*resolved* Educate me on steel targets...

[westford86]

<span style="color: #FF0000">*I placed an order for the Big Dog 1/2" dueling tree. Thanks for the input everyone. *</span>

My dad's birthday is coming up at the end of the month and I want to get him a dueling tree.

The tree will mostly be used for pistols, 9mm through 454 casull, and maybe 5.7. However, if it could handle 5.56 and 7.62 that would be great. He also has a 22-250 that he's very fond of, but most of his hand loads are around 3700 fps. I wonder if it might be to much for AR500 or 550? From what I've read steel targets don't hold up well to rounds over 3000 fps?

Here are the options that I'm looking at...



Big Dog Steel - http://www.bigdogsteel.com/duelingtree1.html

AR500 steel, 5" targets (the other two options are 6")

3/8" - $450 (shipping included)
1/2" - $525 (shipping included)

Pricey, but not the worst of the bunch... They seem well constructed, and they are the only ones who offer 1/2" plates, but I'm not sure of the premium price is worth it?

I'm also not sure about the spring assisted return. I don't know why a dueling tree needs a spring return??

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Custom Metal Products - http://www.custommetalprod.com/shooting-targets/dueling-tree-targets

3/8" AR500 Steel, 6" targets - $250 + $40 shipping *$290 in total*

I really like that the post and base assemble without tools for easy transport, as it will have to be transported to the range. It's also the most economical option, and that is very appealing. However, it's the weakest of the bunch (Big Dog offers 1/2" plate, and AT offers 550 stell), and I don't see it holding up to much rifle fire. And knowing my Dad, he'll eventually get curious and shoot it with a rifle...

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Action Target - http://www.actiontarget.com/store/duelingtargets/at-dueling-tree-ar550.html

3/8" AR500 steel 6" targets - $399 + $121 shipping *$520 in total*
3/8" AR550 steel 6" targets - $499 + $121 shipping *$620 in total*

Expensive... Are they really worth it? I don't get the design, why is there a piece of the target sticking out from behind the splash plate? It's just doesn't look clean to me. While I like the idea of getting the AR550 steel, I doubt I can afford it at the moment. Also, would 1/2" of AR500 (Big Dog) match the performance of 3/8" of AR550?



So if you know a thing or two about steel targets, I could use some input to help make my decision.

 

[AKAce]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

The Spring Return on Bigdogs Tree makes sure the targets Snap into the new position, instead of relying on gravity. They work well.

You won't want to hit the steel faster than 2900 - 3000 FPS unless you like replacing plates every year... Speed Kills Steel.

 

[westford86]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ~Ace~</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Spring Return on Bigdogs Tree makes sure the targets Snap into the new position, instead of relying on gravity. They work well.

You won't want to hit the steel faster than 2900 - 3000 FPS unless you like replacing plates every year... Speed Kills Steel.

</div></div>

Hmmm, I wish they had a picture on their site to illustrate how it works. It's just seems like unnecessary feature that will wear out or break eventually...

However, if they work well, why not.

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

I guess I should chime in here... We don't post pictures of the mechanism because we don't want it to show up on anyone else's tree.

Ace hit the nail on the head, the springs help snap the target into position. They also help to keep it there so it does not "bounce" back over to the original side. You can run the tree without the springs, but after running it with the springs you won't want too. We have lots of our trees out there now and I would put them up againt anyone's tree in existance. Our's are built to take a beating. Our 1/2" thick model is truly made for rifles. The entire length of the tree adjacent to the targets is armored with 1/2" thick AR500. That's on top of the standard heavy angle we use for the tree.

All of our paddles are easily removeable and replaceable. All the trees come with grade 8 hinge bolts. Our new model trees even have 3/8" thick AR500 hinges.

We are not the cheapest tree on the market, but we do offer a competitive price, and in my own biased opinion, the best built dueling tree for the price.

 

[westford86]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I should chime in here... We don't post pictures of the mechanism because we don't want it to show up on anyone else's tree.

Ace hit the nail on the head, the springs help snap the target into position. They also help to keep it there so it does not "bounce" back over to the original side. You can run the tree without the springs, but after running it with the springs you won't want too. We have lots of our trees out there now and I would put them up againt anyone's tree in existance. Our's are built to take a beating. Our 1/2" thick model is truly made for rifles. The entire length of the tree adjacent to the targets is armored with 1/2" thick AR500. That's on top of the standard heavy angle we use for the tree.

All of our paddles are easily removeable and replaceable. All the trees come with grade 8 hinge bolts. Our new model trees even have 3/8" thick AR500 hinges.

We are not the cheapest tree on the market, but we do offer a competitive price, and in my own biased opinion, the best built dueling tree for the price.
</div></div>

I appreciate you guys chiming in. It's always persuasive when a company interacts on a personal level with it's customers.

Could you guys give me more info on how well the 1/2" plates can hold up to rifles, life expectancy, etc? Also, minimum range, maximum velocities, or some other guidelines to help me know what cartridges/loads to use or not to use? Rather than just going off velocity, is there a ft lbs. of energy cut off?

How much are replacement targets?

Do you have any videos of the tree in action?

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

How well it holds up has a lot to do with what you shoot it with. I haven't had anyone come back and ask for a replacement paddle yet though.

We typically tell guys 308 class rifles @ 100 yards and magnum calibers @ 2-300 depending on velocity. Most guys will tell you to try and limit the velocity @ the target to below 3k-3200fps to increase longevity of the target. The good news is with a dueling tree you are shooting both sides of the target so the paddles tend to hold up pretty well.

