RIFLE BUILD RANT

[JelloStorm]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pawprint2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ATF collects 11% tax on rifles, from the MANUFACTURER (IRS CODE 4181) WHEN THE WEAPON IS SOLD. This is the only time a manufacturer pays the tax in the life of the weapon. The Manufacturer also has to have a license to Manufacturer weapons. If bolting on a stock or a scope or painting a weapon made it a "new weapon", then it should(could) be issued a new ser#, but in fact this does not happen, why? Because it is not a newly manufactured weapon, but one that has been "customized". I'm not the one you have the problem with, but rather the IRS, and the BATF. </div></div>

Curse you for knowing more than me!!!!

Totally thought NFA tax fell under that earlier post hehe

 

[my human host]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pawprint2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe the "builder" be it custom or not, is the one that pays the ATF the Tax, and is licensed to build. If you are not paying the TAX as the Fed Law Requires of the builder, you are not the builder/or you are soon to be in prison. You are an assembler or customizer. I may be wrong, the BATF may be able to help out here. </div></div>

This isn't entirely true. As long as you're only working on your personal firearms and not reselling them, you don't need a license of any kind. You're switching builder for manufacturer. Naturally, said firearm still needs to be legal.

 

[pawprint2]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

One easy way to find out who the mfg is (or builder) is to have the BATF declare this weapon to be in violation of the law-the builder or manufacturer (which ever term you use) is going to jail/fined/etc., you'll find out just how fast the customizer declared him/herself: just the customizer!
The original post by poster: MY HUMAN HOST, was regarding building vs. customizing. I have noticed if one bolts a new tube to a savage and bolt the brl/action to a choat "sniper" stock, it isn't custom enough for some to declare the customizer a builder, where as, if the customizer paints skulls, racing stripes (maybe in a camo pattern)over all/ along with a "tactical looking" scope, he has just become a custom builder. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder! Nonetheless, the IRS and BATF charge excise tax on what they consider to be the manufacturer, man I glad we don't have to pay that 11% total value tax every time something is done (new scope, rings etc), it would really jack the prices up!

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

pawprint2, enough with the veiled legal threats and pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

1) If a licensed manufacturer produces less than 50 firearms in a year, they are exempt from the excise tax. Are those firearms not "built" in your mind?

2) Upon building the 50th firearm, the tax is retroactive to the first 49 articles. Do those firearms automatically become "built", according to your definition?

3) Private individuals may produce a firearm for their own use, and no tax is due. Are those firearms never "built", according to your definition?

4) If a customer provides the serialized component ("receiver"), a gunsmith with a Type 1 FFL may produce a complete firearm and not pay an excise tax. Guess those firearms are also never "built" according to you.

Do more reading and less typing.

 

[pawprint2]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pawprint2, enough with the veiled legal threats and pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

1) If a licensed manufacturer produces less than 50 firearms in a year, they are exempt from the excise tax. Are those firearms not "built" in your mind?
ANSWER: These are "built" as they have come from a LICENSED MANUFACTURER. And yes, there are exceptions to the tax rules (go figure), I should have said, "in general, 99+% of the time, the manufacturer of a rifle pays the 11% tax.
2) Upon building the 50th firearm, the tax is retroactive to the first 49 articles. Do those firearms automatically become "built", according to your definition?
ANSWER: They were always "built" as they were produced by a LICENSED MANUFACTURER, as stated, there are exceptions (small loop holes) for the IRS tax.
3) Private individuals may produce a firearm for their own use, and no tax is due. Are those firearms never "built", according to your definition?
ANSWER: The firearms built by individuals for their private use, are custom made, custom built weapons of the highest order. Not in anyway to be confused by "bought a bunch of pieces and bolted them together-custom".

4) If a customer provides the serialized component ("receiver"), a gunsmith with a Type 1 FFL may produce a complete firearm and not pay an excise tax. Guess those firearms are also never "built" according to you.
Answer: The customer providing the serialized component (receiver) to a gunsmith, is providing a firearms to the gunsmith for modification, the receiver is the "firearm", not the other parts, and the firearms-or reciever in this case has already had the 11% tax paid. Remember in this case this is a customer (individual), now in the case of a company mfg receivers to be supplied to another licensed business to be made into complete firearms for sale, only one of them will pay the 11% tax. For the most part, the receiver of any weapon, is almost always(generally) the "firearm", not the stock, trigger, barrel, sights, etc. (not talking about class three triggers or short barrels for rifles etc.)
Do more reading and less typing.
Answer: good advice

</div></div>

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

So, has anyone built anything since this thread started?

