not. But it could be.
 
I have to disagree.

Different types of powders can net different charge weights. Plus, a slightly heaping scoop can be way different than a level/flush scoop. Different bullet weights and seating depths can alter your pressure significantly. For someone who is just getting into reloading, this can be dangerous.

Will it be an issue? Probably not. But it could be.

It comes with instructions on what powders weigh at that volume. They have been in use for 40 years or more. Also ALL manual powder chargers are by volume. They are just weight checked on a scale. They are 100% safe when you follow directions.
 
It comes with instructions on what powders weigh at that volume. They have been in use for 40 years or more. Also ALL manual powder chargers are by volume. They are just weight checked on a scale. They are 100% safe when you follow directions.

I still disagree. Like I said, probably won't be a problem, but it could be. A scale is $20. No reason not to get one.
 
I use a Lee Clasic Cast and love it. In regard to a scale, a good beam scale is important. I use mine to check my Franklyn digital ($30) that use all the time. Very accurate and simple to use. What ever scale you use inure it is consistent. Start low and build your charges up in small numbers (.10 grains).
 
I still disagree. Like I said, probably won't be a problem, but it could be. A scale is $20. No reason not to get one.

I understand your concern. But, you obviously have no experience with the Lee Loader or how to properly use the scoop, the instructions are very clear and they include a scoop that is appropriate
for the cartridge being loaded. Besides, when in the field, under windy conditions, your scale is useless. Bender knows what he is talking about, and.....
BB
 
I understand your concern. But, you obviously have no experience with the Lee Loader or how to properly use the scoop, the instructions are very clear and they include a scoop that is appropriate
for the cartridge being loaded. Besides, when in the field, under windy conditions, your scale is useless. Bender knows what he is talking about, and.....
BB

Wrong. I own one and understand perfectly how it works. But I still disagree and think using a scoop in not ideal and definitely more dangerous than using a proper scale.
 
I think I'm gonna load 10 or so rounds with the scoop just to see how they do.
Looks like I will have a scale soon enough though, a gentleman on here offered his for the price of shipping along with some other items that will be of use to me.
Cheers!
 
Tanman - I use the scoops for reloading. I find it far easier and faster to pour a scoop in the balance pan than wait for the chargemaster to trickle it. YMMV on that score. However, because I'm weighing every charge to +/- 1/2 kernel on a precision analytical balance, I can tell you that the scoops are nowhere close to reproducible. Your charge weights may vary by as much as 0.05 to 0.1 gr (the bigger the kernel, the more variation the scoop will give).

But that is not necessarily the most critical thing as all it means is that your extreme spreads will be pretty large. The most important thing is to use the correct scoop. Using a bunch of different powders with a wide range of kernel sizes, I have found the "volumes" listed for each scoop really don't have much bearing on the weight of powder they deliver. It will be important for you to use the correct size that will not potentially put some of your charge weights in an unsafe zone. I just weighed several scoops of Varget, each one as close to full with the powder flat/not over the rim with the 3.1 cc scoop, and the charge weights ranged from ~43.65 to 44.20 gr. If you're ok with that, have at it.

My suggestion would be to wait for the scale, because 46 gr of Varget would be an extremely hot load in most .308s. Mid 44s to low/mid 45 gr range is probably more realistic for your rifle, which unfortunately may be pretty close to the range of powder you'll be delivering with the scoop. If you don't wait for the scale, just be sure not to load the scoop above the rim and you'll probably be fine with Varget; I doubt you can get anywhere close to 46 gr as long as the scoop isn't filled over the top.
 
I use the lee scoops to load powder on my digital scale. They work ok but it is easy to get a varience of .1 to .7 gr from scoop to scoop. Long powders will give you the largest varience. Keep that in mind. Load toward the middle of your charge range.
 
Dude, you are belaboring the issue. An idiot can cause anything, including a scoop, to be dangerous. Go ahead, google it and see how many folks got dangerous with their scoop. BB
 
If one follows the lee manual and sticks to a middle node, the likelihood of an incident is very low. For loading up hunting or plinking rounds, really not an issue.

If a reloader decides to roll some match grade ammo, a scale will be an invaluable tool. The safety factor is ultimate, but its all about learning good habits from the get.