Remington M700 or Winchester M70

[TheMachinist]

I've got a question for those who had a chance to really compare in the field as to their likes and/or dislikes when comparing a Remington M700 to a Winchester M70.

I've spent considerable time doing research on the subject, but would like to know what your opinions are on the subject are here. I've learned a lot from the folks here that I work with, but there opinion may be slightly biased on the subject.

It seems from my research that Remington's are preferred because of their inherit accuracy out of the box and customization qualities. Winchester M70's seem to be more temperamental, but those reasons are easy accountable, from a pure machinist standpoint.

We have some prototypes here to play with which are built on the Winchester M70 design, but using what they refer to as "Push feeding" rather than "Controlled Round Feeding". The factory Remington's that are here for inspection are much smoother feeling when operating the bolt than the Winchester's, but the custom prototype Winchester M70's are much smoother feeling than all the rest. But, that is mostly due to the higher end machining than a factory receiver.

I personally like the safety on the Winchester rifles compared to the Remington's but that is only my take on things. Since from my view of machining here, there seems to be a 95% of the market in Remington's, any reason why?

The Machinist

 

[Blackhawk95]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

I can tell you this about my worked over win M70. it shoots pretty good. the action has been trued and I have 2 broughton barrels for it. One a 5c 8 twist in 6MMBR and the other is a 7.5 twist .243AI. in a manners T4 stock both calibers will shoot 1 to 1.25 inch 5 shot groups at 300 yard. right at .37moa.

Action work seem to be a little cheaper on them too. But there isnt alot of aftermarket parts for them though. I do have a Jewell trigger on mine to.

With that said, Ive got a M70 short action magnum action im going to build into a 7mm Rsaum.

If you got one, use it.. might not fetch as much as a Rem if you want to sell it though.

I dont even have a Rem, so I couldnt tell you witch I like better.

Jerid

 

[TheMachinist]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Jerid,

Thanks for your comments. Do have a controlled-round feeding (Pre-64) or push feed (Post-64) receiver. Seems the push feed is much cheaper to obtain than the controlled round (Claw Extractor) design.

The Machinist

 

[ashland]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Machinist:

I have a Post 64 Mod 70 that I got a good deal on many years ago. I put a match barrel on it and shot 1,000 yd BR for a couple of years then rebarreled it this year for tactical. Its been at a smith for a couple of weeks due to trigger and bolt problems. I bought a Jewell for it and it has required some work to get it to fit properly. Also the firing pin and the sear ramp has had to be replaced. Right now I am waiting to see if these replacements get it up and running. If this smith can't fix it, I will have an expensive paper weight and I'm headed to RO in July. Might have to rent a rifle. I guess what I'm trying to say is go with the Remington. The aftermarket for it is much better. I would not get another Mod 70 due to these problems.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

"It seems from my research that Remington's are preferred because of their inherit accuracy out of the box and customization qualities. "

i think you pretty well got er figured out

 

[doc76251]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Remmy is akin to the Chevy 350 SB as Winny is akin to the Ford 351W. You can find parts for both one generaly requires that you send out for it as opposed to finding it on the shelf.

As far as differences I personaly prefer the Winny trigger as they are bomb proof, simple and user adjustable to a great extent. Remmy triggers have too many parts IMHO and are generaly tossed at first oportunity or "worked over" extensively. Then there is the safety. I LIKE the safety on the bolt (where it belongs IMHO) it doesn't interfear with the trigger function and makes the trigger a dedicated unit as opposed to a dual duty like on the Remmy. The option to take the bolt out of the gun or down load the rifle w/o taking off the safety is HUGE IMHO, Winny gets the nod again.

The bolts on the Post 64's are essentialy the same as a Remmy but they have an actual extractor that can be replaced / modified as opposed to the rivited in peice of sheet spring.

Receivers are what they are. The Remmy is a round tube with a floating recoil lug (OK it doesn't float its sammiched between the barrel and the receiver) The winny recoil lug is integral with the receiver and the barrel just bolts on.

I view custom tactical guns to be like NASCAR's. The only thing that even resembles the stock showroom gun after a smith is done with them is the name plate. All else has been tweeked and trued. The only thing you need to figure is which structural components mean the most to you. I like Winny's for all the above after they have been through the smith mill.

