Gunsmithing Remage Tenon size................. a little help PLEASE

[jdemp1]

So I ck fit a new prefit remage and it is sloppy as hell, I mean pretty bad. I call maker and ask what parameters did they cut it to. Reply was we hold very close to the factory spec's.....1.062 x 16...... So I mic it and come up with 1.044 od................Factory said to send it in to be checked which I expected, to their credit !
Now I have cut and chambered quite a few barrels,not to the degree as some of our Hide members but never saw this much slop. I usually hold .003--to .005 undersize when I use a single point tool putting it at 1.062-.005 or 1.057
Could someone please measure their prefit for me, like to see what others come up with
Thanks Guys !

 

[LRI]

Without parts in hand, this is pure speculation, but it would seem there is a little more going to this.

1.0625" minus 1.044" is only .0185" difference in diameter or .00925" across the radius. In layman's terms, we're talking between 3 and 6 (maybe 7) sheets of notebook paper for additional clearance over the radius/diameter. -Not very much.

Based on what I've experienced, major/minor diameters typically don't influence thread fits nearly as much as thread pitch diameter does. One has to look at how the opposing flank features on the thread profiles engage with one another to really begin to understand how the joint might flop around when it is not tight.

The good thing here is it (a 55* or 60* thread form) really doesn't have a negative impact on performance which is largely contrary to what a lot of shooters believe. The nature of the threaded joint is that with a load applied to the flanks, they tend to naturally center themselves. One thing to understand is that a 60* thread form does not load across its length the way one might think. Typically, the business end of the joint is really the only portion of the thread length that is truly engaged/loaded once its tight. That distance is typically 3-4, maybe 5 pitches deep from the shoulder. The rest is basically backup and/or along for the ride. The "Spiralok" thing became a fad in the gun world a decade or so ago as an attempt to solve this "problem". Basically it too resulted in a bunch of stuck barrels. If you could get around that issue, the next challenge was dealing with inserts priced so ridiculously expensive that it was largely prohibitive to pursue.

Once upon a time, I invested an absurd amount of effort (money) into this subject matter and what I ended up with was a bunch of ruined barrels that had glued themselves to receivers because they galled. No grease alive will mitigate 2 pieces of bubble gum stainless rubbing against one another at 100lbs ft. For me here, the std practice anymore is to run threads to the gauge standard and be done with it. Since doing so we've not had the scrap to deal with and performance has not skipped a beat.

It's great that the OEM took care of you, but in all likelihood, the rifle would have shot just fine.

C.

 

[jdemp1]

Without parts in hand, this is pure speculation, but it would seem there is a little more going to this.

1.0625" minus 1.044" is only .0185" difference in diameter or .00925" across the radius. In layman's terms, we're talking between 3 and 6 (maybe 7) sheets of notebook paper for additional clearance over the radius/diameter. -Not very much.

Based on what I've experienced, major/minor diameters typically don't influence thread fits nearly as much as thread pitch diameter does. One has to look at how the opposing flank features on the thread profiles engage with one another to really begin to understand how the joint might flop around when it is not tight.

The good thing here is it (a 55* or 60* thread form) really doesn't have a negative impact on performance which is largely contrary to what a lot of shooters believe. The nature of the threaded joint is that with a load applied to the flanks, they tend to naturally center themselves. One thing to understand is that a 60* thread form does not load across its length the way one might think. Typically, the business end of the joint is really the only portion of the thread length that is truly engaged/loaded once its tight. That distance is typically 3-4, maybe 5 pitches deep from the shoulder. The rest is basically backup and/or along for the ride. The "Spiralok" thing became a fad in the gun world a decade or so ago as an attempt to solve this "problem". Basically it too resulted in a bunch of stuck barrels. If you could get around that issue, the next challenge was dealing with inserts priced so ridiculously expensive that it was largely prohibitive to pursue.

Once upon a time, I invested an absurd amount of effort (money) into this subject matter and what I ended up with was a bunch of ruined barrels that had glued themselves to receivers because they galled. No grease alive will mitigate 2 pieces of bubble gum stainless rubbing against one another at 100lbs ft. For me here, the std practice anymore is to run threads to the gauge standard and be done with it. Since doing so we've not had the scrap to deal with and performance has not skipped a beat.

It's great that the OEM took care of you, but in all likelihood, the rifle would have shot just fine.

C.

Thank you, very informative reply, while I agree for the most part, I really believe the tolerance is a bit to loose. While as I stated i have done some barrels in the past I never had anywhere this amount of slop..............was just a bit concerned and rightly so when dealing with 60,000 psi near my face.
My bet is I get another barrel back with tighter spec's........no worries this one probably just slipped by Hey IT happens even to a world class barrel maker
I have used 7 or 8 of their barrels over 20 yrs never a problem but this was prefit as I've been wiring up my Lathe

 

[FisherT&C]

typically rem-age barrels are class 3 threads which means they're due to fit a little loose for the sake of universal application. My recent production Remington 700 action is probably a class 2 thread, my old factory barrel is spot on class 3. This is probably done on purpose to unsure things mate up easily during mass production. When I thread a barrel to fit my Remington action I can't even get a class 3 gauge started on it.
The slack in the threads will be taken up when torqued, I've never heard of an action fail at the threads during firing. Normally failure happens at the bolt face, lug and breech interface.

 

[Evlshnngns]

It would be a spectacle to see the barrel become the projectile. I have heard of this before on savage pre fits, good they are taking care of it.

 

[jdemp1]

It would be a spectacle to see the barrel become the projectile. I have heard of this before on savage pre fits, good they are taking care of it.

Yup, I would expect nothing else from a quality barrel maker !

 

[jdemp1]

typically rem-age barrels are class 3 threads which means they're due to fit a little loose for the sake of universal application. My recent production Remington 700 action is probably a class 2 thread, my old factory barrel is spot on class 3. This is probably done on purpose to unsure things mate up easily during mass production. When I thread a barrel to fit my Remington action I can't even get a class 3 gauge started on it.
The slack in the threads will be taken up when torqued, I've never heard of an action fail at the threads during firing. Normally failure happens at the bolt face, lug and breech interface.

I understand but it just doesn't set right with me there is really too much slop, I don't think it would fail myself. Yeah I'm pretty anal about stuff like this it I had cut it and it was this sloppy I would have redone it for sure.

 

[FisherT&C]

I respect your decision, getting it to fit better won't hurt a thing. Doubt in I a rifle can weight on you when things are unsettling.