Replacement paddles are $39+shipping. We can fit them in a small flat rate box so shipping would only be $5. We can do custom paddles too, just about anything you can think of so long as it doesn't interfere with the spacing.

We do have a video but unfortunately we took it with a cheap-o flip camera and the quality is not good. When we get some time we will go thru all of our videos and shoot some updated ones. We have a nice HD video camera now for the business.

 

[westford86]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How well it holds up has a lot to do with what you shoot it with. I haven't had anyone come back and ask for a replacement paddle yet though.

We typically tell guys 308 class rifles @ 100 yards and magnum calibers @ 2-300 depending on velocity. Most guys will tell you to try and limit the velocity @ the target to below 3k-3200fps to increase longevity of the target. The good news is with a dueling tree you are shooting both sides of the target so the paddles tend to hold up pretty well.

Replacement paddles are $39+shipping. We can fit them in a small flat rate box so shipping would only be $5. We can do custom paddles too, just about anything you can think of so long as it doesn't interfere with the spacing.

We do have a video but unfortunately we took it with a cheap-o flip camera and the quality is not good. When we get some time we will go thru all of our videos and shoot some updated ones. We have a nice HD video camera now for the business. </div></div>

Do you think that 9mm has enough power to swing around a 1/2" paddle?

Also, do you sell anything that can withstand repeated use with a 22-250? I figured if I was getting one target, I might want to pick up another small target...

If I end up getting one of your dueling trees (it was at the top of my list in the OP for a reason), I'll do a little clip for you guys, after all it's what I do for a living...

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

Another thing that has dented my steel's is big heavy lead. My 45-70 dishes out a beating on my 3/8in AR500 steel, and impact velocity is probably only 1600FPS with a 405 gr flatnose. Your Casull might be getting up into that territory, so I would go with the 1/2 inch personally. For what it's worth...

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

if you want to shoot the 22-250 at something, make sure it is light, I will explain.

The heavy AR500 plates, like a 12 inch round in 1/2 inch thick does not move very easy becuase it is heavy, therefore high speed bullets can cause big craters, even holes punched through.

The littler targets that are free swinging and are light with spin or be pushed out of the way. To be honest something like a 25 percent IPSC in 1/2 or something like that. This way the bullet can push it out of the way instead of drive itself into the plate.

I sure hope this make some sort of sense!!!!

Anyway, try that first, I have a 22-250 as well and I have shot tons of steel at 200 yards, It is fine, just knocks the paint off, but I am not using big thick heavy steel either, just my thoughts.


As far as thickness, it all depends what distance but I say 3/8 is probably fine for anything over 300 yards, if you want to shoot close range with a rifle you might want to move to 1/2 inch.

 

[Big Ray Ray]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I should chime in here... We don't post pictures of the mechanism because we don't want it to show up on anyone else's tree.

</div></div>

You need a patent. There are companies out there that make a living from patent infringement suits. It may actually increase your profits. And you get to keep any copy cats from stealing your idea. Whether you post a picture or not; your mechanism is no secret to your customers.

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

We've been in talks with a patent lawyer and are in the process of getting patents for quite a few of our products.

 

[pyplynr]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

I have some of Big Dog Steel's 1/2 targets and I have shot one @ 100 yards with my 22-250 Ackley to see what it would do. Shooting 75gr amax's at 3300fps will leave about a 1mm deep divot in the steel. the lighter grain, faster varmint bullets will make the divots a little deeper and wider.

 

[SRSDriver]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

+1 on Big Dog Steel (osuarchitect).

I've bought the 1/2" plates several times. The only folks who don't like Big Dog Steel are the USPS flat rate box carriers. They tell me that I need to find a different way to ship, but their boxes specifically allow this, so the post office can quit whining!

 

[VKC]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

I have a set of different sized 1/2" thick steel plates. They work well as advertised and are very rugged.

 

[westford86]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

I just placed an order with Big Dog for the 1/2" AR500 dueling tree.

Everyone here seems to be giving them a vote of confidence, so I'm sure I'll be happy. I'll post some pictures when it arrives.

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

We have your tree finished. I would have shipped it out today, but the paint was still a little bit tacky. Should be going out tomorrow morning. I'll forward tracking via Paypal.

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I should chime in here... We don't post pictures of the mechanism because we don't want it to show up on anyone else's tree.

Ace hit the nail on the head, the springs help snap the target into position. They also help to keep it there so it does not "bounce" back over to the original side. You can run the tree without the springs, but after running it with the springs you won't want too. We have lots of our trees out there now and I would put them up againt anyone's tree in existance. Our's are built to take a beating. Our 1/2" thick model is truly made for rifles. The entire length of the tree adjacent to the targets is armored with 1/2" thick AR500. That's on top of the standard heavy angle we use for the tree.

All of our paddles are easily removeable and replaceable. All the trees come with grade 8 hinge bolts. Our new model trees even have 3/8" thick AR500 hinges.

We are not the cheapest tree on the market, but we do offer a competitive price, and in my own biased opinion, the best built dueling tree for the price.

</div></div>

Now this looks fun. Very nice target.

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

That was a very good choice on the dueling tree. That would be tons of fun

 

[westford86]

Re: Educate me on steel targets...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have your tree finished. I would have shipped it out today, but the paint was still a little bit tacky. Should be going out tomorrow morning. I'll forward tracking via Paypal. </div></div>

Just curious if the tree has shipped yet?