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papa Zero Three</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, has anyone built anything since this thread started?

</div></div>

I'm still in the process of building, um, a building:

Hopefully, the OP will weigh in with his judgement as to whether that actually counts as a "build". I'm tingling with anticipation of his judgement, because it is only through the validation of others that I find enjoyment in life.

Assuming that I can be quick enough with installing a new radiator in my dad's car today (not a full "build"), hopefully I'll get to the shop and make some chips from the Bartlein .30 cal MTU barrel that is sitting on my bench.

 

[t185]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papa Zero Three</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, has anyone built anything since this thread started?

</div></div>

I'm still in the process of building, um, a building:

Hopefully, the OP will weigh in with his judgement as to whether that actually counts as a "build". I'm tingling with anticipation of his judgement, because it is only through the validation of others that I find enjoyment in life.

Assuming that I can be quick enough with installing a new radiator in my dad's car today (not a full "build"), hopefully I'll get to the shop and make some chips from the Bartlein .30 cal MTU barrel that is sitting on my bench.
</div></div>

Ummm...

You forgot the basement

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ummm...

You forgot the basement </div></div>

Most garages don't have basements

 

[insight3b]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

It kinda irks me too when a gunsmith takes a 700 action trues it up chambers it beds it etc and calls it a build...came into the shop with a remington serial number...
I take it one further...if you didn't stamp the serial number on the rifle at best all you did is 'customize' it

 

[jasonahull]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

Not only did the guys who swapped stocks and scopes build the rifle.......they made them into
"SNIPER RIFLES"

 

[Raven 6]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It kinda irks me too when a gunsmith takes a 700 action trues it up chambers it beds it etc and calls it a build...came into the shop with a remington serial number...
I take it one further...if you didn't stamp the serial number on the rifle at best all you did is 'customize' it </div></div>
Wish the ATF felt about it same way you do. It would save a lot of "customizers" a lot of money each year.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papa Zero Three</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, has anyone built anything since this thread started?

</div></div>

I'm still in the process of building, um, a building:

Hopefully, the OP will weigh in with his judgement as to whether that actually counts as a "build". I'm tingling with anticipation of his judgement, because it is only through the validation of others that I find enjoyment in life.
</div></div>


Oh hell no! Is that pre-made cement? If you aren't mixing the cement up yourself, you're just pouring it and that's like bolting gun parts together and calling it a build.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papa Zero Three</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh hell no! Is that pre-made cement? If you aren't mixing the cement up yourself, you're just pouring it and that's like bolting gun parts together and calling it a build. </div></div>

Aw, shit! I thought that I was doing an actual "build" with poured walls (those that stack concrete blocks are just "assembling"). I guess I gotta personally go to the quarry next time in order to be a real "builder"...

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papa Zero Three</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh hell no! Is that pre-made cement? If you aren't mixing the cement up yourself, you're just pouring it and that's like bolting gun parts together and calling it a build. </div></div>

Aw, shit! I thought that I was doing an actual "build" with poured walls (those that stack concrete blocks are just "assembling"). I guess I gotta personally go to the quarry next time in order to be a real "builder"... </div></div>

Now you 're catching on

 

[pawprint2]

Re: RIFLE BUILD RANT

What really counts as "A Build" (as in "announcing a build")? Changing out a stock count, or does it require a new scope mount at the same same? Does painting alone count as a "build"? There is more than one valid opinion. Custom parts vs. Custom Made Parts seem to be at the heart of the problem. I see custom parts as those not original to the firearm. Custom Made Parts, are one of a kind, Custom Parts made for the firearm. If you can call XYZ gun maker (no matter how great they are) and purchase their "death dealer" rifle, it is not a custom gun at all, as it is a readily available model, from a small mfg. or not, it is in fact- a model of firearm offered by a mfg. Somewhere along the way, even those that feel a can of Krylon makes for a "custom build", if they are being honest, would agree that there is a difference between a "cutom build" and "customization". Pin stripes are a great customization, for many cars, but it hardly makes that car, a one off, custom build.