.02 for the pot

Cheers,

Doc

 

[ashland]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Doc:

Can you recommend a good Winny smith? I might need one.

 

[willsnipe]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ashland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc:

Can you recommend a good Winny smith? I might need one. </div></div>

I can. I'll PM you the info.

I was getting ready to build a new 300 Win, and at almost the same moment, I ran across great deals on an A-4 and a CRF action so I took it as a sign from above. It turned out wonderful! They take a little more work than the Rems, but I think I'd do it again.

If all you're looking for is the safety, there are several folks making similar aftermarket safeties for the 700.

 

[ashland]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Thanks willsnipe. PM sent.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ashland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc:

Can you recommend a good Winny smith? I might need one. </div></div>

I'm partial to Jered Joplin and David at APA. I spent 2 days in thier shop and I still can't get over the craftsmanship that I saw being demonstrated there. They will do my next stick.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Blackhawk95]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Machinist,

Mine is a Push feed post 64. long action. Ive also have a post 64 short action mag.

My long action gun is the switch barrel gun. real easy to do. maybe 10min start to finish.

 

[TheMachinist]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The bolts on the Post 64's are essentialy the same as a Remmy but they have an actual extractor that can be replaced / modified as opposed to the rivited in peice of sheet spring.

Doc </div></div>

Doc,

Thank you for your experience and input. Other than stated, is their any advantage/disadvantage between the Pre 64's and Post 64's extractor in actual function?

The Machinist

 

[mtm87tx]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

i thought the remingtons were the best out of the box to, until i bought a SPR

 

[TheMachinist]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtm87tx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i thought the remingtons were the best out of the box to, until i bought a SPR </div></div>

Just so happens, I know what an FN SPR is

, benefits of being a machinist lately. I just haven't had the chance to shoot one yet though.

The Machinist

 

[tmpohuski7]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

i have a pre 64 model 70 cut to 20" in 308 out to 1000 still tacdriver with factory 175 gmm

 

[doc76251]

Re: Remington M700 or Winchester M70

Pre64 is the Mauser type extractor. It picks up (I should say traps) the rim of the case under the extractor as it is stripped from the magazine. This feature is exceptionaly wonderful if you are hunting dangerous game (or so they say) the biggest benifit is that you can cycle the bolt in any position and it will feed. The biggest hinderence is that while possible it is deterious to your extractor to single load w/o loading from the magazine. In some tightly fitted guns it is possible to break off the lip of the extractor when chambering a round off the top of the mag.

In the Post 64 the bolt was essentially the same as Remmy with a circumfrential bolt face but it had/has IMHO a better extractor as stated in my previous post. This bolt "pushes" the round forward from the magazine but it is not controlled and conceptualy if you stop the bolt push too soon the round "could' fall out if the gun was canted enough. The round is not "controlled" until the extractor snaps over which is usualy at full push.

Short history lesson of poor timing.

In '64 Winchester developed and marketed the new bolt. The hew and cry from riflemen across the US was front page news. The Pre-64 was the golden standard of rifles and most American riflemen felt betrayed by Winchester for going to some "modern cockamamie design" (S&W suffered this recently with thier caving to gun control legislators). Fast forward a year or two and Remmy introduced "3 rings of steel" in thier model 700 bolt design. Thier add campaign was extensive and effective.

Fast forward another year or so and the U.S. Military began seeking a new "sniper rifle". The foul taste of betrayal left by Winchester's adimant refusal to make any more "real rifles" combined with Remmy's add campaign resulted in a total paridigme shift in the rifle world. The Remmy 700 was selected as the basis for the USMC M40 sniper rifle. With the massive buying power of the Gov't the Remmy took off. Everyone and thier brother began producing parts for the "new Gov't gun". Hence you now have the Chevy small block level of parts, modification and addoration. Lets face it any knuckle head with a lathe can make a Remmy / Post 64 bolt face. It took hand fitting to get the Mauser type bolt to operate efficiently. Winchester never recovered from thier poorly timed change to modern methods even though IMHO thier design is superior to a rivited in piece of sheet metal as an extractor.

That's all I have to say about that.........

Cheers,

Doc